Jane's constant need to tell Clem that she didn't need anyone else and that the baby, Sarah, and people in general are a hindrance was so an… morenoying. Regardless of Kenny in S2 (since people tend to bring him up in arguments against Jane) I didn't like her at all.
This. With Rick, in both comic and TV, his character doesn’t only revolve around one (Judith or Carl), it revolves around almost everyone. Almost everyone in his group contribute to his character.
With Clementine, she doesn’t have that. She’s only focused on AJ to contribute to her character. Javier and his family didn’t contribute a lot, or some to say the least. If people she met from past seasons were still alive and never killed off so early, they would’ve contributed a lot more to her character. The only few I can come up with are Lee (for obvious reasons), Kenny, Christa, and Jane.
The problem is that Clementine's character basically revolves around AJ. A character that cannot walk, talk or have any real personality or … morecharacter cannot contribute to the entertainment and should not be such a big plot point. They should kill him off and free Clementine to be her own character again, instead of his babysitter. Rick doesn't really have this problem with Judith, as his character doesn't revolve around her as much.
This. With Rick, in both comic and TV, his character doesn’t only revolve around one (Judith or Carl), it revolves around almost everyone. A… morelmost everyone in his group contribute to his character.
With Clementine, she doesn’t have that. She’s only focused on AJ to contribute to her character. Javier and his family didn’t contribute a lot, or some to say the least. If people she met from past seasons were still alive and never killed off so early, they would’ve contributed a lot more to her character. The only few I can come up with are Lee (for obvious reasons), Kenny, Christa, and Jane.
Yeah she could've been cut but a few other characters in A New Frontier became redundant after their first few scenes as well and while Mari never got a chance to be useful at least she had a pleasant personality. After being forced to tolerate the rest of the unreasonable dickheads in the Garcia family for the entirety of the season I can appreciate what little time she had on screen in comparison.
The Jane endings (or well, the one where you let the family in, at least) in S2 are underrated, and I think the reason a lot of people don't like them is because they're looking at it the wrong way.
Now bear with me here, I'm gonna try to explain what I'm talking about:
The big complaint most people give about Jane's ending is that it's not sad; which is true on the surface. But you see, that's the point-- the ending itself isn't meant to be sad. Kenny's death is meant to be the emotional centerpiece of the Jane endings. That's the sad part. Everything afterwards is meant to invoke this feeling of hopelessness and emptiness. And that's exactly why I like it; it's tonally unique to the Kenny endings, it's still a distinctly Walking Dead ending, and it tries to deliver something different to the other endings. Kenny's endings are lighter in terms of atmosphere/tone, and pretty outwardly emotional-- they're clearly meant to be sad/sorrowful. Jane's endings are a lot more bleak in comparison, and the emotional tone of the scene is way more subtle than with Kenny. Jane's endings weren't designed with the purpose of being super sad scenes like the ending of S1 or anything like that. They were designed to make the player feel hollow and emotionally drained. If your primary feelings during the Jane endings were wondering if everything's been worth it, and if it's worth continuing to try, then that means the endings were successful. That's exactly what you're meant to be wondering... and that's where the family choice comes into play. You can end it on an ambiguously optimistic ending by letting them in, or on an ambiguously bitter note by turning them away. It's a pretty dark ending actually, testing the player on how much humanity/hope/trust they have left after everything that's happened. Jane's ending can be seen as cliffhangers, and again, I feel like that was the intent. The final choice of the Jane ending is meant to be a gamble. Whatever you do with the family, you're making a gamble with an uncertain outcome. And the cliffhanger-y nature of the endings is the perfect way to hammer that point home for the player.
Basically, to sum it up, Jane's endings were designed to leave you asking "That's it?" and "What now?" and I respect them for that. They didn't just make all the possible endings different flavors of sad, so to speak. They're all meant to invoke different feelings. Each ending is meant to have you walking away from it feeling something different. Kenny's are meant to be sad, Jane's are meant to leave you feeling empty/curious/pessimistic, and the alone ending is probably the least explicit and most ambiguous in terms of meaning.
What's even more interesting is that the endings stay true to the characters involved, when you think about it. Kenny's endings are outwardly emotional, meant to leave the player feeling sad. Kenny's a dude that wears his emotions on his sleeve, always making it clear how he feels about what's going on. He never really hides anything in that regard. Jane's endings are a lot more subdued emotionally; you feel something just below the surface, but you don't quite know exactly how to feel at the end of it all. Jane is aloof and introverted. She has feelings, but she's not the best at expressing them, and prefers to more or less bury them.
And just for the record, I'm someone that originally got the Wellington ending. I originally felt the Jane endings were kinda crap, too. But then I tried to look at them from a different perspective, and ended up with a newfound respect for them. These days, I'd say that the Jane + family ending is my second favorite behind the Wellington ending.
