Well, it's true. With the major exceptions of Michelle(a starter villain used to set the tone of the Season that still got a lot more thought put into her than they had to), "Ralph"(who I'll address under Mike), Pete(who dies before and separate from the derails), Walter(a idealistic oneshot whose connections to Kenny and Nick goes forgotten aside from being killed by Carver), Sarita(who was apparently a decomposite character of Sarah and a shameless satellite character for Kenny to loosely hang on his arm before her death triggers his sanity slippage), and Natasha(who has relatively few lines that are hard to hear and is really just a walking motivation for Arvo to do anything), nearly all of the characters start off with hints of deeper characterization and hidden depths, but it's mostly untapped due to the focus of Kenny:
Clementine-Had guilt over the fact that people tend to die because of her, can claim she killed Lee, is initially motivated to find Christa, and is somewhat implied to be suffering from very mild depression but this kinda falls by the wayside as the game progresses before getting brief callbacks in No Going Back.
Luke-Has this sense of pragmatism and sneakiness about him that does somewhat recurs throughout the story, but is somewhat muddled due to his Hero Complex, his rivalry with the comparatively byronic asshole Kenny, and often being perceived as a bland nice guy. On top of that, his sibling-like relationship with Clementine is somewhat downplayed in favor of shilling Jane in that role instead, his implied history as a partner of Carver is never really elaborated on and the two only get one (admittedly great) scene together that gets hijacked by Kenny, and just to further rub salt in the wound, his role in the intentionally hyped up throwdown with Kenny was also given to Jane, making his character derailment(and in some people's view, his entire character) pointless.
Nick-Probably one of the most wasted characters, Nick got a disproprotionate amount of development, backstory, and nuance put into him despite being Luke's sidekick. The first two episodes had his character at the forefront of a few subplots that exposed his traumatic paranoia about bite victims, his guilty struggles to live up to his family and peer's expectations of him, and his fatalistic outlook on the world. After losing all of his people, his "aggro" overreactions causes him to kill the partner of Walter, who determinately saves him if Clementine vouches for him and Nick owns up to it. Unfortunately, he stops being relevant after A House Divided, either becoming a statistic on the list of fallen Cabin Group members reported to Reggie or just a lazy carryover that just lays around doing nothing noteworthy, mostly talks about/to Luke and Kenny, and is mortally wounded offscreen(which I heard might have to do with his voice actor being unavailable) before turning up as a walker in Amid the Ruins. He is then used in Jane's lessons by being put down in a needlessly graphic fashion so she can be there to comfort Clementine before she reveals the meat of her character and some of her true colors.
Rebecca-There were a number of things suggesting that she on some level willingly slept with Carver and was burdened with guilt over that helped lead to her vindictiveness regarding him that influenced her initially treatment of Clementine, but you know about the 180 and the strong implication that Carver raped her. Some people also note that she seemed afraid of Alvin learning the truth about AJ because "he'll kill me," but I personally think that might just be an exaggeration of him being pissed.
Alvin-The exact details regarding George are relatively vague aside from the inferrable conclusion that he and Carver were friends once, which likely led to Rebecca's job, the affair, and eventually the escape, with the only information we get about that situation being the fact that they knew he had died and Bonnie saying that his death was probably unintentional, implying he got in the way during the escape on Carver's behalf and Alvin struck him down in the process of escaping. There was also the matter of him learning about Carver being the father of AJ, which is...confusing to be honest, since he seemed to get jarringly abrasive when Carver was the topic to begin with, so I don't know what the fuck was going on there. And he originally was meant to go fishing alongside Clementine and probably Luke at the end of All that Remains before the walkers showed up, but that was changed half-way through development so that he and Luke went out looking for her and the Randalls when they didn't come back; this was likely meant to establish him as being somewhat relaxed at times since fishing requires patience.
Carlos-We talked about this in another thread, but it's very noticeable that Carlos was originally meant to be a major character but many of his intended scenes were given to Kenny in later episodes: he is the one most commonly portrayed as the leader of the group before Luke and especially Kenny take over, everyone stands back(and Nick and Rebecca shut the fuck up) when he comes out, when he comes to examine Clementine, his dialogue and behavior varies based on Clementine's own(he can even smile at her!), explains the current situation to Clementine, and he is often seen giving orders and handling things when Luke isn't doing so. His history and interactions regarding Carver suggests that the two once respected each other on some level but things fell apart due to Carver's increasingly oppression, Carlos following Luke in getting Rebecca away from him, and a potential threat to Sarah's well-being and/or source of her PTSD and his overprotective extremism regarding her; the fact that they have noticeably different approaches to parenting, are initially portrayed as very smart and apparently dangerous men, are the leaders of their respective groups, and even have similar designs and expressions make it somewhat likely that Carver was supposed to be his Evil Counterpart rather than Kenny's. And finally, he is the first character to confide in Clementine about his motivations, even asking her to stay away from Sarah, but warms up to her as the story goes on, to the point of being concerned for her safety on the bridge, being quick to trust her to handle the windmill situation, covering her when she runs out of ammo, and approving of her friendship with Sarah, due to a combination of desperate times and his own parental/medicinal instincts; this tends to be overlooked or ignored by most people due to his limited screentime in later episodes or simply focusing more on his negative/ludacris aspects.
Sarah-Definitely one of the most consistent characters thanks to her distinct passivity, demographic, and psychosis among the other characters, she was implied to have quite a few hidden depths regarding her implied nature as a secret keeper(with mixed results), hints at sneaky and even rebellious traits of her own, her desire to be more involved in the group and/or become a true survivor, her seemingly odd perception of morality, and her opinions on Carlos's actions, methods, and treatment of her. It's also somewhat inferrable that her PTSD, tendency to become depressed or worked up when bad things happen happen regarding people she cares about, and overreactions to violence may have been caused by Carver killing her mom. While most of it is justified by events and somewhat present if you squint and/or reach hard enough, most of this goes unresolved along with her character arc as a whole, as she gets demonized and abandoned due to her killer and replacement Jane. It's also worth noting that her determinant friendship with Clementine, being one of the characters with the most meaningful choices, and having numerous influence in the artwork, achievements, and soundtrack mark her as being important and makes her sudden removal from the story all the more jarring.
