Am I going to be forced into a scenario where I have to work with Joker?
So throughout my play through I only chose to be nice and work with John just to use him. Besides it was the smarter thing to do but now based on the next episode teaser images & based on this choice do you think I'm going to be forced to work with Joker? After seeing him stab Waller and blow up the bridge I honestly thought it was time to throw him under the bus. Hopefully I won't be forced to side with him... I dunno this feels like some kind of massive hypocrisy considering the hate the idea of a Harley romance got on these forums LOL.
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Don't you worry your pretty little head, in the vigilante ending it seems Waller put some explosive collars on Bane, Harley and Selina, maybe she also did something to Gordon, Tiffany and Alfred, is not so bad using his help against the agencym then we put him into Arkham and everyone is happy.
I just don't want to be forced down the same path as these John shippers haha.
Well THAT'S TOO BAAAD!, you're going to work with John, you're going to hold hands, YOU'RE GOING TO KISS HIM MISTER AND YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT.
...
I'm afraid Kaelthas is right. You'll be forced to merry him now. Quickly, before it's too late, replay the whole season. Be ruUUuuUuuUUuuuuUuUuuUUuUuUUuUuuUUuUde to him!
I have a second playthrough where he is a villain but I may need to switch my episode 4 play through's around based on what happens in episode 5 lmao.
Emergency exit. Good, good.
There are probably going to be choices allowing for the player to decide whether or not they want to continue supporting him (even if they are just dialogue options) and you don't have to be completely on his side and stay on his side for him to be a Vigilante especially since Bruce would probably be wary of him after how he closes episode 4. Assuming episode 5 will really deserve being called "Telltale's 'branchiest' episode ever" (as they called it in the blog post), it may be possible that Bruce can turn against John in episode 5 after starting it on his side.
Hopefully, I haven't read their blog post tbf. But if that's true I may need to branch off and do a third playthrough of episode 5.
Im assuming we maybe able to say that we dont agree with vigilante Joker? Which may then make him villain Joker? I hope we arnt forced to, that would be really lazy writing.
I hope John does more than just being a Villain or Vigilante too. Its annoying how Telltale keeps saying "omg your John will be different based on all choices youve done with him!" But in reality its only been 1 choice.
I think you'll be able to tell him to scram, but he'll show up at the last moment to help you anyway or something like that. Hard to say, since they're hyping up the branching in the finale quite a lot.
Yeah I didn't really have any intention siding with him when it came to him becoming Joker. Maybe it will still all boil down to a fight when his methods become too extreme. (Like trying to kill Waller or something).
Judging by the posts in John-related topics here on the forum, I am definitively in the minority of players when it comes to the episode 4 ending – I have chosen to openly not agree to work with John, to not be responsible for any of his insane ideas and he ended as a villain in my playtrough.
I still do not know if this is better choice or worse than the vigilante ending, but I just couldn’t force myself to anyhow let John know that he has any kind of support on his crazy ideas from Bruce’s side. I agree that using John to find Harley would be smarter move than turning our back on him, but I am not sure if this was the right thing to do (so I did the opposite).
I believe that both endings of episode 4 should have a major consequences in ep5. If you let John think that he can be a hero, then now you have to deal with the outcome of this decision, even if you really do not want to work with him or do not want him to be sticking around. In "vigilante John" playtrough there may be dialog lines which will allow player to somehow put a distance between Bruce and John, but you can’t really take back your words from the end of episode 4, which lead John to think that he can be like Batman.
Still I think in the end Bruce will have to stand against John in both cases (villain and vigilante).
Personally I am at the same time curious and scared about how things will turn out in villain ending – I do not want Joker to harm any of characters important to me, but as for now everything indicates that stakes will be high in the season finale… Which is good of course, but I am really afraid of what the outcome will be.
I kind of feel the same way. I "trusted" John because it's obviously more advantageous having the crazy guy who knows your identity on your side. I hope it doesn't put Bruce's other relationships on the backburner.
What you mean she put bomb collars on bane, Harley, and Selina?
I'll have to admit, I am worried in how this is presented.
Despite my pro-choices towards John, I don't want a team up with him. Not while he's a homicidal vigilante...
I don't want to be against Waller. She's a valuable ally, despite the Agency's shady practices.
I'd much rather be able to talk some sense into John, but based on TTG's description of him, it sounds like a hard thing to draw him away from.
But, maybe the way this is all presented, and the circumstances that come with it will make me understand the path this is.
Yeah I could be looking at this through a window while misinterpreting what I'm seeing. Could be a case of you need to stop Waller's plans Joker just ends up tagging along cause he wants to prove he can be good. Then Joker takes things too far so you have to stop him.
Complete opposite opinion. I want to team up with John and take down the agency. I’ve sided with John out of genuine friendship and I want to continue that.
But seriously... This is about being potentially being forced down a path I didn't expect, I don't care if other people want to continue that but I hope I'm not forced down that path no matter what. Especially considering this could wreck your relationship with a host of other characters.
I think Bruce will ally with John out of necessity. In this route, Waller seems to finally assamble a Sucide Squad because she considers John (and Bruce, for helping him) a threat. That's not wrong, John IS a threat. He blew up a bridge full of innocent people while claiming he was bringing justice to Gotham (even though Waller pushed him to act reckless).
