Is it right to Cover for Clem in s3?
While playing s3 you have the option to tell the truth or "cover" for Clem. I was always split on what the right decision is. During the unofficial announcement of s4 Alyssa Finley said "Clem got to see something she wasn't exposed to in a long time. A functional family." Maybe in a way it is Javi's job to show Clem that it is important to tell the truth. What are your thoughts?
ps: If you haven't seen the announcement here is the video below!
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It can be interpreted as the "right" choice in both scenarios.
Telling the truth is "right" because you're being honest and holding Clem accountable for her actions.
Covering for her is "right" because it was pretty much an accident, Eli was scamming her and she could have gotten killed because of it, and it also shows Clem that there are still people out there who can care for her and have her back in tough situations.
I chose to cover for her, because it's Clem we're talking about here. Makes it a no brainer and judging from her reaction she was very grateful. My Javi always had her back like someone like Kenny or Lee always did, I feel like that's what restored her faith in people and family dynamics.
There really wasn't a right or wrong choice in that scenario. In these games most choices have good aspects as well as negative ones.
That belays the fact that Javi has known her for like 20 minutes.
I think it's really silly character wise for Javier to throw Clem under the bus at that time. He was reliant on her information to find his family which were struggling amid a herd at the moment. Jeopardizing Clem's freedom goes against his goals and the whole direction the plot was going really.
I find the repercussions for covering her really silly though. There was no reason for Tripp to not believe what Clem and Javi were saying. I guess it was an attempt at avoiding making one side of the deal so obviously better consequence-wise than the other.
Yeah that is the primary justification I came up with for why Javi wouldn't cover for her. We know and love her but he just met her. He doesn't know her at all, other than she inadvertently saved him and just killed a dude, albeit accidentally, for scamming her. Why would he risk himself to lie for someone he just met?
Eh, telling the truth (most of it anyway) was essentially the best course of action there. Particularly since Tripp threatened Javier not to make trouble while being pretty casual with her(for some reason).
Also, because ANF!Clementine is an self-centered, edgy little bitch.
Hm, fair enough, I suppose.
It was vaguely implied that Clementine had gotten into some form of trouble in the past due to her attitude, hence why everyone seemed to be wary of her and/or quick to believe she started it.
Which she technically did, but what's in the details.
That makes the choice at the end difficult. Why would Javier stay behind with Clem instead of going with his family?
The only difficult thing is that you can only bury Mariana if you stay behind.
By the way, that's something else I took advantage of.
Plugplugplugplugplug
In my mind, Javi stayed behind with Clem to cover for Gabe and Kate and Tripp so they could get out. If he hadn't stayed, Clem wouldn't be able to hold them off on her own and they'd get gunned down trying to escape. That was my thinking on it.
That's essentially the reasoning, yeah. Clementine argued that they could finish them now and keep them from coming after the family again.
Which is exactly why they got flashbombed seconds afterwards--Oops!
It's because they had to toss in Kate getting shot that makes the choice questionable. Javier would be too worried about her to leave her side.
wut?
I'm sorry, I know this is kind of irrelevant to the discussion, but I seriously have problems with this line, because it's so fucking stupid and makes no sense.
First of all, I wouldn't necessarily call Javi, Kate, Gabe, and David a "functional family." There were so many squabbles and inner conflict during this time that I'm not sure how that can be considered functional. Even if they were, she spent very little actual time with them as a whole, as this season takes place over the span of barely a week and a lot of the time, she's off doing her own thing. I mean, did she even interact at all with Kate on her own outside of when they got back to the apartment in Episode 4? Other than that and a few lines here and there, I don't think they really had a full fledged conversation. She had obvious problems with David, she uncharacteristically got along with Javi pretty quickly, and I've said my peace about her and Gabe.
