Eh, honestly I don't like the sound of it. Sounds even more lackluster than whats in the game.
How do they have a little girl get shot right through the brain in full view of the camera, and have it leave such a little impact?
HOW?
Just conjecture on my part, but I thought it'd be cruel irony if the bullet Javier unintentionally used to wound Lonnie ended up striking Ma… moreriana and she ended up wandering off before dying.
Regardless, she'd end up getting separated from the other two at some point, much like in the game proper. Unfortunately, Javier would come across her walker after returning to the junkyard and has to deal with her.
This was allegedly a completely animated scene that the developers decided against in favor of what we got for the most part.(Which I suspected way back may have been the intention of the random New Frontier member if you stayed with Clementine.)
RIGHT?! The game went on as if nothing happened. There wasn't a sad atmosphere or mourning over Mari aftewards--NOTHING!
The 3rd flashback should have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
What a waste. She had potential.
Eh, honestly I don't like the sound of it. Sounds even more lackluster than whats in the game.
How do they have a little girl get shot right through the brain in full view of the camera, and have it leave such a little impact?
HOW?
Eh, honestly I don't like the sound of it. Sounds even more lackluster than whats in the game.
How do they have a little girl get shot right through the brain in full view of the camera, and have it leave such a little impact?
HOW?
Oh, you know I have to disagree.
Though while we're on the subject, some of the flashbacks could stand to be moved to a place where they're more fitting with their respective episodes.
It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier,
Personally, I kinda wish they had used either Part 2 or From the Gallows' flashback space to give her more screentime. Now, I more than realize she had zero real relevance to the story to begin with, but at least those spaces would sorta fit the bill of justifying her existence given that Gabe/Kate's actions are partially driven by their regret at not being able to save her.
and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important.
Probably because she was no one important for the most part. The one character that would've actually benefited some more from her existence character-wise just has her never come up again, for some inexplicable reason.
Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
Which is especially glaring considering most of his screentime came after several rewrites, ones that happened after she was made more nominally relevant to him.
RIGHT?! The game went on as if nothing happened. There wasn't a sad atmosphere or mourning over Mari aftewards--NOTHING!
The 3rd flashback … moreshould have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
What a waste. She had potential.
How have you been, Louche? It's been a while!
So which is worse: a bad/"bad" idea simply being an actual thing or a bad idea that is completely unnecessary in terms of what's actually done with it?
How was she supposed to get shot by Javier? She was under the fricking hatch.
Haven't you considered her getting bit while trying to hide as a scenario? You sadistic monster
Just conjecture on my part, but I thought it'd be cruel irony if the bullet Javier unintentionally used to wound Lonnie ended up striking Ma… moreriana and she ended up wandering off before dying.
Regardless, she'd end up getting separated from the other two at some point, much like in the game proper. Unfortunately, Javier would come across her walker after returning to the junkyard and has to deal with her.
This was allegedly a completely animated scene that the developers decided against in favor of what we got for the most part.(Which I suspected way back may have been the intention of the random New Frontier member if you stayed with Clementine.)
How was she supposed to get shot by Javier? She was under the fricking hatch.
I know, it makes no sense. But it was just a thought.
Haven't you considered her getting bit while trying to hide as a scenario?
Honestly, no, not really. I always imagined her getting shot at some point, possibly from Badger sniping her(not literally) when she ran off at Kate and Gabe's discretion.
Plus, as I've stated once before, I've honestly tired of walker related deaths, especially after Season 2.5; I don't really care for zombies in general to begin with. That's one area ANF definitely improved on, at least.
How was she supposed to get shot by Javier? She was under the fricking hatch.
Haven't you considered her getting bit while trying to hide as a scenario? You sadistic monster
Yeah, I know. I am not surprised.
Don't get me wrong, I like this flashback.
Though while we're on the subject, some of the flashbacks could stand to be moved to a place where they're more fitting with their respective episodes.
For example?
Personally, I kinda wish they had used either Part 2 or From the Gallows' flashback space to give her more screentime.
That would have been great, yes. But I don't see how this would worked in From The Gallows.
I think that the flashback in Episode 4 should have been different. I get that it wanted to show Javier and David's relationship(the bromance... sniff so beautiful.. NOT!) but I feel like it should have been about Javier and The Garcias on the road(after they leave the house) - how they manage, how they find food, have they met someone during that time, etc. In it, we could have seen how the family members interact with each other.
If I remember correctly Shelly Shenoy(Kate's VA) said that Kate went through a big change(developed as a person) and that we were supposed to see how she goes through that change. I guess she means how Episode 3!Kate(Episode 1Preview!Kate) turns into Present!Kate. Kate in Above The Law, as we see, is a naive and scared woman who is hesitant to kill. But in the present she is more laid-back and handles hard situations. Javier can say that she has been through worse than swinging across a helicopter blade. I would have loved to see this transition.
This leads to the conclusion that she was going to be a special character. Seriously, she could have been one of the best female characters in TWD universe... oh well. At one point, way before Episode 3 came out, I used to think that she was going to be Clementine's role model - dumb, I know. I also thought that they would interact a lot.
The one character that would've actually benefited some more from her existence character-wise just has her never come up again, for some inexplicable reason.
Gabe?
Which is especially glaring considering most of his screentime came after several rewrites, ones that happened after she was made more nominally relevant to him.