Bruce and his allies clearly despise John's methods, but the Suicide Squad is hunting both of them, so it makes sense to team up for the time being (especially since John considers Bruce his only friend and mentor in this path). John will not go unpunished, of that I'm certain; but I still believe that Bruce sees him as someone who needs guidance.
The interesting thing regarding these two paths is that the antagonists and the people who are in danger will probably vary inmensely. In the villain ending, Joker's main objective is to destroy what Bruce loves; so, it's more than likely that Alfred, Tiffanny and Selina (or Frank) will be in danger. In the vigilante ending, I highly doubt that other people's lifes besides John and Bruce could be at risk.
Yeah that actually makes a lot more sense. I wonder if Freeze will be there based on whether you chose to help him or not? Will definitely be an interesting episode anyway.
I belive Freeze will probably appear. Helping him or not was one of the two major choices in the previous episode (even though most choices were based on the relationship system). I didn't expect to have Harley or Bane involved in episode 5, but here they are, nonetheless, so I think it would seem strange to not even mention Freeze in the episode.
I wasn't expecting Bane or Harley again either tbh. I think Freeze will reappear and will help or hurt Batman depending on our choice last episode. After all it did say "Freeze won't forget that"....
I've felt that Bruce's relationship with John has always been framed in a way that he's using him, no matter how many nice options you have when speaking to him himself. Because when speaking to other people while not in his presence, you can never say anything like, "He's my friend, you should trust him." to someone like Alfred or Selina. You can only tell Alfred that you think he's useful, or Selina that he 'keeps things interesting.'
Which is great for people who actually feel that way, but I actually, genuinely, want to be his friend, and it makes me feel like Bruce is a dull block of wood. Hoping that with Vigilante path they're more willing to have "genuine care" as an option as well as "just staying on his good side."
I like John more than most of the other characters anyway so if I lose their friendship over it then oh well.
I think that (so long as you pick the nice options) Bruce does genuinely care for John. A lot of his dialogue options where he says he cares sound super genuine, and you can see it in his facial expressions. Like when John finally confronts Bruce and tells him to admit hes been using him this entire time. When Bruce says "Its not true, John. I care about you, as a friend, I really do" it was probably the most emotion I've heard Bruce use out of the entire series.
And then there is also on the bridge where Waller asks "hes with you?". If you pick "Play nice, Waller" Bruce will actually say, "Yeah hes with me, so watch what you say about him!".
I don't know I just genuinely believe that Bruce actually does care for John if you play him that way. I am with you though on hoping the Vigilante path gives use more genuine care options
Yeah, the scenes with Bruce defending John against Waller are my favorite ones so far for their relationship, it's the first time I've felt like "Wow, he does care!" Especially when Waller tries to shoot John. The way he says, "What are you doing!? He helped us!" + the fact that if you fail the input for that scene he just steps in front of John and takes the bullet and dies for him (though this could be an excuse to get a game over rather than writing a narrative where john gets shot...).
In the same episode though, Bruce's one-track mind in interrogating John for info on Harley really broke my heart with how there was no "Are you okay?" option or anything to prevent John from being so sad about us not coming to check on him... So, that's kind of why I think Vigilante path might be more willing to go for that care option, since trusting him in the funhouse seems to have definitely narrowed it down to more caring options than it was before.
AGREED. I'm actually overjoyed about this.
I'm actually looking forward to ruin my relationships with other characters for John. It will put Batman in more interesting and risky situation with just a few annoyed allies.
I just a little worried about Alfred because of his health condition, but I think he'll survive.
I'm going to play both versions. First the vigilante and then the villain. I'm really excited to experience all possible scenarios with the character of John Doe. Plus Anthony has been excited to voice John in all of his Joker glory for a while now and I'm curious what he does with it in the villain version.
My obvious preference is vigilante tho. I hope we see more proof that Bruce genuinely cares for his clown friend.
I guess that could probably happen.
What I still don't get is why these things will happen. Why does Waller want to hunt me down, think I'm a threat?
Why will my allies turn on me so suddenly?
Being Bruce/Batman, there's some espionage involved for both sides, manipulation too. If the one goal is to keep Gotham safe and apprehend the criminals, then whatever I do will be to ensure that. They have no proof that me caring for John is real, and I would be glad to apprehend him (in a slow, calm manner).
Again, we'll see how this all goes in Episode 5. Maybe it'll make sense to me then. No worries.
Could be based on the fact you let Waller get stabbed in the gut... Actually now that I think about that, the screen shot could even be from the villain Joker route considering Waller seems to be perfectly fine. Maybe they'll gloss over it or something but you'd think she would be hospitalised after that.
Yes! The whole thing with Waller trying to shoot John is another great example for showing how much Bruce cares. You could argue that he's batman and he doesn't want anyone to die, but you can just hear the pure emotion when he shouts "No!" and reaches for the gun.
I was also genuinely shocked when I saw that failing the QTE results in him taking the shot for John. I'd like to believe he did it because he values John rather than Telltale just being lazy. Especially since Telltale could have just opted for making Bruce do the action even if you don't hit the button since they've pulled stuff like that before.
Well your choice will clearly matter. If you picked the Vigilante Joker then you will work with him
I think it's important to note that either situation has you forced to work with people who are villains. I've got the Villain Joker set up and I can already see that Waller is going to force me as Batman to team up with Bane and (probably) Freeze - two pretty psychopathic criminals - in order to deal with Joker and Harley. So you're making compromises either way.