"Beyond the Wall" Episode Discussion
InGen_Nate_Kenny
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So uh, second to last episode this season.
...pretty good, although I saw most of it coming. Still liked it, especially the snow bear wight part.
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the episode was amazing IMO
I'll never forget Viscerion having quite an interesting role in the game. The choice to pet him or not. I made sure Asher did even though he almost got his hand bitten off. What a sad way to go and now he's a zombie dragon.
I hope that zombie bear wasn't Josera's bear, Shadow.
Great episode overall.
Goddamnit. Was there really any reason at all Benjen could not have hopped on the horse too? I mean, sure he can't go south of the Wall, but he can still take Jon there and leave. The whole thing was over in like 20 seconds and was completely throwaway. Jon was just like "Oh Benjen! Thought you were dead." Benjen's like "Yup. Kay I'm gonna go die now." "Okay, see ya later." "Nice catching up."
Everything else in the episode was fucking great though.
Oh my fuck.... That was probably the worst episode in the whole series. I'm a huge fan of both books and the show and I often defend the show as I understand and agree with most changes, but fuck me, man. That episode was just laughable! It was even worse than "Arya vs. Waif". But I must say that the conversations between Dany and Tyrion and later Jon were really good with decent dialogue and very good acting.
Overall 3/10
The episode was good, but I am supremely annoyed with Sansa and Arya storyline.
Favorite episode of this season so far! Luke really needs to take lessons from Jon about crawling out of frozen lakes.
I loved this episode. It was focused, and took its time building up the tension, which was a welcome change of pace after the fast paced episode 5. I also loved that they gave most of the focus to the mission beyond the Wall, which was obviously the most important thing right now. And of course, the action in this episode was phenomenal, but that's a given with GoT
I'll start with the Winterfell stuff. Well, Littlefinger playing the sisters against each other continues. From what I've heard some people are not liking this development, but to me it makes perfect sense. I mean, tension between Arya and Sansa is to be expected, as long as it doesn't escalate to them actually trying to kill each other, or something crazy like that. Arya is just frustrated watching Sansa in this position, since the last she saw her she was basically buddy buddy with the Lannisters. Of course, Arya doesn't understand what Sansa has actually gone through, and that in turn frustrates Sansa. In the end though, I believe they will come together, and probably off Littlefinger. I'm certainly interested to see where this will go in the finale.
Tyrion's conversation with Dany was basically more of what they've been talking about throughout the season, about how Dany should show mercy to her enemies, just a bit longer conversation this time. It was a nice scene, but not the most memorable part of this episode.
Most of the time was dedicated to the mission beyond the Wall, and I loved that. It really made clear how dangerous and hard this mission was, and it was great to get some interaction between these characters. The Hound is a kind of character who makes any scene awesome, so seeing him interact with characters like Tormund and Gendry was awesome
I loved the bear thing. I mean, it wasn't the best cgi in GoT, but it worked, and I just love the idea that the Night King has undead bears in his army, and probably all kinds of beasts. Speaking of the bear, he ended up being the death of Thoros. Rip crazy drunk red priest. Honestly though, this episode was much lighter on deaths than I expected. Honestly, I expected Beric, Gendry, Jorah and Tormund all to die, but I am surprised and happy to see they survived! Only Thoros and some red shirts were lost... oh, and Viserion 
The whole sequence of them being surrounded on that rock, and army of the dead attacking them was amazing. I was so fucking nervous when the dead were pulling Tormund under the water, I was sure he was a goner. And Jon being determined to kill the Night King was great to see - I wonder if the Valyrian steel would work on him like it works on the other walkers. And Dany coming to rescue wasn't actually something I thought of before the episode, but it was great to see. Viserion dying was less great, but I did see it coming when Dany flew there with all the dragons. As sad as it was, this certainly evens the odds, giving the Night King a very dangerous weapon. Oh, and then Benjen came to save Jon. I imagined that might happen when he didn't get on Drogon's back, but it was awesome nonetheless.