But if I were him, I would have turned Richmond upside down if I found out though.
Yeah, the writers clearly favoured him over everyone else.. It makes sense that only he gets development and screentime.
The 3rd flashback should have been about Mariana.
Oh, you know I have to disagree.
Though while we're on the subject, some of the f… morelashbacks could stand to be moved to a place where they're more fitting with their respective episodes.
It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier,
Personally, I kinda wish they had used either Part 2 or From the Gallows' flashback space to give her more screentime. Now, I more than realize she had zero real relevance to the story to begin with, but at least those spaces would sorta fit the bill of justifying her existence given that Gabe/Kate's actions are partially driven by their regret at not being able to save her.
and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important.
Probably because she was no one important for the most part. The one character that would've actually benefited some more from her existence character-wi… [view original content]
Well, I suggested Part 2 would've been a place where a flashback featuring Mariana would've been appropriate. Part of the allowance for this thought is that, when you really think about it, what [crucial] information about the characters involved is given that and what is the relevance to what actually happens within the episode?
Generally speaking, Divided We Fall's flashback establishes that Kate started developing feelings for Javier because his easygoing attitude borne from the freedom involved with being able to travel and indulge was tempting compared to having to deal with David's intolerant fundamentalism. This, in turn, sets up a so-called "love triangle" between the three when David returns at the end of the episode.
Do you see any problem involved with that?
That would have been great, yes. But I don't see how this would worked in From The Gallows.
It probably wouldn't have, but tbf, Mariana being a noteworthy presence in any flashback could just be nominally relevant fan-service regardless unless used cleverly.
However, I used From the Gallows because, honestly, does that flashback add that much to the greater installment? Aside from seeing Rafael alive, seeing his attitude towards his illness/death, and one allusion to him not getting along with his brother, that is.
Some last minute spiritual tension for the somewhat contrived Javier vs David fight, that's what.
I think that the flashback in Episode 4 should have been different. I get that it wanted to show Javier and David's relationship(the bromance... sniff so beautiful.. NOT!) but I feel like it should have been about Javier and The Garcias on the road(after they leave the house) - how they manage, how they find food, have they met someone during that time, etc. In it, we could have seen how the family members interact with each other.
See, what pisses me off about that flashback is that it actually added some contrasted correlation between Kate and David in terms of what they are and how they ultimately respond to it. Which would've been perfect material for when the two actually had to interact with each other after so long.
It also adds more characterization for Javier, both in his relationship to David(without being attacked, that is) and in his views about responsibility regarding one's family, so there's that too.
However, I do agree that there should've been a flashback/sequence showing the Garcia-Van Group actually being a group of survivors before/as they really fell into their routine. You could've had the combos be mixed up from the three we actually see in the present.
If I remember correctly Shelly Shenoy(Kate's VA) said that Kate went through a big change(developed as a person) and that we were supposed to see how she goes through that change. I guess she means how Episode 3!Kate(Episode 1Preview!Kate) turns into Present!Kate. Kate in Above The Law, as we see, is a naive and scared woman who is hesitant to kill. But in the present she is more laid-back and handles hard situations. Javier can say that she has been through worse than swinging across a helicopter blade. I would have loved to see this transition.
That sounds about right. She was clearly intended to be a main character in her right, even being on the cover of the damn game.
This leads to the conclusion that she was going to be a special character. Seriously, she could have been one of the best female characters in TWD universe... oh well.
Yeah, no kidding. While Gabe definitely had seeds being planted while biding his time, Kate was easily my favorite new character in Part 1 primarily because there seemed to be a lot of breadth to her character.
At one point, way before Episode 3 came out, I used to think that she was going to be Clementine's role model - dumb, I know. I also thought that they would interact a lot.
Huh. That's an interesting conclusion to come up with so early, considering the commonality involved in what we got among each of them. How did you reach it?
As I've said before, I assumed Kate would be something of a Lilly/Jane to Javier long before we saw David as a "Kenny Carver" analogue--even thinking she was Jane at first glance.
Gabe?
Gabe.
But if I were him, I would have turned Richmond upside down if I found out though.
Yeah, that's what you'd expect. But to be fair, he was actually trying to play it tactfully at the time--a rarity.
Yeah, the writers clearly favoured him over everyone else.. It makes sense that only he gets development and screentime.
To be fair, Conrad and Gabe also got a good amount, with the latter [arguably?] being the most developed character of the installment.
But yeah, there was clearly some degree of favoritism involved, particularly in the last two episodes.
Oh, you know I have to disagree.
Yeah, I know. I am not surprised.
Don't get me wrong, I like this flashback.
Though while we… more're on the subject, some of the flashbacks could stand to be moved to a place where they're more fitting with their respective episodes.
For example?
Personally, I kinda wish they had used either Part 2 or From the Gallows' flashback space to give her more screentime.
That would have been great, yes. But I don't see how this would worked in From The Gallows.
I think that the flashback in Episode 4 should have been different. I get that it wanted to show Javier and David's relationship(the bromance... sniff so beautiful.. NOT!) but I feel like it should have been about Javier and The Garcias on the road(after they leave the house) - how they manage, how they find food, have they met someone during that time, etc. In it, we could have seen how the family members interact with each oth… [view original content]
Eh, honestly I don't like the sound of it. Sounds even more lackluster than whats in the game.
I'm honestly not sure how I feel abou… moret that in general.
