I think Christa is the more likely candidate. You can determinately have Clem talk about her throughout the entirety of season 2, like telling the cabin group/Kenny about what happened to her as well as asking Matthew/Edith if they've encountered her. You can tell by Clem's reactions that she still really cares for Christa and hopes she is okay. Plus the last time we saw her there was a choice to help her or leave her to the bandits.
Lilly has been gone for an extremely long time and only had a few references in s2. She is also a more controversial character so a lot of players would want to immediately kill her if they ran into her, making a happy reunion more out of character for their Clementine.
Yeah I think it's really down to Christa or Lilly and I don't know how I feel about either lol. A lot of people really didn't like Lilly but… more then some did so that could be another Kenny situation like in season 2. Christa didn't seem to like Clementine because of Omid's death so if they reunited you'd think she still would hold animosity for Clementine. I don't even know if either of those characters returning would be a good thing. Christa would almost have to be an antagonist. Lilly too even to an extent.
In episode 4 she was mainly trying to scare him off and to keep him away from the group, in episode 5 she isn't exactly the one with the whole "he's just a kid!" attitude, she's mainly being practical about him and his usefulness. She agrees to follow him because of the possibility that he actually has food and supplies in his house, otherwise, she would've probably advocated for just leaving him on the road. Later when Kenny is beating him and she goes "How is beating a kid to death gonna help anyone!" it's again more practicality than anything else really. I think we can agree that beating Arvo was achieving nothing, regardless of whether he deserved it or not. In the end, it actually led to Bonnie and Mike bailing and to Arvo shooting Clem.
Why did Jane's attitude towards Arvo go from "If I see you again you'll regret it" to "He's a defenseless kid wtf Kenny", especially considering that he DID show up again to rob and potentially kill the group?
Fair enough since they did truly need food and shelter, although whether Arvo's half-built house and couple cans of chilli were worthwhile is questionable. Also I'm skeptical about whether Kenny beating Arvo was the reason Mike/Bonnie left, seems more like an excuse to steal from a group with children in it. If you recall Kenny could tell Mike and Bonnie were scheming about something back in episode 4.
In episode 4 she was mainly trying to scare him off and to keep him away from the group, in episode 5 she isn't exactly the one with the who… morele "he's just a kid!" attitude, she's mainly being practical about him and his usefulness. She agrees to follow him because of the possibility that he actually has food and supplies in his house, otherwise, she would've probably advocated for just leaving him on the road. Later when Kenny is beating him and she goes "How is beating a kid to death gonna help anyone!" it's again more practicality than anything else really. I think we can agree that beating Arvo was achieving nothing, regardless of whether he deserved it or not. In the end, it actually led to Bonnie and Mike bailing and to Arvo shooting Clem.
To give some credit here, Amid the Ruins had a very riveting premise: The Howe's Ski Cabin Group has dealt with Carver and was making their escape from Howe's Hardware, but an unexpected snafu has caused them to panic and run, separating much of them from each other. Clementine must now recollect her lost and broken group members, scout the area of refuge, and ensure a position of safety as Rebecca enters labor.
It basically follows up a built up story arc with a story about recovery and uses the character's current mental states and conflicting priorities to stir up some lingering tension, making it [what should be] a ensemble character-driven story as well.
For my money, there are three major, overarching problems with the episode: Jane, the determinant factors, and The Sarah Situation.
400 days had a good mix of humor and dark moments.
But for a finale, I would prefer all-out dark. Too many finales seem to be goofy as hell for some reason.
It's a number of things:
1. She realized she fucked up when she heard the gunshots and is taking [very loose] responsibility for sticking him up in first place.
2. They were trying to go with the idea that she's making an effort to change her ways for Clementine.
3. She didn't actually plan on doing anything to him specifically and even idea of the theft was something that nearly drives her tears.
4. He lost his sister in the shootout, which Jane obviously relates to and determinately acknowledges the severity of the circumstances if Clementine brings it up.
5. The simple fact that Arvo is the one who was providing them with what they needed at that point and yet Kenny escalates in attacking him--while he's tied up.
6. It's an easy of way to vilify how unstable Kenny is getting when someone whose killed their own family/allies looks down on how needlessly aggressive he's being.
Why did Jane's attitude towards Arvo go from "If I see you again you'll regret it" to "He's a defenseless kid wtf Kenny", especially considering that he DID show up again to rob and potentially kill the group?
Also I'm skeptical about whether Kenny beating Arvo was the reason Mike/Bonnie left, seems more like an excuse to steal from a group with children in it.
I want you to read what you just said.
If you recall Kenny could tell Mike and Bonnie were scheming about something back in episode 4.
Which is honestly just Kenny being Kenny, if you ask me. Well that or a loose holdover from the original idea behind Mike.
It made no sense for him to be suspicious of them when they clearly put more heart into the escape plan and looking out for the group than Jane. Plus, what the heck would they even be plotting at that point?