Anyway, this episode was definitely the shift towards the endgame - that being everyone vs. the army of the dead. There is still Cersei and Euron to take care off, because I seriously doubt they'll just help Dany and Jon, but I guess we'll get more answers in the next episode. Overall, I'd say this was the best episode of the season so far. I give 7x06 "Beyond the Wall" 9/10.
Had a friend contact me for the sole reason of expressing his utter disappointment at the episode. So much, I had to check it out even though I hardly ever watch the series.
The way most characters are acting makes no sense. Why did Jon get away from the group? He hadn't been this impulsive and stupid for years now. Capturing a creature to show Cersei the danger is real? Really? That's a plan? Are you kidding me?
Also, is Littlefinger really putting Sansa in danger again, pitting an accomplished assassin against her? And didn't Arya learn anything during all of this time? Is she really getting at odds with Sansa over petty childhood issues? This is so utterly out of character for her, gods... Okay, not any more out of character than Petyr marrying Sansa to a psychopath, but still. He is acting stupid, and to make Petyr act stupid should be a deadly sin.
I wouldn't be so angry if it wasn't for the fact that I enjoy most of the episodes of the game, and unfortunately it is based on the TV series instead of on the books. What the TV series did to Petyr's character makes me sick. I could say "Well at least TellTale has its own Petyr with dear Lord Morgryn", but they terminated Mira's storyline (the only one that remained faithful to what ASOIAF is all about from beginning to end) so I guess I'm out of luck.
I see the series going for a crowd-pleasing ending, to the generic fantasy ending with the bad guys (turned completely flat) dead and the good guys getting married and crowned. Too many stupid decisions being forgiven instead of causing characters to die. Worst part is, with the pace at which we are getting the books, this watered-down generic fantasy ending might be the only ending we get to the story.
This season is by far the worst season of all. It's like watching a bad written fanfic... This whole plan with seeking a wight was very stupid. Why they went seeking one when they could catch some bandit or rapist and kill him beyond the Wall? And this Dany x Jon romance... This is so forced and boring. I mean sure, it's called "A Song of Ice and Fire" but damn... This is the worst romance by far. Remember when GOT was very realistic? Not everyone had a plotarmor and characters were acting smarter than now. And now? Jon attacking the wights just because. They need to show how badass he is... And those teleports... I know it is a Tv show and not everyone want to watch how characters are sitting on their arses for a whole episode but come on. In two days Gendry the Sailor have ran to the Wall, then they send ravens to Dany, then Dany with dragon flew with lightspeed to save the suicide squad. And that only in two days. I know dragons are big and fast but come on... I've read that Westeros is the size of north america how could they flew that fast? I know those problems are pretty stupid but GOT used to be a realistic show. By far my only favorite scenes were Olenna telling Jaime that she killed Joffrey, Drogon burning Lannister army, and Viserion death. And that's it. Nothing more. And btw. Night King should become an Olympian. With this arm he would destroy the competition. Jeez... I'm surprised of how much I've wrote about how I hate this season...Anyways I hope S8 will be better. Oh and I have a question! Did Viserion become a White Walker? Night King were turning Craster babies into White Walkers right? So is Viserion a White Walker now? Sorry for my grammar.
Jon sees Night King close to him, knowing that by killing him he can end the whole threat. Of course he is going to try to kill him, that's not out of character. And well, admittedly the whole plan of making Cersei understand the threat is a bit strange, and I expected them to take care of her first. However, I can understand why they are doing it - continuing the war between Dany and Cersei is just going to kill a lot of people who are needed in the fight against the Night King.
I also don't understand how you think Arya and Sansa would have no tension between them considering their past, and the fact that neither of them know what the other has gone through. Show Littlefinger has admittedly had his questionable moments, but I don't see what in his actions this season is so stupid? He sees Arya as a threat, so of course he doesn't want her getting friendly with Sansa - his key to power.
Anyway, I can see you have a deep hatred for the show, so it's not like I can convince you to like it, just wanted to bring up these points.
Saw it all when it was leaked. Was interesting. I liked it.
"Close" is a huge overstatement. Jon purposefully got away from his group to go after him. But of course, no consequences for heroes anymore, so he survived.