I won't make excuses for how the Jane endings were handled in ANF, though. No doubt about it: the people that got those endings ultimately got shafted even harder than the people that stuck with Kenny. But that doesn't really effect the quality of the S2 endings themselves.
Oh yeah, I forgot the other end of that: Use the screentime and some of the [basic] characterization taken by her to flesh out the other characters, namely Kate, Gabe, and Clementine.
Yeah she could've been cut but a few other characters in A New Frontier became redundant after their first few scenes as well and while Mari… more never got a chance to be useful at least she had a pleasant personality. After being forced to tolerate the rest of the unreasonable dickheads in the Garcia family for the entirety of the season I can appreciate what little time she had on screen in comparison.
Jane's endings are a lot more bleak in comparison, and the emotional tone of the scene is way more subtle than with Kenny.
Oh no, I personally understood that right away. I just feel that it was really kinda dull and not very interesting to look at, narmy mood whiplash aside.
No doubt about it: the people that got those endings ultimately got shafted even harder than the people that stuck with Kenny.
K'yeah, seriously. In fact, I'd go as far as to say they got shafted almost infinitely harder, all things considered.
The Jane endings (or well, the one where you let the family in, at least) in S2 are underrated, and I think the reason a lot of people don't… more like them is because they're looking at it the wrong way.
Now bear with me here, I'm gonna try to explain what I'm talking about:
The big complaint most people give about Jane's ending is that it's not sad; which is true on the surface. But you see, that's the point-- the ending itself isn't meant to be sad. Kenny's death is meant to be the emotional centerpiece of the Jane endings. That's the sad part. Everything afterwards is meant to invoke this feeling of hopelessness and emptiness. And that's exactly why I like it; it's tonally unique to the Kenny endings, it's still a distinctly Walking Dead ending, and it tries to deliver something different to the other endings. Kenny's endings are lighter in terms of atmosphere/tone, and pretty outwardly emotional-- they're clearly meant to be sad/sorrowfu… [view original content]
Really not sure if this is an unpopular opinion by any means, but sometimes I really hate the way the actors deliver their lines. They are all really great at what they do, no doubt, but sometimes with some lines it seems like the delivery was made in the wrong context or with the wrong outlook I guess. I just feel that some lines could have been a lot more powerful or just fit in better if they were said a little bit differently.
Yeah, I've noticed that in places too. I get the feeling some of those lines really were recorded with a different context or direction in mind and just were used anyway in revised scenes and situations.
Really not sure if this is an unpopular opinion by any means, but sometimes I really hate the way the actors deliver their lines. They are a… morell really great at what they do, no doubt, but sometimes with some lines it seems like the delivery was made in the wrong context or with the wrong outlook I guess. I just feel that some lines could have been a lot more powerful or just fit in better if they were said a little bit differently.
I still think "Tell him off" is even worse. There's literally nothing that even suggests that Javier would say what he did. It quite literally comes out of nowhere, and I like how even Kate and David are completely caught off guard by it. It's almost like the game itself was aware of how ridiculous and out of left field that choice is.
I still think "Tell him off" is even worse. There's literally nothing that even suggests that Javier would say what he did. It quite literal… morely comes out of nowhere, and I like how even Kate and David are completely caught off guard by it. It's almost like the game itself was aware of how ridiculous and out of left field that choice is.
Honestly the "John is lying" option takes the cakes for me as far as misleading choices are concerned since it took a major and dramatic turning point in John's character and cheapened it's effect since there was no in hell I'd let my Bruce tell John he was turning him in if I was given the option. I'd be fine if a rephrasing resulted in the same outcome, I was just kinda peeved off by Bruce's wording since I would never say that to John.
I still think "Tell him off" is even worse. There's literally nothing that even suggests that Javier would say what he did. It quite literal… morely comes out of nowhere, and I like how even Kate and David are completely caught off guard by it. It's almost like the game itself was aware of how ridiculous and out of left field that choice is.
I don't dislike Becca. I actually liked her character as it showcased how some might put on a facade of toughness to cope with the apocalypse. To me, Becca had just as much character potential as Clem and Sarah. I was truly hoping for her, Clem, and Sarah to have interactive moments to showcase the many different emotional and mental states of young children in their hostile world.
Is this about Lee's red shirt and black jacket, because I wholeheartedly agree. And, judging by the menu screenshot for "Around Every Corner" (the one with him, Kenny and Christa), it looked like they initially planned for Lee to keep it.