Fair enough since they did truly need food and shelter, although whether Arvo's half-built house and couple cans of chilli were worthwhile i… mores questionable. Also I'm skeptical about whether Kenny beating Arvo was the reason Mike/Bonnie left, seems more like an excuse to steal from a group with children in it. If you recall Kenny could tell Mike and Bonnie were scheming about something back in episode 4.
Depends... she calls you out on it in episode 5 and forces you to go down and do the walker guts thing so you can become even with her, but she forces you to go down either way. Then again it was out of the kindness of Javier’s heart if he shot Conrad, if he didn’t then yeah Clem will force him to go down while Javier is reluctant.
Who would be plotting at that point? Bonnie was a chronic liar who had already betrayed them. Mike was an unknown who was originally supposed to be one of the bandits that ambushed Christa. It is totally in character for them to be plotting and scheming.
The reason Kenny thought they were plotting was because they were very quick to separate from the group, as well as the fact that nobody could really trust them yet. Oh, and he was fucking right about them lol. Kenny being Kenny, I guess.
Also I'm skeptical about whether Kenny beating Arvo was the reason Mike/Bonnie left, seems more like an excuse to steal from a group with ch… moreildren in it.
I want you to read what you just said.
If you recall Kenny could tell Mike and Bonnie were scheming about something back in episode 4.
Which is honestly just Kenny being Kenny, if you ask me. Well that or a loose holdover from the original idea behind Mike.
It made no sense for him to be suspicious of them when they clearly put more heart into the escape plan and looking out for the group than Jane. Plus, what the heck would they even be plotting at that point?
Bonnie was a chronic liar who had already betrayed them.
Bonnie is someone who clearly has a tendency to make wrong choices that she barely gels with. And in this case, it's worth noting that she made the right choice to leave with Luke's group after she saw what Carver was doing to Kenny and had already been considering it before hand. On different occasions, even.
Not really sure where the notion of her being a chronic liar comes in, admittedly. Like, I'm sure there's something you can pull that I've missed, but honestly Bonnie always struck me as just being in denial and perhaps a poor liar.
The reason Kenny thought they were plotting was because they were very quick to separate from the group
They separate from the group because they were doing something that could help out the group. Same as Jane in this instance.
Plus, kinda hard for a pretty little pregnant lady going into labor, an exhausted farmboy with injured ribs, a freshly retraumatized Spanish woman-child who nearly had her life thrown away, and a yelling brain damaged redneck who already aggressive on top of being broken from losing loved ones to reliably do the venturing out in their conditions.
Oh, and he was fucking right about them lol. Kenny being Kenny, I guess.
He was "fucking right" about them because he pulled suspicion out of his ass one day and then insisted on doing things to alienate them another. While Bonnie is a little debatable, Mike straight up came up with their plan to defect specifically because of Kenny.
Kinda hard to give credit for seeing a problem when you're the cause of the problem.
Who would be plotting at that point? Bonnie was a chronic liar who had already betrayed them. Mike was an unknown who was originally suppo… moresed to be one of the bandits that ambushed Christa. It is totally in character for them to be plotting and scheming.
The reason Kenny thought they were plotting was because they were very quick to separate from the group, as well as the fact that nobody could really trust them yet. Oh, and he was fucking right about them lol. Kenny being Kenny, I guess.
Clementine's Family
Clementine (S1): Optimist/Conflicted
Clementine (S2): Realist/Conflicted
Clementine (ANF): Cynic with/without Jane's/no influence or Optimist/Cynic with Luke's influence, then Realist/Optimist in From the Gallows
Ed:
Diana:
Chet: Apathetic
Officer Andre Mitchell: Realist?
Greene Family
Shawn Greene: Realist/Optimist
Hershel Greene: Realist/Cynic
Kenny's Family
Captain Kenny Sr. (S1): Optimist then Optimist/Cynic
Captain Kenny Sr. (S2): Cynic/Optimist
Kenny Duck Jr.: Apathetic
Katjaa the Veterinarian: Realist
Motel Group
Carley: Realist or Realist/Cynic
Glenn: Optimist
Lilly the Receptionist: Realist/Cynic
Larry the Veteran: Cynic
Doug: Apathetic or Apathetic/Realist
Irene: Optimist
Stone Mountain High School
Ben Paul: Conflicted then Conflicted/Cynic
Mark: Realist/Optimist
St. John’s Dairy
Andrew St. John: Realist
Danny St. John: Cynic or Apathetic/Cynic
Brenda St. John: Optimist/Conflicted
Crawford
Molly: Cynic
Dr. Logan: Realist/Apathetic
Anna Corea: Apathetic or Apathetic/Optimist
Cancer Support Group
Dr. Vernon: Optimist/Realist
Brie: Cynic/Realist
Joyce: Realist
Boyd: Realist/Optimist
Clive: Cynic
Campman Family
Mr. Campman/The Stranger: Apathetic/Optimist
Campfire Group
Vince: Realist or Realist/Optimist
Wyatt: Realist/Cynic
Russell: Cynic/Optimist
Bonnie: Optimist/Conflicted then Conflicted/Cynic after Luke is lost
Shel: Realist/Optimist
Becca: Cynic
Prison Bus
Justin the Prisoner: Cynic
Danny the Prisoner: Optimist
Officer Bennett: Realist or Realist/Apathetic
Deputy Clyde: Conflicted
Marcus Crabtree: Cynic?
