Season 3 a Review, and a critique of the Forum
So a game came out yesterday...maybe earlier for some. You may have read something about it lately, heck you may even have posted something about it...I know I did.
I guess you cannot talk about the game without confronting the 3 most glaring issues people have with it. Kenny, Jane and episode length. This is sorta akin to the George Lucas ruined my childhood rants people were posting about Star Wars ep 1-3. However while those movies are so horrible on all levels, this is an unfair statement. Mostly because a fact that people over look is that A New Frontier is exactly what the series needs after the disjointed mess that was Season 2.
So lets dive into the issues my lovelies and then talk about the Season as it stands.
Kenny. The death of Kenny bothers people on a few levels but the primary reasons are this. The model looks like ass. There is no sugar coating this, especially compared to characters in the game his model looks like they came out with a preliminary concept and said DONE. Oh sure it looks like Kenny, and I get that they were going for the fact his wounds had taken a bigger toll on him. It actually is pretty realistic that he would look this way...the wounds he took even if they healed right would cause him long term issues and he may have been suffering without letting on to Clementine...Kenny seems the type. But yeah...that model. His actual death comes as a shock because he usually gets lucky, but going through a windshield like he did and flying 30 feet..well that cannot be good for anyone. And it is not. His lower back is broken, spine is severed. His legs will not move, and walkers are coming. I am guessing Clem is 12 when this happens. There is no way she can drag Kenny off and AJ to avoid the walkers, so Kenny tells her to leave him and he will distract the shitbirds for them. To me, this was a great ending. Kenny went out defending those he loved. That is what a hero does. It hurts watching him die, but it was inevitable. But, but he should have been captured by the New Frontier...something else...why death. The forums have posts like that. Those type of posts are the bargaining point of dealing with loss. I will be ripping the forum up in a minute...however lets talk about...
Jane. Yeah she hung herself after she had confirmed she was pregnant with Luke's child. I get why people are pissed..hell I was none too happy as well, that model looks horrible. Which again is unacceptable when you compare it to the other models in the game...the hell TellTale? As for her suicide...I actually bought it. Here is why it works for me. A study byThe American Psychiatric Association and The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists finds that in a normal civil society with modern comforts 14-23% of pregnant women feel depression to a high level...It is imperative that women feeling this talk to their doctor and get on a proper sleep cycle and talk to someone. Jane had no modern comforts such as a doctor, they had lost half their food to that damn family...her sleep was disrupted constantly. And how do you talk to an 11 year old about the dark thoughts in your head? A million different scenarios would be running through her mind. What if she died during child birth...what if the child had died inside her...how could she bring another child into this world..another AJ or god forbid another Jaimee or Sarah. Suicide is not a rational act nor are the thoughts leading to it...depression kills. Goodnight Jane, you needed another adult to talk to, it was just horrible that Clementine had to find you like that...but it happened and I am ok with it.
Episode Length...an hour does not cut it TellTale...get your shit together! 90 minutes should be the min. for these episodic games.
Now for the Season to date. I am enjoying this immensely. Javier is a cool protagonist and not perfect...he has made mistakes in his life. Was a professional baseball player but was caught gambling and received a lifetime ban. A Rose by a different name. He was not the best son, but has stepped up after the apocalypse. An equal partner with Kate, he tries to keep his family safe. I ship Javi and Kate...I can admit that. Mariana was so sweet...so of course she had to die...at least she never knew what happened to her. Gabe...why parents ever let any of their children live is beyond me some times lol..Hormones and tude. Likable but we shal see....better keep his hands off Clementine(insert general blanket threat of doom if he touches her) Actually I think it could be cute, if handled right.
Clementine...quite the lovable scamp...er bandit? She is an apex predator now...it breaks your hear when she says she prefers to be alone. She has lost so much in her short life....why does she need a vehicle? Where is AJ? I am ENJOYING her a lot in this season. Her goals are unknown at the moment...what happened between her and the New Frontier? She is a rogue with a heart of gold, but has an agenda that keeps you guessing.
The supporting characters have received a bit of love that the Cabin group never did....in 2 hours of gameplay I know that the Doctor had a relationship with Tripp but it did not last, is willing to help people...maybe a bit too friendly (backstabbing bitch?) Tripp is the sheriff of Prescott and at the moment all we know is that he will break skulls but will put things on the line to help those in need. Kate and David had an unhappy marriage...David was in the army and lost friends. The New Frontier may be more than a villain of the week as there does seem to be decent people in it.
Jesus is a ninja!! Honestly I love the guy.
I rode a horse!!!