Cersei gave enough proof that she doesn't care for any foreign threat when she killed one of the Great Houses and her main ally, and that was a message big enough for anyone in Westeros to get. The plan is absolute nonsense, and if Cersei suddenly agrees on a cease fire because of it when she didn't even after seeing the dragons, that would be incredibly inconsistent. Wouldn't be the first character inconsistency, as I said.
I never said Arya and Sansa would have no tension, but the absurdity of it is Arya making subtle threats to Sansa and calling her a traitor over something that happened when Sansa was alone, young and stupid, and using the way they behaved towards each other when they were children to validate that. Arya went through a lot of development, and then threw it all out of the window for really petty reasons.
Sansa isn't only his key to power. She is also the daughter of the only woman he loved, and someone that has a strikingly physical resemblance to her. That's why he is so protective of her in the books. That's why Sansa is living a pretty good life in the books (I mean, she could even be a little silly and childish and play with a friend like a kid). Like when he married her to Ramsay (it was the turning point for me in the series, btw), he is putting her life in danger. This isn't something he would do at all, first because he needs her alive, and second because she is Cat's daughter. It would make more sense for Petyr to instigate Sansa against Arya only, but not the other way round. He is risking making Sansa a target to Arya.
And you are wrong, I have no hatred for the show. I just appreciate good storytelling and consistent characters, which unfortunately isn't offered by the show anymore. It did, at a point, back in the first few seasons, but with all the characters that were cut or that had their personality flattened, it went the generic, crowd-appeasing route really fast.
I bet Petyr will die in a very stupid, very out of character way in the series. And he is the last good character in the series, so yeah, you bet that pisses me off, especially if we never get an ending from GRRM himself.
I don't see how Cersei destroying her enemies has anything to do with how she'll react to an army of the dead marching on Westeros? That said, I don't suspect she'll be willing to help Dany and Jon, not without having an alterior motive. This whole "prove Cersei the death are coming" plot is still in the works, so I don't feel like it should be judged yet. I mean, I guess you can say it's stupid of Dany and Jon to trust Cersei, but it's not like they are. They know what she is, and take that into consideration, but at least want to seek out the possibilty of having her armies help them against the real threat. Anyway, as said, the plotline is still going, so I'm holding my final judgement for it. It could turn out to be stupid in the end, but for now I'd say it's at least decent, and makes sense when you think about it.
And turning Arya against Sansa is effectively turning Sansa against Arya. Sansa is disillusioned of LF being a schemer, so she would see right through LF trying to whisper in her ear to turn against Arya, and LF knows that. However, turning Arya against Sansa is much easier for him to do. And like you said, it has already been established with LF marrying Sansa to Bolton's that he is willing to risk her life to reach his goals. It might be different from the books (we'll have to see because a lot can still happen there), but it's consistent with the show. Also, I can't see how this is Arya reverting on her development? If anything she has grown cold and cynical, and she is showing exactly that with suspecting that Sansa wants to steal Jon's power. And just like with the Cersei plot, we are yet to see the how this plotline actually resolves, but I'd be surprised if Arya and Sansa don't come into understanding with each other by the end, possibly by the aid of Bran.
And yeah, there won't be a book ending to this story, as sad as that is.
"Her enemies" to us, who knew what was going on. For the rest of Westeros, they were her allies. They do not have all the information we do. When Tyrion left, they were still allies, and to the public their families stayed as allies until the bitter end. What they know is that she killed the people who could fight alongside her family and keep the Lannisters in power while under threats from all sides. I do not see how Jon and Daenerys would think that showing her an undead creature would make her care enough to make an alliance to fight a threat that is still in the North when (to the best of their knowledge) she kills her own allies even when under immediate threat. It shows that a common threat doesn't scare her into making/keeping alliances. No matter how much I think about it, I do not see how this makes sense, unless Jon and Daenerys both know nothing about Cersei - which is impossible, since Tyrion is with Daenerys.
