Reasons for giving up Batman.
I have seen The_Scribbler_ post, and I figured of doing this one on my own. Based on the players that gave up Batman as a trophy ticket for Alfred.
You see... I gave up Batman because Batman is just too aggressive and brutal. I fear it might grow bigger and bigger the more Bruce keeps up this mantle, which might accidentally kill someone if he wasn't careful with all this experience he had as Batman. In Addition:
- Batman's code creates conflict. Conflict that pushes people off the roof to do things their way which isn't right.
- Batman's ideology of his crusade costed lives of many people he couldn't save for. The more he kept them close, the more he puts them in harms way. One injustice I cant think of, is Lucius Fox's death. That shook Bruce and Alfred right into their core.
- Batman can't keep focus on others around him. He neglected to watch Tiffany after she lost her own flesh and blood at the hands of Riddler, costing him his own life as pure vengeance. Then, one that I can feel the most, is how he lets someone deranged like John Doe over Catwoman. An ally wasted over blood makes nothing compared to everything Batman needs to destroy.
- Last but not least, Batman's intentions fail the interests of Gotham becoming a safe place. He injures himself drastically, wastes his efforts to saving people he believes that he can save all, but couldn't. And last, makes the worst judgement imaginable, to brutalize someone over information for the Riddler.
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There are countless villains who would have succeeded if Batman wasn't around. Falcone would have kept extorting and murdering people, Lady Arkham would have successfully dosed the entire city with her nerve agent, Penguin would have gotten a foothold in Gotham and continued his quest for bloodlust and "justice", the Pact would have succeeded in their mission, not to mention countless petty criminal scum who would have successfully evaded the GCPD.
The notion that Batman creates more problems than he solves is pretty much bullshit. Falcone, Lady Arkham, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, and the Pact all had their own missions without Batman's influence. Two Face was created by Penguin/Lady Arkham, Bruce Wayne, Selina, and his own underlying mental illness. The only viable example is Joker but if you went the vigilante route then Joker still helps to destroy the virus. Plus John was always fucking insane without Batman's influence.
I see literally no reason to give up being Batman besides a) appeasing Alfred (although he only agrees to stay for another night) and b) keeping Bruce's body from taking beating after beating.
I've already gone over a few of my reasons for making my 'canon' choice giving up Batman in the other thread, but I'll be happy to add to the discussion.
Essentially, Bruce needs to step back to reevaluate his place in Gotham, reassess his ideals ( It's not enough to say justice. No one can say that the Agency faced justice, or the people we witness them murder on the footage received justice. ), and if he truly cannot do this alone then he needs to establish how he wants his network to be involved or set it up so they can be involved more safely. If he returns, it's time to bring the family together in the Batcave, and have more backup than Alfred watching the boy he raised as his own child be beaten every night on camera.
I have my Bruce stay as Batman because there will always be criminals and supervillains in Gotham. Even if his presence stands as a challenge for many upcoming criminals, his decision to be Batman has already created the new genre of crimes that is irreversible. The only way to keep this problem from getting worse is to stay as Batman and be their protector. This is Bruce's eternal burden.
Never give up being Batman, never.
Its who Bruce Wayne will always be, him and Batman are one together and can never be apart.
Yeah, I feel like Alfred's "perhaps one more night" line was rather cold.
Honestly I didn't take Alfred's line to be literal. I considered it more of a joke than anything else
I had the impression that Alfred no longer had any hope that Bruce could give up Batman, or if enough of Bruce still existed to give up Batman. I suppose that's what makes John a reflection of Bruce. They're both building a persona that's an idea -- chaos/justice for the villain route, and zero tolerance/street justice in the vigilante route. Outside of their built personas, in a way they're both "John Doe" or a placeholder where a person should be.
In that respect, I took " perhaps one more night " to mean " I want to believe you, but that remains to be seen. "
I think that was more to show his reluctance. Like he's convinced Bruce won't change, even if he tries to. So I think it was like "I really shouldn't, but okay."
There was no teasing or joking at all when he said that line.
I watched a clip of that scene and I interpreted it to be that Alfred was saying "yes" when he said "Maybe just one more night" as it seemed he had a small but noticeable smile on his face
Realistically, Batman should be given up at the end of S2. With Lucius deceased and Alfred gone that makes Batman's operation near impossible without Lucius's upgrades and tech genius (granted Tiffany is also tech savy, but nowhere near as seasoned as Lucius) and with Alfred gone, Batman no longer has the central component that makes the batman operation work.
And even more important is that Bruce's body realistically shouldn't/couldn't keep up especially at his age and health.
Two out of my four Batman/Bruce Wayne's gave up being Batman for Alfred and those two were.
Good and Bad Batman
And
50/50 Batman
An the reason the two of them gave up being Batman for Alfred were.
Good and Bad Batman
What he does being Batman is important and it is important to him. However where as my 'good' Batman thinks with his head before his heart. This Batman thinks with his heart more than his head which is why he did the following.
Saved Selina instead of Harvey (because of his feelings for her)
Why he surrendered when Lady Arkham threatened to kill Catwoman.
Why he slept with her after she saved him
Why he sent Harvey to Arkham after having stopped him from destroying his home.
Why he funded improving Arkham (to help Harvey and others)
Why he removed his cowl (as he later tells Alfred he did it for him)
Why he warned Selina Gordon was coming after her
Why he believed John Doe in the fun house (because he believes everybody can be saved)
Why he refused to hand over Doe even though Waller agreed to release Catwoman if he did (because he knew/believed it would have been wrong to trade one friend for another even if that other was his girlfriend)
Why he told Selina he loved her after she saved him from the destroyed roof of the GCPD
Why he took Tiffany under his wing instead of turning her in
An it is also why he gave up being Batman for Alfred because as important as being Batman is to him it is not more important than his friends or family.
50/50 Batman
This Bruce Wayne is a thrillseeker which is why he is Batman for the thrill of what he is able to do as the Dark Knight and while being Bruce Wayne he does his best to make himself seem very superficial for example.
He tells Harvey the reason he was late was because he wanted to make an entrance.
When he talks to the Zellerbacks every answer he gives is in support of Harvey.
He flirts with Vicki Vale.
He claims the blood on his collar is lipstick
He tells Falcone he couldn't afford to buy Wayne Manor
He shakes Falcone's hand
He has Harvey stay with him
He goes along with what Falcone is saying
However there are times when the real Bruce Wayne comes out.
When he is in Cobblepot park waiting for Oz and those two thugs try and rob him he tells them to just walk away
When Oz talks about his revolution and he asks him if he's threatening him
He holds his parents on a pedestal saying how they would be honoured at the press confrence and that they were heroes. He also refuses to believe what Hill tells him (while dressed as Batman) and believes the
footage shown at the debate to be fake
He goes to Gordon's address as Bruce and says how he will support a stronger GCPD (however when Avesta questions him about this in season 2 he claims he did it because he likes the attention)
By the end of season 2 however this Bruce is changed slightly in the sense that he see's how his decisions and actions have consequences the fact that he believed John Doe when they were in the fun house (and the reason he believed him was simply so that he could use him to stop Harley) he realises what a terrible mistake that was due to what John does although he does his best to brush what happened off when Alfred confronts him on it both in the Batcave (after Avesta helps him) and at the end of the final episode.
However despite his vain attempts to try and brush off everything that has happened and what Alfred is saying to him about how Batman seems to cause more problems than solve etc in the end he can't deny that what Alfred is telling him either is or might be the truth and while he does still enjoy the thrill he get's being Batman it isn't worth losing his family over which is why he decides to give up Batman.