I think the intent is that was that Clementine creating another hole and falling in made it easier for Bonnie to get out. Even though technically, the hole she and Luke made should've been bigger.
I think the intent is that was that Clementine creating another hole and falling in made it easier for Bonnie to get out. Even though technically, the hole she and Luke made should've been bigger.
Ben got screwed over so hard.
That's a rare scene that almost nobody would ever see.
And Ben dies in a comedic pratfall before he can do anything of worth.
Better off leaving him at the belltower.
Compare this to Ben who is something of a fan favorite but got way more people killed and consistently bailed when faced with danger. Quite literally bailed on Clementine and left her to be eaten.
And can also determinantly save Lee.
Also yes, because the amount of people who are in any way interested in her character roughly lines up with how many of them also explored h… moreer dialogue and the Fairbanks household as best they could. But for you, sure.
To be fair, I still don't own Michonne, much less played it. It's just a long while since I watched a playthrough.
Leaving aside the fact that she's gay (which had to be confirmed by word of the staff),
And with that, a piece of cornbread went hit my desk.
I do remember being linked to the post with that a while back though, along with Sam actually being 22.
she has hilarious dialogue after you start getting friendly with her,
I'd have to seek it out to know what you're referencing.
can easily leave the Fairbanks when they (or rather Sam, who I doubt James and Alex would willingly part with) choose to stay and fend Norma off even though it's essentially suicidal BUT decides to stay any… [view original content]
He still stands up for himself and sets Kenny straight, as well as help out in defending the house before retreating to the attic--even being the last one up, iirc.
Ben got screwed over so hard.
That's a rare scene that almost nobody would ever see.
And Ben dies in a comedic pratfall before he can do anything of worth.
Better off leaving him at the belltower.
What's the deal with this (confirmed by staff) thing.
I think it was in the "Let's have Respect" thread.
If you have a gay cha… moreracter, then fucking put it in the game. How about that?
They did...they just didn't come out and say it.
I still like Mike and Bonnie. I don't agree with them taking the supplies, though.
Wyatt's Story was not very interesting to me.
I am not a big fan of Eddie and Wyatt.
I enjoyed Bonnie's Story in 400 Days.
I wish Ava had more screentime.
Agreed.
I still want to know where in the world of pancakes did Max go.
I swear I read this as "what world of pancakes did Max go to."
See the AMA for the [temporary?] answer.
I didn't hate Kate, but I didn't want to romance her either. I think her and Javier make a good team as friends.
Honestly, I froze.
I don't hate AJ.
Don'cha just love how that can count as an unpopular opinion?
I would have loved to see her interact with the other members of the group, too.
I can rave with that. I just kinda wish we got some more Ava in general.
I still want to know where in the world of pancakes did Max go. Kinda hoping they make a DLC about him.
I still like Mike and Bonnie. I d… moreon't agree with them taking the supplies, though.
I didn't hate Kate, but I didn't want to romance her either. I think her and Javier make a good team as friends.
Wyatt's Story was not very interesting to me. The best part of it was throwing a few punches at Nate before driving off.
I am not a big fan of Eddie and Wyatt.
I enjoyed Bonnie's Story in 400 Days.
I don't hate AJ.
I wish Ava had more screentime. I would have loved to see her interact with the other members of the group, too.
I swear I read this as "what world of pancakes did Max go to."
See the AMA for the [temporary?] answer.
I know about him being exiled. I am talking about where did he go afterwards. He might be in that pancake world you suggested.
Honestly, I froze.
By a team, I meant like a survival team, if that makes sense. And I totally understand why Kate would fall in love with Javier, though. She spent so much time him on the road - 4 years and who knows what they might have been through together. They also became friends before the outbreak, when she married David. As shown in the 2nd flashback, they would joke around and have friendly conversations. I just prefer them as friends. That's all. Why did you freeze?
Don'cha just love how that can count as an unpopular opinion?
Not at all. Seeing the hatred he receives just makes me sick in the stomach. I bet his haters would have hated Clementine, too, if she was a baby.
I can rave with that. I just kinda wish we got some more Ava in general.
Oh, same here. She was a very promising character ever since the flashback in Episode 2.
