Is "The Agency" legitimate?
After seeing all the deeds and done's caused by the Agency, especially after Waller's attempted killing of "John Doe" and the encounter of Agent Harrison. Does anyone believe the Agency should function and continue to exist in the Batman universe, or should it be overthrown to a much peaceful organization that doesn't involve the ruthless force The Agency holds?
Is it or is not? If not, then explain your reason why.
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They should exist. I think their great! I loved seeing this organization that got shit done and had a kickass leader who agreed with my Batman's methods.
I mean... I am all for ruthlessness and pragmatism in theory but what they are doing is straight up unnecessary sometimes and I wouldn't say they are the most efficient either. I suppose it's mostly because of Waller herself. Their whole ''shoot first talk later'' philosophy is not unlikely to make them miss valuable information down the line.
John refuses to hand over the virus ? Shoot him ( what if he drops it ?? isn't it counter productive to shoot him instead of asking Bruce to get it )
Harley is clearly restrained and unable to defend herself ? Shoot her
Willy refuses to answer a question what do we do about ? We should murder him. ( I mean wouldn't it be more useful to arrest him and get the information you need ? )
At the beginning I was ''interested'' as in I was willing to see what were her methods sinceI play a rather violent Batman, but I did stick with Gordon who's the one I already trusted when the choices came up. Thank god I did that because she had one job, which was to bring her agents to back me up while undercover... she didn't deliver.
I didn't even talk about Waller's corruption and evolvement with Sanctus either. I do understand Joker's views on Batman and Waller... Though, if I had to say something in their defense, morality and justice are extremely complicated subject... To me morality is quite subjective but some would disagree. Either way, yes, Batman and Waller's reasoning can be illogical at times.
At the end of the day Waller's deeds killed her agents more than it did harm the pact. I think she should have been arrested... as for the agency ? Maybe another leader would have them be more efficient, and maybe they would use their pragmatic and utilitarist philosophy views in a better way.
I think The Agency isn't the problem but their leaders are. The Agency has a pretty shady past and i'm sure the future won't be very different under Waller's command. I don't think The Agency should cease to exist but people who really stay by their codes and don't do unmoral stuff like Waller does should lead it. You got great agents like Avesta and Blake who in my opinion would do a much better job at leading it than Waller.
Thought it was good but they're terrible and aren't even productive in any way,
They certainly get more done than the GCPD.
I'd pretty much have to echo the others that have posted. I don't think ruthless vs peaceful is the Agency's issue : it's inexcusable incompetence. They've got the subtlety of using a sledgehammer to open a jar of pickles. The bridge scene is the most painful example of poor execution.
Waller has already been shown to be duplicitous in nature. How many ways could she have completed her mission on the bridge?
These methods do sound like 'peaceful resolutions' but it doesn't go into what she'd approve once these tactics got her what she wanted. Waller should always have her eye on the prize by any means necessary - which in this case prioritized securing the virus and keeping the bridge in tact. Neither one of these are reasonably achieved by firing at John Doe.
Agreed.
They haven't done much that is evidence that they're better than the GCPD.
Are you kidding me? Torture, (attempted) murder of unarmed, defenseless people, experiments on human subjects, blackmail, corruption, slaves? And all sanctioned by the government? You want such an organization to exist? (assuming it already doesn't) How? Explain to me please, how could you possibly suggest such an idea?
Please tell me one good thing the Agency has done so far.
Never said they were good guys. I mean from a story perspective. They're really enjoyable, I like characters like Waller. That doesn't mean I support or approve of the things they do. Kenny from the Walking Dead is a perfect example. He was my favorite character for a long time but he constantly did things that I considered to be morally wrong.
They're a welcome addition to the story for me and I hope they return for future seasons. What I really like is that they don't waste time. They get shit done that the GCPD is held back from. If they see an objective they just do it and don't concern themselves with others feelings. Waller in particular is definitely one of my favorite characters. A character that supports my Batman's more ugly methods. Not because she likes them but because it gets the job done. Something people often misunderstand about Waller is that she doesn't like the things she does. She does it because she wants to keep people safe no matter the cost.
So please don't misunderstand me. I like the agency from a story perspective. I don't support, murder, torture and slavery.
In their very introduction they saved the lives of several GCPD officers that Batman wouldn't have been fast enough to save. Giving Batman access to Riddler's man that the GCPD wouldn't give. And also saving Bruce from being arrested by Gordon. It's worth mentioning that most of Waller being helpful is dependent on choosing her over Gordon, so most pro Gordon players probably didn't experience some of them. Like calling her for help in episode 2.
Why wouldn't GCPD give access?
THe only good thing theyh did was their intro.
and that was about it.
Because they're the GCPD. By the book and all that.
EDIT: So saving Bruce from Gordon wasn't good? Should Bruce have been arrested?
I agree, and let's not forget corruption. If the government isn't corrupt enough. Now you have an organization that's even worse, and would bring in potential blowback. Like how Waller chose to save the virus rather then destroy it. That in turn brought the Pact into the picture that would have gotten loads of people killed. Like that mechanic from episode 2 who helped us from Bane and was killed as a result. And when Jack got back the virus from Harley and chose not to give to the Agency Waller tried to shoot him, and we all know the blowback from that as loads of people are now dead
If an organization like that exist then the blowback would be enormous and loads more people would be dead. Then you add corruption and the justice system would be worse with no accountability or fairness
Would anybody want an organization like that would use any ends to justify the means. Even if it mean civilian casualties would occur and create more blowback as a result
As far as I am aware in the real world there are no masked vigilante's like Batman.
However there are shadow committee's that consist of military leaders and intelligence experts and government officials just like the Agency.
Hell one of the most popular conspiracy theories is that there is a 'New World Order'
I am sure there are organisations like 'The Agency' who have the same kind of powers that they had such as overthrowing local law enforcement with impunity and taking over operations from the highest ranking official.
Hell I remember a certain American President who believed he himself was above the law and could do anything he wanted. He even went so far as to say 'when the President does it that means that it is not illegal' and he ordered men in his administration to carry out criminal activities and said how because he had told them to carry out these criminal activities they weren't violating the law.
This was and is a prime example of what started out as a 'clean' administration becoming dirty just like the Agency.
However I am willing to wager that there are organisations like the Agency in exsistance that came into being with the intention of being dirty and doing criminal acts right from the very beginning.