Carver-The main villain of the Season 2(even if the later half was mostly in spirit), he was the opposing end of the Grey vs. Gray feud between him and the Cabin Group, having a personal connection to with everyone except Sarah(who he simply uses as a potential bargaining chip to Carlos, to further enforce his propaganda, and stroke his ego), Nick(who he doesn't even mention directly), and Pete(who he implies doesn't actually trust Clementine). It's inferrable that he was friends with Alvin and possibly Carlos once, used his connections to give Rebecca a job, and may've had Luke as a partner, but his increasingly tough procedures, clashing ideologies with Luke, potential widowing of Carlos, and adultery with his PA announcer caused them to defect and escape, killing his friend George and leaving a turncoat member of his inner circle behind in their wake. Thus, he was presented as an intelligent, charismatic, and dangerous man who had several of his people turn on him and take his doctor, baby mama, and future heir away from him and would do anything to get them--and his family--back. Of course, he was reduced to (what he truly was on the inside, in my first impression of AHD) being an egotistical, psychopathic, Darwinist tyrant who smugly enforces his will by abusing and corrupting any one he comes across for any petty reason he can find. His respect for Clementine(or "Carley," who he warned not to trust the Cabin Group) was retained, but was reduced to a comical declaration of them being kindred spirits after he killed guy over some berries.
Troy-a decomposite character/rejected model of Carver, he was clearly just there to be someone to be an asshole minion until his likely death/defeat at Clementine's hands and yet still had a few select hints of having standards and even a softer side but gets offed to further hype Jane up as being hardcore.
Taavia-I know I'm cheating here, but she's really just there for you to go "Oh shit, she was working for Carver the whole tiem!" at the beginning of the episode and that's it. There's barely anything going on with her outside of being an inner circle member that's not Bonnie or Troy, making her seeming shift in characterization somewhat pointless no matter how you look at it
Bonnie-Kinda acceptable to a point in my opinion, but there's the concern you previously about her feelings about Carver and the people of Howe's going unaddressed in favor of focusing on her connection with Clementine and a Professional Supporting Character alongside Mike.
Mike-Was originally intended to have been "Ralph" of the North Carolina Bandits Scavengers, scarred due to friendly fire by Victor and captured by Carver after seeing his group shot up. This was likely changed to lessen the episode length and , and so he's just a leftover model from a dummied subplot that just acts as THE Professsional Supporting Character, most notably as Kenny's headbutting buddy, friendly protector to the children/youth, and Bonnie's counterpart before finally getting a proper role in No Going Back as the lead defector alongside Arvo and determinately Bonnie.
Jane-Probably the most egregious character in entire Season/Series, Jane is almost completely walking-talking proof that the writers were making things up as they went along, for worse or better. Introduced as a hardcore, stoic badass who had been captured by Carver, she did simultaneously very much(by helping the group devise the escape plan before killing her secret fling on the inside Troy) and very little (by not saying much, keeping to herself, and being seen as weird by even the nicer characters for most of the episode), generally making you wonder who she was the entire time--in essence, a gimmick character of the Jailbreak genre. Seeing how people reacted to her presence during In Harm's Way, Jane had much of her characterization and dialogue tweaked from a hardass who could barely tolerate stupidity and annoyances to an Anti-hero with a tragic backstory who dominated much of the final two episodes by more or less taking over Luke, Sarah, and to a certain extent Carver's roles in addition to being Clementine's mentor(which was her original purpose). It is in this episode that she gets the bulk of her characterization: formally an edgy(and stupid) juvenile delinquent who palled around with her sister when she wasn't making mischief, Jane is a coldly pragmatic and antisocial expert survivalist who shares Carver's Darwinistic philosophy and has a prejudice against those she deems "liabilities," both being the products of abandoning her lethargic sister after weeks of carrying her across the countries; while definitely a dark contrast to everything the Howe's Ski Cabin Group believes in, it's implied that she is actively deluded herself to avoid thinking about what she did, hiding the fact she is actually very lonely, suffering from occasional bouts of guilt and depression, and might even be a high-functioning brand of insane, causing her engage in cold-blooded, reckless, contradictory, and even downright self-destructive behavior on a whim. The bulk of this comes to a head after she spends time with Clementine, advocates leaving Sarah to the walkers(who she constantly sees as Jaime), decides to rob and threaten Arvo, and has a one-afternoon-stand with Luke, resulting in her running away after her actions kills Sarah, coincides with Luke losing his faith in himself as a hero before indulging himself and becoming noticeably irritable towards Kenny, and eventually gets the group ambushed by a group of pissed off Russians, setting the stage for the group to fall apart. And then No Going Back happened, in which Jane returns from her supposed exile for killing Sarah out of fucking nowhere to stab Arvo's remaining group member Vitali in the back and decides she wants to be a part of the group now. What's so jarring about this is that it rivals Rebecca in terms of shifting characterization: formerly self-righteous, bad with conversation, lacking in empathy, psychologically burdened by guilt for killing Jaime and Sarah, and a Darwinist survivalist, Jane is now just another survivor who mediates arguments, somehow gets Kenny to shut up and listen, emphathizes with Arvo to the point of outright raising her voice in outrage over him getting beat to a pulp, casually brings up Jaime in passing like it's no biggie, never owns up to or even brings up the Sarah Situation, and curls up around the campfire like a fucking tween. ...I mean, holy shit--IS THIS EVEN THE SAME CHARACTER?! Don't get me wrong, character development is good and she's definitely faaar more tolerable if you just watch this episode as a stand alone, but you'd might as well replace her with Lilly or Molly, or better yet, Luke or even Sarah and it'd make about as much sense. The only consistency between episodes is her interest in Clementine, the fact that she's Bear-with-wide-canyon, her 'strong independent woman' archetype, and her conspiracy theories(which is actually one of the most interesting and best handled hints at development, if I'm being honest).
Arvo-See the posts above cause I'm lazy :P. Also, his beef with Jane is mostly ignored and is apparently resolved in the background of the roadside scene.
