Role Reversal?
CapnJay
Banned
The Joker was trying to manipulate Bruce and possibly Batman to feud with Riddler. At the end Waller reveals that Riddler was feuding with Dr. Harleen Quinzel. And Riddler got killed. Probably by Joker. So it makes me wonder if TTG is going to flip the script and make Joker her Henchman. Where she's incredibly intelligent and manipulative. Additionally I was going to guess about Tiffany becoming Robin or Batgirl but it seems unlikely.
Tagged:
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
You are on the right track. Telltale could very well reverse the established power dynamic between Harley and Joker by making the latter essentially under the control of the former psychiatrist.
She could be pulling the strings with Joker being her pawn.
He seems to be easily swayed by gestures of affection, Harleen could be taking advantage of him.
That's how I would do things anyway.
Yeah, Joker doesn't seem like the 'leader type' quite yet. He's thrilled to be a part of a group that "lives by their own rules" so it's clear he wants some form of company in the outside world.
That, and he considers Bruce a friend. He likes their trust together.
This Joker does seem a bit meeker that the usual interpretation.
Joker seems to be like a more criminally insane version of someone with Asperger's based on my friend with it , possibly me ( no diagnosis yet but my disability is autism/Asperger's/etc), and what I've read about the condition such as inability to understand social etiquette. Like he desperately wants friends. But doesn't know how to make them
I'm hoping that TellTale doesn't go the route that everyone knows Batman is Bruce Wayne, but it would be an interesting detail that if you decided to go after Mori as Bruce then Harley and John could easily put together than Batman and Bruce are one in the same. After all, he gave Bruce the information and Batman tracks down Riddler with it, but you could maintain your secret if you went along with the interrogation of Eli Knable. I don't think it'll happen, but it'd be interesting.
It's getting a little odd that so many people are able to pin Bruce as the Bat ( Catwoman, Waller, Lady Arkham - determinant - , Gordon nearly can figure it out ). He hides his face, uses a voice modulator, and somehow Superman maintains his secret identity better with a pair of thick black rimmed glasses lol. In all fairness to Waller's case, it is cannon that she's aware of his identity, I just find it a bit comedic. There have been indications that John is aware of Brucie's secrets.
Probably Waller knows because Alfred told her. "Maybe she's changed the direction of the agency" "she's dangerous" "maybe she's reformed it" he jumps to her defense so fast my instincts screamed "NARC"
I would actually love that as a twist on it, as Alfred seems to be very ' don't go it alone ' in this series. It seems like I'm in the minority of getting Alfred as Mourning instead of Vengeful too, so it'd be a different aspect of him to explore as our moral compass.
Manipulate? What are you talking about? John would never manipulate me. We're best friends!
This is also true. I really like how our funeral selfie turned out. .....I should probably get some help.
I thought that Joker definitely knows that Bruce is Batman based on his interaction with Bruce in Arkham, the ending scene of season one and how he interacts with him, helps him. It isn't stated yet, but John Doe seems to know a lot of things about you the moment you arrive in Arkham and he might be smarter than we think.
Ah, interesting.
That would make sense for this character.
Those with Asperger syndrome may be characterized by some of the following, which have been broken down into the four areas mentioned above:
Social interaction
Difficulty interacting with others – social skills
Difficulty making friends
Find it hard to get close to others
Difficulty understanding jokes and metaphors
Concept of fiction is not easily understood
Difficulty looking others directly in the eye
Inappropriate staring
May appear bored in social situations
Tendency to misinterpret or misunderstand gestures and facial expressions
May seem to lack empathy for others
Communication skillsAspergers Checklist
Communicating with others may be impaired
Tendency to speak with a monotone inflection
May speak too formally for the situation
Slang language may not be a part of usual speech
Fixed pitch when talking
May run off on tangents
Tendency to sound incoherent in conversations
Difficulty in picking up on changes in conversation topic
Tendency to speak incessantly about one particular subject
May not allow opportunity for the other person (or people) to say anything
May never really come to a conclusion in any conversation
Physically
Tendency to be clumsy
Oversensitivity to stimuli through the five senses – including light, taste, textures, smells and sound
Unusual facial expressions
Unusual posture
Different gait when walking
Repetitive or restrictive patterns
Overly reliant on fixed routines
Difficulty handling changes to the daily routine
May become overly attached to specific objects
Interests may be limited
Tendency to become obsessive over details
May throw temper tantrums
May become preoccupied with a certain activity
My God I check an alarming number of those boxes. Particularly pertaining to lack of social skills, ouch this one hit very close to home.
That would be awesome. I find the idea of Harley manipulating Joker even creepier than their usual dynamic because it would be a doctor manipulating their mentally ill patient.
He even got me a card! So thoughtful of him!
Would make sense atm but I get the feeling she'll become obsessed with him when he becomes the clown prince of crime.
Assuming she's not the one who turns him into it. Imagine if Joker was severely deranged but we'll meaning and Harley manipulated him into becoming a monster. Playing the old quote "Behind every great man is a greater woman." Like her therapy to make him more assertive more confident etc turns him into the joker of familiarity. Worse still if he becomes the abusive joker because she wanted him to be then they develop a screwed up BDSM thing where she's getting smacked around because she wants to be rather than being smacked around because she fell for an abusive asshole. But I hope not.
I always thought everything we saw from John was an act. A guy who just showed up in Arkham and no one remembers how he ended up there?
To me it seemed like his eagerness to help Bruce was purely manipulation. Wasn't the final scene of season 1 him saying in a much more traditional Joker voice "now let me try!" or something. like that. I've never thought for a second the personality we see him with around Bruce was genuine.