How do they have a little girl get shot right through the brain in full view of the camera, and have it leave such a little impact? HOW?
By having said little girl be such a shallow plot device and then ultimately render her to be a completely unnecessary one.
The 3rd flashback should have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
Oh my god, I know right? That's what I thought it was going to be when it started, but nope it was just more Gabe whining and honestly a pretty pointless scene.
Jesus Christ, they really dropped the ball. If that episode had opened up with a flashback of Javier and Mariana having some poignant interaction, just imagine how much more impact that baseball bat to Badger's skull would have?
Supposedly Mariana was originally Hector's kid, so they were too lazy to rewrite the characters to care more I guess. Geez.
RIGHT?! The game went on as if nothing happened. There wasn't a sad atmosphere or mourning over Mari aftewards--NOTHING!
The 3rd flashback … moreshould have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
What a waste. She had potential.
How have you been, Louche? It's been a while!
That's what I thought it was going to be when it started, but nope it was just more Gabe whining and honestly a pretty pointless scene.
Oh dude, I disagree. Aside from showing the day the Garcia Van Group left, it also showed that Kate wasn't always on top of her game(not that we got to see much of that anyway), gives an example of what Gabe lost when the outbreak happened in Drew(which could've added towards his later desire to meet new people, now that I think about), showed that Gabe had a sense of determination even then(which I guess could be seen as a characterization issue, but it's not really important), very briefly hinted that Kate still retained some feelings towards David, and established the [actual?]original source of Gabe's initial resentment towards Kate.
It was also there to contrast the fact that they find David alive in the present day, but who cares about that.
If that episode had opened up with a flashback of Javier and Mariana having some poignant interaction, just imagine how much more impact that baseball bat to Badger's skull would have?
Huh. Waddya know, an actual reason to put a flashback there.
Supposedly Mariana was originally Hector's kid, so they were too lazy to rewrite the characters to care more I guess. Geez.
Well, mostly David, since the change was almost certainly made to benefit him the most. Javier was a Lee-analogue on the topic, so it's kinda default with him, while Gabe and especially Kate(oddly enough) are considerably effected and motivated by her death.
But yeah, while I actually kinda liked her presence in that flashback despite not saying much, that was indeed a crucial oddity that served to explain why so out of theme/place.
The 3rd flashback should have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her speci… moreal. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
Oh my god, I know right? That's what I thought it was going to be when it started, but nope it was just more Gabe whining and honestly a pretty pointless scene.
Jesus Christ, they really dropped the ball. If that episode had opened up with a flashback of Javier and Mariana having some poignant interaction, just imagine how much more impact that baseball bat to Badger's skull would have?
Supposedly Mariana was originally Hector's kid, so they were too lazy to rewrite the characters to care more I guess. Geez.
What happened to Clem’s photo of Lee? Last time we see it she places it in her pocket but it never shows up again after that, could she still have it going into S4?
What happened to Clem’s photo of Lee? Last time we see it she places it in her pocket but it never shows up again after that, could she still have it going into S4?
It was either ruined when she was swept away in the river or it was taken by Carver and never retrieved. So if it showed up it would be a huge plot hole.
What happened to Clem’s photo of Lee? Last time we see it she places it in her pocket but it never shows up again after that, could she still have it going into S4?
Not the impression I had. I very much got the feeling that it just restated things we already got or were implied about Gabe. Also his voice actor failed very hard at trying to sound younger and that made it even harder to sit through.
On Mariana's death, Gabe was upset for a bit in episode 2 and then I don't remember him bringing her up again? I think Kate mentions her like twice.
That's what I thought it was going to be when it started, but nope it was just more Gabe whining and honestly a pretty pointless scene.
… more
Oh dude, I disagree. Aside from showing the day the Garcia Van Group left, it also showed that Kate wasn't always on top of her game(not that we got to see much of that anyway), gives an example of what Gabe lost when the outbreak happened in Drew(which could've added towards his later desire to meet new people, now that I think about), showed that Gabe had a sense of determination even then(which I guess could be seen as a characterization issue, but it's not really important), very briefly hinted that Kate still retained some feelings towards David, and established the [actual?]original source of Gabe's initial resentment towards Kate.
It was also there to contrast the fact that they find David alive in the present day, but who cares about that.
If that episode had opened up with a flashback … [view original content]
I very much got the feeling that it just restated things we already got or were implied about Gabe.
Well, aside from Drew and the thing with David, I suppose that's true.
On Mariana's death, Gabe was upset for a bit in episode 2 and then I don't remember him bringing her up again?
Yeah, I just brought that up with Fergie.
If there was any Garcia/character that Marianna's existence should've had a clear influence on, it's Gabe. And yet, I remember actually having to ask if she came up anywhere/period when Thicker Than Water came out. Which reinstated my apathy regarding the subject.
I think Kate mentions her like twice.
I wanna say about four times total throughout the installment: In the back of Eleanor's new car, when she and Gabe have conflicting approaches regarding David and Joan, when seeing the injured in Eleanor's hallway, and at the memorial wall in the Teamup to Save Richmond ending.
Not the impression I had. I very much got the feeling that it just restated things we already got or were implied about Gabe. Also his voice… more actor failed very hard at trying to sound younger and that made it even harder to sit through.