PS. It just occured to me I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not
Yeah that is possible. Rebecca's initial reaction to the missing arm was to assume that Carver did it. If Reggie is lying that would really take some commitment and brainwashing.
Well, he did get his arm cut off. Now, I know he said they cut it off because he had been bitten, but for all we know, he could have just li… moreed in fear of Carver and that in actual fact, his arm was chopped due to the role he played in the Cabin Group's escape.
What was life like at Howes if you weren't stuck in the yard?
Apparently, a lot of work, since Shel and Becca are the only citizens we see who aren't on active duty or wearing the admittedly random uniforms and yet Becca claims it's hard for everyone. Meanwhile, pretty much every other resident besides Tisha is seen wearing a vest uniform, carrying a gun, or assisting the inner circle members.
What was life like at Howes if you weren't stuck in the yard?
What did Carver use that creepy bloody chair for? Alvin died at the lodge in my game but Carver still had it.
True. Though the camera still focuses on a blood puddle in Kenny's random tent if Sarita was left in the herd and a gap in the observation deck's rubble if you left Sarah in the trailer.
Would a MtG Color Wheel thread be too niche a topic? This is coming from someone who doesn't really know much about the game itself, btw..
Somewhere in this communities, there is a picture with all of the villains apparently plotting against Clementine. Does anyone have a copy of it?
Were people really surprised that Taavia was talking about Carver at Howe's Hardware?
Okay, I know I asked a similar question before, but does anyone actually like Wyatt himself?
What is every character's color and weapon of choice?
I know I asked this general question before but: What exactly happens to the people who get bitten and/or pass away and turn? As in, their consciousness?
Has there ever been an interview with Nick Breckon, Pierre Shorrette, etc.?
How much time had passed between 400 Days and Season 2?
I'm not being sarcastic. It's an interesting thought.
They craft a well-rounded character, but through storyline changes and omissions of dialogue, they end up seeming flat and lame.
Well, it's true. With the major exceptions of Michelle(a starter villain used to set the tone of the Season that still got a lot more though… moret put into her than they had to), "Ralph"(who I'll address under Mike), Pete(who dies before and separate from the derails), Walter(a idealistic oneshot whose connections to Kenny and Nick goes forgotten aside from being killed by Carver), Sarita(who was apparently a decomposite character of Sarah and a shameless satellite character for Kenny to loosely hang on his arm before her death triggers his sanity slippage), and Natasha(who has relatively few lines that are hard to hear and is really just a walking motivation for Arvo to do anything), nearly all of the characters start off with hints of deeper characterization and hidden depths, but it's mostly untapped due to the focus of Kenny:
* Clementine-Had guilt over the fact that people tend to die because of her, can claim she killed Lee, is initiall… [view original content]
How do you think things would've gone and how you would've felt if Kenny had been "Carver" like originally planned?
What hobbies do you think the characters have/had?
Given the Season's track record, do you think Jane was intentionally designed with the option of replacing Luke and Sarah in mind?
For those who wanna get all Ron the Death Eater: do you think that being right about Eleanor could be a sign of the writers trying to have another character like Kenny in terms of reception and execution?
What is each characters personal philosophies/morality/etc?
I think an interesting story path for Season 2 would have been to keep Carver alive after the group escapes Howe's. The camp kills the walkers in the herd and holds the stronghold. In Episode 5 Jane could argue that they were safer at Howe's and while being under tyranny, they were still safe from the walkers and had a reliable supply of medicine and food. Kenny says "I ain't fixing to be no prisoner again." In the ending with Jane they return to Howe's and work their way to becoming trusted enforcers. Carver raises Clementine and AJ for two years, Jane still dies, the community ends up ridden with walkers due to mutiny and the player gets an emotional send off with Bill who has been bitten
Do you think the 400 Days characters who stayed at the camp ever ran into Nate or Eddie or any other characters that we know?
It's perfectly possible.
Do you think the 400 Days characters were smartest to stay together or split up? I personally think some of them would do better at Howes than others.
This is an interesting question. I think that out of the survivors we see only two of them could probably manage surviving on their own for a long period of time: Shel and maybe Vince. As far as Bonnie, Wyatt and Russell go, I think it's their nature to follow not to lead so I think Howe's was probably the best place for them
Do you think the 400 Days characters who stayed at the camp ever ran into Nate or Eddie or any other characters that we know?
Do you thin… morek the 400 Days characters were smartest to stay together or split up? I personally think some of them would do better at Howes than others.
Interesting that you say that because I had Vince and Shel stay behind while Bonnie, Wyatt, and Russell went to Howes. Vince and Shel's were about survival, and they're the two characters that can intentionally choose to kill another human. I see Vince, Shel, and Becca as a very capable makeshift family. I think they'd still be okay even to the present day.
Do you think the 400 Days characters who stayed at the camp ever ran into Nate or Eddie or any other characters that we know?
It's p… moreerfectly possible.
Do you think the 400 Days characters were smartest to stay together or split up? I personally think some of them would do better at Howes than others.
This is an interesting question. I think that out of the survivors we see only two of them could probably manage surviving on their own for a long period of time: Shel and maybe Vince. As far as Bonnie, Wyatt and Russell go, I think it's their nature to follow not to lead so I think Howe's was probably the best place for them
I think an interesting story path for Season 2 would have been to keep Carver alive after the group escapes Howe's. The camp kills the walke… morers in the herd and holds the stronghold. In Episode 5 Jane could argue that they were safer at Howe's and while being under tyranny, they were still safe from the walkers and had a reliable supply of medicine and food. Kenny says "I ain't fixing to be no prisoner again." In the ending with Jane they return to Howe's and work their way to becoming trusted enforcers. Carver raises Clementine and AJ for two years, Jane still dies, the community ends up ridden with walkers due to mutiny and the player gets an emotional send off with Bill who has been bitten
I always thought that Clementine and Carver should have had a more developed relationship, especially since that was hinted at in the preview for Episode 3. But it never really came to fruition.