Jerry: Realist or Realist/Apathetic
Nate: Apathetic
Eddie: Optimist
Walt’s Family
Walt: Realist/Apathetic
Jean: Realist?
Leland’s Family
Leland: Optimist
Dee: Cynic
Gil’s Pitstop Group
Roman: Realist
Stephanie: Optimist
Roberto: Apathetic?
Jr. Scavenger Michelle: Realist/Cynic
North Carolina Scavengers
Victor: Realist
“Ralph” the Scavenger: Realist?
Winston the Scavenger: Cynic
Cabin Group
Luke: Optimist/Conflicted
Peter Joseph Randall: Realist
Nick Randall: Cynic then Cynic/Optimist after Clementine's determinate pep talk and/or Walter deciding to save him
Rebecca: Realist/Cynic and then Realist/Optimist
Alvin: Optimist/Conflicted or Realist/Conflicted
Dr. Carlos: Realist
Sarah: Optimist/Apathetic or Optimist/Conflicted then Optimist/Cynic or even Apathetic/Cynic after Carlos' death
Alvin Rebecca Carver Jr.: Apathetic
Howe's Hardware
William Bill Carver: Cynic or Cynic/Apathetic
Troy: Apathetic/Cynic
Tavia: Realist/Optimist then Apathetic/Realist
Rajeev/Reggie: Optimist
Hank: Realist
Johnny: Realist?
Mike the Prisoner: Realist/Optimist
Jane: Cynic/Realist
Russian Group
Arvo: Conflicted then possibly Conflicted/Cynic after Natasha's shot
Natasha/Maud: Realist
Buricko: Cynic
Vitali: Realist/Cynic
Randy’s Family
Randy: Cynic
Patricia: Realist/Optimist
Gill: Realist?
Wellington Ohio
Gatekeeper Edith: Optimist/Realist then Conflicted/Realist
García Family
#12 Javier Garcia Realist/Optimist
Head of Security David Garcia Cynic/Optimist
Gabriel Garcia Cynic/Optimist then Conflicted/Optimist after Mariana's death
Katie Dominguez-Garcia Conflicted
Mariana Garcia Apathetic/Realist
Hector Garcia Realist?
Mrs. Yaya García Realist/Optimist?
Salvador Rafael Garcia Realist
The New Frontier(Underlings)
Lieutenant Max Realist/Cynic in Part 1 then Optimist/Conflicted or Realist/Conflicted
Lonnie Realist
Lieutenant Badger Apathetic or even Apathetic/Cynic
Lieutenant Ava Realist/Optimist
Gate Guard Fern Realist? then Realist/Cynic after Ida is lost
Trucker Driver Rufus Cynic
Prescott
Tripp Realist then maybe Realist/Optimist
Francine Optimist
Conrad the Bartender Optimist/Cynic then Cynic after Francine is killed then Optimist/Apathetic after his Heel Realization
Dealer Eli Apathetic or Apathetic/Cynic
Nurse Eleanor Optimist or Optimist/Realist
Hilltop Colony
Paul "jesus" Monroe Apathetic/Optimist
TNF Richmond Council
Diplomacy Leader Joan Optimist/Realist or even Optimist/Cynic
Rations Leader Clinton Barnes Realist or Realist/Optimist
Head of Medicine Dr. Paul Lingard Apathetic/Cynic
Okay, finally got my list done:
Everett Family
Professor Lee Everett: Realist
Clementine's Family
Clementine (S1): Optimist/Conflict… moreed
Clementine (S2): Realist/Conflicted
Clementine (ANF): Cynic with/without Jane's/no influence or Optimist/Cynic with Luke's influence, then Realist/Optimist in From the Gallows
Ed:
Diana:
Chet: Apathetic
Officer Andre Mitchell: Realist?
Greene Family
Shawn Greene: Realist/Optimist
Hershel Greene: Realist/Cynic
Kenny's Family
Captain Kenny Sr. (S1): Optimist then Optimist/Cynic
Captain Kenny Sr. (S2): Cynic/Optimist
Kenny Duck Jr.: Apathetic
Katjaa the Veterinarian: Realist
Motel Group
Carley: Realist or Realist/Cynic
Glenn: Optimist
Lilly the Receptionist: Realist/Cynic
Larry the Veteran: Cynic
Doug: Apathetic or Apathetic/Realist
Irene: Optimist
Stone Mountain High School
Ben Paul: Conflicted then Conflicted/Cynic
Mark: Realist/Optimist
St. John’s Dairy
Andr… [view original content]
It depends on how many decided to stay. If it’s a bunch of them, mainly everyone besides Bonnie, then they stayed at the camp for a few nights before discovering a “safe haven” not too far from their previous campsite. So, they’re alive.