On Mariana's death, Gabe was upset for a bit in episode 2 and then I don't remember him bringing her up again? I think Kate mentions her like twice.
When Kenny flips out in the area they were working in, he at one point accuses Mike of being "one of them." Any ideas as to what exactly he meant by that?
When Kenny flips out in the area they were working in, he at one point accuses Mike of being "one of them." Any ideas as to what exactly he meant by that?
As messed up as this is to say, I think the latter two were probably taken to the kitchen.
The walkers of Officer Bennett, Jean, and determinately Walt are a bit up in the air.
As for Omid and Michelle, maybe, but I kinda doubt it.
The only one I see being buried for sure is Deputy Clyde's walker and that's assuming a. he didn't determinately crawl off somewhere else, and b. there was even a shovel available to use.
what [crucial] information about the characters involved is given that and what is the relevance to what actually happens within the episode?
...None to the both questions.
Generally speaking, Divided We Fall's flashback establishes that Kate started developing feelings for Javier because his easygoing attitude borne from the freedom involved with being able to travel and indulge was tempting compared to having to deal with David's intolerant fundamentalism. This, in turn, sets up a so-called "love triangle" between the three when David returns at the end of the episode.
Do you see any problem involved with that?
Yes, because that "love triangle" pretty much became the centre of the story WHEN we are supposed to be focusing on more important stuff!! Like - who is Javier really and what has he been through, Clementine and Ava's history, where is AJ, why did Clementine not trust Eleanor, how did the Prescott trio form, why did Tripp kill people in the first years of the apocalypse, who was Max before the apocalypse and how did he end up in TNF, where is Max, our group's backstories, why did Kate marry David - these things.
Also
Divided We Fall
I see what you did there.
However, I used From the Gallows because, honestly, does that flashback add that much to the greater installment? Aside from seeing Rafael alive, seeing his attitude towards his illness/death, and one allusion to him not getting along with his brother, that is.
Some last minute spiritual tension for the somewhat contrived Javier vs David fight, that's what.
Well, I liked that we got to see the father alive. I like him. He never implied that he and Hector don't get along.
That sounds about right. She was clearly intended to be a main character in her right, even being on the cover of the damn game.
She looks pretty cool on it, not gonna lie. Looks kinda different on it, but it's probably just the hair.
Yeah, no kidding. While Gabe definitely had seeds being planted while biding his time, Kate was easily my favorite new character in Part 1 primarily because there seemed to be a lot of breadth to her character.
Mine were Eleanor and Max. I liked Javier, too. Kate was also kinda cool in Part 1.
I remember being slightly annoyed at Gabe at first, but it passed quickly and started liking him.
I feel like that in Part 1 everyone was in character. And then the future episodes came out and they felt different. I don't know if this makes sense.
It seems like special plotlines were planned for all the characters - males and females. But they never came true. I wonder what Brad Kane had planned for A New Frontier/Season 3...
Huh. That's an interesting conclusion to come up with so early, considering the commonality involved in what we got among each of them. How did you reach it?
It's just a theory I came up with in February I think. I don't remember how, though. Probably because Clementine was wearing Kate's shirt(from the cover) on her waist in the promotional pictures... It's dumb, anyway.
They should have had interactions, though. More than the off-screen talk about Clementine's womanly problem.
As I've said before, I assumed Kate would be something of a Lilly/Jane to Javier
Hey, Lilly and Jane are nothing alike and shouldn't even be compared. Lilly is much better, you hear me?
even thinking she was Jane at first glance.
HOW?
Gabe.
Our hero. He needed to be more active as a character.
Yeah, that's what you'd expect. But to be fair, he was actually trying to play it tactfully at the time--a rarity.
The one time he had to be angry and he wasn't. Disappointment.
Also, why didn't Dr Lingard's vote count? He voted for Javier and the group to stay. At least, Eleanor got to stay safe and sound.
I am glad that they gave more to his character, too.
To be fair, Conrad and Gabe also got a good amount, with the latter [arguably?] being the most developed character of the installment.
That's true. However, Gabe's development was rushed. His change of heart about David happened too fast, in my opinion, after putting him on a pedestal for almost the entire game(four episodes) and doing everything--even risking his life to save him. Gabe realized just now that he was too good for this.
Conrad deserved more focus, too. What made him interesting is that he was anti-Clementine and wanted us to betray her. I did so, lol. I expected to see more of him in the future... but it seems that our hopes are too good for this game... Anyway, Conrad is one of my favourite characters.
But yeah, there was clearly some degree of favoritism involved, particularly in the last two episodes.
Mhm, the 4th episode being dedicated on saving him and we don't really get a choice -- we HAVE TO save him. We don't get a choice [Listen to Kate and get the fuck out] or [Trust Eleanor and let her talk to Joan/go with her to Joan] and that's lame.
The 5th is about the bromance - but it was an abusive relationship. David always blamed him for everything, attacked him, took his anger out on him. Even in the 1st episode he said "I am not giving you shit, okay?" when they were talking on the phone aaaand he did just that - gave him shit and punched him. He fights us even when we side with him on everything, tctc.
For example?
Well, I suggested Part 2 would've been a place where a flashback featuring Mariana would've been appropriate. Part of t… morehe allowance for this thought is that, when you really think about it, what [crucial] information about the characters involved is given that and what is the relevance to what actually happens within the episode?
