Should Trans be allowed to compete in the sport of their chosen gender?

13

Comments

  • In this very specific circumstance I'd say its not fair. If I understand correctly. She started in men's UFC as a man. Was fairly competitive there. Decides to change into a woman and compete in UFC's womens division. Whatever science says won't matter in this case. Many of the women will have seen her fight as a man. Many will say they welcome her. But some will only see a bully who can't be called a cheat because of political views. She scares them on a instinctive level. The fight game is 99% mental 1% physical. And that is the "unfair advantage"she'll have against any woman who saw her fight as a man. UFC has no choice but to let her compete,but ultimately,this could be very bad for UFC. Women are gonna feel like they can't hold back against her. Somebody's gonna get hurt badly and not necessarily who ppl would think.

  • Cope49Cope49 Banned
    edited February 2017

    My god dude .Still ragging on old shit.Get a life
    And our society is beyond fake.

    I find it quite ironic that you're calling society "fake" when you were the one catfishing people by using fake pictures on here. I think we all know who the real fake person is here.

  • Great news, we look forward to seeing you there!

    Cope49 posted: »

    I will . Already signed up .

  • You're telling me to get a life when clearly you're the one who doesn't have one because you had to pretend to be a different person.

    Real hypocritical don't you think?

    And yeah our society is fake but not for those reasons.

    Cope49 posted: »

    My god dude .Still ragging on old shit.Get a life And our society is beyond fake.

  • We are very excited to see her.

    Great news, we look forward to seeing you there!

  • To be fair, you do not need to rely on science if you can justify a belief using philosophical reasoning—though it's clear @Cope49 doesn't do either.

    I-am-BUMP posted: »

    I wasn't saying Cope49 was necessarily using religion to justify their beliefs, just that the principles behind it are the same as they disp

  • Hope Im not

    You are a person too, North.

  • For the 10th time .Noone was pretending to be anyone .
    Which you and your piggy-backers fail to comprehend . But regardless of what I tell you , you're gonna hold on to that till your dying day .
    If you feel you finally have something on me you're wrong .

    enter image description here

    You're telling me to get a life when clearly you're the one who doesn't have one because you had to pretend to be a different person. Real hypocritical don't you think? And yeah our society is fake but not for those reasons.

  • Spelling bees yes.hand to hand fighting . not so fair.

  • Why did you put Joe Rogan in the OP? wtf.

    OT: I don't see much problem with this.

  • Well she's not hating trans people. She's not suggesting we lock them up, or put them into conversion therapy, she's not saying they're evil, she's not denouncing them. She's just not respecting the social norm of calling them their preferred name.

    Let's keep hate and disagreement separate, please.

    fancies posted: »

    So? Don't hate something if you don't know something.

  • Yes, and that's discrimination. Discrimination is hate.

    This isn't a matter of a debate on the best clothing brand. This is human rights.

    Come on, is it really that difficult to see her hatred?

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    Well she's not hating trans people. She's not suggesting we lock them up, or put them into conversion therapy, she's not saying they're evil

  • edited February 2017

    Please, let's keep religion out of here. That's a belief that you don't share with everyone, and laws should not be made on the basis of religion.

    Religion is not a valid argument.

    Kenny/Lee posted: »

    No. No amount of surgery, or whatever, is gonna make a person into something that God and nature just never meant them to be. Men should be men, and women should be women.

  • So we ban intimidating people? Is that what you're saying? If so, RIP UFC.

    In this very specific circumstance I'd say its not fair. If I understand correctly. She started in men's UFC as a man. Was fairly comp

  • Hate is hate. Hate is looking at someone and finding them somehow deplorable. Somehow horrid. She's just saying that she disagrees with their point of view.

    Pronouns are not rights. Freedom of speech is. I agree that trans women should be called she, and etc., but I also agree that people like Cope should be allowed to disagree without being berated, even if they are wrong.

    As for her hatred, it's difficult to see what isn't there.

    fancies posted: »

    Yes, and that's discrimination. Discrimination is hate. This isn't a matter of a debate on the best clothing brand. This is human rights. Come on, is it really that difficult to see her hatred?

  • As far as I know that's not true. So long as your belief is applicable to what exists in reality you cannot use reasoning to justify believing in it. Don't get me wrong, philosophy has importance in science, especially in term of determining what is "true" (e.g. logical fallacies), but philosophy cannot be used to determine anything about reality.