If it’s just one or two people, then they’re dead.
Are certain 400 Days characters more likely to survive if they stayed behind than others?
Yeah. It’s Vince and, surprisingly, Russell. Vince looks like he can handle himself well and Russell was on his own when you first play as him.
In your headcanon, what do you think happened to the 400 Days survivors who stayed behind at the campsite?
Are certain 400 Days characters more likely to survive if they stayed behind than others?
I had the group split up. Bonnie, Wyatt, and Russell went with Tavia. Vince, Shel, and Becca stayed at the campsite. I really like how it worked out because in my game Shel also killed Stephanie, so with Shel and Vince we had the two survivors who I knew could make the tough choices. Plus it reminded me of a little surrogate family akin to Lee, Clem, and Carley.
What do you think of their odds? I also never considered Russell's survival potential but you are right.
It depends on how many decided to stay. If it’s a bunch of them, mainly everyone besides Bonnie, then they stayed at the camp for a few nigh… morets before discovering a “safe haven” not too far from their previous campsite. So, they’re alive.
If it’s just one or two people, then they’re dead.
Are certain 400 Days characters more likely to survive if they stayed behind than others?
Yeah. It’s Vince and, surprisingly, Russell. Vince looks like he can handle himself well and Russell was on his own when you first play as him.
Since i honestly didn't put too much thought into the 1st one(partly because it's more or less "canon" that they all go to Howe's), I'll answer the 2nd.
Out of all of them, only Vince and unfortunately maybe Wyatt really strike me as being likely to survive in the wild and/or on their own for any decent amount of time.
Russell was more or less a member of Steve's gang that he realized he couldn't handle being in before he left in favor of going to his grandma's house and while Shel & Becca have received some routine that would give, they're still not used to being self-sufficient in the wild where Roman could very hunt them down.
In your headcanon, what do you think happened to the 400 Days survivors who stayed behind at the campsite?
Are certain 400 Days characters more likely to survive if they stayed behind than others?
I'm not too sure about Wyatt, he seems pretty incapable. And in my game where Eddie ditched him, Wyatt said he would have died if Vince hadn't saved him.
Also in my game Shel killed Stephanie, so Roman never had a reason to hunt them down.
Since i honestly didn't put too much thought into the 1st one(partly because it's more or less "canon" that they all go to Howe's), I'll ans… morewer the 2nd.
Out of all of them, only Vince and unfortunately maybe Wyatt really strike me as being likely to survive in the wild and/or on their own for any decent amount of time.
Russell was more or less a member of Steve's gang that he realized he couldn't handle being in before he left in favor of going to his grandma's house and while Shel & Becca have received some routine that would give, they're still not used to being self-sufficient in the wild where Roman could very hunt them down.
I'm not too sure about Wyatt, he seems pretty incapable. And in my game where Eddie ditched him, Wyatt said he would have died if Vince hadn't saved him.
I know, hence the maybe. I would've just said Vince otherwise, but wanted to take into account the unknown number of days Wyatt was on his own.
Also in my game Shel killed Stephanie, so Roman never had a reason to hunt them down.
Honestly, I'm left wondering what the fuck happened in that instance to land her and Becca in the Campfire Group.
At least in Russell's case, I have a pretty decent/fitting idea of what may have happened.
I'm not too sure about Wyatt, he seems pretty incapable. And in my game where Eddie ditched him, Wyatt said he would have died if Vince hadn't saved him.
Also in my game Shel killed Stephanie, so Roman never had a reason to hunt them down.
Ikr? Really wish we knew what happened to Roman and the remnants of the cancer patients in the scenario where Shel and Becca stayed. I speculate that Joyce/Boyd died and Clive turned bandit along with Roman, and that Gil's got overrun by walkers somehow. Wish we knew for certain.
I'm not too sure about Wyatt, he seems pretty incapable. And in my game where Eddie ditched him, Wyatt said he would have died if Vince hadn… more't saved him.
I know, hence the maybe. I would've just said Vince otherwise, but wanted to take into account the unknown number of days Wyatt was on his own.
Also in my game Shel killed Stephanie, so Roman never had a reason to hunt them down.
Honestly, I'm left wondering what the fuck happened in that instance to land her and Becca in the Campfire Group.
At least in Russell's case, I have a pretty decent/fitting idea of what may have happened.
I speculate that Joyce/Boyd died and Clive turned scavenger along with Roman
Holy shit, I literally just thought about that possibility myself!
And honestly, it sounds lot better than my previous half-assumption that Roman just betrayed them for no reason and moved on to possibly found the North Carolina Scavengers.
Ikr? Really wish we knew what happened to Roman and the remnants of the cancer patients in the scenario where Shel and Becca stayed. I spe… moreculate that Joyce/Boyd died and Clive turned bandit along with Roman, and that Gil's got overrun by walkers somehow. Wish we knew for certain.