Character animations and facial movements are amazing....for the most part. So it is noticeable when the engine does something weird. The models are amazing. Clementine is actually beautiful...So what the hell happened to Kenny and Jane and Enid? (rolls up a newspaper "BAD TELLTALE...BAD")
All in all...this season is not suffering from disjointed story telling...though to be fair we are only 2 episodes in. I need more Clementine as a playable character...Javier and Clementine have a natural team feel that it just seems right. I hope that Kate survives as I like her character...I want to learn more about Tripp and Elenor....David..wtf man? What happened to him to make this group.
AJ AJ AJ ...where is he? Hopefully Clem did not eat him.
I give Episode 1 8/10..Amazing intro...locations were fun...hubs are back...coulda been bigger...flashback models need shot.
Episode 2 I give a 7.5 too short...extra time coulda been used to flesh out Prescott some more...but I am happy with the season so far.
The Forums....I give them a 4/10.
I have never see so much butthurt being displayed all at once. Everyone had to expect that Kenny and Jane were going to kick the bucket. I know I did. And the way they chose to do it was..unexpected. And Bad Models...which there was no excuse for TELLTALE. But the way they died has really divided folks. And that is the inherent curse of being a forum player. You intertwine a game with your life, you begin to devise awesome scenarios of how Jane and Kenny are going to be used in the new season. You know full well that they are probably going to die, but it does not stop you from dreaming up shit that was never going to happen. Hell I was hoping for one of them to get bitten when using an outhouse...no such luck. The deaths are fine, just not what you had wanted. Ultimately you feel ownership of these characters because you are here day after day talking about them and defending them. It is ok. Death is a constant in the walking dead, I never assumed that Jane would succumb to prenatal depression...but it happens in the real world quite a bit more than it should. And Kenny not being buckled in? I feel you...but I feel that these are good endings that took us by surprise because of all the scenarios we dreamed up...the writers dreamt differently and no less validly.
Comments
It's our opinion, just like how I thought S2 was great. Deal with it.
I agree with your points on Jane and Kenny for the most part, but people are entitled to their opinions on how they would have liked things handled. Of course, some people here still want Lee to miraculously come back to life.
As far as the length of the episodes and many other criticisms are concerned with season 3, I think they're all incredibly valid.
A great story, ruined by too many flaws. This will be my last telltale game.
I never said your opinions were not valid...but I do think people are letting their ideas of how things should have gone get the better of them.
Too many flaws NorthStars. I am sorry to see you go.
satire?
Nope.
Some want improvement. There's no real problem to that unless they start hurling insults or threats. I haven't seen that happen so keep a level head is my advice.
Mine too.
Maybe that's why I love this season so far is that I had no preconceived ideas of what was to come. I finished season 2, talked about it with a buddy who also plays and moved on to other games.
I tend to take things as they are. I like it or I don't. It's TT's story I'm just lucky enough to experience it.
I agree for the most part. While I feel the way they handled S2s endings was poor, but that sorta ties in with the main thing that's been off-putting to me: Clem as a player character, and how she's been handled overall. Which I can understand, since these episodes are by far some of the shortest in the series. I don't mind the introduction of a new protagonist, if it's done right. But as I've said before, the combination of all these issues make Javier feel less like he's being integrated into the story, and more like he's outright replacing everything that's happened with his experience alone. The length of the episodes means they're cramming all of this story into one package, and this really doesn't leave room for anything but Javier.
My biggest problem with the Kenny and Jane parts (except their design) is how quick they are over. I would've liked to dedicate almost an entire episode to a flashback dealing with our season 2 endings (which I almost thought at first, seeing how episode one was "too big").
Sure it will.
I personally didn't care that the episodes were 70 mins long. I also agree with your rating of the forums.
dp
Really. Im done with video games anyways, this has been the only video game I've been playing other than dying light occasionally, if it continues like this I'll sure as hell stop playing it, but either way after this season I have gotten bored of video games, Im stopping them all together really, wont be any difficult quitting a game I dont like in compare to having to quit games all together.
Watched the play through of Jacksepticeye and The Pewds...both are enjoying the season immensely and digging Javi and Clem...Jacksepticeye...what a name for a channel.
What S2 ending did Jack go with?
I personally really like season 3, MUCH more than season 2. Honestly, this has restored a lot of my faith in telltale.
I've seen a few insults but not much
How is pewdss play through? Usually he keeps the screaming and anooying noise to a minimum
Soothing nostalgia (it wasn't that long ago, maybe the wrong word to use) that reminds me of his playthroughs of the previous seasons, which is what introduced me to Telltale in the first place. He used the story generator and decided to stay in Wellington, and he likes it a lot so far (he's finished episode 1).