Generally speaking, Divided We Fall's flashback establishes that Kate started developing feelings for Javier because his easygoing attitude borne from the freedom involved with being able to travel and indulge was tempting compared to having to deal with David's intolerant fundamentalism. This, in turn, sets up a so-called "love triangle" between the three when David returns at the end of the episode.
Do you see any problem involved with that?
That would have been great, yes. But I don't see how this would worked in From The Gallows.
It probably wouldn't have, but tbf, Mariana… [view original content]
when she and Gabe have conflicting approaches regarding David and Joan
what was this?
anyway, you just proved my point. It's pathetic. Did you ever get the sense in season 1 that Kenny wasn't suffering after episode 3? But Mariana's death seems to have little effect on anyone.
I very much got the feeling that it just restated things we already got or were implied about Gabe.
Well, aside from Drew and the th… moreing with David, I suppose that's true.
On Mariana's death, Gabe was upset for a bit in episode 2 and then I don't remember him bringing her up again?
Yeah, I just brought that up with Fergie.
If there was any Garcia/character that Marianna's existence should've had a clear influence on, it's Gabe. And yet, I remember actually having to ask if she came up anywhere/period when Thicker Than Water came out. Which reinstated my apathy regarding the subject.
I think Kate mentions her like twice.
I wanna say about four times total throughout the installment: In the back of Eleanor's new car, when she and Gabe have conflicting approaches regarding David and Joan, when seeing the injured in Eleanor's hallway, and at the memorial wall in the Teamup to Save Richmond ending.
When they learned David's Soldiers and Joan's Representatives were bout to go at it in Kate's hospital room. She reminds them that they already killed Mariana and that they can't get caught up in another fight.
anyway, you just proved my point. It's pathetic. Did you ever get the sense in season 1 that Kenny wasn't suffering after episode 3? But Mariana's death seems to have little effect on anyone.
when she and Gabe have conflicting approaches regarding David and Joan
what was this?
anyway, you just proved my point. It's path… moreetic. Did you ever get the sense in season 1 that Kenny wasn't suffering after episode 3? But Mariana's death seems to have little effect on anyone.
Well Reggie was a prisoner too but Kenny also thought he had drank too much of the kool aid. Kenny thought the same of Mike because he was actually wanting to work for Carver instead of resisting/escaping
Taken to the kitchen?? Like as in, cannibalized and eaten???? Despite there being literally 0 evidence to suggest that those survivors would do such a thing, especially to their friends?
I know Christa wouldn't bury Michelle but you seriously don't think she would bury Omid, her partner and the father of her child? So you think she just left him to rot in a filthy girls restroom??
Why is Clyde the one that you think was buried, out of all the possible people?! Simply because his corpse wasn't still lying around in later scenes? Nobody was around who knew him or cared about him, if anything Romans group probably just tossed him into the woods or something.
Your answers were especially absurd with this comment.
As messed up as this is to say, I think the latter two were probably taken to the kitchen.
The walkers of Officer Bennett, Jean, and dete… morerminately Walt are a bit up in the air.
As for Omid and Michelle, maybe, but I kinda doubt it.
The only one I see being buried for sure is Deputy Clyde's walker and that's assuming a. he didn't determinately crawl off somewhere else, and b. there was even a shovel available to use.
Well Reggie was a prisoner too but Kenny also thought he had drank too much of the kool aid. Kenny thought the same of Mike because he was actually wanting to work for Carver instead of resisting/escaping
Taken to the kitchen?? Like as in, cannibalized and eaten???? Despite there being literally 0 evidence to suggest that those survivors would do such a thing, especially to their friends?
Yeah, I blatantly stepped into that one anyway, didn't I?
I meant to be butchered/disemboweled to feed the "watchdogs."
I know Christa wouldn't bury Michelle but you seriously don't think she would bury Omid, her partner and the father of her child? So you think she just left him to rot in a filthy girls restroom??
Well, considering she's pregnant, Clementine was barely 4 ft, and those two gunshots may have rang out, not to mention the later mentioned possible lack of a shovel-- yeah, I kinda do.
Why is Clyde the one that you think was buried, out of all the possible people?! Simply because his corpse wasn't still lying around in later scenes?
Because his legs apparently weren't working and Russell determinately pushed the screwdriver in deeper.
Nobody was around who knew him or cared about him, if anything Romans group probably just tossed him into the woods or something.
Though admittedly, I forgot they technically could've just taken him across the fence/road or something.
That or exploited that blood drip trick I suggested a while back.
Okay this comment makes little to no sense.
Taken to the kitchen?? Like as in, cannibalized and eaten???? Despite there being literally 0… more evidence to suggest that those survivors would do such a thing, especially to their friends?
I know Christa wouldn't bury Michelle but you seriously don't think she would bury Omid, her partner and the father of her child? So you think she just left him to rot in a filthy girls restroom??
Why is Clyde the one that you think was buried, out of all the possible people?! Simply because his corpse wasn't still lying around in later scenes? Nobody was around who knew him or cared about him, if anything Romans group probably just tossed him into the woods or something.
Your answers were especially absurd with this comment.
I know I've speculated several times on what they were actually feeding the watchdogs, but i highly doubt that the group would chop up their dead friends to serve the purpose. I mean, they were a dark group but surely not that dark...
I know Clem was young and Christa didn't have a shovel but Christa doesn't seem like someone who would just leave him there like that.