Wow. John seems to have quite a few of those traits. Mostly in the Social Interaction category and some in the fourth paragraph on the bottom.
Given that he'll become the villain later on, this makes so many things tragic now.
That technically he isn't driven to do those things by madness, just that he may have a mental illness/disability that makes him do those things.
Honestly I fully expect joker to fuck over the rest of the pact at some point and take over and that will lead to harleys obsession
I do really like that idea since this version of the Joker seems to feed off of the slightest amount of affection or sympathy. But you never know...
Yeah, and it seems that the card he gave you at the funeral wasn't a usual "Joke" the we'd normally see the original Joker pull. He really seemed to care whether or not you accepted it in that scene.
I like that about him. I want to help him (knowing that he is slightly well-meaning and all that), but I know that's going to lead me down a dark path that the Agency or even Bruce's closest allies won't like.
I hope that when we meet his friends (which will lead to a fight or at least confrontation) if he gets upset that his old friend Bruce and his new pact can't get along that we can be friends but the pact can't. I want to be frenemies with this Joker we're still going to fight but it's not personal.
I can actually see John killing Waller to protect your secret identity.
Oh man... That's dark, it fits with the theme this season of "how far will you go?...." "step into the darkness".
Now that's an interesting decision. Holy...
What if the game remembers if you rebuilt Arkham or funded the GCPD (it does the lady chairperson told me funding the GCPD was profitable. I chose it because a Wayne funding Arkham oh boy) and if you funded The GCPD Villains are basically thrown into a deep dark hole and there's a slight orwellian vibe. . But if you funded Arkham the patients get legitimate therapy and some recover and are able to reintegrate with society. But muggers and such are back on the rise.
That's what I'm wondering, it just pull a save which I'm assuming is the last played save.
It didn't give choice as to which save to use.
So if replayed and never finish with different choices.
Then my silent choices will not be picked...
So far so good, Dent have all his face. Unless the pictures on the papers are Pre burn ones.
Can u see his burn if u got him burn?
I think in several Batman stories the Joker doesn't want Batmans identity known. Joker wouldn't want the fun of it all ruined.
That would be very neat....In a twisted sort of way.
Perhaps John Doe is the one the Agency under Waller made and used much like the Agency before Waller used Riddler and made him as he was, and Harley Quinn once worked for the Agency to develop his psyche before she decided to go rogue. It would explain how he knew all the information about Lady Arkham, how he entered Arkham without anyone remembering how he ended up there, and why he defends Bruce while he's a patient.
Albeit unlikely. I don't think everything we see from John is an act. I don't think he's sane enough to maintain that level of control. I think he genuinely wants Bruce to join him in the darkness, and wants him as a playmate in his own twisted realm.
Or worse... Every personality is genuine. He can be neurotic and insecure and desperate or cold and ruthless and all of the faces are genuine.
Since we're talking about The Joker I thought maybe it's ok if I ask here, does anybody know what happens if you accept to take a selfie? I didn't and I haven't found a single yt video in which the player did (because you know, funeral and all) so do John Doe and Bruce make a peace sign at the camera or something? That would seriously crack me up lol
I'm not even sure if mine did take a selfie, I left the game recording the entire thing while I was away during the funeral scene.
When I was editing it, I don't recall seeing any selfie when I skim through the video...
I think Centerstrain chose take selfie, iirc
U might check he's out.
Haven't released mine yet checking if any flaws first.
About Harley,
Clearly that's who H is on the email.
My question though I'm sure it's totally wrong. The Agency girl checking up on Bruce psychology, she gives me Harley vibes all over...
What was her supposed name?
Putting herself into the fray is the best way to hide or she's one of Harley's psych accomplice.
Either the riddler doesn't know (that makes her super smart to fool him)
or that's why he's relaxed on the ship.
Also if true so the email is a ruse too...
or referring to someone else like maybe John. Someone who she thinks is having differing interests with Bruce.
Which is true in both parts.
Riddler and John are fixated with the bat but could also be part of the plan depending on point of view.
Both are getting attention from the public in their own ways...
A multiple-personality disorder Joker would be an interesting twist...
Too bad we have no proof of that yet. All those emotions seem like they come from the same "person".
You smile for the camera. John shows you the photo. Alfred comments that he doesn't think that flash went unnoticed at the funeral, and people appear unhappy. Later on, when John sends information on the Riddler.. the photo topic comes up again. It put a smile on my face.
EDIT: Sorry, double post.
But if Avesta was an accomplice or a disciple of sorts of Harley, would she really be willing to lose her hearing (or her life, if Riddler did succeed in Batman answering the three questions) in order to save the other agents?
Aw man that sounds amazing! I regret not taking the photo with him now haha. I'm aware John will probably bite the player in the butt eventually, but (for now) he's so charming ^^
I kind of thought that as well before playing the whole episode. Afterwards, I've decided that she is not Harley, seeing as Harleen Quinzel actually exists in this universe. Also, doing the "friend suddenly turned enemy" twist again would be lame and predictable. I'm sure Riddler knew his "friends" personally or at least would have recognized Quinzel from a photograph, seeing as Waller knows who she is and how she looks like. He was smart, I doubt this eluded him.
That's why I edited to say possible accomplice as well.
People she manipulate with or without common interests.
With people who would be associated with people like Harley.
I'm more leaning to yes.
After rewatching, the whole 'she was newly brought in' is making her more suspicious.
Lots of main female villains in the series of it goes on like this.