Cool hist
Twd vids are the only ones I can stand tbh
Take a break, then come back to gaming. But don't think that just because you don't play everything your a relic or something. Gaming is a hobby. It's as valid as any other. But it needs to be just that. Fill your life with life. My game backlog dates to atleast1999. Good games don't die. They will be waiting for you. I Just finished 100% FF12. A game I bought new at Walmart in '06. I lived in between and don't regret not getting 100 in before now. The week I bought it me and my ex went on our first date. My cousin came home from Iraq alive with all intac after 4yrs in the Core. No damn way would I choose any game over those memories. You do you. The games will wait they will.
He still loves Clementine...and loved the hell out of episode 1.
Jane...he was crushed when she hung herself.
Yeah I would have loved for them to be longer too...but I will take what I can get.
Wasn't Pewdiepie going to delete his channel, what the hell happened to that?
I agree but realism doesn't always equal a good story.
They should have had Jane reveal she is pregnant with Luke Jr at the end of her flashback and then another where she is carrying a baby whilst Clem carries AJ and they meet Ava.
Alternatively have Clementine in Wellington with AJ and have the city razed by A New Frontier and later on meet Ava alone.
Also if Clem is alone and loses that finger, she should meet Ava alone again, just missing that finger.
As well as this, have Kenny and Clementine attacked with the whole car crash thing but don't cause Kenny to die, just have them attacked and forced to run off, then also meeting Ava once again later.
Then have them off-screen as determinant characters. That's literally all you needed, and could also have Luke Jr too.
While I disagree with what you said about Jane and still find it out of character, that was a very reasonable, well researched, and logical argument that you made, I will give you props for that. And for the most part, I do agree with you. This season, while disappointing in some regards (Clem being a shoehorned playable character, episode lengths, lack of focus on her story), there is so much that this season is doing fantastic with (despite Kenny/Jane/Edith, the improved graphics and models are great, Javier is shaping to be one of Telltale's best PC's, the story has a good sense of direction, characters are likable).
Yeah what happened with out endings was awful, but it feels like people are letting it blind them from everything that's been great so far about the season. I'm not necessarily defending Telltale for some of their actions or decision, but I do think this game is getting a lot of unnecessary hate, especially here on the forums. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but people need to be reasonable and mature about it. Criticizing and discussing what you liked and didn't like is fine, but when it delves into personal attacks on the writers and the people who worked on it, or just simply throwing out "I hate it and I'm never buying a Telltale game again," then it makes you look like a baby.
Its not that all the good games are dying, Im just not interested in gaming like I used to be, but I get it, games have never been a big part of my life.
It was a joke...he and Jacksepticeye are frenemies it seems...so he made a Jacksepticeye 2 channel...and that was the one he deleted.
First off...thank you for the props...and while I do defend the endings...I do feel that they could have been longer. As for Javier...he is important to TWD...it cannot just be Clementine...one character that everyone loves is not enough to hold a franchise like TWD. If I were TellTale...I would put Clementine on a season hiatus to build up a couple of more strong characters. I would also if I were them...go back to long episodes...charge more if you need to...just make it worth our time and money. S3 is shaping up well...but...do they have a plan for whats next in the series...this takes place after All out War in the comics...Will the new seasons they make include anything about the Whisperers? Or are they going to change locations and maybe we see Clem and Javi head west..or North? Hopefully someone at TellTale is sitting down with Skybound and figuring this stuff out.
But for right now..I am just enjoying this season.
Oh, he did. He did delete his channel.
His second channel that he doesn't even use.
You know, that's interesting, especially in the case of Pewdiepie
He really didn't like the way Michonne panned out, and part of me was expecting a similar reaction to S3. So color me surprised that he actually enjoyed it.
I think his main problem was the lack of Clem...I personally hold Michonne as an amazing example of TellTale actually telling a damn story and not second guessing themselves.
Man, seeing you defending S3 reminds me of how I try to defend S2. From one to another, I can feel your pain. This forum has gotten under my skin on occasion for the same reasons. Sometimes it feels like an uphill battle, sticking up for something you like, when everyone else doesn't really seem to.
I'll say this. I have my problems with the way S3 has been handled. And I'm feeling conflicted at best. Part of me is pissed. Part of me even feels a bit betrayed. I won't lie about that. But I can still see potential shining through the cracks.
I don't hate S3, but I'm not particularly liking it too heavily at the moment, either. But I'm trying to stay as positive as I can about all of it. Truth be told, I think if I didn't watch the Kenny/Jane endings, I probably would've been a lot happier with how things turned out. I'm more or less fine with how the Wellington ending turned out. It was over a bit too fast, but hey, at least I didn't have to put up with another Nick/Sarah-tier death. And I have one of the two possible endings where Kenny could still be alive out there somewhere, so I can find some solace in that. Unless we run into him again in episode 4, and he promptly gets hit by an out-of-control bus that's on fire.