Anyway, my unpopular opinions. I'm not sure if they're really "unpopular" per se, but I have three:
After I first played Episode 1 of Season 1, I went to the wiki and saw Larry's head having been smashed in. At the time, while trying to avoid spoilers, I took that image and the words "meat locker" out of context and wondered if Larry would try to kill Lee again and we would have had to kill him in self-defense. Having played "Starved For Help", I still sorta wish that was what had happened.
Omid and Christa's roles could have easily been filled by Doug and Carley. I mean, honestly, what are the odds of Omid and Christa just happening to be on that bridge the exact moment Lee and co's train was stopped by a blocked underpass?
I think the New Frontier storyline, as it is, would have been better served as a side-story/interquel taking place between Season 1/400 Days and Season 2.
Is this about Lee's red shirt and black jacket, because I wholeheartedly agree.
Nah, he's actually one of the exceptions among the ALMOST. Not that there's anything wrong with it and I can sorta see why other people seem to like it if I'm being generous, but I feel the blue collarshirt fits his character and feel better.
Is this about Lee's red shirt and black jacket, because I wholeheartedly agree. And, judging by the menu screenshot for "Around Every Corner… more" (the one with him, Kenny and Christa), it looked like they initially planned for Lee to keep it.
Anyway, my unpopular opinions. I'm not sure if they're really "unpopular" per se, but I have three:
* After I first played Episode 1 of Season 1, I went to the wiki and saw Larry's head having been smashed in. At the time, while trying to avoid spoilers, I took that image and the words "meat locker" out of context and wondered if Larry would try to kill Lee again and we would have had to kill him in self-defense. Having played "Starved For Help", I still sorta wish that was what had happened.
* Omid and Christa's roles could have easily been filled by Doug and Carley. I mean, honestly, what are the odds of Omid and Christa just happening to be on that bridge the exact moment Lee and co's train was s… [view original content]
I think the New Frontier storyline, as it is, would have been better served as a side-story/interquel taking place between Season 1/400 Days and Season 2.
Is this about Lee's red shirt and black jacket, because I wholeheartedly agree. And, judging by the menu screenshot for "Around Every Corner… more" (the one with him, Kenny and Christa), it looked like they initially planned for Lee to keep it.
Anyway, my unpopular opinions. I'm not sure if they're really "unpopular" per se, but I have three:
* After I first played Episode 1 of Season 1, I went to the wiki and saw Larry's head having been smashed in. At the time, while trying to avoid spoilers, I took that image and the words "meat locker" out of context and wondered if Larry would try to kill Lee again and we would have had to kill him in self-defense. Having played "Starved For Help", I still sorta wish that was what had happened.
* Omid and Christa's roles could have easily been filled by Doug and Carley. I mean, honestly, what are the odds of Omid and Christa just happening to be on that bridge the exact moment Lee and co's train was s… [view original content]
Because the way the characters act feels more like people would four months into the outbreak, when there were more people and more resources to waste, instead of four years.
I think the New Frontier storyline, as it is, would have been better served as a side-story/interquel taking place between Season 1/400 Days and Season 2.
Really? Why?
Because the way the characters act feels more like people would four months into the outbreak, when there were more people and more resources to waste, instead of four years.
Well, considering how quickly people like the St Johns, the Save-Lots bandits and the people of Crawford lost hope and/or went feral, and Joan, going by her backstory and her motives in-game, has less "practical" experience than them...
Debatably wrong thread, but it's from a little mini comic in which Sarah offers to do Clementine's hair(I think) and removes her hat despite her too late protest, only to be shocked into giving it back by her messy afro-like hair.
True. Very fucking true.
In fact, you could argue it's because of people like Jake that Joan and the New Frontier got in their backstory situations and even got the idea.
Well, considering how quickly people like the St Johns, the Save-Lots bandits and the people of Crawford lost hope and/or went feral, and Joan, going by her backstory and her motives in-game, has less "practical" experience than them...
Not sure if this really counts, but I found most of David's friends/associates/co-leagues considerably more interesting and even likable/enjoyable than he really ever was.
Well, this is definitely by far the most unpopular opinion of The Walking Dead of all time?but with that said, here it is. This should be the backstory/synopsis as to how the zombie apocalypse all began:
With it's origins lying beyond all time and space, an otherworldly entity had spawned in their universe. This timeless being has no conscious, and is void of emotion and behavior, for it is alien, unnatural, and cannot be understood. It is formless and immeasurable, and can neither be seen, nor heard. It's very existence warps reality itself, where anything is subject to being changed. And for whatever that has been change, had been done so indiscriminately. After being idle for billions of eons, it has become active once again. Only this time, the nameless being had arrived directly at Earth's doorstep, and had begun to slowly morph reality ever since it's arrival.With it's existence unbeknownst to mankind, it's presence had left a strange feeling that something unnatural had definitely begun to take place, that an inevitable change was coming to their world, and that change was imminent. One day, that untimely change had been set fully into motion. The once lifeless human bodies have suddenly become mindless, soulless creatures, whose bite can turn the living into one of their own in a mere matter of minutes. Although they still resemble the people who died, those people were long gone. Rotting and in ruin, they ignore all laws of nature, as their demise is only met when their brains are destroyed. Driven without aim, they wander the earth feasting upon all life, and do so with never ending hunger.
