"Things Bad Begun" and "Sleigh Ride" Episode Discussion
InGen_Nate_Kenny
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This is it, the last two episodes of Season 3 of Fear. It's been a pretty enjoyable run, let's see how it ends up.
Always as comment after, while, after (that was intentional).
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This is pretty good so far. The Proctors are pretty interesting.
This whole damn season has been good actually. And I'm one of those guys that was ready to quit after that bombshell in episode 2
Dear AMC, please don't waste anymore of the limited F-bombs you allow per season on Kim Dickens. Because she's just going to deliver it the same way she delivers all of her lines = with 0% emotion and 0% weight. And adding the mack daddy of curse words into her dialogue doesn't make her lackluster performance any less lackluster. Thank you.
I'm surprised they even have them. Still though, I agree, there should be better placed.
So many bodies, so many. I was really bummed about Troy. Since absolutely hating him in the Season 3 premiere, I'd come to actually like him and want him to be better---inevitably that won't be happening.
The whole dam set-up was pretty damn (heh) great. Lots of tension. Strand, one of my favorite characters, eh, he's just a slimeball.
I am very curious as to see where this will go. Perhaps I'll make a Season 3 thread, but damn, good job Fear for really making me care.
Also, this episode kind of reminded me of Game of Thrones Season 7. Sort of? Not really. You guys who saw probably know what I'm referring to.
Jesus fucking christ that was amazing, hell even the whole of season 3 was good.
Damn that ending, are Alycia and Strand still alive?
Nothing can kill Strand. He's like invincible.
I recommend they would have shown us their deaths if they died. Doing it off-screen, unless they intend to do it immediately when Season 4 premieres, makes next-to-no sense story-wise. One does simply kill off big TV show characters off-screen.
Yeah this season was really good. Fear TWD really found its groove. I still would've traded Madison for Travis, but other than that I had no complaints. I'm a little wary about the switch from Erickson to Gimple though....
Yeah, I think AMC agreed to let them get away with 1 or 2 per Season. I think Nick also dropped one when he first saw the herd that destroyed the Ranch. Apparently they're going to start allowing TWD Vanilla the same deal (after 7 Seasons right?) But hey, its progress.
My beloved Troy.
Ugh, I hate Madison.
Just when I thought Troy would survive for the next season....
I hope Procter John sticks around for a bit since I feel the show kills the bad guys off too quick
I absolutely love this show. I always have since day one, and this finale really felt like something else.
The highlight for me was Madison. Going into her psych with those dream sequences, the Troy confrontation, Nick going against her and that damn last scene...
I loved Troy by the way. I'm sad about him, but I absolutely loved his death, how... unceremonious it was. It felt right. For him and Madison.
I was devastated when Madison killed Troy. Yes, he's did wrong, but Madison isn't innocent either and she was a killer before the apocalypse. And most of the carnage lying in their wake was due to Madison trying to manipulate situations for no other reason other than her controlling nature; doing it for the sake of Nick and Alicia is a cop out justification so Madison doesn't have to admit to herself that she's no different than someone like Troy. I see Madison as every bit psychotic as Troy. She's just more manipulative and in control of her emotions.
Given the way the ending turned out, they almost had to get rid of Troy, but he was such a captivating character and he and Nick had such good chemistry. I was hoping that Troy would had been there for a while longer.
Most of my issues with the character deaths this season were that I felt like all of them were done a little too prematurely.
I get that Troy needed to go eventually, but in that moment Troy was not a threat to them. He didn't need to be killed in that moment and certainly not my Madison of all people. And not after he confided in Madison moments before the murder. Not to mention, Troy is the reason why those at the dam were tipped off.
Every episode I wish someone would shoot her in the face, but the plot armour is thick with this one.
Madison is the type of leader I would expect Shane to be, although I loved Jane. I think my problem with Madison is that she uses her kids to justify all the killing she does, but Alicia and Nick haven't needed her protection since before they arrived at the hotel in S2.
also, I feel like they try to portray Madison as a good person and she's not. She's manipulative and selfish. If they portrayed her as an anti hero, I would probably like her more.
Plus, I think the dynamic in FTWD would be better if the story focused on Nick and Alicia, a brother-sister dynamic as opposed to another paternal dynamic.