Secondly, that's kind of insulting to the people who chose the Kenny path, don't you think? Remember, Kate isn't the biological mother of Gabe or Marianna, she married David after his previous wife had them, and Javi is David's brother who she never had a romantic relationship with before the apocalypse. If this is considered a family, then I'm damn sure Clem, Kenny, and AJ are a family, and probably a more functional one than they were. Clem spent well over a year with Kenny and AJ after getting turned away from Wellington, not to mention them knowing each other since the start, being at the motor inn for 3 months, and then reuniting in Season 2. You want to tell me that that, along with how Kenny looked after the both of them like they were his own children, is not considered family? Not to mention that the span between Kenny's death and Clem getting kicked out of The New Frontier is only a month. While the time between her getting kicked out and when she eventually meets Javi is undisclosed, I can't imagine it was more than a couple of months, so in this situation, it's not like in the alone endings or when Jane killed herself. She had a family and was only on her own for a little while, not really a "long time" as Alyssa describes.
Thirdly, if you chose the Wellington path, you mean to tell me that in the overcrowded Wellington, Clem never once came across or was exposed to a functional family? Based on how old AJ is in that outcome, she was there in Wellington for just about the same amount of time she was with Kenny, so I find that very hard to believe.
I'm sorry, I know I went off on a tangent there, but it had to be said, that comment really doesn't hold water when applied to logic. Again, if you want to apply that to something like the Alone or the Jane outcomes, yeah it would make some sense. But for those who had the Kenny or Wellington outcomes, I don't see how that could actually apply.
My rewrites, in which I recently completed Part 2 a few weeks ago.
The only [constructive] reason I can assume for why they did that is because they originally intended to do a proper storyline about Javier having to step up and become a leader.
Not to mention the fact they use the Teamup to Save Richmond ending and it's unnecessary results for that very video, [further?] breaking the aesop right there.
With that said, I imagine they meant it more as "A case where it eventually worked out."
I think she meant more of a family that also survived. I personally think that the Garcia's were great at being a family in this apocalyptic world. I meant it gave her hope for a better future.
I do too, for the most part.
Or he thought big picture and decided covering for them was Kate's best chance of surviving so despite wanting to be at her side he stayed to protect their escape to give her a better chance of survival.
I have a question. You often talk about how much you hate season 3 Clementine for being “edgy” and all of that, but I have also seen you talk about how you regard Michelle as one of your favorite characters.
You know, the edgy teen who shows up for five minutes, uses a bunch of “edgy” language, robs Clementine, calls Lee a bozo, and kills Omid. I’ve seen several of your posts talking about how you regard her as one of the best season 2 characters yet you always talk about how you hate characters for being “edgy”. If you hate "edgy" characters why do you like Michelle so much?
Because that's NOT what Clementine is supposed to be! In fact, that's the type of thing she should occasionally be going up against, if anything.
Plus, Michelle was at least a youth villain, felt organic and in tone with bigger picture, was actually kinda [sym]pathetic, and kind of adorkable despite or even because of that. ANF!Clementine on the other hand was the tryhard realization of the whole Edgy!Clem thing that was clearly meant to be taken completely seriously and inherently failed to work out due to the somewhat unbearable little prostitot quickly and increasingly having little to do with the story on top of being the fucking [fanfavorite?] mascot.
Though now that you mention it, I probably wouldn't mind seeing them swap outfits.
Clementine isn’t supposed to be a certain way at all. She is a character whose personality and development is meant to be tailored by how the player chooses to play. In season 1 the player influences her as her father figure. In season 2 the player is able to choose first hand how they want to develop her personality and how much they want their version of Lee’s teachings to take effect. By the end of season 2 Clementine’s personality is heavily tailored by the player’s personal preference. Then in ANF they threw all of that determinant development out the window by shifting the focus elsewhere and making her a side character. Your development of her in the past two seasons was no longer relevant. They really broke the flow with ANF but luckily the focus is going back to Clementine and players should be able to acknowledge that development again in the final season.
I’m also pissed that they didn’t acknowledge the multiple possibilities of Clementine in ANF. That said, the way Clementine acts in ANF actually kind of makes sense if you actually pay attention and consider things from her perspective and don’t write her off as “edgy”, “dull”, and “girl power”. After being exposed to the apocalypse at such a young age and being through so much shit, it doesn’t make sense for a person to be a softer, innocent, and sweet little girl anymore. Before ANF Clementine had watched everyone, she cared about (with the exception of AJ) die. That kind of shit changes a person, in many cases it doesn’t change their personality for the better.