I think an interesting story path for Season 2 would have been to keep Carver alive after the group escapes Howe's. The camp kills the walke… morers in the herd and holds the stronghold. In Episode 5 Jane could argue that they were safer at Howe's and while being under tyranny, they were still safe from the walkers and had a reliable supply of medicine and food. Kenny says "I ain't fixing to be no prisoner again." In the ending with Jane they return to Howe's and work their way to becoming trusted enforcers. Carver raises Clementine and AJ for two years, Jane still dies, the community ends up ridden with walkers due to mutiny and the player gets an emotional send off with Bill who has been bitten
I think an interesting story path for Season 2 would have been to keep Carver alive after the group escapes Howe's. The camp kills the walke… morers in the herd and holds the stronghold. In Episode 5 Jane could argue that they were safer at Howe's and while being under tyranny, they were still safe from the walkers and had a reliable supply of medicine and food. Kenny says "I ain't fixing to be no prisoner again." In the ending with Jane they return to Howe's and work their way to becoming trusted enforcers. Carver raises Clementine and AJ for two years, Jane still dies, the community ends up ridden with walkers due to mutiny and the player gets an emotional send off with Bill who has been bitten
I think she said something about being in Washington at one point when some dick got stuck under a car and tore out an old woman's throat when they got him out? So, it's possible she was from the Nevada area or most likely Jersey.
What was life like at Howes if you weren't stuck in the yard?
What did Carver use that creepy bloody chair for? Alvin died at the lodge in my game but Carver still had it.
That's what I always thought, but that doesn't really make sense since Carver can say his family set up camp by the river with tents and everything and Howe's Hardware as supposedly in Tennessee rather than North Carolina.
About to move onto season 2 episode 4, and I'd like to hear opinions on this: Shoot Rebecca or call for help? My last 4 play throughs of season 2 has always been "call for help" because I still want to react how I would in real life, and by that means asking someone older to well, tackle Rebecca and stop the brain with a melee weapon, but if there was an option, I'd have Clem do that herself, but regardless, considering the circumstances I wished not to fire off a round in high tensions of a gun fight possibility, but Kenny shoots Rebecca anyways. I think instinctively you would shoot Rebecca to save AJ without risking anything else, but again, not an option to do much else, and I think it would be a bit hard for Clementine having to put down AJ's real Mom, and one day explain, "Your real mother turned while holding you AJ...so I had to protect you and shoot her before she could harm you, it's what she would've wanted for you". Who knows, it's a trivial decision but I'd like to here what everyone's opinion on it is, I may still end up calling for help.
I don't know the exact amount, but I'll assure you season 1 had a vast amount and variety of voice files, season 2 also has a lot, season 3 obvious has little, and at the end of the season will have less than season 2 even for sure. Season 1 had a lot more scripting and writing that they had to vocalize compared to season 2 (but overall I loved season 2 almost as much as season 1) so there's a decent amount more, but I'd have to look through the files myself to assure this, or at least get the precise quantity (depending if it's all neatly organized and isn't too time consuming, it might be plausible for anyone to do).
I don't know the exact amount, but I'll assure you season 1 had a vast amount and variety of voice files, season 2 also has a lot, season 3 … moreobvious has little, and at the end of the season will have less than season 2 even for sure. Season 1 had a lot more scripting and writing that they had to vocalize compared to season 2 (but overall I loved season 2 almost as much as season 1) so there's a decent amount more, but I'd have to look through the files myself to assure this, or at least get the precise quantity (depending if it's all neatly organized and isn't too time consuming, it might be plausible for anyone to do).
No, when Carver was talking about his family by the river or was "neighbors" with their Cabin, it was all just to disguise Carver more/give an excuse. Carver was lying about it; making a story/pretense.
That's what I always thought, but that doesn't really make sense since Carver can say his family set up camp by the river with tents and everything and Howe's Hardware as supposedly in Tennessee rather than North Carolina.
No, when Carver was talking about his family by the river or was "neighbors" with their Cabin, it was all just to disguise Carver more/give an excuse. Carver was lying about it; making a story/pretense.
I think shooting her yourself is the better choice. It is important for Clem to be able to make quick decisions like that and like the story generator said, "when an infants life is in danger, there is no time to hesitate".
About to move onto season 2 episode 4, and I'd like to hear opinions on this: Shoot Rebecca or call for help? My last 4 play throughs of sea… moreson 2 has always been "call for help" because I still want to react how I would in real life, and by that means asking someone older to well, tackle Rebecca and stop the brain with a melee weapon, but if there was an option, I'd have Clem do that herself, but regardless, considering the circumstances I wished not to fire off a round in high tensions of a gun fight possibility, but Kenny shoots Rebecca anyways. I think instinctively you would shoot Rebecca to save AJ without risking anything else, but again, not an option to do much else, and I think it would be a bit hard for Clementine having to put down AJ's real Mom, and one day explain, "Your real mother turned while holding you AJ...so I had to protect you and shoot her before she could harm you, it's what she would've wanted for you". Who knows, it'… [view original content]
??? - I don't get the premise of this comment much, but yes, that's valid, in season 2 episode 4 when you got "scouting" for friends which is your first character development time period with Jane, she talks about her sister and how she didn't want to move on and had to keep forcing her to move on "hell, even carry her if I have to", and more, etc. Yes, Jane didn't want her sister to die even when she gave up, but had to let her die because she couldn't throw her across a roof if I recall, so she had to leave her with the walkers.
Okay Janiacs, this be a chance to be useful, as TWD Wikia said this--Is it true?:
Jaime began telling Jane how her only wish was to die, though Jane refused to listen to her.
Nope, you just run off and the background blurs if I recall which leads to you vaguely seeing Kenny get ripped apart. Fuck season 3, Jesus Christ, I didn't even get one bit sad with that 5 minute; horribly written flashback, considering the models looks awful and it's just...stupid in general, but everyone's ranted about that so I'll stop now.
I remember the whole "carry her" bit just fine: I just never got the vibe that she outright said "I want to die," like Mrs. Tucker. I was always pretty sure Jaime was just really lethargic with depression and in a constant of "I don't wanna go to school today"--especially on repeats/rewatches.