Troy's death was a parallel to Jeremiah's. Think about it. Just as Jeremiah is about to say to Madison that she's "exactly like him" you can see it in her that she was going to kill him had Nick not done it for her. This time around, just as Troy's about to say that Madison would've done the exact same thing he did, Madison doesn't hesitate, Nick isn't there to do it for her, she does it herself in an insanely cold blooded way. I don't think this was a coincidence. I believe this to be a parallel the writers always intended to have. Just as these two men are about to call Madison out for being just like them she gets them killed. Maybe it symbolizes that yes, Madison is in some way like them, but she doesn't want to admit it.
Her intentions and feelings toward Troy are made clear at his moment: he was a means to an end to her, ever since the beginning. Make you wonder if she ever really cared. She let him walk away by the beginning of the second half and it resulted on the Ranch getting destroyed. She wasn't doing the same "mistake" again. But does this logic really add up?
What's so fascinating about this is that Madison was aware of Troy's psychopathic behavior ever since... ever. He was butchering people when they first met, but she never cared as long as he was useful to her. What changed now? He was no direct threat to her or her kids yet she did kill him. This was her literally becoming just like him. Killing on whim.
While I do believe her past actions and killings were indeed made in function of her kids' safety, this one certainly wasn't as you said.
I don't believe the writers are portraying Madison as a good person at all. Good people don't kill their parents in cold blood. Good people don't enter people's homes to get them killed. Good people don't kill others in cold blood who are no direct threat to them. Good people are not shown alone, amidst a graveyard, getting buried by the people they killed.
And I don't claim Madison is a "good person". You'll never see me do such thing. But that's what honestly make me so into this show. A lead that is not a selfless, brave hero. A lead that is, ultimately, amoral in every single way, and with her murdering Troy, you could even argue that she's actively been immoral. I love that about Madison's character, it makes her so much more interesting.
I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of characters this season were killed before reaching full potential. They could've done more with Ofelia, Troy, Jeremiah, Jake, Travis... but this, honestly, made the season feel so dark and truly unsafe for everyone. The world of the walking dead is supposed to be merciless, brutal, harsh... and this season honestly did that. So many people died. It felt real. Something I in all honestly never got from the main show or comics. Don't ask me why but I was never able to connect to those.
I agree that Troy's death is reminiscent of Jeremiah's, but that's what what i don't like about Madison. That she uses her children to justify her behavior. She tells Nick that she killed Troy for him, which Nick wholeheartedly rejects.
She uses her children to justify her behavior b/c she doesn't want to accept that that is who she is. A cold blooded murderer.
Madison says she does these things to protect her kids. Well, Alicia hasn't needed her since they were on the Abigail, and Nick chose to leave. I don't think Madison is a good leader and i feel that she causes more harm than good. The show would be much better off without her.
I love that Alicia and Nick are not afraid to call her out on that.
Yup. Both series will get to drop an F bomb twice each season.
Boo, just boo. Did not like that 2 parter, and am officially done. I tried. I really did. But they're showing no signs of changing.
First of all. Madison was right to kill Troy. She should've did it the 1st time. So really Jake's and everyone at the ranch who died's blood is on her hands. Because she's stupid. Troy was deeply disturbed, and needed to be put down. Not sure what she and Nick saw in him.
2nd, Madison is the worst. I used to really like her. She was my favorite character in S1. But come on, holding on to ranch so tight she might lose it, then actually loses it. Saying she only wants to do right by her family, but does the exact opposite. I can't really explain it but I don't like her anymore.
3rd, not entirely on the characters. The entire scene with Strand and Madison drinking, was terrible. The dream sequences of Madison, terrible. We all know that's her biggest fear. Why not show, idk, her brutally murdering them? It's her biggest fear that her children will die. But she'll end up killing them herself, with the choices she's making. The ending made me want to throw up. Is Nick really dead? How can you kill your best character? What happened with Alicia and Strand? Why didn't Procter kill Nick after he blew up the dam? He's just all of sudden accepting of his death?
Finally, RIP Lola. I really liked her. She had all that power and kept a steady head.
What's next season? Madison? No thanks. This is not TWD, imo. It's like an HBO drama with the occasional zombie. They started off really good, now it's a mess.
To @InGen_Nate_Kenny, sorry for shitting on your threads these past couple weeks. Couldn't help it. I promise to be better next week for All Out War.
No problem bruh. Not everyone likes the show, I feel ya. Excited for Season 8!