They never gave this plot much screen time but in the time gap Clementine really took on the role as AJ’s mother. A good parent’s love for their child and emotional connection is unmatched by any other relationship. Clementine gave so much of her heart taking care of AJ. Clementine allowed herself to be branded to give AJ a chance of getting better, yet the New Frontier turned their noses up and when she actually took action to save AJ, it resulted in a terrible outcome. Having the baby, you love and sacrificed so much for ripped from your arms really screws up a person it doesn’t matter how “nice” that person previously could have been. After having that happen to her in combination to all of the other awful things Clementine has been through, she hardened to the core. The one motivation Clementine had left was gone and she just gave up on the world, no longer caring about anyone else and considering what’s she’s been through, it makes plenty of sense. Even if you don't like it.
Clementine wasn’t simply a “one-dimensional, dull, selfish, and edgy” character, she was in a dark place during ANF. Clementine’s ANF arc is her learning how to care about and trust others again. That arc definitely wasn’t handled as well as it could have been but nevertheless, that was her arc in ANF. The final season won’t feature ANF Clementine, it is will once again feature a Clementine who for the most part we will be able to tailor to our liking. So I wouldn’t write off the final season as terrible just because it feature “ANF!Clementine” that version of Clem ended in ANF and we will once again have control over her.
Yeah, I would like to see something like that.
Is it right to cover for her, yes. Eli sold her bullets that it was obvious he knew were defective. It could be reasoned that people died because of those bullets. I will say though if I were Javi..which we were...when we got tossed in the cell and Tripp left I would have punched out Clem for being stupid. That too is also right. But the entire scenario was silly....my Clem would never of done that. Should would have gotten Tripp to help.
I don't think Javi, a 30ish year old man, is gonna punch out a 13 yr old girl. I just can't see him doing that lol.
on paper, sure. that sounds fine.
What do you mean? He totally did...
on the episode 5 title screen art.
You were so close to being back on the Xmas card list lol.
lololol dang it
Great exchange to walk in on.
Too much bias for Clemmy in S3 and just in any game I feel..I think it's not right to always side with her because a couple times she was in the wrong. So it depends on the situation.. the Conrad deal no way and not just because its Clem it's also not right to turn her in like that. Eli deal its right to be truthful and show that she cannot get away with being accountable for murder. I never liked the decisions that involved Clementine anyways..because of her past history with everyone being the sole crutch to cause every choice to be stacked in her favor. Cannot think of even one choice that involved Clementine and the majority of players siding against her as Javier.. Not many players would oppose Clementine unless they hate her or are new players..making me roll my eyes because I knew the statistical outcome of those sort of choices because of the past games of protecting her and because she's still "cute". Most folks would even have Javier and his entire family lined up and steam iron rolled before Clementine would be laid a finger on..even if they had to choose while still being Javier or David. Can't tell me there isn't something not right about that.
Oh dear, and here I thought this was a Christian server. Off my Christmas list you go you fucking heretic!
I feel like most people went against her by letting david in during episode 3 at the factory
Oh god no...that Jesus fellow ruins the entire Xmas atmos!
I'm not sure if that was a choice with stats or not like the one where you stay to fight Badger with Clementine or run ? off with your family to leave her behind to help Kate when she's shot. I have doubts that most let him in when Clementine objects to unlocking the door for David though. Most decisions where Clem is involved are lopsided in her benefit and I think that kind of ruins the idea of it being a tough choice.
Did he though?
I mean, I know that's the assumption/conclusion you're clearly meant to have there, given his design and voice, but given the actual purpose of the scene, the detail that he assumed Javier was her bodyguard there to help intimidate him, and he actually flinched when she pulled the trigger, I personally assumed he was just [trying at] being undeterrant and/or mistrusting to her.
He seemed not in the least bit shocked when she told him those bullets did not work..and everyone will flinch when a trigger is pulled....it was his reaction after that sold the deal he knew they had a massive defect rate. Of course people coming back with complaints was an unforeseen issue as you sort of expect them to have the good grace to die.
I should've known you were trouble with all your trash talk against our beloved Kenny! Only a devil worshipping rapscallion could despise such a pure Christian man
What reaction exactly?
Every video on YouTube ive seen, people have let him in