It feels so wrong for her to die. Especially like that. But then she became determinant... The reason for killing her is stupid - so it doesn't look like she has plot armor.
I still like Mike and Bonnie. I don't agree with them taking the supplies, though.
Wyatt's Story was not very interesting to me.
I am… more not a big fan of Eddie and Wyatt.
I enjoyed Bonnie's Story in 400 Days.
I wish Ava had more screentime.
Agreed.
I still want to know where in the world of pancakes did Max go.
I swear I read this as "what world of pancakes did Max go to."
See the AMA for the [temporary?] answer.
I didn't hate Kate, but I didn't want to romance her either. I think her and Javier make a good team as friends.
Honestly, I froze.
I don't hate AJ.
Don'cha just love how that can count as an unpopular opinion?
I would have loved to see her interact with the other members of the group, too.
I can rave with that. I just kinda wish we got some more Ava in general.
In hindsight - Arvo was a great character, probably the 4th best character in the game behind Kenny, Clementine and Jane. Great voice acting, appeared at just the right time, decent character arc. I wouldn't mind if we see him back in season 4. I also hope the season 4 younger characters are realistic like Arvo, Becca and Ben and not too cartoonish.
In hindsight - Arvo was a great character, probably the 4th best character in the game behind Kenny, Clementine and Jane. Great voice acting… more, appeared at just the right time, decent character arc. I wouldn't mind if we see him back in season 4. I also hope the season 4 younger characters are realistic like Arvo, Becca and Ben and not too cartoonish.
In hindsight - Arvo was a great character, probably the 4th best character in the game behind Kenny, Clementine and Jane. Great voice acting… more, appeared at just the right time, decent character arc. I wouldn't mind if we see him back in season 4. I also hope the season 4 younger characters are realistic like Arvo, Becca and Ben and not too cartoonish.
I am pretty sure I've posted in here before, but I can't be bothered looking back to make sure I'm not repeating myself:
I still think S2 gets way too much shit. It has its flaws, it's not as strong as S1, but I still think it stands on its own quite well in spite of it. I think all the behind-the-scenes trouble with S3 puts it in perspective; for all of the rewrites and budget problems it had, S2 still managed to tell a relatively cohesive story. Compare that to S3 where it seemed like from episode 2 and onward, the story lost its sense of direction.
You can argue that S2 had a consistent theme in the concepts of trust and loyalty-- a lot of choices and situations throughout the season boiled down to those two things. Can you trust the cabin group? Should they be able to trust you? Is their cautiousness towards Clementine justified? Is your cautiousness towards them justified too? Can Carver be believed in episode 2? Is the cabin group really as good as they seem? Kenny's a familiar face, but is he the same person you knew before? Between Kenny and the cabin group in episode 2, who do you align yourself with? Can you trust Bonnie after what she's done? Is anyone in your group deserving of your loyalty, or even your effort? Do you try to stay loyal to Kenny-- and the group in general-- during episode 4, despite Jane's claims? Is Jane worth believing/trusting? Can Arvo be taken at his word? Who is worth sticking with in the end, if anyone? How much do you put yourself at risk trying to help someone else? Do you keep trying to save Sarah in spite of the risks? Do you try to help save Luke? Do you stick by Kenny despite him seemingly pushing everyone else away? Do you agree with Jane and the others about Kenny's apparent instability? The climactic Kenny/Jane choice is pretty much the ultimate test of trust/loyalty, the moment where you decide if the faith you've put in either character up until that point is worth the cost of the other's life.
All of those questions come back to those two concepts in the end: the trust you have (or don't have) in the people around you, and the loyalty to those you deem worthy of it, and whether or not you're willing to stand by any one person in spite of everything that could happen, or has happened. And that's a focal point of pretty much the entire season from beginning to end, for better or worse.
Meanwhile, in S3... I have trouble trying to name one consistent theme, let alone plot point.
