The return of Gotham
I find it frustrating to be a fan of this show... it often fails in big ways and small in terms of logic, depiction of women, pacing, character development among many other things. BUT! Every once in a while (okay, one episode per season) it delivers. Last season that episode was "The Gentle Art of Making Enemies".
And it has one of my favorite characters in all of TV: Harvey Bullock. Every time we don't see much of him, the episode suffers. Honestly, I would love an episode seen completely from his POV.
Anyway, anyone besides me glad/excited for the season four premier?
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I don't think it fails nearly that often, I actually enjoy most episodes and characters in the series.
I'm excited because I got really mad at Oswald last season, I was rooting for Edward SO MUCH (I don't care if Isabella was just a plot device, Oswald killing her was probably the most unfair and unwarranted murder in the entire series, Oswald totally deserved what he got), so the ending of that particular plot line last season really pissed me off. Gimme gimme Ed back.
I love Gotham! Especially Nygma. I do watch the other DC based shows like Arrow and The Flash, but Gotham is my favorite.
I wish they didn't burn through so MANY villains. Also, I hated Theo Galavan and the whole Mad Hatter story line. I wish they didn't make Lee so insufferable in season three.
I do love both Nygma and Oswald. Robin Lord Taylor is SO adorable, even if his character sometimes does annoying things. I also think Babs is much more interesting when her whole world does not revolve around Gordon.
Is Fish gone for good? I really don't like her character or that actress.
I got really annoyed last season at the Flash because I really and truly do not care about Iris. She's kind of a boring character. The whole will they or won't they break up was boring. I watch the Arrow and Legends.
Honestly, pretty much the only people that seem to stay dead in this series is the Wayne couple, so I wouldn't count on Fish being gone for good.
I like how Hugo can't catch a break. Every time he tries to run away, some villain grabs him and make him do some mad science for them. I find it kinda funny how many times it happened already.
I absolutely LOVE Oswald too (and Robin, of course), he is really adorable. Edward is my baby, though. And Edward deserved that revenge. Edward did everything for Oz, and he was getting better, he could control himself when with Isabella, I was so happy for him and I wish it could have lasted a little longer (although I had to laugh out loud every time Oz pointed out that Edward and Isabella only knew each other for a week). Oz and Ed's scenes are usually my favourite ones, even if I got super mad that Ed was outsmarted so easily (although that's something particular to the Riddler, he overthinks stuff so much he misses some of the most obvious things).
Has it been good recently?
I lost interest in it halfway through Season 2, but I hear that the stakes and characters have been ramped up quite a bit.
The main problem I have with the show is that even if it's supposed to be this pre-Batman story, it doesn't feel like it. You've got all these villains appearing and not facing Batman, but the GCPD. It's proto-Joker vs. Gordon! It's Mr. Freeze vs. Gordon! It's nameless crazy guy #11 vs. Gordon! It just feels so... disconnected. Am I just expecting the wrong things about this show? Should I just be watching it with the knowledge that it's probably just some alternate take on the Batman lore?
The villains' ages... They're all older people, while Bruce is still pretty young. Was it always like that? Batman facing off against baddies who are 10+ years older than him?
I mostly stopped due to other priorities and a bunch of other shows that were happening at once, but I hope to maybe get back into this someday. Is it worth it?
It is definitely an alternate take on Bats. Only Selina is as old as she should be. They did this weird thing with Ivy so that she aged ten years overnight. It's bizarre. I do like seeing Bruce becoming Batman.
Gotham is one of my favourite series out there. Ratings wise, the season 3 finale is the best episode.. my favourite is probably the season 1 finale, but the season 3 finale was great as well.
I more or less love each character, Oswald, Harvey B., Alfred, Butch and Fish being favourites of mine. Season 2 is probably my favourite, the Galavan arc was amazing in my opinion, so was Azrael as well as the Arkham arc. Mr. Freeze was pretty meh. Political madness such as galavan, Penguin for Mayor and Falcone versus Maroni is what I live for. And once again, judging by the trailer, Oswald will be one of the main focuses of the politics.
I noted that Fish was pretty hated in season 1, but I also noted that many started to like her more, finding her more intriguing the less she was in it. Like season 3, for example
I have to say that that probably is the case for Jerome as well. I have noted that everyone loves Jerome, but I also think that he is perfectly used, a couple of episodes a season.
I think the actor who plays Jerome does a fantastic job - super creepy. I also kind of like that he knows who he is and what he stands, even as I find him despicable... and would not want to be anywhere near him.
They really need to be careful not to overuse Jerome. He is shaping up to be a fantastic Joker, and it would be a shame if they ruined his character by making him show up every episode. We would get used to the mayhem and then it wouldn't have the same effect.
I think Gordon said they would "fix his face" before sending him to Arkham, right? I'm curious to see how his face will look like after being "fixed".
Also, I really like Falcone. I could even sympathize with him, which I didn't expect. Also, I love Zsasz, such a lovable lunatic.
Gotham is glorified Batman fan fiction. I don't think it's worth investing in.
I'm fully aware of its shortcomings, in fact, it has become something of a routine for me to question whether I should continue watching it. Just as I do this, they end up doing something interesting so, as of right now, I'm interested to see where they go with the show.
I think they did a great job with the casting for the most part. Jerome, Harvey Bullock, Riddler, Mad Hatter, Oswald, Selina and Bruce standing out the most for me.
It's unconventional and sometimes nonsensical, but I've never been at the point of saying it is outright terrible. I think some people really can't grasp that it has its own canon. Season 4 does look like they have a clear direction though, (I think they feared that the show would get cancelled), so now they are focusing on Bruce's journey more.
I think I'm done with the CW shows, well, the ones I was keeping up to date with. Maybe I'll catch up with Arrow just for Deathstroke, but the shows have a lot of melodrama which just makes it tedious to sit through at times. My point is that I think Gotham gets more shit than it deserves.
I also love Zsasz. He is oddly sweet for someone so amoral.
I was a touch disappointed that the one we got in the Batman game wasn't more like the Gotham one.,
On the other hand though, I liked his rationalization for why he killed people. To quote Thoreau, "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation" to which Zsasz would add (maybe) and are too pathetic to end their horrible lives. So he does it for them. He's an angel of mercy, really. That's fun. Also quite a contrast to Bruce, who seems to believe in the possibility of redemption of all and the sanctity of life.
I agree with your overall commentary about Gotham and the CW shows. The love lives of both Oliver and Barry can be awfully tedious at time. I am also tired of love triangles.