??? - I don't get the premise of this comment much, but yes, that's valid, in season 2 episode 4 when you got "scouting" for friends which i… mores your first character development time period with Jane, she talks about her sister and how she didn't want to move on and had to keep forcing her to move on "hell, even carry her if I have to", and more, etc. Yes, Jane didn't want her sister to die even when she gave up, but had to let her die because she couldn't throw her across a roof if I recall, so she had to leave her with the walkers.
The story generator is mostly placebo, and the save file from season 2 --> season 3 included, so I doubt it'll make a difference. Hell, my Clem would never pull a trigger on Eli out of ruthless, irrational, and cold murder. Yeah Eli deserved his fate, but not from Clem of all people, I get the rounds were bad, but still my Clementine knows gun safety and probably wouldn't shoot someone just like that in a community's bar, just where the hell does this come from; not like my save file or decisions affects her murdering Eli or not, she even wants you to cover up for it...which I'll still do, hopefully they can put her back on track though, Jesus.
I think shooting her yourself is the better choice. It is important for Clem to be able to make quick decisions like that and like the story generator said, "when an infants life is in danger, there is no time to hesitate".
Jaime was probably too depressed to move on; suicidal tendencies, etc. We know what this world does to people, and to some it's better off not fighting the inevitable; going through the afflictions accompanied with it, which is why only strong willed and intelligent; smart thinking people will prevail such as Clementine, whom despite circumstances and desolation will move forward and won't give up. E.g. season 2 episode 1 after the stray dog bites her arm giving her a severe laceration while she's starving, Clem moves on until she can barely physically move, tries to escape, then gets saved thankfully, but even this was the beginning of Clementine seeking her strength in this world, and I'm so damn proud how she turned out by the end of season 2 (not so proud in season 3...), hell, she even takes a bullet to the shoulder.
I remember the whole "carry her" bit just fine: I just never got the vibe that she outright said "I want to die," like Mrs. Tucker. I was al… moreways pretty sure Jaime was just really lethargic with depression and in a constant of "I don't wanna go to school today"--especially on repeats/rewatches.
Eh, maybe so, but they could've gotten that across (or better yet handled it) better. Plus, I just reeeally can't stand that Social Darwinism BS Carver and Jane constantly spout.
hell, she even takes a bullet to the shoulder.
A bullet she shouldn't've had to take(thank you Asshole One-eye and Bitch Dike), but I get your point.
Jaime was probably too depressed to move on; suicidal tendencies, etc. We know what this world does to people, and to some it's better off n… moreot fighting the inevitable; going through the afflictions accompanied with it, which is why only strong willed and intelligent; smart thinking people will prevail such as Clementine, whom despite circumstances and desolation will move forward and won't give up. E.g. season 2 episode 1 after the stray dog bites her arm giving her a severe laceration while she's starving, Clem moves on until she can barely physically move, tries to escape, then gets saved thankfully, but even this was the beginning of Clementine seeking her strength in this world, and I'm so damn proud how she turned out by the end of season 2 (not so proud in season 3...), hell, she even takes a bullet to the shoulder.
Comments
Well, it's true. With the major exceptions of Michelle(a starter villain used to set the tone of the Season that still got a lot more thought put into her than they had to), "Ralph"(who I'll address under Mike), Pete(who dies before and separate from the derails), Walter(a idealistic oneshot whose connections to Kenny and Nick goes forgotten aside from being killed by Carver), Sarita(who was apparently a decomposite character of Sarah and a shameless satellite character for Kenny to loosely hang on his arm before her death triggers his sanity slippage), and Natasha(who has relatively few lines that are hard to hear and is really just a walking motivation for Arvo to do anything), nearly all of the characters start off with hints of deeper characterization and hidden depths, but it's mostly untapped due to the focus of Kenny:
Clementine-Had guilt over the fact that people tend to die because of her, can claim she killed Lee, is initially motivated to find Christa, and is somewhat implied to be suffering from very mild depression but this kinda falls by the wayside as the game progresses before getting brief callbacks in No Going Back.
Luke-Has this sense of pragmatism and sneakiness about him that does somewhat recurs throughout the story, but is somewhat muddled due to his Hero Complex, his rivalry with the comparatively byronic asshole Kenny, and often being perceived as a bland nice guy. On top of that, his sibling-like relationship with Clementine is somewhat downplayed in favor of shilling Jane in that role instead, his implied history as a partner of Carver is never really elaborated on and the two only get one (admittedly great) scene together that gets hijacked by Kenny, and just to further rub salt in the wound, his role in the intentionally hyped up throwdown with Kenny was also given to Jane, making his character derailment(and in some people's view, his entire character) pointless.
Nick-Probably one of the most wasted characters, Nick got a disproprotionate amount of development, backstory, and nuance put into him despite being Luke's sidekick. The first two episodes had his character at the forefront of a few subplots that exposed his traumatic paranoia about bite victims, his guilty struggles to live up to his family and peer's expectations of him, and his fatalistic outlook on the world. After losing all of his people, his "aggro" overreactions causes him to kill the partner of Walter, who determinately saves him if Clementine vouches for him and Nick owns up to it. Unfortunately, he stops being relevant after A House Divided, either becoming a statistic on the list of fallen Cabin Group members reported to Reggie or just a lazy carryover that just lays around doing nothing noteworthy, mostly talks about/to Luke and Kenny, and is mortally wounded offscreen(which I heard might have to do with his voice actor being unavailable) before turning up as a walker in Amid the Ruins. He is then used in Jane's lessons by being put down in a needlessly graphic fashion so she can be there to comfort Clementine before she reveals the meat of her character and some of her true colors.
Rebecca-There were a number of things suggesting that she on some level willingly slept with Carver and was burdened with guilt over that helped lead to her vindictiveness regarding him that influenced her initially treatment of Clementine, but you know about the 180 and the strong implication that Carver raped her. Some people also note that she seemed afraid of Alvin learning the truth about AJ because "he'll kill me," but I personally think that might just be an exaggeration of him being pissed.