Anyways, I'm enjoying the present day story, for the most part. Some things are going by a bit fast, especially due to episode length, but beyond that, it's been a breath of fresh air. I'm taking a liking to Javier and his family. Shit, I'm even taking a liking to Gabe. And of course, my boy Tripp, undoubtedly my favorite new character so far. Guy could practically carry this season on his shoulders and I'd be totally fine with it.
Also, Max, who is probably the most underrated character of this season so far. I appreciate an antagonist that has some depth and dimension, and so far, Max is demonstrating a good deal of that. An asshole for sure, but an asshole that has a code, and some semblance of humanity and compassion. I hope David just doesn't go crazy and kill him in episode 3 because of Mari or something. David could totally shoot Badger in the face, though. Fuck that guy.
At the moment, all I'm hoping for are A) longer episodes for the remainder of the season; at least 90 minutes, and B) more prevalent flashback sequences with Clementine. I'm fine if we don't get to play Clem in the present, but if that's the direction they'll take, they should at least compensate by having more flashback sequences. The episode 2 flashback is a step in the right direction. If they have more flashbacks like that, which last longer than 5 minutes, I'd say they're golden. Actually, if they did a few more flashbacks that featured Kenny and Jane, I might even be able to forgive them for those deaths. It'd suck showing us the death first and then getting to spend 'quality time' with them, but it'd help soften the impact for some people, I'm sure of it. It's the best option they got, besides retconning the deaths and saying they were just bad dreams and being all like "HAH, unreliable narrator trope! Take that, TWD fans!" Though if they did this, they might wanna go back and patch in some better looking models for Kenny and Jane...
Oh, also, this is more of a minor grievance on my part, but more original music tracks. There was so much reused stuff in the first episodes, it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, they fit... but I'd like to see more unique soundtracks instead of being like "oh hey, I recognize that trac--oh wait, intense shit's happening"
I was a bit outspoken the first few days, but I'm starting to mellow out a little bit now, getting over the knee-jerk reaction and whatnot. I think this season can still be salvaged if the right steps are taken. I just hope Telltale knows that, too.
Also, I want to take one quick moment to address a few smaller thoughts on my mind:
All the people roasting Telltale. I don't think I agree with everyone saying stuff like "S3 is like bad fan fiction". I can understand the reaction, I truly can, but I don't think that's the way to go about it. I think they do deserve some shade thrown at them in the way they handled Kenny/Jane's deaths. They need to understand that this just isn't the way to 'take care' of determinant characters. They need to understand that people are starting to see through their methods. And if people need to get a bit harsh in order to them to get the message, then so be it. I've been hesitant about badmouthing them in the past, and I've tried to dissuade people from taking it too far... but this is the one time I feel it's somewhat justified. But don't take this as me saying "go rip Telltale a new asshole". I'm saying that saying stuff like "Kenny/Jane's death was absolute bullshit" is understandable. Saying shit like "Someone take these writers out back and shoot them" is not.
The actual deaths of Kenny/Jane. I don't necessarily think the deaths themselves are bad. As in, the manner of death. A car crash could be a tragic way for someone like Kenny to go... under the right circumstances. It needs more than a 5 minute flashback to reach that potential. Same with Jane. Katjaa's suicide was a tragic moment in the eyes of many people, and part of that is due to a simple fact-- we had time to get to know Kat, and we got to see her armor start to crack. We saw the subtle signs of her giving up that made the lead-up to her suicide feel natural. It was still shocking and not fully expected, but they gave us enough pieces of the puzzle to look back at her behavior and be like "Yeah, I can see why she did this..." Only problem is that Jane doesn't have any of that. And she can't have any of that in the course of five measly minutes. In the world of storytelling, suicide is a subject that requires nuance to be pulled off. If it lacks nuance, it just feels hollow at best, or an ass-pull at worst. You bring up some good points-- there are some signs and subtleties that suggest that Jane isn't all there. Things like her talking about the 'ghosts' of Howe's suggests that her mental state is... deteriorating, for lack of a better term. But it simply doesn't feel like a natural conclusion to her character over the course of 5 minutes, even in spite of those signs.
Sorry for bombarding you with edits, but honestly, just being able to write this out is helping me come to terms with some of my own problems with S3. It's kind of therapeutic, actually.
Can you add a spoiler tag?
Also, the issue is not just that Kenny/Jane died, but the way it was handled. It felt like most of the deaths in Season Two-not legit progressions of things, but just TTG tossing out characters because they didn't know what else to do with them or because they were determinate.
I think the bigger joke was that he was able to get a million subscribers on his second channel by literally doing fucking nothing. He got one of those youtube play buttons for just creating a channel and telling people to subscribe to it.
It is ok...we are going to get through this, I am pumped for episode 3.