Turning Arya against Sansa and turning Sansa against Arya are vastly different actions because they are vastly different people. Sansa is a viper of Littlefinger's own creation, while Arya is a ruthless assassin. They deal with threats differently. Sansa would deal with Arya in a way, while Arya would deal with Sansa in a completely different way. You say Sansa would notice that Littlefinger was manipulating her, and maybe that is the case in the show since Littlefinger isn't nearly as cunning as in the books, but the Littlefinger I know would find a way to do it without looking like he was anywhere near them. Because that's how his character is. Or was, originally. Because yeah, I guess Show!Littlefinger is just a completely different character that doesn't care if Sansa dies even though she is essential to his plans to work (so, pretty illogical way of going about things). In the books, he married a false Arya to Ramsay and kept Sansa safely by his side. He is cautious, subtle, he is always two steps ahead. I expected that, after all the backlash regarding his character butchering when he married Sansa to Ramsay, the writers would put him back in line, but I guess not. It is really awful seeing a good character being butchered like he was. It is funny how, even though his character was so badly ruined, he is still better and more interesting to watch than all the "heroes" in the show.
Arya is being childish, not just cold or cynical. She is doing the same thing she did when she was a child, with the petty squabbles with Sansa, only now she threatens her on top of it. So yeah, it reverted her development, it made her childish again. She is (or is supposed to be) a character with more than one layer. Sure, she is way more complicated in the book, she has "Wolf Dreams", she can warg into animals other than her wolf, but she becomes much more mature just during the short time while she is blind in the show too, not only in the book. There was much more to her training than just learning to kill people. Or at least there was supposed to be. But yeah, of course they will come to an understanding. It wouldn't appease the fans much if they didn't. And that's just how predictable the story became. That's why I am saying it is generic and crowd-appeasing now. Because it is.
I'm still hoping GRRM will get his shit together and finish the series, but yeah, seems more unlikely with each month that goes by without any news.
The moment Gendry gave Tormund his hammer was definitely a Telltale choice moment.
Speaking of Telltale, I wonder if they'll have Shadow become the Wight bear that attacked the Justice League in this episode.
They arent the Justice League. They are Jon Snows Kingsguard!
Jesus Christ...what a shit show. This is pretty solid proof that just having the cliff notes of what Martin is going to do...does not make up for the fact that they are missing the artistry that his writing can bring to scenes. Still a good show...but more and more it is proving that some things are way better in book form.
Thanks for resuming my thoughts about this episode in one single comment!
May the Winds of Winter release be soon...
What a huge disappointment this is the new game of thrones nothing makes any sense telaporting is very where Ugh what has happened D&D
1. The winterfell scene my god it didn't make any sense. We know that Sansa wrote this under the pressure from cersei but arya doesn't know fine. But how did the letter teleport from Robb's camp from season1 episode 8 to winterfell? One can say luwin made a copy but to recreate it by the same handwritting? It's ridiculous.
2. Beyond the wall didnt make any sense so when Jon got his wight why didn't he just run with gendry make to eastwatch? The answer is plot. God. And gendry being flash. Raven traveling faster than airplanes and dany flying faster than the Raven.
3. The whole mission beyond the wall is huge huge plot hole. In season 1 the nights watch sent Alister throne to kings landing to show Jeffery and his mother the wight hand that attacked Jon and lord commander Jeor Mormont.
This is the worst episode to date even season 6 episode 8 was better than this. I would rate it 4/10
I absolutely agree what a shitty episode.
The episode was very nice to look at. As always the special effects, both practical and CGI are top notch in this show.
Unfortunately the writing is getting worse. The Arya and Sansa story made little sense. And Benjen Stark appearing out of nowhere felt very cheap, if only he had appeared to save Ned before he died too.
I was disappointed that no one died (Besides Thoros), Dany saved everyone. I think at least half of the "Suicide Squad" should have died, to build up the tension a little, honestly did anyone really believe that a single one of the them was going to die. The dragon death was a nice touch, but why did the Night King have to do it, they already set up the Wight Giants, so why didn't one of the them do it, it just seemed silly to me.
I don't mind the fast travel bullshit, the show threw that stuff out the window last season. I'll wait for GRRM's books to give me the interesting travel dialogue and chapters.
Overall I wasn't disappointed, but nothing stood out as great to me either. At this point the show is becoming overly predictable, and I don't really mind, I can wait for the real story whenever Mr. Martin completes his series, but for now the show is a decent substitute.