Alvin-The exact details regarding George are relatively vague aside from the inferrable conclusion that he and Carver were friends once, which likely led to Rebecca's job, the affair, and eventually the escape, with the only information we get about that situation being the fact that they knew he had died and Bonnie saying that his death was probably unintentional, implying he got in the way during the escape on Carver's behalf and Alvin struck him down in the process of escaping. There was also the matter of him learning about Carver being the father of AJ, which is...confusing to be honest, since he seemed to get jarringly abrasive when Carver was the topic to begin with, so I don't know what the fuck was going on there. And he originally was meant to go fishing alongside Clementine and probably Luke at the end of All that Remains before the walkers showed up, but that was changed half-way through development so that he and Luke went out looking for her and the Randalls when they didn't come back; this was likely meant to establish him as being somewhat relaxed at times since fishing requires patience.
Carlos-We talked about this in another thread, but it's very noticeable that Carlos was originally meant to be a major character but many of his intended scenes were given to Kenny in later episodes: he is the one most commonly portrayed as the leader of the group before Luke and especially Kenny take over, everyone stands back(and Nick and Rebecca shut the fuck up) when he comes out, when he comes to examine Clementine, his dialogue and behavior varies based on Clementine's own(he can even smile at her!), explains the current situation to Clementine, and he is often seen giving orders and handling things when Luke isn't doing so. His history and interactions regarding Carver suggests that the two once respected each other on some level but things fell apart due to Carver's increasingly oppression, Carlos following Luke in getting Rebecca away from him, and a potential threat to Sarah's well-being and/or source of her PTSD and his overprotective extremism regarding her; the fact that they have noticeably different approaches to parenting, are initially portrayed as very smart and apparently dangerous men, are the leaders of their respective groups, and even have similar designs and expressions make it somewhat likely that Carver was supposed to be his Evil Counterpart rather than Kenny's. And finally, he is the first character to confide in Clementine about his motivations, even asking her to stay away from Sarah, but warms up to her as the story goes on, to the point of being concerned for her safety on the bridge, being quick to trust her to handle the windmill situation, covering her when she runs out of ammo, and approving of her friendship with Sarah, due to a combination of desperate times and his own parental/medicinal instincts; this tends to be overlooked or ignored by most people due to his limited screentime in later episodes or simply focusing more on his negative/ludacris aspects.
Sarah-Definitely one of the most consistent characters thanks to her distinct passivity, demographic, and psychosis among the other characters, she was implied to have quite a few hidden depths regarding her implied nature as a secret keeper(with mixed results), hints at sneaky and even rebellious traits of her own, her desire to be more involved in the group and/or become a true survivor, her seemingly odd perception of morality, and her opinions on Carlos's actions, methods, and treatment of her. It's also somewhat inferrable that her PTSD, tendency to become depressed or worked up when bad things happen happen regarding people she cares about, and overreactions to violence may have been caused by Carver killing her mom. While most of it is justified by events and somewhat present if you squint and/or reach hard enough, most of this goes unresolved along with her character arc as a whole, as she gets demonized and abandoned due to her killer and replacement Jane. It's also worth noting that her determinant friendship with Clementine, being one of the characters with the most meaningful choices, and having numerous influence in the artwork, achievements, and soundtrack mark her as being important and makes her sudden removal from the story all the more jarring.
Carver-The main villain of the Season 2(even if the later half was mostly in spirit), he was the opposing end of the Grey vs. Gray feud between him and the Cabin Group, having a personal connection to with everyone except Sarah(who he simply uses as a potential bargaining chip to Carlos, to further enforce his propaganda, and stroke his ego), Nick(who he doesn't even mention directly), and Pete(who he implies doesn't actually trust Clementine). It's inferrable that he was friends with Alvin and possibly Carlos once, used his connections to give Rebecca a job, and may've had Luke as a partner, but his increasingly tough procedures, clashing ideologies with Luke, potential widowing of Carlos, and adultery with his PA announcer caused them to defect and escape, killing his friend George and leaving a turncoat member of his inner circle behind in their wake. Thus, he was presented as an intelligent, charismatic, and dangerous man who had several of his people turn on him and take his doctor, baby mama, and future heir away from him and would do anything to get them--and his family--back. Of course, he was reduced to (what he truly was on the inside, in my first impression of AHD) being an egotistical, psychopathic, Darwinist tyrant who smugly enforces his will by abusing and corrupting any one he comes across for any petty reason he can find. His respect for Clementine(or "Carley," who he warned not to trust the Cabin Group) was retained, but was reduced to a comical declaration of them being kindred spirits after he killed guy over some berries.
Troy-a decomposite character/rejected model of Carver, he was clearly just there to be someone to be an asshole minion until his likely death/defeat at Clementine's hands and yet still had a few select hints of having standards and even a softer side but gets offed to further hype Jane up as being hardcore.
Taavia-I know I'm cheating here, but she's really just there for you to go "Oh shit, she was working for Carver the whole tiem!" at the beginning of the episode and that's it. There's barely anything going on with her outside of being an inner circle member that's not Bonnie or Troy, making her seeming shift in characterization somewhat pointless no matter how you look at it
Bonnie-Kinda acceptable to a point in my opinion, but there's the concern you previously about her feelings about Carver and the people of Howe's going unaddressed in favor of focusing on her connection with Clementine and a Professional Supporting Character alongside Mike.
Mike-Was originally intended to have been "Ralph" of the North Carolina Bandits Scavengers, scarred due to friendly fire by Victor and captured by Carver after seeing his group shot up. This was likely changed to lessen the episode length and , and so he's just a leftover model from a dummied subplot that just acts as THE Professsional Supporting Character, most notably as Kenny's headbutting buddy, friendly protector to the children/youth, and Bonnie's counterpart before finally getting a proper role in No Going Back as the lead defector alongside Arvo and determinately Bonnie.
