I would of love that series so much more if the CIS were not so demonized 99% of the time. Same problem Rebels has as well, in fact Rebels is worse in that regard. I dunno what it is about Star Wars and making it not feel like war. War is literally never so black/white as Star Wars is. Gives a false impression and expectation to young viewers on how the world is, a very bad false impression as well.
I remember the movie prequels. I had high hopes that the CIS would be the good guys on Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith but GOD the characters the CIS characters.... all that lost potential... so lost. Just imagine if the count wasn't bad, but actually gray or good, and that time he had Obi Wan locked up he was truly trying to make Obi Wan see the light... but Obi Wan thinking he was a Sith only believed him as a Liar. Imagine if in Clone Wars (Movie) they spun it that way and then continued that into Revenge of the Sith, it would of made the Count an amazing character. But no... the Count was a sith, he was a bad guy... he was just an expendable bad guy.
Lately, I've been watching older episodes of the Star Wars Clone Wars series, which I didn't see when it was being produced.
It has q… moreuite a few serious issues in it, though I don't know if you can count it as being truly dramatic, because it had to fit into an already defined movie timeline, which meant you knew there was no chance of certain characters ever being in real danger.
Computers have gotten much better at animating than they used to be. Someone just has to be willing to take a risk. Look at this summer's movie line-up if you want to see just how risky Hollywood wants to be with new concepts.
People assume that just because something is cartoon it must be aimed at kids, while anime must be aimed at "mature" people.
Same with non-serious = kid, serious = adult. It doesn't really work like that.
To be honest, if you get ridiculed for watching something that is below your target audience's age range, then you shouldn't feel bad about it and bend over to some idiot who thinks that.
And alot of younger fans make negative comments about the older hand drawn shows they say its dated and unwatchable, the industry is all about pumping out the same story told slightly differently and selling merchandise now and they over use cg.
Honestly often anime is the opposite of serious.. Most anime today isn't taken seriously by the people working on them and they're selling p… moreretty girl faces with slap stick humor more than character development and story telling. Heck even the action scenes do not impress me on most anime I come across these days.
To be truthful anime hasn't changed much in that regard. The seriousness of productions have been toned down considerably to a point that the slice of life and comedy style anime are #1. During the 1980s and 1990s more story focused productions are the kings of the anime world, with almost Scifi and Fantasy world building to boot to bring to life not just the cast but a new world surrounding them. Though they still make anime like that it is no longer dominating the market.
Turn A Gundam which first aired in 1999 is a great example. They brought in the world designer from bloody Blade Runner! To help with the mechanical, vehicle and environmental design of the anime, it was a brilliant move. Turn A is one of the neatest Mech anime ever made.
That being said we are way off topic now so this will be my last post referring to anime. =P
And alot of younger fans make negative comments about the older hand drawn shows they say its dated and unwatchable, the industry is all about pumping out the same story told slightly differently and selling merchandise now and they over use cg.
Bit irritating when you think about it. I think during the 1980s there was a animated revolution, the 1960 and 70s saw most animated TV series as well insanely childish if not just idiotically simple. Something happened during the 1980s not just when it came to animated TV series but animated Films. A lot of people broke away from traditional production companies like Warner Brothers, and Disney and started making their own productions, often of lower quality animation wise but no less amazing.
This kind of continued into the 1990s as well. Even Disney joined the band wagon making a lot of TV shows with good episode story structure, and well thought out characters. Heck Gravity Falls is a recent example of that. Sadly I think I mentioned on another thread one time that it seems since 9/11 the quality of productions went out the window on average. It didn't help that TV channels like FOX ABC started side stepping animated TV series and throwing them out the window enitrely. Combined with the anime boom of the 2000s as anime started becoming more international rather than Japanese local (ie you used to have to be an enthusiast to find anime) now it's everywhere, even President Obama mentioned it in a few speeches about Japan. lol
Though, within the last few years it's gotten quite exciting again. I mean things like that Regular Show, Adventure Time, Steven's Universe, Gravity Falls. It is like animated TV shows in the US are making a come back, and I really hope they do. Then you have more adult oriented programming like Venture Bros, Archer, Rick and Morty, etc etc. I can honestly say within the last 4-5 years American animation has finally made a come back when it comes to TV shows. Though you can argue it's partly because good anime anymore is harder to find and what does exist is far more expensive to invest in, it is no longer cheap and easy to import like it used to be because of the internet and pirating and other combination of reasons.