It seems pretty likely when you think about it, seeing how ruthless Clive had become by 400 Days. He wanted to kill the intruder, he is on board with killing Stephanie and is shown guarding her, and he shows regret at not shooting Lee if you chose to threaten them. He seems a good candidate for Roman's right hand. We don't see his corpse at the riverbank so either he died beforehand or escaped the massacre somehow.
I speculate that Joyce/Boyd died and Clive turned scavenger along with Roman
Holy shit, I literally just thought about that possibil… moreity myself!
And honestly, it sounds lot better than my previous half-assumption that Roman just betrayed them for no reason and moved on to possibly found the North Carolina Scavengers.
It seems pretty likely when you think about it, seeing how ruthless Clive had become by 400 Days. He wanted to kill the intruder, he is on … moreboard with killing Stephanie and is shown guarding her, and he shows regret at not shooting Lee if you chose to threaten them. He seems a good candidate for Roman's right hand. We don't see his corpse at the riverbank so either he died beforehand or escaped the massacre somehow.
I literally just thought of this: In Ties that Bind Part 1, Max is noticeably more aggressive and antagonistic than he is in the rest of the installment, gut-punching Javier after briefly rationalizing how he could be innocent, incessantly searching for signs of any company he might/does have with clear hostility, and even potentially shooting Javier on the spot before this if he hesitates to open the door. However, as he's about leave the trailer to follow up on the search, he lets it slip that the reason he's so distrustful and paranoid about Javier's presence is because they were previously screwed over under similar circumstances.
Is it possible that these people(rather, person) he's referring to could've had something to do with Clementine?
I highly doubt it. Sounds like they were fucked over pretty hard by another group, not just a girl who stole one syringe of medicine. This is reinforced when David says that they lost their orchard base due to trusting the wrong people.
I literally just thought of this: In Ties that Bind Part 1, Max is noticeably more aggressive and antagonistic than he is in the rest of the… more installment, gut-punching Javier after briefly rationalizing how he could be innocent, incessantly searching for signs of any company he might/does have with clear hostility, and even potentially shooting Javier on the spot before this if he hesitates to open the door. However, as he's about leave the trailer to follow up on the search, he lets it slip that the reason he's so distrustful and paranoid about Javier's presence is because they were previously screwed over under similar circumstances.
Is it possible that these people(rather, person) he's referring to could've had something to do with Clementine?
Sounds like they were fucked over pretty hard by another group, not just a girl who stole one syringe of medicine.
I know that. I'm just considering the possibilities of that being a bigger deal rather than just an un-elaborated incident. Plus, I got the implication Clementine had been causing them trouble on occasion after she left.
Heck, her introduction is her cutting down a tree(somehow...) to run Rufus off the road so she could rob/jack him.
This is reinforced when David says that they lost their orchard base due to trusting the wrong people.
Huh. You know, I never made the connection to Shenandoah River, but you might just have a point. Max was implied to be one of David's older friends.
I highly doubt it. Sounds like they were fucked over pretty hard by another group, not just a girl who stole one syringe of medicine. This i… mores reinforced when David says that they lost their orchard base due to trusting the wrong people.
I would love more details on what happened.
Comments
I think Christa is the more likely candidate. You can determinately have Clem talk about her throughout the entirety of season 2, like telling the cabin group/Kenny about what happened to her as well as asking Matthew/Edith if they've encountered her. You can tell by Clem's reactions that she still really cares for Christa and hopes she is okay. Plus the last time we saw her there was a choice to help her or leave her to the bandits.
Lilly has been gone for an extremely long time and only had a few references in s2. She is also a more controversial character so a lot of players would want to immediately kill her if they ran into her, making a happy reunion more out of character for their Clementine.
You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you actually think she will give you the answer to that question.
@thewalkingclementine I'm gonna take @DabigRG 's cue here.
knowingsmile
In episode 4 she was mainly trying to scare him off and to keep him away from the group, in episode 5 she isn't exactly the one with the whole "he's just a kid!" attitude, she's mainly being practical about him and his usefulness. She agrees to follow him because of the possibility that he actually has food and supplies in his house, otherwise, she would've probably advocated for just leaving him on the road. Later when Kenny is beating him and she goes "How is beating a kid to death gonna help anyone!" it's again more practicality than anything else really. I think we can agree that beating Arvo was achieving nothing, regardless of whether he deserved it or not. In the end, it actually led to Bonnie and Mike bailing and to Arvo shooting Clem.
Fair enough since they did truly need food and shelter, although whether Arvo's half-built house and couple cans of chilli were worthwhile is questionable. Also I'm skeptical about whether Kenny beating Arvo was the reason Mike/Bonnie left, seems more like an excuse to steal from a group with children in it. If you recall Kenny could tell Mike and Bonnie were scheming about something back in episode 4.