Taken to the kitchen?? Like as in, cannibalized and eaten???? Despite there being literally 0 evidence to suggest that those survivors would… more do such a thing, especially to their friends?
Yeah, I blatantly stepped into that one anyway, didn't I?
I meant to be butchered/disemboweled to feed the "watchdogs."
I know Christa wouldn't bury Michelle but you seriously don't think she would bury Omid, her partner and the father of her child? So you think she just left him to rot in a filthy girls restroom??
Well, considering she's pregnant, Clementine was barely 4 ft, and those two gunshots may have rang out, not to mention the later mentioned possible lack of a shovel-- yeah, I kinda do.
Why is Clyde the one that you think was buried, out of all the possible people?! Simply because his corpse wasn't still lying around in later scenes?
Because his legs apparently weren't working and Russell determinately pushed t… [view original content]
I know.
My point was that that sounds like something that would've been conceptualized long before the game had a release date, especially considering the Twitter promo shots.
I know.
My point was that that sounds like something that would've been conceptualized long before the game had a release date, especially considering the Twitter promo shots.
Comments
Probably, then once everyone buys the season pass the quality and length will go downhill
Eh, honestly I don't like the sound of it. Sounds even more lackluster than whats in the game.
How do they have a little girl get shot right through the brain in full view of the camera, and have it leave such a little impact?
HOW?
RIGHT?! The game went on as if nothing happened. There wasn't a sad atmosphere or mourning over Mari aftewards--NOTHING!
The 3rd flashback should have been about Mariana. It should have shown the relationship between her and her uncle Javier, and make her special. But nope. Mari was treated as if she was no one important. Even her dad acted like some random kid got shot.
What a waste. She had potential.
How have you been, Louche? It's been a while!
I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that in general.
By having said little girl be such a shallow plot device and then ultimately render her to be a completely unnecessary one.
One of the Telltale staff recently tweeted that she is currently working on lead design in Episode 402.
Oh, you know I have to disagree.
Though while we're on the subject, some of the flashbacks could stand to be moved to a place where they're more fitting with their respective episodes.
Personally, I kinda wish they had used either Part 2 or From the Gallows' flashback space to give her more screentime. Now, I more than realize she had zero real relevance to the story to begin with, but at least those spaces would sorta fit the bill of justifying her existence given that Gabe/Kate's actions are partially driven by their regret at not being able to save her.
Probably because she was no one important for the most part. The one character that would've actually benefited some more from her existence character-wise just has her never come up again, for some inexplicable reason.
Which is especially glaring considering most of his screentime came after several rewrites, ones that happened after she was made more nominally relevant to him.
...Wrong thread?
So which is worse: a bad/"bad" idea simply being an actual thing or a bad idea that is completely unnecessary in terms of what's actually done with it?
How was she supposed to get shot by Javier? She was under the fricking hatch.
Haven't you considered her getting bit while trying to hide as a scenario? You sadistic monster
I know, it makes no sense. But it was just a thought.
Honestly, no, not really. I always imagined her getting shot at some point, possibly from Badger sniping her(not literally) when she ran off at Kate and Gabe's discretion.
Plus, as I've stated once before, I've honestly tired of walker related deaths, especially after Season 2.5; I don't really care for zombies in general to begin with. That's one area ANF definitely improved on, at least.
Yeah, I know. I am not surprised.
Don't get me wrong, I like this flashback.
For example?
That would have been great, yes. But I don't see how this would worked in From The Gallows.
I think that the flashback in Episode 4 should have been different. I get that it wanted to show Javier and David's relationship(the bromance... sniff so beautiful.. NOT!) but I feel like it should have been about Javier and The Garcias on the road(after they leave the house) - how they manage, how they find food, have they met someone during that time, etc. In it, we could have seen how the family members interact with each other.
If I remember correctly Shelly Shenoy(Kate's VA) said that Kate went through a big change(developed as a person) and that we were supposed to see how she goes through that change. I guess she means how Episode 3!Kate(Episode 1Preview!Kate) turns into Present!Kate. Kate in Above The Law, as we see, is a naive and scared woman who is hesitant to kill. But in the present she is more laid-back and handles hard situations. Javier can say that she has been through worse than swinging across a helicopter blade. I would have loved to see this transition.
Seriously, she could have been one of the best female characters in TWD universe... oh well. At one point, way before Episode 3 came out, I used to think that she was going to be Clementine's role model - dumb, I know. I also thought that they would interact a lot.
This leads to the conclusion that she was going to be a special character.
Gabe?
But if I were him, I would have turned Richmond upside down if I found out though.
Yeah, the writers clearly favoured him over everyone else.. It makes sense that only he gets development and screentime.
Well, I suggested Part 2 would've been a place where a flashback featuring Mariana would've been appropriate. Part of the allowance for this thought is that, when you really think about it, what [crucial] information about the characters involved is given that and what is the relevance to what actually happens within the episode?
Generally speaking, Divided We Fall's flashback establishes that Kate started developing feelings for Javier because his easygoing attitude borne from the freedom involved with being able to travel and indulge was tempting compared to having to deal with David's intolerant fundamentalism. This, in turn, sets up a so-called "love triangle" between the three when David returns at the end of the episode.
Do you see any problem involved with that?
It probably wouldn't have, but tbf, Mariana being a noteworthy presence in any flashback could just be nominally relevant fan-service regardless unless used cleverly.