We already know our animated films are amazing regardless, you can honestly thank Pixar mostly for that though. hehe
It's really odd.
People assume that just because something is cartoon it must be aimed at kids, while anime must be aimed at "mature" peo… moreple.
Same with non-serious = kid, serious = adult. It doesn't really work like that.
To be honest, if you get ridiculed for watching something that is below your target audience's age range, then you shouldn't feel bad about it and bend over to some idiot who thinks that.
I honestly liked WB cartoons and animated films out of all English companies.
WB's Batman and Mystery Incorporated were very serious and you can compare it to a cencored anime.
Heck, a lot of scenes in Mystery Inc were also cencored.
Bit irritating when you think about it. I think during the 1980s there was a animated revolution, the 1960 and 70s saw most animated TV se… moreries as well insanely childish if not just idiotically simple. Something happened during the 1980s not just when it came to animated TV series but animated Films. A lot of people broke away from traditional production companies like Warner Brothers, and Disney and started making their own productions, often of lower quality animation wise but no less amazing.
This kind of continued into the 1990s as well. Even Disney joined the band wagon making a lot of TV shows with good episode story structure, and well thought out characters. Heck Gravity Falls is a recent example of that. Sadly I think I mentioned on another thread one time that it seems since 9/11 the quality of productions went out the window on average. It didn't help that TV channels like FOX ABC started side stepping animated TV series … [view original content]
The Spawn cartoon was pretty damn serious. Like when he used his powers to pretend to be another man so he could sleep with his ex-wife whom remarried after his death. Not really a spoiler, that happens pretty quickly(zing). Or The Hunter arch. Or the end of the cop's story. Man, that show was good. I've got to pull out that DVD.
It's a bit old, but if you can stand super hero cartoons check out Teen Titans. It's a mix of the anime style and the kind of style you see in shows like Batman Beyond. It has goofy moments but it also covers a lot of serious themes such as the values of friendship, betrayal, and other things. One of the Titans, Raven, has a lot of serious plot lines and is a tragic character. It's a really good show, unfortunately it ended prematurely like many other good shows.
This discussion has been on my mind for a good MANY years. I like serious cartoons, but at the same time, I like non serious ones as well, just as long as they don't sink into Spongebob or Johnny Test humor (Ugh, can't believe I'm using THEM as a reference).
Nickelodeon's Penguins of Madagascar was not serious but it's humor made me laugh. And I think it did have some serious moments but thankfully they weren't rammed down your throat. In my opinion, the show had a perfect combination of humor, heart and insight.
I still will never forgive CN for the cancellation of Sym-Bionic Titan. Despite Samurai Jack returning, I will see it but only because I'm a fan and like the works of Gendy.
The latest new program on Nick: Miraculous Ladybug I feel is a gem. Despite the usual superhero battle formula, it has heart, and able to blend action and comedy perfectly.
Unfortunately, it comes from France. Maybe all the good, serious programs come from overseas.
And MLP: Friendship is Magic, I believe is serious, it provides good messaging plus ever developing characters. I'm glad it's lasting as long.
To me, quality toons are a dying breed. To the unique ones, I hope will prosper a good long while. And ones I hold in high regard, that are no longer on the air, will stay in my heart forevermore.
Futurama despite being mostly a comedy has some very serious moments. The episodes that come to mind: Leela's Homeworld, Game of Tones, Jurassic Bark and Luck of the Fryish.
Korra, while not as good as Avatar, was far from a fail. If anything, it was a much more mature and darker show that managed to tackle more serious and current issues.