To give some credit here, Amid the Ruins had a very riveting premise: The Howe's Ski Cabin Group has dealt with Carver and was making their escape from Howe's Hardware, but an unexpected snafu has caused them to panic and run, separating much of them from each other. Clementine must now recollect her lost and broken group members, scout the area of refuge, and ensure a position of safety as Rebecca enters labor.
It basically follows up a built up story arc with a story about recovery and uses the character's current mental states and conflicting priorities to stir up some lingering tension, making it [what should be] a ensemble character-driven story as well.
For my money, there are three major, overarching problems with the episode: Jane, the determinant factors, and The Sarah Situation.
Two out of six seems a bit meager for "Too many."
Okay.
Part of the issue is that I capitalized the first letter of my email when joining here when other websites tend to lowercase it by default.
It's a number of things:
1. She realized she fucked up when she heard the gunshots and is taking [very loose] responsibility for sticking him up in first place.
2. They were trying to go with the idea that she's making an effort to change her ways for Clementine.
3. She didn't actually plan on doing anything to him specifically and even idea of the theft was something that nearly drives her tears.
4. He lost his sister in the shootout, which Jane obviously relates to and determinately acknowledges the severity of the circumstances if Clementine brings it up.
5. The simple fact that Arvo is the one who was providing them with what they needed at that point and yet Kenny escalates in attacking him--while he's tied up.
6. It's an easy of way to vilify how unstable Kenny is getting when someone whose killed their own family/allies looks down on how needlessly aggressive he's being.
I want you to read what you just said.
Which is honestly just Kenny being Kenny, if you ask me. Well that or a loose holdover from the original idea behind Mike.
It made no sense for him to be suspicious of them when they clearly put more heart into the escape plan and looking out for the group than Jane. Plus, what the heck would they even be plotting at that point?
No. And neither will Gabe for matter, as far as I can tell. In fact, she and Conrad barely even acknowledge each other after that episode.
That determinant plot point and the limited consequence to it is honestly my one major issue with Above the Law.
Depends... she calls you out on it in episode 5 and forces you to go down and do the walker guts thing so you can become even with her, but she forces you to go down either way. Then again it was out of the kindness of Javier’s heart if he shot Conrad, if he didn’t then yeah Clem will force him to go down while Javier is reluctant.
Who would be plotting at that point? Bonnie was a chronic liar who had already betrayed them. Mike was an unknown who was originally supposed to be one of the bandits that ambushed Christa. It is totally in character for them to be plotting and scheming.
The reason Kenny thought they were plotting was because they were very quick to separate from the group, as well as the fact that nobody could really trust them yet. Oh, and he was fucking right about them lol. Kenny being Kenny, I guess.
Bonnie is someone who clearly has a tendency to make wrong choices that she barely gels with. And in this case, it's worth noting that she made the right choice to leave with Luke's group after she saw what Carver was doing to Kenny and had already been considering it before hand. On different occasions, even.
Not really sure where the notion of her being a chronic liar comes in, admittedly. Like, I'm sure there's something you can pull that I've missed, but honestly Bonnie always struck me as just being in denial and perhaps a poor liar.
They separate from the group because they were doing something that could help out the group. Same as Jane in this instance.
Plus, kinda hard for a pretty little pregnant lady going into labor, an exhausted farmboy with injured ribs, a freshly retraumatized Spanish woman-child who nearly had her life thrown away, and a yelling brain damaged redneck who already aggressive on top of being broken from losing loved ones to reliably do the venturing out in their conditions.
He was "fucking right" about them because he pulled suspicion out of his ass one day and then insisted on doing things to alienate them another. While Bonnie is a little debatable, Mike straight up came up with their plan to defect specifically because of Kenny.
Kinda hard to give credit for seeing a problem when you're the cause of the problem.
Which one/two of the Four/Five Philosophies do you think each character operates by?
Clementine: Cynical (to those she doesn't trust)/Conflicted (to those she can)
Javier: Optimist (pretty obvious, given the dialogue in Ties that bind Pt.2)
Paul (Jesus): Realist
Gabe: Optimist/Conflicted (With some sass)
Mariana: Realist/Optimist
Kate: Optimist/Cynical (She's just weird, in general)
David: Realist/Cynical
Conrad: Apathetic/Cynical?
Joan: Cynical/Realist?
Clint: Conflicted/Realist
Eleanor: Optimist/Realist (Before Thicker than water), Cynical/Optimist (After)
Tripp: Realist/Conflicted
Ava: Realist/Optimist
Max: Conflicted
Lonnie: Realist/Apathetic
Rufus: Realist/Apathetic
Fern: Conflicted/Apathetic
Badger: Cynical
Dr. Lingard: Apathetic
Congrats for still being on staff! I hope things work out!
Okay, finally got my list done:
Everett Family
Professor Lee Everett: Realist
Clementine's Family
Clementine (S1): Optimist/Conflicted
Clementine (S2): Realist/Conflicted
Clementine (ANF): Cynic with/without Jane's/no influence or Optimist/Cynic with Luke's influence, then Realist/Optimist in From the Gallows
Ed:
Diana:
Chet: Apathetic
Officer Andre Mitchell: Realist?