Jane-Probably the most egregious character in entire Season/Series, Jane is almost completely walking-talking proof that the writers were making things up as they went along, for worse or better. Introduced as a hardcore, stoic badass who had been captured by Carver, she did simultaneously very much(by helping the group devise the escape plan before killing her secret fling on the inside Troy) and very little (by not saying much, keeping to herself, and being seen as weird by even the nicer characters for most of the episode), generally making you wonder who she was the entire time--in essence, a gimmick character of the Jailbreak genre. Seeing how people reacted to her presence during In Harm's Way, Jane had much of her characterization and dialogue tweaked from a hardass who could barely tolerate stupidity and annoyances to an Anti-hero with a tragic backstory who dominated much of the final two episodes by more or less taking over Luke, Sarah, and to a certain extent Carver's roles in addition to being Clementine's mentor(which was her original purpose). It is in this episode that she gets the bulk of her characterization: formally an edgy(and stupid) juvenile delinquent who palled around with her sister when she wasn't making mischief, Jane is a coldly pragmatic and antisocial expert survivalist who shares Carver's Darwinistic philosophy and has a prejudice against those she deems "liabilities," both being the products of abandoning her lethargic sister after weeks of carrying her across the countries; while definitely a dark contrast to everything the Howe's Ski Cabin Group believes in, it's implied that she is actively deluded herself to avoid thinking about what she did, hiding the fact she is actually very lonely, suffering from occasional bouts of guilt and depression, and might even be a high-functioning brand of insane, causing her engage in cold-blooded, reckless, contradictory, and even downright self-destructive behavior on a whim. The bulk of this comes to a head after she spends time with Clementine, advocates leaving Sarah to the walkers(who she constantly sees as Jaime), decides to rob and threaten Arvo, and has a one-afternoon-stand with Luke, resulting in her running away after her actions kills Sarah, coincides with Luke losing his faith in himself as a hero before indulging himself and becoming noticeably irritable towards Kenny, and eventually gets the group ambushed by a group of pissed off Russians, setting the stage for the group to fall apart. And then No Going Back happened, in which Jane returns from her supposed exile for killing Sarah out of fucking nowhere to stab Arvo's remaining group member Vitali in the back and decides she wants to be a part of the group now. What's so jarring about this is that it rivals Rebecca in terms of shifting characterization: formerly self-righteous, bad with conversation, lacking in empathy, psychologically burdened by guilt for killing Jaime and Sarah, and a Darwinist survivalist, Jane is now just another survivor who mediates arguments, somehow gets Kenny to shut up and listen, emphathizes with Arvo to the point of outright raising her voice in outrage over him getting beat to a pulp, casually brings up Jaime in passing like it's no biggie, never owns up to or even brings up the Sarah Situation, and curls up around the campfire like a fucking tween. ...I mean, holy shit--IS THIS EVEN THE SAME CHARACTER?! Don't get me wrong, character development is good and she's definitely faaar more tolerable if you just watch this episode as a stand alone, but you'd might as well replace her with Lilly or Molly, or better yet, Luke or even Sarah and it'd make about as much sense. The only consistency between episodes is her interest in Clementine, the fact that she's Bear-with-wide-canyon, her 'strong independent woman' archetype, and her conspiracy theories(which is actually one of the most interesting and best handled hints at development, if I'm being honest).
Arvo-See the posts above cause I'm lazy :P. Also, his beef with Jane is mostly ignored and is apparently resolved in the background of the roadside scene.
PS. It just occured to me I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not
Yeah that is possible. Rebecca's initial reaction to the missing arm was to assume that Carver did it. If Reggie is lying that would really take some commitment and brainwashing.
Apparently, a lot of work, since Shel and Becca are the only citizens we see who aren't on active duty or wearing the admittedly random uniforms and yet Becca claims it's hard for everyone. Meanwhile, pretty much every other resident besides Tisha is seen wearing a vest uniform, carrying a gun, or assisting the inner circle members.
For the sake of recapping general impressions, who had the best/worst 400 Days cameos?
True. Though the camera still focuses on a blood puddle in Kenny's random tent if Sarita was left in the herd and a gap in the observation deck's rubble if you left Sarah in the trailer.
Repeats
Would a MtG Color Wheel thread be too niche a topic? This is coming from someone who doesn't really know much about the game itself, btw..
Somewhere in this communities, there is a picture with all of the villains apparently plotting against Clementine. Does anyone have a copy of it?
Were people really surprised that Taavia was talking about Carver at Howe's Hardware?
Okay, I know I asked a similar question before, but does anyone actually like Wyatt himself?
What is every character's color and weapon of choice?
I know I asked this general question before but: What exactly happens to the people who get bitten and/or pass away and turn? As in, their consciousness?
Has there ever been an interview with Nick Breckon, Pierre Shorrette, etc.?
How much time had passed between 400 Days and Season 2?
I'm not being sarcastic. It's an interesting thought.
They craft a well-rounded character, but through storyline changes and omissions of dialogue, they end up seeming flat and lame.
crazy.
Repeats
How do you think things would've gone and how you would've felt if Kenny had been "Carver" like originally planned?
What hobbies do you think the characters have/had?
Given the Season's track record, do you think Jane was intentionally designed with the option of replacing Luke and Sarah in mind?
For those who wanna get all Ron the Death Eater: do you think that being right about Eleanor could be a sign of the writers trying to have another character like Kenny in terms of reception and execution?
What is each characters personal philosophies/morality/etc?
I think an interesting story path for Season 2 would have been to keep Carver alive after the group escapes Howe's. The camp kills the walkers in the herd and holds the stronghold. In Episode 5 Jane could argue that they were safer at Howe's and while being under tyranny, they were still safe from the walkers and had a reliable supply of medicine and food. Kenny says "I ain't fixing to be no prisoner again." In the ending with Jane they return to Howe's and work their way to becoming trusted enforcers. Carver raises Clementine and AJ for two years, Jane still dies, the community ends up ridden with walkers due to mutiny and the player gets an emotional send off with Bill who has been bitten
Do you think the 400 Days characters who stayed at the camp ever ran into Nate or Eddie or any other characters that we know?
Do you think the 400 Days characters were smartest to stay together or split up? I personally think some of them would do better at Howes than others.
It's perfectly possible.