Point being, while I do believe S2 has its share of problems here and there, it's still a decent game overall. Hell, to me myself, it's more than just decent. I hold it to nearly the same height as I do S1. And to the general public, sure, maybe it doesn't look that great next to S1, but quite frankly, I don't know if any game from Telltale's catalog-- possibly besides TFTB-- can really stand up next to TWD S1 in terms of quality and finesse. I've said it before, but I think S1 was above their standard quality line. Ergo, S1 is a case of one game being too good, rather than everything else being worse. At any rate, S2 told a story that I still enjoyed, and was able to draw some kind of meaning out of. I think there is some actual depth to it, despite how it may seem to some people. I can understand why a lot of people look to it as being inferior, and despite getting a bit heated over this topic at times, I don't want to discredit anyone for feeling the way that they do about it. But I just feel a lot of the misgivings people have with it aren't entirely warranted. But at the end of the day, that's just me. Maybe the whole "one man's trash is another man's treasure" comes into play here; some people can draw more meaning or enjoyment out of something than someone else can. So maybe I'm just the one guy looking at something universally considered trash and seeing something else. I dunno. I've just been sitting on these thoughts for a while now and wanted to get them out in the open.
Now with that out of the way, I do want to quickly address S3 here, too. Despite my feelings with S2, and as much as I hate to say this, ANF was more like popcorn entertainment to me. It was serviceable, it was something that kept my attention and interest most of the way through... but I couldn't really draw out the same meaning or depth I could with the first two seasons, or even with the Michonne miniseries. It didn't engage me on that same emotional level. I still don't think ANF is objectively terrible, but it is definitely not as well thought-out or as realized as the other entries thus far. The enjoyment I got from ANF was more surface level than it was for any of the other three games.
Meanwhile, in S3... I have trouble trying to name one consistent theme, let alone plot point.
Aside from family, the closest I can come up with is salvage or reassessment.
Now with that out of the way, I do want to quickly address S3 here, too. Despite my feelings with S2, and as much as I hate to say this, ANF was more like popcorn entertainment to me. It was serviceable, it was something that kept my attention and interest most of the way through... but I couldn't really draw out the same meaning or depth I could with the first two seasons, or even with the Michonne miniseries. It didn't engage me on that same emotional level. I still don't think ANF is objectively terrible, but it is definitely not as well thought-out or as realized as the other entries thus far. The enjoyment I got from ANF was more surface level than it was for any of the other three games.
I am pretty sure I've posted in here before, but I can't be bothered looking back to make sure I'm not repeating myself:
I still think S2… more gets way too much shit. It has its flaws, it's not as strong as S1, but I still think it stands on its own quite well in spite of it. I think all the behind-the-scenes trouble with S3 puts it in perspective; for all of the rewrites and budget problems it had, S2 still managed to tell a relatively cohesive story. Compare that to S3 where it seemed like from episode 2 and onward, the story lost its sense of direction.
You can argue that S2 had a consistent theme in the concepts of trust and loyalty-- a lot of choices and situations throughout the season boiled down to those two things. Can you trust the cabin group? Should they be able to trust you? Is their cautiousness towards Clementine justified? Is your cautiousness towards them justified too? Can Carver be believed in episode 2? Is the cabin group… [view original content]
The only complaint I've had with A New Frontier was how they handled the Ava/Tripp death scenes. Everything else in the season didn't let me down in a big way. I found Javier along with his family interesting, and Clem acted exactly how I would of played her if I was given the drivers seat.
It's been ages since I've seen someone say that S2 was terrible, although most of that is directed as hate towards ANF. I guess I'm now in the minority that dislikes S2, although I don't disagree with most (if not all) of what's good about it.
I am pretty sure I've posted in here before, but I can't be bothered looking back to make sure I'm not repeating myself:
I still think S2… more gets way too much shit. It has its flaws, it's not as strong as S1, but I still think it stands on its own quite well in spite of it. I think all the behind-the-scenes trouble with S3 puts it in perspective; for all of the rewrites and budget problems it had, S2 still managed to tell a relatively cohesive story. Compare that to S3 where it seemed like from episode 2 and onward, the story lost its sense of direction.