Greene Family
Shawn Greene: Realist/Optimist
Hershel Greene: Realist/Cynic
Kenny's Family
Captain Kenny Sr. (S1): Optimist then Optimist/Cynic
Captain Kenny Sr. (S2): Cynic/Optimist
Kenny Duck Jr.: Apathetic
Katjaa the Veterinarian: Realist
Motel Group
Carley: Realist or Realist/Cynic
Glenn: Optimist
Lilly the Receptionist: Realist/Cynic
Larry the Veteran: Cynic
Doug: Apathetic or Apathetic/Realist
Irene: Optimist
Stone Mountain High School
Ben Paul: Conflicted then Conflicted/Cynic
Mark: Realist/Optimist
St. John’s Dairy
Andrew St. John: Realist
Danny St. John: Cynic or Apathetic/Cynic
Brenda St. John: Optimist/Conflicted
Save’s Lots Bandits
Bandit Leader Jake: Realist/Cynic
Gary: Cynic
Jolene: Cynic/Apathetic
Beatrice: Apathetic?
Christa: Cynic/Realist
Christa (S2): Cynic
Omid: Optimist
Charles/Chuck: Realist
Crawford
Molly: Cynic
Dr. Logan: Realist/Apathetic
Anna Corea: Apathetic or Apathetic/Optimist
Cancer Support Group
Dr. Vernon: Optimist/Realist
Brie: Cynic/Realist
Joyce: Realist
Boyd: Realist/Optimist
Clive: Cynic
Campman Family
Mr. Campman/The Stranger: Apathetic/Optimist
Campfire Group
Vince: Realist or Realist/Optimist
Wyatt: Realist/Cynic
Russell: Cynic/Optimist
Bonnie: Optimist/Conflicted then Conflicted/Cynic after Luke is lost
Shel: Realist/Optimist
Becca: Cynic
Prison Bus
Justin the Prisoner: Cynic
Danny the Prisoner: Optimist
Officer Bennett: Realist or Realist/Apathetic
Deputy Clyde: Conflicted
Marcus Crabtree: Cynic?
Jerry: Realist or Realist/Apathetic
Nate: Apathetic
Eddie: Optimist
Walt’s Family
Walt: Realist/Apathetic
Jean: Realist?
Leland’s Family
Leland: Optimist
Dee: Cynic
Gil’s Pitstop Group
Roman: Realist
Stephanie: Optimist
Roberto: Apathetic?
Jr. Scavenger Michelle: Realist/Cynic
North Carolina Scavengers
Victor: Realist
“Ralph” the Scavenger: Realist?
Winston the Scavenger: Cynic
Cabin Group
Luke: Optimist/Conflicted
Peter Joseph Randall: Realist
Nick Randall: Cynic then Cynic/Optimist after Clementine's determinate pep talk and/or Walter deciding to save him
Rebecca: Realist/Cynic and then Realist/Optimist
Alvin: Optimist/Conflicted or Realist/Conflicted
Dr. Carlos: Realist
Sarah: Optimist/Apathetic or Optimist/Conflicted then Optimist/Cynic or even Apathetic/Cynic after Carlos' death
Alvin Rebecca Carver Jr.: Apathetic
Moonstar Lodge
Matthew: Optimist
Walter: Optimist
Sarita: Optimist/Realist
Howe's Hardware
William Bill Carver: Cynic or Cynic/Apathetic
Troy: Apathetic/Cynic
Tavia: Realist/Optimist then Apathetic/Realist
Rajeev/Reggie: Optimist
Hank: Realist
Johnny: Realist?
Mike the Prisoner: Realist/Optimist
Jane: Cynic/Realist
Russian Group
Arvo: Conflicted then possibly Conflicted/Cynic after Natasha's shot
Natasha/Maud: Realist
Buricko: Cynic
Vitali: Realist/Cynic
Randy’s Family
Randy: Cynic
Patricia: Realist/Optimist
Gill: Realist?
Wellington Ohio
Gatekeeper Edith: Optimist/Realist then Conflicted/Realist
García Family
#12 Javier Garcia Realist/Optimist
Head of Security David Garcia Cynic/Optimist
Gabriel Garcia Cynic/Optimist then Conflicted/Optimist after Mariana's death
Katie Dominguez-Garcia Conflicted
Mariana Garcia Apathetic/Realist
Hector Garcia Realist?
Mrs. Yaya García Realist/Optimist?
