The real reason for the shoot Conrad or Give up Clem choice.
Im guessing telltale s preparing something like they did With Tales from the borderlands in episode 2.
In the ending of the episode you had to decide between trusting Fiona ((The 2nd player character)) Or handsome jack ((A Psychopatic Villain who destroyed countless lives ))
And in the end episode 3 Rewarded people who chose Jack by having every character come out Ok with the addition of an extra character ((A Robot Named Dumpy))
So im guessing Telltale s doing the same thing here by Rewarding people who chose the betray Clem option to make people replay the game to get the better outcome ((More Screentime with Clem and Conrad adding dialogue to a couple of scenes.))
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They are expecting nearly 90% of people to replay the game then. Stupid way to balance the statistics of a very stupid situation/choice.
I'll stay with my choice until the end of season.
Nah my conrad will stay dead no matter what they can keep thier rewards
I disagree with the notion that just because a lot of people decide not to do something Telltale shouldn't put in the effort. Fuck that, if you give me the choice then I want as much effort put into my outcome as the others regardless how many people choose it. This game isn't a popularity contest.
If they really wanted the conrad choice to REALLY make a difference this is what they should've done. If you take clementine hostage you start EP3 as Javier and get to explore the community and meet exclusive characters in the community before Javier and the group is kicked out. If you shoot Conrad then you begin EP3 as clementine and get to solve a few puzzles,open hubs,interactive environments,etc. You meet exclusive characters that depending on your interaction with them affects the story later down the road when Clementine finds Javier and the group.
It would make sense to do that for a controversial choice that has a 50/50 split.
It does not, however, make sense to significantly flesh out a route that only ~10% of players took.
I also feel sort of cheated because Conrad was an awesome character but my hand was forced once they pitted him against Clementine.
It wasn't forced so much as you just favored clementine over conrad.
Not so much favored, as was unwilling to submit to the demands of a gun waving lunatic.
You could look at it that way, but the majority of people stated they shot conrad just because they favoured clementine.
Oh, I definetly shot him for Clem, didn't mean to imply that I did it for any other reason. But there are good reasons to shoot him beyond my undying loyalty to Clem.
I also admit that there are good reasons to let him live.
The majority of the people here, we're just the minority according to TT. The majority of the players shot Conrad, and we may never know why. If it was simply because they favored Clementine, then what a stupid decision it was to limit her appearance so severely in the next episode for the vast majority of the audience. And the only way to change this is to replay one of the worst episodes in the series because they took out the rewind function?
Agreed. I would have vastly preferred starting out as Clementine after her departure in the next episode if we let her go, at least to see what she did during that time period. Unfortunately the episode will likely play out exactly the same, except with additional characters and dialogue. It's a shame effort was only put into the choice if you chose a specific outcome.
People on the forums admitted they simply shot him because they liked clementine. The gamingsins guy even stated he chose clementine simply because it's clementine. So it's not a "how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll" question we're dealing with. Granted the forums do not make up the overall core amount of walking dead players.
I freely admitted that people here said it, gamingsins is just one guy. Job made it clear that the people here represent the minority in regards to our feedback, and as such, this forum can't really represent the feelings of the majority of players.
Apparently, the writers of Season 2.5 thought so.
There are outliers of course. But I have yet to see anything but a general consensus that the Forums complaints are everyone's complaints.
So basically, playing with expectations by presenting a choice they know by now that most people would void the second it's presented. Brilliant!
No but seriously, I think it was an ingenious choice on their part for making the player's...choice matter: You either continue to put Clementine on a pedestal by making the bad choice and suffer for it or you do the more pragmatic thing by making the good choice and get rewarded with more screentime for her and Conrad.
Though the lack of the classic rewind feature is a downgrade.
I don't sell people out.
I have seen you make some good arguments for Conrad. But at the end of the day siding with him means selling out someone else. That's just not a decision I can live with. Especially when it's Clem.
Did I? Cause I think I've openly vouched for his possible daughter 99% more than I ever did with him, but if you say so.
Ironically enough though, even without my other more personal motivations, the reason most people shot him is exactly the deal-sealer why I didn't: because it's Clementine!
I know you and I have done this dance before. You actually made me consider having a playthrough for the purpose of having Clem around in episode 3.
Oh, okay then.
So now TT presents us with choices, then rewards us for not making what they consider the bad choice? That's asinine, not ingenius. It's really not the players fault they have an attachment to a character who's been a major part of the game until now, and we're punished for not choosing Javiers poorly developed family over said character? It's not on the players to force themselves to like characters, that's on the team crafting and developing the characters. And when there's really no development for the characters, 89.5% of the fan base defaults to the more liked and known character. TTs got balls, I'll give them that. Unfortunately having the balls to alienate the majority of the paying customers you aim to please doesn't seem like a good business tactic.
I might have to revisit that scene, but I think preserving the health of all lives involved is good compared to just killing a guy, whether he took your [controversial] nephew hostage or not.
He pointed a gun at two kids, forcing you to shoot him before he shoots one in the head, or take the other hostage to an armed militant group who killed Javiers niece and everyone at Prescott. Conrad displayed no mental health to preserve, and if he was going to kill Javiers nephew if he don't cooperate odds are he isn't going to ask him to let bygones be bygones and continue together, the next bullet is going straight into Javiers shabbily bearded head.
The point of moral choices is there shouldn't be a right and wrong choice, and the fact that TT isn't seeing it that way anymore I'd just sad.