However, I used From the Gallows because, honestly, does that flashback add that much to the greater installment? Aside from seeing Rafael alive, seeing his attitude towards his illness/death, and one allusion to him not getting along with his brother, that is.
Some last minute spiritual tension for the somewhat contrived Javier vs David fight, that's what.
See, what pisses me off about that flashback is that it actually added some contrasted correlation between Kate and David in terms of what they are and how they ultimately respond to it. Which would've been perfect material for when the two actually had to interact with each other after so long.
It also adds more characterization for Javier, both in his relationship to David(without being attacked, that is) and in his views about responsibility regarding one's family, so there's that too.
However, I do agree that there should've been a flashback/sequence showing the Garcia-Van Group actually being a group of survivors before/as they really fell into their routine. You could've had the combos be mixed up from the three we actually see in the present.
That sounds about right. She was clearly intended to be a main character in her right, even being on the cover of the damn game.
Yeah, no kidding. While Gabe definitely had seeds being planted while biding his time, Kate was easily my favorite new character in Part 1 primarily because there seemed to be a lot of breadth to her character.
Huh. That's an interesting conclusion to come up with so early, considering the commonality involved in what we got among each of them. How did you reach it?
As I've said before, I assumed Kate would be something of a Lilly/Jane to Javier long before we saw David as a "Kenny Carver" analogue--even thinking she was Jane at first glance.
Gabe.
Yeah, that's what you'd expect. But to be fair, he was actually trying to play it tactfully at the time--a rarity.
To be fair, Conrad and Gabe also got a good amount, with the latter [arguably?] being the most developed character of the installment.
But yeah, there was clearly some degree of favoritism involved, particularly in the last two episodes.
Wow nice avatar, only good things can come from this
Oh my god, I know right? That's what I thought it was going to be when it started, but nope it was just more Gabe whining and honestly a pretty pointless scene.
Jesus Christ, they really dropped the ball. If that episode had opened up with a flashback of Javier and Mariana having some poignant interaction, just imagine how much more impact that baseball bat to Badger's skull would have?
Supposedly Mariana was originally Hector's kid, so they were too lazy to rewrite the characters to care more I guess. Geez.
Oh yeah, ol' Merrie Melodies.
All I'm gonna say for now is "Privileges!"
Oh dude, I disagree. Aside from showing the day the Garcia Van Group left, it also showed that Kate wasn't always on top of her game(not that we got to see much of that anyway), gives an example of what Gabe lost when the outbreak happened in Drew(which could've added towards his later desire to meet new people, now that I think about), showed that Gabe had a sense of determination even then(which I guess could be seen as a characterization issue, but it's not really important), very briefly hinted that Kate still retained some feelings towards David, and established the [actual?]original source of Gabe's initial resentment towards Kate.
It was also there to contrast the fact that they find David alive in the present day, but who cares about that.
Huh. Waddya know, an actual reason to put a flashback there.
Well, mostly David, since the change was almost certainly made to benefit him the most. Javier was a Lee-analogue on the topic, so it's kinda default with him, while Gabe and especially Kate(oddly enough) are considerably effected and motivated by her death.
But yeah, while I actually kinda liked her presence in that flashback despite not saying much, that was indeed a crucial oddity that served to explain why so out of theme/place.
What happened to Clem’s photo of Lee? Last time we see it she places it in her pocket but it never shows up again after that, could she still have it going into S4?
I believe she loses it along with her backpack when Carver captured them in S2.
It was either ruined when she was swept away in the river or it was taken by Carver and never retrieved. So if it showed up it would be a huge plot hole.
Oh shit, now that you mention it, she really doesn't get that thing back, does she?
Wow, she really does have little of herself left.
Not the impression I had. I very much got the feeling that it just restated things we already got or were implied about Gabe. Also his voice actor failed very hard at trying to sound younger and that made it even harder to sit through.
On Mariana's death, Gabe was upset for a bit in episode 2 and then I don't remember him bringing her up again? I think Kate mentions her like twice.
Well, aside from Drew and the thing with David, I suppose that's true.
Yeah, I just brought that up with Fergie.
If there was any Garcia/character that Marianna's existence should've had a clear influence on, it's Gabe. And yet, I remember actually having to ask if she came up anywhere/period when Thicker Than Water came out. Which reinstated my apathy regarding the subject.
I wanna say about four times total throughout the installment: In the back of Eleanor's new car, when she and Gabe have conflicting approaches regarding David and Joan, when seeing the injured in Eleanor's hallway, and at the memorial wall in the Teamup to Save Richmond ending.
When Kenny flips out in the area they were working in, he at one point accuses Mike of being "one of them." Any ideas as to what exactly he meant by that?
One of them meaning one of the people who imprisoned them and were forcing them to work
Is it safe to assume that the people who died at Gil's pit stop were buried there? Such as Omid and determinately Boyd and Stephanie?
Even though he was a prisoner too and in fact "introduced" himself by telling them to stfu so he can rest?
ShittyKennyLogic!
As messed up as this is to say, I think the latter two were probably taken to the kitchen.
The walkers of Officer Bennett, Jean, and determinately Walt are a bit up in the air.
As for Omid and Michelle, maybe, but I kinda doubt it.
The only one I see being buried for sure is Deputy Clyde's walker and that's assuming a. he didn't determinately crawl off somewhere else, and b. there was even a shovel available to use.