You can argue that S2 had a consistent theme in the concepts of trust and loyalty-- a lot of choices and situations throughout the season boiled down to those two things. Can you trust the cabin group? Should they be able to trust you? Is their cautiousness towards Clementine justified? Is your cautiousness towards them justified too? Can Carver be believed in episode 2? Is the cabin group… [view original content]
It's been ages since I've seen someone say that S2 was terrible, although most of that is directed as hate towards ANF. I guess I'm now in the minority that dislikes S2, although I don't disagree with most (if not all) of what's good about it.
I'm not a troll. I thought I could voice my opinion based on the topic. I think a baby places him/her and whomever's around him/her in grave danger. I wouldn't kill a baby if I was in the apocalypse, but I wouldn't be happy to be around him/her.
Recognizing the risks and danger is one thing. Saying the babies aren't worth the trouble is another. But yeah, you can share your opinion. Sorry, my comment was a little harsh.
I'm not a troll. I thought I could voice my opinion based on the topic. I think a baby places him/her and whomever's around him/her in grave danger. I wouldn't kill a baby if I was in the apocalypse, but I wouldn't be happy to be around him/her.
The problem is that Clementine's character basically revolves around AJ. A character that cannot walk, talk or have any real personality or character cannot contribute to the entertainment and should not be such a big plot point. They should kill him off and free Clementine to be her own character again, instead of his babysitter. Rick doesn't really have this problem with Judith, as his character doesn't revolve around her as much.
She may have died in the first episode but she was still very much a driving force for most of the season. It's not like she died and then everyone forgot about her.
Was she really though?
I mean, sure, that's a personal reason Javier to want to kill Badger himself, for Gabe to actually to get involved with the action, and for David to nominally be a little more invested in helping stop Joan, but with the way the story is written/told, she doesn't really have much of an effect on them outside of the initial burst or two.
And ironically, upon reflection and re-contextualization, the only character with any true long-term effect from her death is Kate, who isn't even that related to her oddly enough.
She may have died in the first episode but she was still very much a driving force for most of the season. It's not like she died and then everyone forgot about her.
The problem with Clementine's character is that she's at the misaimed whims of the fanbase and seldom actually the protagonist, which means she has little in characterization and engagement beyond what said fanbase and other characters(or at least Kenny) define for her.
The problem is that Clementine's character basically revolves around AJ. A character that cannot walk, talk or have any real personality or … morecharacter cannot contribute to the entertainment and should not be such a big plot point. They should kill him off and free Clementine to be her own character again, instead of his babysitter. Rick doesn't really have this problem with Judith, as his character doesn't revolve around her as much.
Jane's constant need to tell Clem that she didn't need anyone else and that the baby, Sarah, and people in general are a hindrance was so annoying. Regardless of Kenny in S2 (since people tend to bring him up in arguments against Jane) I didn't like her at all.
Comments
I can't agree with this. Just because you die doesn't mean you're weak. I would say Nick and Sarah were weak, but that's it.
I think the intent is that was that Clementine creating another hole and falling in made it easier for Bonnie to get out. Even though technically, the hole she and Luke made should've been bigger.
But where Clem fell in was on the other side of where Bonnie fell in.
Exactly, that's what makes it weird.
Ben got screwed over so hard.
That's a rare scene that almost nobody would ever see.
And Ben dies in a comedic pratfall before he can do anything of worth.
Better off leaving him at the belltower.
What's the deal with this (confirmed by staff) thing.
If you have a gay character, then fucking put it in the game. How about that?
He still stands up for himself and sets Kenny straight, as well as help out in defending the house before retreating to the attic--even being the last one up, iirc.
I think it was in the "Let's have Respect" thread.
They did...they just didn't come out and say it.
Then she wasn't gay.
I still want to know where in the world of pancakes did Max go. Kinda hoping they make a DLC about him.
I still like Mike and Bonnie. I don't agree with them taking the supplies, though.
I didn't hate Kate, but I didn't want to romance her either. I think her and Javier make a good team as friends.
Wyatt's Story was not very interesting to me. The best part of it was throwing a few punches at Nate before driving off.
I am not a big fan of Eddie and Wyatt.
I enjoyed Bonnie's Story in 400 Days.
I don't hate AJ.
I wish Ava had more screentime. I would have loved to see her interact with the other members of the group, too.
Agreed.