Salvador Rafael Garcia Realist
The New Frontier(Underlings)
Lieutenant Max Realist/Cynic in Part 1 then Optimist/Conflicted or Realist/Conflicted
Lonnie Realist
Lieutenant Badger Apathetic or even Apathetic/Cynic
Lieutenant Ava Realist/Optimist
Gate Guard Fern Realist? then Realist/Cynic after Ida is lost
Trucker Driver Rufus Cynic
Prescott
Tripp Realist then maybe Realist/Optimist
Francine Optimist
Conrad the Bartender Optimist/Cynic then Cynic after Francine is killed then Optimist/Apathetic after his Heel Realization
Dealer Eli Apathetic or Apathetic/Cynic
Nurse Eleanor Optimist or Optimist/Realist
Hilltop Colony
Paul "jesus" Monroe Apathetic/Optimist
TNF Richmond Council
Diplomacy Leader Joan Optimist/Realist or even Optimist/Cynic
Rations Leader Clinton Barnes Realist or Realist/Optimist
Head of Medicine Dr. Paul Lingard Apathetic/Cynic
Baseball Kid: Cynic
What’s the number 12 for when you mentioned Javier?
It's his jersey and player number.
It's 25, not 12.
I thought it was something around 20 too
Both of us are right, then.
Oh, was it? Well shoot.
Where the fuck did I get 12 from, then?
I don't know, you tell me.
In your headcanon, what do you think happened to the 400 Days survivors who stayed behind at the campsite?
Are certain 400 Days characters more likely to survive if they stayed behind than others?
It depends on how many decided to stay. If it’s a bunch of them, mainly everyone besides Bonnie, then they stayed at the camp for a few nights before discovering a “safe haven” not too far from their previous campsite. So, they’re alive.
If it’s just one or two people, then they’re dead.
Yeah. It’s Vince and, surprisingly, Russell. Vince looks like he can handle himself well and Russell was on his own when you first play as him.
I had the group split up. Bonnie, Wyatt, and Russell went with Tavia. Vince, Shel, and Becca stayed at the campsite. I really like how it worked out because in my game Shel also killed Stephanie, so with Shel and Vince we had the two survivors who I knew could make the tough choices. Plus it reminded me of a little surrogate family akin to Lee, Clem, and Carley.
What do you think of their odds? I also never considered Russell's survival potential but you are right.
Since i honestly didn't put too much thought into the 1st one(partly because it's more or less "canon" that they all go to Howe's), I'll answer the 2nd.
Out of all of them, only Vince and unfortunately maybe Wyatt really strike me as being likely to survive in the wild and/or on their own for any decent amount of time.
Russell was more or less a member of Steve's gang that he realized he couldn't handle being in before he left in favor of going to his grandma's house and while Shel & Becca have received some routine that would give, they're still not used to being self-sufficient in the wild where Roman could very hunt them down.
I'm not too sure about Wyatt, he seems pretty incapable. And in my game where Eddie ditched him, Wyatt said he would have died if Vince hadn't saved him.
Also in my game Shel killed Stephanie, so Roman never had a reason to hunt them down.
I know, hence the maybe. I would've just said Vince otherwise, but wanted to take into account the unknown number of days Wyatt was on his own.
Honestly, I'm left wondering what the fuck happened in that instance to land her and Becca in the Campfire Group.
At least in Russell's case, I have a pretty decent/fitting idea of what may have happened.
Ikr? Really wish we knew what happened to Roman and the remnants of the cancer patients in the scenario where Shel and Becca stayed. I speculate that Joyce/Boyd died and Clive turned bandit along with Roman, and that Gil's got overrun by walkers somehow. Wish we knew for certain.
Holy shit, I literally just thought about that possibility myself!
And honestly, it sounds lot better than my previous half-assumption that Roman just betrayed them for no reason and moved on to possibly found the North Carolina Scavengers.
It seems pretty likely when you think about it, seeing how ruthless Clive had become by 400 Days. He wanted to kill the intruder, he is on board with killing Stephanie and is shown guarding her, and he shows regret at not shooting Lee if you chose to threaten them. He seems a good candidate for Roman's right hand. We don't see his corpse at the riverbank so either he died beforehand or escaped the massacre somehow.
Sonansu.
Huh?
I literally just thought of this: In Ties that Bind Part 1, Max is noticeably more aggressive and antagonistic than he is in the rest of the installment, gut-punching Javier after briefly rationalizing how he could be innocent, incessantly searching for signs of any company he might/does have with clear hostility, and even potentially shooting Javier on the spot before this if he hesitates to open the door. However, as he's about leave the trailer to follow up on the search, he lets it slip that the reason he's so distrustful and paranoid about Javier's presence is because they were previously screwed over under similar circumstances.
Is it possible that these people(rather, person) he's referring to could've had something to do with Clementine?
That's how it looks, suh.
I highly doubt it. Sounds like they were fucked over pretty hard by another group, not just a girl who stole one syringe of medicine. This is reinforced when David says that they lost their orchard base due to trusting the wrong people.
I would love more details on what happened.
I know that. I'm just considering the possibilities of that being a bigger deal rather than just an un-elaborated incident. Plus, I got the implication Clementine had been causing them trouble on occasion after she left.
Heck, her introduction is her cutting down a tree(somehow...) to run Rufus off the road so she could rob/jack him.
Huh. You know, I never made the connection to Shenandoah River, but you might just have a point. Max was implied to be one of David's older friends.