Gravity Falls could be pretty serious if it needed to be. Just watch Not What He Seems, A Tale of Two Stans, or Into the Bunker if you don't believe me.
Futurama despite being mostly a comedy has some very serious moments. The episodes that come to mind: Leela's Homeworld, Game of Tones, Jurassic Bark and Luck of the Fryish.
I watched the Clone Wars throughout its run, good stuff. The darker episodes are among the best. The Umbara arc, the Wrong Jedi, anything with Darth Maul or the Nightsisters is all good and pretty damn serious.
Lately, I've been watching older episodes of the Star Wars Clone Wars series, which I didn't see when it was being produced.
It has q… moreuite a few serious issues in it, though I don't know if you can count it as being truly dramatic, because it had to fit into an already defined movie timeline, which meant you knew there was no chance of certain characters ever being in real danger.
Computers have gotten much better at animating than they used to be. Someone just has to be willing to take a risk. Look at this summer's movie line-up if you want to see just how risky Hollywood wants to be with new concepts.
I thought the Clone Wars made the Confederacy look better in many regards, with real attempts by some Separatist senators for peace and such. Plus there was the Confederacy vs. the Nightsisters and late the Shadow Collective (at least in the unproduced episodes comics), which was a little black vs. black.
Same problem Rebels has as well, in fact Rebels is worse in that regard.
It did have Saw Gerrera who was obviously an extremist, and it had the framing of Yogar Lyste, plus Minister Tua was genuinely a good person despite serving the Empire.
I would of love that series so much more if the CIS were not so demonized 99% of the time. Same problem Rebels has as well, in fact Rebels … moreis worse in that regard. I dunno what it is about Star Wars and making it not feel like war. War is literally never so black/white as Star Wars is. Gives a false impression and expectation to young viewers on how the world is, a very bad false impression as well.
I remember the movie prequels. I had high hopes that the CIS would be the good guys on Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith but GOD the characters the CIS characters.... all that lost potential... so lost. Just imagine if the count wasn't bad, but actually gray or good, and that time he had Obi Wan locked up he was truly trying to make Obi Wan see the light... but Obi Wan thinking he was a Sith only believed him as a Liar. Imagine if in Clone Wars (Movie) they spun it that way and then continued that into Revenge of the Sith, it would of… [view original content]
Wouldn't go that far. Any of the issues TLoK brought up sound darker and more mature on paper, but the way ATLAB handled the issues it aimed to tackle was so spot on that its themes went far deeper.
Korra, while not as good as Avatar, was far from a fail. If anything, it was a much more mature and darker show that managed to tackle more serious and current issues.
Ooh God I hate Korra dislikers sorry to say that but they talk so much shit on the show jees.
Like everytime with my cousins they hate the show and think I am wrong in every aspect and want me to shut the fuck up -_-
Do I agree on the show could be better YES: they downgraded bending, there isn't enough character development, Season 2 sucks, not enough planning sometimes because they planned only one season because it was supposed to be one season, not enough episodes.
But a huge fail? hell no.
To be truthful anime hasn't changed much in that regard. The seriousness of productions have been toned down considerably to a point that t… morehe slice of life and comedy style anime are #1. During the 1980s and 1990s more story focused productions are the kings of the anime world, with almost Scifi and Fantasy world building to boot to bring to life not just the cast but a new world surrounding them. Though they still make anime like that it is no longer dominating the market.
Turn A Gundam which first aired in 1999 is a great example. They brought in the world designer from bloody Blade Runner! To help with the mechanical, vehicle and environmental design of the anime, it was a brilliant move. Turn A is one of the neatest Mech anime ever made.
That being said we are way off topic now so this will be my last post referring to anime. =P
X) My friend's the same way- several people he knows hated the series. Like it or not, however, it exists, so anyone who's able to take something positive from it deserves a nod of appreciation. Good on you for enjoying it!
Ooh God I hate Korra dislikers sorry to say that but they talk so much shit on the show jees.