I swear I read this as "what world of pancakes did Max go to."
See the AMA for the [temporary?] answer.
Honestly, I froze.
Don'cha just love how that can count as an unpopular opinion?
I can rave with that. I just kinda wish we got some more Ava in general.
I know about him being exiled. I am talking about where did he go afterwards. He might be in that pancake world you suggested.
By a team, I meant like a survival team, if that makes sense. And I totally understand why Kate would fall in love with Javier, though. She spent so much time him on the road - 4 years and who knows what they might have been through together. They also became friends before the outbreak, when she married David. As shown in the 2nd flashback, they would joke around and have friendly conversations. I just prefer them as friends. That's all. Why did you freeze?
Not at all. Seeing the hatred he receives just makes me sick in the stomach. I bet his haters would have hated Clementine, too, if she was a baby.
Oh, same here. She was a very promising character ever since the flashback in Episode 2.
It feels so wrong for her to die. Especially like that. But then she became determinant... The reason for killing her is stupid - so it doesn't look like she has plot armor.
In hindsight - Arvo was a great character, probably the 4th best character in the game behind Kenny, Clementine and Jane. Great voice acting, appeared at just the right time, decent character arc. I wouldn't mind if we see him back in season 4. I also hope the season 4 younger characters are realistic like Arvo, Becca and Ben and not too cartoonish.
Arvo is a really well written character but he is an easy to hate character. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad character.
Arvo's voice actor is incredibly underrated. Say what you will about the character, the guy that voiced him fucking nailed it.
I am pretty sure I've posted in here before, but I can't be bothered looking back to make sure I'm not repeating myself:
I still think S2 gets way too much shit. It has its flaws, it's not as strong as S1, but I still think it stands on its own quite well in spite of it. I think all the behind-the-scenes trouble with S3 puts it in perspective; for all of the rewrites and budget problems it had, S2 still managed to tell a relatively cohesive story. Compare that to S3 where it seemed like from episode 2 and onward, the story lost its sense of direction.
You can argue that S2 had a consistent theme in the concepts of trust and loyalty-- a lot of choices and situations throughout the season boiled down to those two things. Can you trust the cabin group? Should they be able to trust you? Is their cautiousness towards Clementine justified? Is your cautiousness towards them justified too? Can Carver be believed in episode 2? Is the cabin group really as good as they seem? Kenny's a familiar face, but is he the same person you knew before? Between Kenny and the cabin group in episode 2, who do you align yourself with? Can you trust Bonnie after what she's done? Is anyone in your group deserving of your loyalty, or even your effort? Do you try to stay loyal to Kenny-- and the group in general-- during episode 4, despite Jane's claims? Is Jane worth believing/trusting? Can Arvo be taken at his word? Who is worth sticking with in the end, if anyone? How much do you put yourself at risk trying to help someone else? Do you keep trying to save Sarah in spite of the risks? Do you try to help save Luke? Do you stick by Kenny despite him seemingly pushing everyone else away? Do you agree with Jane and the others about Kenny's apparent instability? The climactic Kenny/Jane choice is pretty much the ultimate test of trust/loyalty, the moment where you decide if the faith you've put in either character up until that point is worth the cost of the other's life.
All of those questions come back to those two concepts in the end: the trust you have (or don't have) in the people around you, and the loyalty to those you deem worthy of it, and whether or not you're willing to stand by any one person in spite of everything that could happen, or has happened. And that's a focal point of pretty much the entire season from beginning to end, for better or worse.
Meanwhile, in S3... I have trouble trying to name one consistent theme, let alone plot point.