5 / 10 - Okay.
Let me get this out of the way, I loved the episode, I thought it was fantastic, but I'm about to rant about Dany and Jon so be warned.
I'm really pissed off about Jon bending the knee. Even when they continually compared Jon to Mance Rayder, I was convinced that he'd never in a million years bend the knee. I thought the dream of a free North might've been important to him but no he just pissed it all away! I know most people are probably all for it because "Yay, team Dany!" but I'm absolutely fuming. The North was finally free, something Robb Stark himself was fighting for and died for and now they serve Daenerys fucking Targaryen! Someone that I refuse to pretend is a good person. Oh and the ship is still disgusting btw, but that's not my problem with the scene so I'll leave that part out.
Two other small things that bothered me. Firstly that Drogo was referred to as a hero. I mean really? I understand that she loved him and all but let's not pretend that he was a good person. And secondly is that Benjen showed up and died. That's pretty self explanatory.
I think Jon staring to like Daenerys and I think they will make a baby, who will be named after Jon's Mouther/Aunt If It's a girl
and then In season 8 Jon and Daenery will died I don't know how but I believe they will died and then a couple years later, Jon and Daenery child is sitting on the Iron throne, I think that's how Game of Thrones will end
I don't think in the end there would be a throne. Plus Danny cant bare children.
I believe D&D want us to believe Danny can't have children, so when Danny does get pregnant It be more of a shook and a surprise.
I really do believe Jon & Danny child Is the prince It Is promise IMO, Idk about book but
A perfect analysis of this episode
Why not? I mean yeah, she misscarried once but It doesn't mean she can't have another child. I don't remember it so well but didn't she miscarried only because of this magic ritual in the tent ? From what I remember her child soul or something like that was transferred to Khal Drogo's body so he could "live". As I see it she can have a baby once again right? Or am I missing something?
I love those guys!
"Hi Itamaaaaaaar!!!!"
The guy on the right looks like Tyrion
I like this specially,Chad Summerfield has more character development than anyone on GOT this season.
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OMG Preston Jacobs. The best a song of ice and fire channel. Bless Chad and fuck emergency awesome lol
As sad as it was that Viserion is dead and is now the Night King's mount/WMD, it is just as sad for another Stark to die.
I thought viseroin's death did have any impact on me yeah the night king has a mount but the audience and I didn't have any connection with viseroin. It would be more impactful if drogon died but of course killing drogon is too complicated for the show.
Call me crazy but I think some thing like what dany saw first in "the house of the undying" will happen. Night king is going to destroy the red keep
And sit on the iron throne for a while
The great war will happen in dragonstone and they will defeat the nightking there (hopefully!!)
Then they will make dragonstone the new capital. And as there already is a throne in there no one will sit on the iron throne any more!
Don't think it will end in a great war it goes against the themes of the story
Mirri Maz Duur said, about Drogo coming back to Dany:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east¹, when the seas go dry² and mountains blow in the wind like leaves³. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
By the end of "A Dance with Dragons":
¹Quentyn Martel ("the Sun's son") raised as a future king (destined to marry Dany) in the west, then died in the east.
²The Dothraki Sea, which is actually a place of green plains, was going dry with the grass dying.
³Pyramids in Meereen are destroyed by Viserion and Rhaegal (I know that's a bit of a stretch but the fandom couldn't find much else).
So what is left is for her to have a child. She gets her period (or at least she thinks she does) in the end of A Dance with Dragons, too, so it is very possible that she is fertile again. It is speculated that Drogon accepting her riding him is "Drogo coming back to her", and that that was a condition for the curse to be broken and for her to be fertile again, not the other way around.
Why did the Night King wait so long to attack Jon and co.? He clearly had ice spears capable of being hurled great distances....plus, isn't he able to produce giant ice storms that could freeze the lake faster?
The only explanation that makes sense to me is that he is somehow able to see the future, and knew that this "trap" would gain him an ice dragon. This makes me wonder about his connection to Bran and the three-eyed raven....
I am convinced Cleganebowl is happening next episode. It will be glorious.
I am hyped.
Not even the Night King's spear can pierce through Jon's plot armour.