Like everytime with my cousins they hate the … moreshow and think I am wrong in every aspect and want me to shut the fuck up -_-
Do I agree on the show could be better YES: they downgraded bending, there isn't enough character development, Season 2 sucks, not enough planning sometimes because they planned only one season because it was supposed to be one season, not enough episodes.
But a huge fail? hell no.
Macross is a legend in anime honestly. Well at least the original TV series, it drops off badly after that save for some of the OVA short series like Plus and Zero. I grew up with the Robotech version, but I've seen both Japanese/English versions of the original none Robotech version of Macross. Still loved it regardless. I honestly like the Robotech version of the original Macross. I dunno, theme music made the battles more intense in my opinion. Whats tragic? Animated in 1982, and I still think this battle is better than the stuff you see on a lot of modern Gundam TV shows like 00, Age and Seed.
I often use this as a fun "Gundam 00 Season 1 in a Nutshell" example on how bad the battles were on Gundam 00 often... oh gosh where they bad when it came to gundams vs grunts.
Great fun fact for Starcraft Fans. The Battlecruiser unit voice was a parody of the Captain from the English version of Macross from the mid 1980s. lol
Macross is a legend in anime honestly. Well at least the original TV series, it drops off badly after that save for some of the OVA short s… moreeries like Plus and Zero. I grew up with the Robotech version, but I've seen both Japanese/English versions of the original none Robotech version of Macross. Still loved it regardless. I honestly like the Robotech version of the original Macross. I dunno, theme music made the battles more intense in my opinion. Whats tragic? Animated in 1982, and I still think this battle is better than the stuff you see on a lot of modern Gundam TV shows like 00, Age and Seed.
I often use this as a fun "Gundam 00 Season 1 in a Nutshell" example on how bad the battles were on Gundam 00 often... oh gosh where they bad when it came to gundams vs grunts.
Great fun fact for Starcraft Fans. The Battlecruiser unit voice was a parody of the Captain from the English version of Macross from the mid 1980s. lol
Comments
I would of love that series so much more if the CIS were not so demonized 99% of the time. Same problem Rebels has as well, in fact Rebels is worse in that regard. I dunno what it is about Star Wars and making it not feel like war. War is literally never so black/white as Star Wars is. Gives a false impression and expectation to young viewers on how the world is, a very bad false impression as well.
I remember the movie prequels. I had high hopes that the CIS would be the good guys on Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith but GOD the characters the CIS characters.... all that lost potential... so lost. Just imagine if the count wasn't bad, but actually gray or good, and that time he had Obi Wan locked up he was truly trying to make Obi Wan see the light... but Obi Wan thinking he was a Sith only believed him as a Liar. Imagine if in Clone Wars (Movie) they spun it that way and then continued that into Revenge of the Sith, it would of made the Count an amazing character. But no... the Count was a sith, he was a bad guy... he was just an expendable bad guy.
It's really odd.
People assume that just because something is cartoon it must be aimed at kids, while anime must be aimed at "mature" people.
Same with non-serious = kid, serious = adult. It doesn't really work like that.
To be honest, if you get ridiculed for watching something that is below your target audience's age range, then you shouldn't feel bad about it and bend over to some idiot who thinks that.
And alot of younger fans make negative comments about the older hand drawn shows they say its dated and unwatchable, the industry is all about pumping out the same story told slightly differently and selling merchandise now and they over use cg.
There was a bbc cartoon documentary called wonderland, im not sure if it was all animated or just some episodes.
It was real audio recordings of therapy that had been animated. Very good worth a look. BBC 2
To be truthful anime hasn't changed much in that regard. The seriousness of productions have been toned down considerably to a point that the slice of life and comedy style anime are #1. During the 1980s and 1990s more story focused productions are the kings of the anime world, with almost Scifi and Fantasy world building to boot to bring to life not just the cast but a new world surrounding them. Though they still make anime like that it is no longer dominating the market.