Pretty sure that's how most of the choices were made to look from day one. Kenny, for example, was actually the bad angel for much of Season 1, expecting Lee to do things that would push him closer to the darker side implied by his backstory despite being his supposed best friend who had pretty much everything Lee wanted. Jane sorta takes a similar role (despite later being shoehorned into being against Kenny himself, oddly enough) due to her philosophy involving being willing to sacrifice others on a whim to save your own skin. The idea was more that the good choices often seemed like the hardest thing to do for the sake of getting the better results morality-wise.
Of course, because ANF is so shallow at times, it just so happened that the bad choice in this instance involved siding with a former associate of the enemy by killing an ally proposing a bargain-based plan purely because that enemy happened to be Clementine.
So who was the right person to save, as far as being good is concerned, Carly or Doug? Was it right to kill the St Johns, or more morally good leave them broken to be killed by the herd? Was it right to shoot Duck, or morally good to leave him to turn? What was the right choice at the end of season 1? Who was the right person to run to at the end of episode 1 in season 2? Is it right to surrender to Carver with the pregnant lady he's been trying to capture, or to go look for help? What's the right way to help Sarita? Is it right to shoot a zombie holding a baby, or should I have gotten a second opinion? Who's the right person to kill at the end of season 2?
Because the moral choices have all had a black and white, right or wrong answer since the beginning, yea?
Yeah, that would be great. I want to say something about the next episode in regards to Clem actually but I'll hold off until ep3 comes out.
I'd say it's more of a spin-off than a sequel but yup. Let's hope they never touch this franchise ever again.
Doesn't this mean a choice actually mattered? I'm all for Clementine getting a lot more screentime, but it's finally a consequence for choosing another choice. I also think a rewind feature is needed though because if you accidently choose a different choice and it saved, you're basically screwed unless you play the whole episode again.
Good example on that Borderlands one, I was legitimately surprised when I replayed the episode prior, picked the less popular choice and a whole new character came to light because of it.
I don't think something like that will happen here this time, but that's still good speculation to have on it. Would wonder how they could do it though.
I didn't say that all of them apply, though my logic still applies 78% here.
Technically Carley, as saving her proves you're willing to keep someone around who could reveal your past rather take advantage of the situation to deal with that loose end.
Leave them, as Clementine and Lilly are both observing and judging you for doing so otherwise. Not to mention that though the St John's themselves have more than crossed the line, it's better to just leave defeated than just up and kill them; I see what you're getting at though.
Shoot him, as the boy has already suffered long enough because his dad (and later his mom) couldn't go through with it themselves on their own.
Not sure what you're referencing but while the Stranger is at least a justified potential kill since he's trying to kill Lee, Lee himself should be shot as well because it's been well established that that's the merciful thing to do.
Pete, as he is injured and it shows a willingness to help someone when there's still a chance to do so in spite of what would be easier.
Hmm...good one, but I think surrendering is better for the sake of preventing the people who have been captured from being hurt any further.
Okay, this one I grant you is a kinda meaningless one, as chopping her would save her from the infection but leave her agonizingly exposed to further bites in the middle of the herd, though I guess you could say leaving it on should've opened up the chance to cut it off later when it's safe to do so.
Shoot the walker, as any delay could've killed the baby said walker's departed consciousness went through a lot to have. It's no longer the person it used to be anyway--just the supernaturally automated corpse.
Not very clear admittedly, though that was the point of that specific one anyway.
Even if Telltale brought back Lee, Kenny, Omid etc. and writes the greatest episode of all time for those who didn't kill Conrad.. I don't care. Conrad was a garbage person and a danger to everyone, including himself. Javi had no reason to trust this emotionally unstable guy but he had reason to trust Clem who saved his life multiple times by that time. And then there's Gabe taken hostage. No. Conrad needed to go and nothing in the world can make me replay and change it.
Agreed. Though I was referring to Amid the Ruins and No Going Back.
I mean Javi knew this teenage girl had escaped from them and that they did bad stuff to her... then this traumatized dude wants to take her prisoner and threaten his nephew.
It's not just about putting Clem on a pedestal
The problem with making this particular choice the one that really matters is that ~90% won't see the additional content. And the reason they wont is because they felt compelled to shoot Conrad in what is one of the most unanimously one-sided choices yet.
Telltale aims to get choices at a 50/50 split, I wish they would have chosen more controversial choices to matter like shooting the driver or joining TNF or not.
I know and under normal circumstances, protecting both above all else would be the priority, but in this case, the story had been so on rails, Clementine proved herself to be a worrying amount of trouble numerous times before that reveal, the black guy's plan meant an easy way for everyone to get what the wanted, and I wanted answers on the shitload of stuff that was happening, so I personally didn't mind telling the guy what he wanted to hear since the only price is Clementine being taken out of her comfort zone for a bit and my nephew being understandably upset for a few seconds.
I won't know what all of those things in this context entails until release, of course, but the fact that it was a huge last minute choice with quite a few implications is one of the things that told me my mind was picking the right choice.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I was just pointing out that they actually did a choice that actually mattered, but the execution wasn't that great because the choice was almost always going to be biased towards Clementine.
Hell I wish they had done the same for choices like giving water to Victor, fessing up to the walkietalkie slapping Sarah, or shooting Rebecca.
Also, when the fuck do you get the choice to join The New Frontier?
When talking to Ava. You can accept or decline her offer to go back to her group. Either way Clem ends up joining.
No matter how much trouble Clem causes, players are going to support her because we've spent over two seasons with her and shes the only connection to the past.
And it never seemed very likely that his plan would work. TNF had already killed Mari and Clem told Sinbad (i mean Javi) bad stuff about them and said they wouldn't negotiate. Plus Conrad was completely out of his mind with grief and rage and had just gone full Hershel shotgun mode on a bunch of walkers.