Point being, while I do believe S2 has its share of problems here and there, it's still a decent game overall. Hell, to me myself, it's more than just decent. I hold it to nearly the same height as I do S1. And to the general public, sure, maybe it doesn't look that great next to S1, but quite frankly, I don't know if any game from Telltale's catalog-- possibly besides TFTB-- can really stand up next to TWD S1 in terms of quality and finesse. I've said it before, but I think S1 was above their standard quality line. Ergo, S1 is a case of one game being too good, rather than everything else being worse. At any rate, S2 told a story that I still enjoyed, and was able to draw some kind of meaning out of. I think there is some actual depth to it, despite how it may seem to some people. I can understand why a lot of people look to it as being inferior, and despite getting a bit heated over this topic at times, I don't want to discredit anyone for feeling the way that they do about it. But I just feel a lot of the misgivings people have with it aren't entirely warranted. But at the end of the day, that's just me. Maybe the whole "one man's trash is another man's treasure" comes into play here; some people can draw more meaning or enjoyment out of something than someone else can. So maybe I'm just the one guy looking at something universally considered trash and seeing something else. I dunno. I've just been sitting on these thoughts for a while now and wanted to get them out in the open.
Now with that out of the way, I do want to quickly address S3 here, too. Despite my feelings with S2, and as much as I hate to say this, ANF was more like popcorn entertainment to me. It was serviceable, it was something that kept my attention and interest most of the way through... but I couldn't really draw out the same meaning or depth I could with the first two seasons, or even with the Michonne miniseries. It didn't engage me on that same emotional level. I still don't think ANF is objectively terrible, but it is definitely not as well thought-out or as realized as the other entries thus far. The enjoyment I got from ANF was more surface level than it was for any of the other three games.
Aside from family, the closest I can come up with is salvage or reassessment.
Essentially.
Gosh, the whole intended Clementine-Carver parallel thing was silly
The only complaint I've had with A New Frontier was how they handled the Ava/Tripp death scenes. Everything else in the season didn't let me down in a big way. I found Javier along with his family interesting, and Clem acted exactly how I would of played her if I was given the drivers seat.
I think it would have been best if AJ and, for that matter, Judith, would have been killed. The apocalypse is no place for a baby.
It's no place for little girls and yet here we [still fuckin] are.
It's been ages since I've seen someone say that S2 was terrible, although most of that is directed as hate towards ANF. I guess I'm now in the minority that dislikes S2, although I don't disagree with most (if not all) of what's good about it.
An 8-year old can be taught something. A baby can't.
So naturally all the babies should be killed.
Kate should have died in episode 1 and Gabe and Mari should've made it through the whole season
Javier and Mariana should have been the only Garcias to survive.
That's what I believe.
It's funny. I loved season 2, more than 1.
This is one of those rare moments where I hope I'm being trolled as that's preferable to someone having an opinion like that.
I'm not a troll. I thought I could voice my opinion based on the topic. I think a baby places him/her and whomever's around him/her in grave danger. I wouldn't kill a baby if I was in the apocalypse, but I wouldn't be happy to be around him/her.
Recognizing the risks and danger is one thing. Saying the babies aren't worth the trouble is another. But yeah, you can share your opinion. Sorry, my comment was a little harsh.
The problem is that Clementine's character basically revolves around AJ. A character that cannot walk, talk or have any real personality or character cannot contribute to the entertainment and should not be such a big plot point. They should kill him off and free Clementine to be her own character again, instead of his babysitter. Rick doesn't really have this problem with Judith, as his character doesn't revolve around her as much.
Mariana should've been cut if they weren't gonna do much of anything with her existence.
She may have died in the first episode but she was still very much a driving force for most of the season. It's not like she died and then everyone forgot about her.
Was she really though?
I mean, sure, that's a personal reason Javier to want to kill Badger himself, for Gabe to actually to get involved with the action, and for David to nominally be a little more invested in helping stop Joan, but with the way the story is written/told, she doesn't really have much of an effect on them outside of the initial burst or two.
And ironically, upon reflection and re-contextualization, the only character with any true long-term effect from her death is Kate, who isn't even that related to her oddly enough.
Here we go again...
The problem with Clementine's character is that she's at the misaimed whims of the fanbase and seldom actually the protagonist, which means she has little in characterization and engagement beyond what said fanbase and other characters(or at least Kenny) define for her.
I was indifferent to the Slaughterhouse.
Is humanity worth salvaging anymore if we're willing to leave babies to die for the sake of self preservation?
Jane's constant need to tell Clem that she didn't need anyone else and that the baby, Sarah, and people in general are a hindrance was so annoying. Regardless of Kenny in S2 (since people tend to bring him up in arguments against Jane) I didn't like her at all.