Turn A Gundam which first aired in 1999 is a great example. They brought in the world designer from bloody Blade Runner! To help with the mechanical, vehicle and environmental design of the anime, it was a brilliant move. Turn A is one of the neatest Mech anime ever made.
That being said we are way off topic now so this will be my last post referring to anime. =P
Bit irritating when you think about it. I think during the 1980s there was a animated revolution, the 1960 and 70s saw most animated TV series as well insanely childish if not just idiotically simple. Something happened during the 1980s not just when it came to animated TV series but animated Films. A lot of people broke away from traditional production companies like Warner Brothers, and Disney and started making their own productions, often of lower quality animation wise but no less amazing.
This kind of continued into the 1990s as well. Even Disney joined the band wagon making a lot of TV shows with good episode story structure, and well thought out characters. Heck Gravity Falls is a recent example of that. Sadly I think I mentioned on another thread one time that it seems since 9/11 the quality of productions went out the window on average. It didn't help that TV channels like FOX ABC started side stepping animated TV series and throwing them out the window enitrely. Combined with the anime boom of the 2000s as anime started becoming more international rather than Japanese local (ie you used to have to be an enthusiast to find anime) now it's everywhere, even President Obama mentioned it in a few speeches about Japan. lol
Though, within the last few years it's gotten quite exciting again. I mean things like that Regular Show, Adventure Time, Steven's Universe, Gravity Falls. It is like animated TV shows in the US are making a come back, and I really hope they do. Then you have more adult oriented programming like Venture Bros, Archer, Rick and Morty, etc etc. I can honestly say within the last 4-5 years American animation has finally made a come back when it comes to TV shows. Though you can argue it's partly because good anime anymore is harder to find and what does exist is far more expensive to invest in, it is no longer cheap and easy to import like it used to be because of the internet and pirating and other combination of reasons.
We already know our animated films are amazing regardless, you can honestly thank Pixar mostly for that though. hehe
I honestly liked WB cartoons and animated films out of all English companies.
WB's Batman and Mystery Incorporated were very serious and you can compare it to a cencored anime.
Heck, a lot of scenes in Mystery Inc were also cencored.
The Spawn cartoon was pretty damn serious. Like when he used his powers to pretend to be another man so he could sleep with his ex-wife whom remarried after his death. Not really a spoiler, that happens pretty quickly(zing). Or The Hunter arch. Or the end of the cop's story. Man, that show was good. I've got to pull out that DVD.
Has no-one mentioned ralph bakshi yet? Google him his films are great wizards was my favorite animated movie when I was a kid.
Really? the only serious cartoons I stumble across are American. I know of gravity falls and we bare bears for example. plus adult swim has many.
Holy crap I've completely forgotten I watched Angela Anaconda when I was a kid. One of the derpiest shows I've seen.
It's a bit old, but if you can stand super hero cartoons check out Teen Titans. It's a mix of the anime style and the kind of style you see in shows like Batman Beyond. It has goofy moments but it also covers a lot of serious themes such as the values of friendship, betrayal, and other things. One of the Titans, Raven, has a lot of serious plot lines and is a tragic character. It's a really good show, unfortunately it ended prematurely like many other good shows.
This discussion has been on my mind for a good MANY years. I like serious cartoons, but at the same time, I like non serious ones as well, just as long as they don't sink into Spongebob or Johnny Test humor (Ugh, can't believe I'm using THEM as a reference).
Nickelodeon's Penguins of Madagascar was not serious but it's humor made me laugh. And I think it did have some serious moments but thankfully they weren't rammed down your throat. In my opinion, the show had a perfect combination of humor, heart and insight.
I still will never forgive CN for the cancellation of Sym-Bionic Titan. Despite Samurai Jack returning, I will see it but only because I'm a fan and like the works of Gendy.
The latest new program on Nick: Miraculous Ladybug I feel is a gem. Despite the usual superhero battle formula, it has heart, and able to blend action and comedy perfectly.
Unfortunately, it comes from France. Maybe all the good, serious programs come from overseas.