    To be fair, you do not need to rely on science if you can justify a belief using philosophical reasoning—though it's clear @Cope49 doesn't do either.

  • Why under 25? Most men have had most of their growth by 18, younger even. You can't just pick arbitrary numbers.
    I'm an out-of-shape 23 year old manlet and I could still beat the vast vast majority of woman in strength, stamina, speed etc.
    As I said in another post, transmen don't matter because they'll be disadvantaged competing against natural men, not advantaged.

  • If using someone else's picture as your own isn't pretending to be someone else then I think you're failing to comprehend things.

    Cope49 posted: »

    For the 10th time .Noone was pretending to be anyone . Which you and your piggy-backers fail to comprehend . But regardless of what I tell

  • Did I say anything about pronouns?

    Anyway, let's see....

    hate (noun): intense or passionate dislike.
    Aren't we glad to have google search?

    Look, I can't change your views. I can only encourage you to support trans people and human rights.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    Hate is hate. Hate is looking at someone and finding them somehow deplorable. Somehow horrid. She's just saying that she disagrees with thei

  • Child abuse? As a child who underwent hormone therapy, I can absolutely dismiss that statement.

    Bogglefuzz posted: »

    Even the top 5% of female military trainees can't compete with 95% of male trainees for strength, endurance, reactions, body weight etc. Le

  • I'm an out-of-shape 23 year old manlet and I could still beat the vast vast majority of woman in strength, stamina, speed etc.

    Ahh, let's not get too pretentious here, should we?

    Bogglefuzz posted: »

    Why under 25? Most men have had most of their growth by 18, younger even. You can't just pick arbitrary numbers. I'm an out-of-shape 23 yea

  • It's not being pretentious in the slightest, this is how it is for men. If you think otherwise then you simply don't have enough experience with both genders.

    fancies posted: »

    I'm an out-of-shape 23 year old manlet and I could still beat the vast vast majority of woman in strength, stamina, speed etc. Ahh, let's not get too pretentious here, should we?

  • Yes, child abuse. Children are not the right age to make the decision and parents have no right to make it for them, nor do other adults. That sort of decision should only be made by the person, when they're an adult. I wouldn't even let a child get a tattoo in most cases, never mind 'change' their gender.
    People are reluctant to see themselves as abused. As an example, circumcised men and women often say, "well I've got no issue with it", and then they continue the practice with their own kids whilst justifying it to themselves, "at least they won't have as much smegma now!" or some other crap. It's actually a well studied phenomenon, people's memories and feelings about memories can change to suit the ideas/beliefs of those around them. I can't remember the exact name of this specific study (think its was from the 1990s), but when they checked in on male victims of sexual abuse (from women) in adulthood, only 25% of them then considered themselves to have been raped, because society influences them into thinking women can't rape and men must not be victimised and their memories change to fit this world view.
    Many people are reluctant to convict those that abused them because that would mean admitting to themselves and others that they were abused, it's a common problem. Nobody wants to think that their life has been ruined without their consent, they'd much rather convince themselves that that is what they wanted or that it's fine. That's just how humans are.

    fancies posted: »

    Child abuse? As a child who underwent hormone therapy, I can absolutely dismiss that statement.

  • Oh trust me, I have experience. xo

    Bogglefuzz posted: »

    It's not being pretentious in the slightest, this is how it is for men. If you think otherwise then you simply don't have enough experience with both genders.

  • You have no right to say it was child abuse. My parents were doing what was right for me. You're saying transgender people need to wait until they're 18 to live their life?

    And besides, I was going to need to go through hormone therapy at some point, best before puberty. Otherwise I couldn't use the bathroom, fill out which gender to choose on a form, etc. You'd take away my basic rights if people like you made the rules.

    (and if you're not aware, i was born intersex)

    Bogglefuzz posted: »

    Yes, child abuse. Children are not the right age to make the decision and parents have no right to make it for them, nor do other adults. Th

  • I said that "you appear to be ignorant that sex and gender is not the same," and you counter-argued, which leads me to believe that you believe sex and gender are the same. If this is the case, how would you explain the existence of these two terms if they supposedly convey the same meaning? Are they synonyms?

    Megaodg33 posted: »

    Gender is not a social construct. It's just not. There are only two genders as there are only two sexes.