...None to the both questions.
Yes, because that "love triangle" pretty much became the centre of the story WHEN we are supposed to be focusing on more important stuff!! Like - who is Javier really and what has he been through, Clementine and Ava's history, where is AJ, why did Clementine not trust Eleanor, how did the Prescott trio form, why did Tripp kill people in the first years of the apocalypse, who was Max before the apocalypse and how did he end up in TNF, where is Max, our group's backstories, why did Kate marry David - these things.
Also
I see what you did there.
Well, I liked that we got to see the father alive. I like him. He never implied that he and Hector don't get along.
She looks pretty cool on it, not gonna lie. Looks kinda different on it, but it's probably just the hair.
Mine were Eleanor and Max. I liked Javier, too. Kate was also kinda cool in Part 1.
I remember being slightly annoyed at Gabe at first, but it passed quickly and started liking him.
I feel like that in Part 1 everyone was in character. And then the future episodes came out and they felt different. I don't know if this makes sense.
It seems like special plotlines were planned for all the characters - males and females. But they never came true. I wonder what Brad Kane had planned for A New Frontier/Season 3...
It's just a theory I came up with in February I think. I don't remember how, though. Probably because Clementine was wearing Kate's shirt(from the cover) on her waist in the promotional pictures... It's dumb, anyway.
They should have had interactions, though. More than the off-screen talk about Clementine's womanly problem.
Hey, Lilly and Jane are nothing alike and shouldn't even be compared.
Lilly is much better, you hear me?
HOW?
Our hero. He needed to be more active as a character.
The one time he had to be angry and he wasn't. Disappointment.
Also, why didn't Dr Lingard's vote count? He voted for Javier and the group to stay. At least, Eleanor got to stay safe and sound.
I am glad that they gave more to his character, too.
That's true. However, Gabe's development was rushed. His change of heart about David happened too fast, in my opinion, after putting him on a pedestal for almost the entire game(four episodes) and doing everything--even risking his life to save him. Gabe realized just now that he was too good for this.
Conrad deserved more focus, too. What made him interesting is that he was anti-Clementine and wanted us to betray her. I did so, lol. I expected to see more of him in the future... but it seems that our hopes are too good for this game... Anyway, Conrad is one of my favourite characters.
Mhm, the 4th episode being dedicated on saving him and we don't really get a choice -- we HAVE TO save him. We don't get a choice [Listen to Kate and get the fuck out] or [Trust Eleanor and let her talk to Joan/go with her to Joan] and that's lame.
The 5th is about the bromance - but it was an abusive relationship. David always blamed him for everything, attacked him, took his anger out on him. Even in the 1st episode he said "I am not giving you shit, okay?" when they were talking on the phone aaaand he did just that - gave him shit and punched him. He fights us even when we side with him on everything, tctc.
Do you think Brad Kane left a script for the ANF writers to follow and that they neglected it when he left(aka Sean Vanaman situation)?
what was this?
anyway, you just proved my point. It's pathetic. Did you ever get the sense in season 1 that Kenny wasn't suffering after episode 3? But Mariana's death seems to have little effect on anyone.
When they learned David's Soldiers and Joan's Representatives were bout to go at it in Kate's hospital room. She reminds them that they already killed Mariana and that they can't get caught up in another fight.
It's almost like she was unnecessary.
Well, considering things like Eleanor being conceptualized as Joan's missing daughter, possibly.
Well Reggie was a prisoner too but Kenny also thought he had drank too much of the kool aid. Kenny thought the same of Mike because he was actually wanting to work for Carver instead of resisting/escaping
Okay this comment makes little to no sense.
Taken to the kitchen?? Like as in, cannibalized and eaten???? Despite there being literally 0 evidence to suggest that those survivors would do such a thing, especially to their friends?
I know Christa wouldn't bury Michelle but you seriously don't think she would bury Omid, her partner and the father of her child? So you think she just left him to rot in a filthy girls restroom??
Why is Clyde the one that you think was buried, out of all the possible people?! Simply because his corpse wasn't still lying around in later scenes? Nobody was around who knew him or cared about him, if anything Romans group probably just tossed him into the woods or something.
Your answers were especially absurd with this comment.
Okay, see NOW that makes a little more sense. Even with Reggie clearly being a former Inner Circle member.
Yeah, I blatantly stepped into that one anyway, didn't I?
I meant to be butchered/disemboweled to feed the "watchdogs."
Well, considering she's pregnant, Clementine was barely 4 ft, and those two gunshots may have rang out, not to mention the later mentioned possible lack of a shovel-- yeah, I kinda do.
Because his legs apparently weren't working and Russell determinately pushed the screwdriver in deeper.
Though admittedly, I forgot they technically could've just taken him across the fence/road or something.
That or exploited that blood drip trick I suggested a while back.
I know I've speculated several times on what they were actually feeding the watchdogs, but i highly doubt that the group would chop up their dead friends to serve the purpose. I mean, they were a dark group but surely not that dark...
I know Clem was young and Christa didn't have a shovel but Christa doesn't seem like someone who would just leave him there like that.
This concept was scrapped before Part 1&2 aired though.
I know.
My point was that that sounds like something that would've been conceptualized long before the game had a release date, especially considering the Twitter promo shots.
Which promo shot are you reffering to specifically?