And MLP: Friendship is Magic, I believe is serious, it provides good messaging plus ever developing characters. I'm glad it's lasting as long.
To me, quality toons are a dying breed. To the unique ones, I hope will prosper a good long while. And ones I hold in high regard, that are no longer on the air, will stay in my heart forevermore.
Spawn is about as serious and badass as it gets:
The Boondocks hasn't been mentioned once which is upsetting.
Anyone remember HBO's Spawn?
Futurama despite being mostly a comedy has some very serious moments. The episodes that come to mind: Leela's Homeworld, Game of Tones, Jurassic Bark and Luck of the Fryish.
Korra, while not as good as Avatar, was far from a fail. If anything, it was a much more mature and darker show that managed to tackle more serious and current issues.
Gravity Falls could be pretty serious if it needed to be. Just watch Not What He Seems, A Tale of Two Stans, or Into the Bunker if you don't believe me.
Oh fuck. Jurassic Bark. I was NOT emotionally prepared for that episode when I first saw it.
We got Rick and Morty's new season coming up. That's a heavy hitter.
ahem Samurai Jack. Especialy with the new season.
I watched the Clone Wars throughout its run, good stuff. The darker episodes are among the best. The Umbara arc, the Wrong Jedi, anything with Darth Maul or the Nightsisters is all good and pretty damn serious.
I thought the Clone Wars made the Confederacy look better in many regards, with real attempts by some Separatist senators for peace and such. Plus there was the Confederacy vs. the Nightsisters and late the Shadow Collective (at least in the unproduced episodes comics), which was a little black vs. black.
It did have Saw Gerrera who was obviously an extremist, and it had the framing of Yogar Lyste, plus Minister Tua was genuinely a good person despite serving the Empire.
Oh, yeah. "The Boondocks" was all right. Cancelled 2014.
How was it a huge fail??
Wouldn't go that far. Any of the issues TLoK brought up sound darker and more mature on paper, but the way ATLAB handled the issues it aimed to tackle was so spot on that its themes went far deeper.
Looks up reviews and snippits...
... O_o ...
...You're not wrong!
Best cartoon in my opinion was Avatar The Last Airbender. Great story. Great characters. Great ending.
Ooh God I hate Korra dislikers sorry to say that but they talk so much shit on the show jees.
Like everytime with my cousins they hate the show and think I am wrong in every aspect and want me to shut the fuck up -_-
Do I agree on the show could be better YES: they downgraded bending, there isn't enough character development, Season 2 sucks, not enough planning sometimes because they planned only one season because it was supposed to be one season, not enough episodes.
But a huge fail? hell no.
Aren't practically ALL cartoons made in America? Cuz if so, there are PLENTY of serious cartoons.
OMG....Mystery Inc was soo good. I loved that one.
Loved Wing...and Macross(Robotech)
X) My friend's the same way- several people he knows hated the series. Like it or not, however, it exists, so anyone who's able to take something positive from it deserves a nod of appreciation. Good on you for enjoying it!
Macross is a legend in anime honestly. Well at least the original TV series, it drops off badly after that save for some of the OVA short series like Plus and Zero. I grew up with the Robotech version, but I've seen both Japanese/English versions of the original none Robotech version of Macross. Still loved it regardless. I honestly like the Robotech version of the original Macross. I dunno, theme music made the battles more intense in my opinion. Whats tragic? Animated in 1982, and I still think this battle is better than the stuff you see on a lot of modern Gundam TV shows like 00, Age and Seed.
I often use this as a fun "Gundam 00 Season 1 in a Nutshell" example on how bad the battles were on Gundam 00 often... oh gosh where they bad when it came to gundams vs grunts.
Great fun fact for Starcraft Fans. The Battlecruiser unit voice was a parody of the Captain from the English version of Macross from the mid 1980s. lol
Adults don't want kids to know what is going on.
LoL...that's true...the battles are better in older anime...my brother loved Robotech and other anime...I guess it rubbed off on me.
Well full length TV shows yes I would agree, for the most part for at least mech anime.