This is an interesting question. I think that out of the survivors we see only two of them could probably manage surviving on their own for a long period of time: Shel and maybe Vince. As far as Bonnie, Wyatt and Russell go, I think it's their nature to follow not to lead so I think Howe's was probably the best place for them
Interesting that you say that because I had Vince and Shel stay behind while Bonnie, Wyatt, and Russell went to Howes. Vince and Shel's were about survival, and they're the two characters that can intentionally choose to kill another human. I see Vince, Shel, and Becca as a very capable makeshift family. I think they'd still be okay even to the present day.
Not really a question, pal. Might be better suited to my rewrite thread or something similar.
I always thought that Clementine and Carver should have had a more developed relationship, especially since that was hinted at in the preview for Episode 3. But it never really came to fruition.
Woah, that would've been really cool! I don't think we got nearly enough mileage with Carver in general.
What type of Singer do you think each character is?
Did Clementine go back to the car crash to see if Kenny turned and to put him down if he did?
Maybe, maybe not. Depending on how you feel about reused assets and locations.
Lol not exactly what I meant
Which 4 states did Jane drag Jaime through? What do you think they went thru?
I think she said something about being in Washington at one point when some dick got stuck under a car and tore out an old woman's throat when they got him out? So, it's possible she was from the Nevada area or most likely Jersey.
Carver used that chair to do things of this nature
Okay Janiacs, this be a chance to be useful, as TWD Wikia said this--Is it true?:
How does a thread about Alternate Universes sound?
Was the camp Carver and Carlos mention in A House Divided meant to be a literal camp that Carver's retrieval team set up?
How many voice files are in Season 1 compared to Season 2?
No they were talking about Howes right?
That's what I always thought, but that doesn't really make sense since Carver can say his family set up camp by the river with tents and everything and Howe's Hardware as supposedly in Tennessee rather than North Carolina.
About to move onto season 2 episode 4, and I'd like to hear opinions on this: Shoot Rebecca or call for help? My last 4 play throughs of season 2 has always been "call for help" because I still want to react how I would in real life, and by that means asking someone older to well, tackle Rebecca and stop the brain with a melee weapon, but if there was an option, I'd have Clem do that herself, but regardless, considering the circumstances I wished not to fire off a round in high tensions of a gun fight possibility, but Kenny shoots Rebecca anyways. I think instinctively you would shoot Rebecca to save AJ without risking anything else, but again, not an option to do much else, and I think it would be a bit hard for Clementine having to put down AJ's real Mom, and one day explain, "Your real mother turned while holding you AJ...so I had to protect you and shoot her before she could harm you, it's what she would've wanted for you". Who knows, it's a trivial decision but I'd like to here what everyone's opinion on it is, I may still end up calling for help.
I don't know the exact amount, but I'll assure you season 1 had a vast amount and variety of voice files, season 2 also has a lot, season 3 obvious has little, and at the end of the season will have less than season 2 even for sure. Season 1 had a lot more scripting and writing that they had to vocalize compared to season 2 (but overall I loved season 2 almost as much as season 1) so there's a decent amount more, but I'd have to look through the files myself to assure this, or at least get the precise quantity (depending if it's all neatly organized and isn't too time consuming, it might be plausible for anyone to do).
Yeah, if it's in a PC's Program Files, than it should be easy to count how many audio files there are just by sorting and then highlighting them.
No, when Carver was talking about his family by the river or was "neighbors" with their Cabin, it was all just to disguise Carver more/give an excuse. Carver was lying about it; making a story/pretense.
That makes sense enough. Still find it a bit weird that they say Howe's is not far from there, though.
I think shooting her yourself is the better choice. It is important for Clem to be able to make quick decisions like that and like the story generator said, "when an infants life is in danger, there is no time to hesitate".
??? - I don't get the premise of this comment much, but yes, that's valid, in season 2 episode 4 when you got "scouting" for friends which is your first character development time period with Jane, she talks about her sister and how she didn't want to move on and had to keep forcing her to move on "hell, even carry her if I have to", and more, etc. Yes, Jane didn't want her sister to die even when she gave up, but had to let her die because she couldn't throw her across a roof if I recall, so she had to leave her with the walkers.
Nope, you just run off and the background blurs if I recall which leads to you vaguely seeing Kenny get ripped apart. Fuck season 3, Jesus Christ, I didn't even get one bit sad with that 5 minute; horribly written flashback, considering the models looks awful and it's just...stupid in general, but everyone's ranted about that so I'll stop now.
I remember the whole "carry her" bit just fine: I just never got the vibe that she outright said "I want to die," like Mrs. Tucker. I was always pretty sure Jaime was just really lethargic with depression and in a constant of "I don't wanna go to school today"--especially on repeats/rewatches.
The story generator is mostly placebo, and the save file from season 2 --> season 3 included, so I doubt it'll make a difference. Hell, my Clem would never pull a trigger on Eli out of ruthless, irrational, and cold murder. Yeah Eli deserved his fate, but not from Clem of all people, I get the rounds were bad, but still my Clementine knows gun safety and probably wouldn't shoot someone just like that in a community's bar, just where the hell does this come from; not like my save file or decisions affects her murdering Eli or not, she even wants you to cover up for it...which I'll still do, hopefully they can put her back on track though, Jesus.
Jaime was probably too depressed to move on; suicidal tendencies, etc. We know what this world does to people, and to some it's better off not fighting the inevitable; going through the afflictions accompanied with it, which is why only strong willed and intelligent; smart thinking people will prevail such as Clementine, whom despite circumstances and desolation will move forward and won't give up. E.g. season 2 episode 1 after the stray dog bites her arm giving her a severe laceration while she's starving, Clem moves on until she can barely physically move, tries to escape, then gets saved thankfully, but even this was the beginning of Clementine seeking her strength in this world, and I'm so damn proud how she turned out by the end of season 2 (not so proud in season 3...), hell, she even takes a bullet to the shoulder.
Eh, maybe so, but they could've gotten that across (or better yet handled it) better. Plus, I just reeeally can't stand that Social Darwinism BS Carver and Jane constantly spout.
A bullet she shouldn't've had to take(thank you Asshole One-eye and Bitch Dike), but I get your point.