  • Religion should be held to scrutiny just as any other belief would, but I cannot find a way to do this without feeling bad that I could've upset the other person.

    fancies posted: »

    Please, let's keep religion out of here. That's a belief that you don't share with everyone, and laws should not be made on the basis of religion. Religion is not a valid argument.

  • This made me laugh.

    Rancharoo posted: »

    Spelling bees yes.hand to hand fighting . not so fair.

  • Her strong text game is strong, though.

    If using someone else's picture as your own isn't pretending to be someone else then I think you're failing to comprehend things.

  • edited February 2017

    You didn't actually say anything about pronouns. Which is weird, because that's what Cope was talking about in the first place.

    Yeah, that's basically what I said. My point stands.

    I do support trans people and trans rights. I just don't support bashing people for not understanding.

    fancies posted: »

    Did I say anything about pronouns? Anyway, let's see.... hate (noun): intense or passionate dislike. Aren't we glad to have google search? Look, I can't change your views. I can only encourage you to support trans people and human rights.

  • The 1st Amendment sates:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

    So according to the Constitution of the United States of America, I'm guaranteed; as are all Americans, the right to express my faith, as well as the right to free speech, wherever and whenever I please.

    I don't see anything disrespectful in what I said. If my viewpoint is different than yours, that's just what it is. It doesn't make it good or bad, simple fact is that not everyone is gonna agree on the same things, and they're each going to have their reasons for doing so.

    fancies posted: »

    Please, let's keep religion out of here. That's a belief that you don't share with everyone, and laws should not be made on the basis of religion. Religion is not a valid argument.

  • Fuckin' A Right!

    NorthStars posted: »

    People are never satisfied no matter how much you give them.

  • I know, but you're using RELIGION to back up your stance in a LOGICAL argument. I'm simply pointing out that your argument is illogical and invalid, and doesn't add to the thread at all. This thread is, in a nutshell, a logical debate on whether transgenders should be allowed to compete in their transitioned gender's sport, not a place where we discuss what we can and can't do because some archaic and outdated book said to.

    Also, I'm just so curious as to why you care about how other people express themselves. Does it really affect you?

    Kenny/Lee posted: »

    The 1st Amendment sates: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; o

  • edited February 2017

    Doesn't really affect me - despite not agreeing -. I say let them do what they want lawl

  • If you go through puberty as a male you will have a much denser and heavier bone structure, no amount of hormonal therapy is going to change that.

    Flog61 posted: »

    What you're saying doesn't have scientific basis. Hormones are the main influencer of things like muscle strength for genders and to compete

  • Hey--someone who finally acknowledges that it doesn't affect them!

    pr0dz posted: »

    Doesn't really affect me - despite not agreeing -. I say let them do what they want lawl

  • Sadly, its the lawsuit happy world we live in. By its very nature UFC is violently extreme. Fear is not something they would want to deal with. Just look to what happened the last few years with Miss Ronda Rouse. She keeps loseing in the brutal ways she has and her career is over. Why? because no one wants to watch her die in the octigon. As is the norm with this sort of thing. UFC has found itself in a bit of a bind here. I'm not saying ban her. But it seems to be a flip it around situation. If she had the surgery but not the treatments would she then be allowed to compete. with the men? No because that could look accidentally like a hate crime. (out of context that is) That said were we talking Bruce Jenner.....I doubt any of the UFC's women would object...(aka your probably right) rant over.

    fancies posted: »

    So we ban intimidating people? Is that what you're saying? If so, RIP UFC.

  • I see it's been bothering you.

    Cope49 posted: »

    Maybe. But it doesn't make it any less true.

  • edited February 2017

    There's more to Gender Dysphoria than just a simple Disorder, it's more so a birth defect and allot of the reasoning behind gender identity 'issues' lies within biology, here are some links to scientific studies on Trans-sexuality:

    BBC News
    Oxford Academic
    Oxford Academic #2
    NCBI
    NeuroImage PDF

    There's allot more out there, feel free to continue your research before making your final verdict.

    Also, where and from how many scientific studies have you got your percentages for those suicide rates and would you care to give us some insight on the causes found by those scientific studies? It's interesting that your hypothesis is that suicide due to their mental instability and you don't believe it's the more likely factor of Trans and Homophobia - as even today people are beaten to death for their uncontrolled affections towards the same gender or present any other factors in general.

    Megaodg33 posted: »

    I'd rather you do your research before blurting out what you think I do do my research before posting. Gender Dysphoria: Synonym

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