I think Norma and Randall were the best villains in the whole series. They weren't minor or just a speed bump like (Carver or Joan) and they lasted for more than 2 episodes. Also Norma had redeeming qualities and it's a shame we were forced to kill her instead of give up the little weasel that is Sam
Come to think of it, seeing the Garcias, Prescottites, and David's Unit interact with, give their two cents, and make decisions regarding ANF!Clementine was more intriguing and suspense-inducing than the mascot herself.
I think Norma and Randall were the best villains in the whole series. They weren't minor or just a speed bump like (Carver or Joan) and they… more lasted for more than 2 episodes. Also Norma had redeeming qualities and it's a shame we were forced to kill her instead of give up the little weasel that is Sam
Comments
Because that's all Jane's good for in the [unnecessary] long-run--the one that's not Kenny.
This. With Rick, in both comic and TV, his character doesn’t only revolve around one (Judith or Carl), it revolves around almost everyone. Almost everyone in his group contribute to his character.
With Clementine, she doesn’t have that. She’s only focused on AJ to contribute to her character. Javier and his family didn’t contribute a lot, or some to say the least. If people she met from past seasons were still alive and never killed off so early, they would’ve contributed a lot more to her character. The only few I can come up with are Lee (for obvious reasons), Kenny, Christa, and Jane.
Christa..--Who's dat?!
Yeah she could've been cut but a few other characters in A New Frontier became redundant after their first few scenes as well and while Mari never got a chance to be useful at least she had a pleasant personality. After being forced to tolerate the rest of the unreasonable dickheads in the Garcia family for the entirety of the season I can appreciate what little time she had on screen in comparison.
The Jane endings (or well, the one where you let the family in, at least) in S2 are underrated, and I think the reason a lot of people don't like them is because they're looking at it the wrong way.
Now bear with me here, I'm gonna try to explain what I'm talking about:
The big complaint most people give about Jane's ending is that it's not sad; which is true on the surface. But you see, that's the point-- the ending itself isn't meant to be sad. Kenny's death is meant to be the emotional centerpiece of the Jane endings. That's the sad part. Everything afterwards is meant to invoke this feeling of hopelessness and emptiness. And that's exactly why I like it; it's tonally unique to the Kenny endings, it's still a distinctly Walking Dead ending, and it tries to deliver something different to the other endings. Kenny's endings are lighter in terms of atmosphere/tone, and pretty outwardly emotional-- they're clearly meant to be sad/sorrowful. Jane's endings are a lot more bleak in comparison, and the emotional tone of the scene is way more subtle than with Kenny. Jane's endings weren't designed with the purpose of being super sad scenes like the ending of S1 or anything like that. They were designed to make the player feel hollow and emotionally drained. If your primary feelings during the Jane endings were wondering if everything's been worth it, and if it's worth continuing to try, then that means the endings were successful. That's exactly what you're meant to be wondering... and that's where the family choice comes into play. You can end it on an ambiguously optimistic ending by letting them in, or on an ambiguously bitter note by turning them away. It's a pretty dark ending actually, testing the player on how much humanity/hope/trust they have left after everything that's happened. Jane's ending can be seen as cliffhangers, and again, I feel like that was the intent. The final choice of the Jane ending is meant to be a gamble. Whatever you do with the family, you're making a gamble with an uncertain outcome. And the cliffhanger-y nature of the endings is the perfect way to hammer that point home for the player.
Basically, to sum it up, Jane's endings were designed to leave you asking "That's it?" and "What now?" and I respect them for that. They didn't just make all the possible endings different flavors of sad, so to speak. They're all meant to invoke different feelings. Each ending is meant to have you walking away from it feeling something different. Kenny's are meant to be sad, Jane's are meant to leave you feeling empty/curious/pessimistic, and the alone ending is probably the least explicit and most ambiguous in terms of meaning.
What's even more interesting is that the endings stay true to the characters involved, when you think about it. Kenny's endings are outwardly emotional, meant to leave the player feeling sad. Kenny's a dude that wears his emotions on his sleeve, always making it clear how he feels about what's going on. He never really hides anything in that regard. Jane's endings are a lot more subdued emotionally; you feel something just below the surface, but you don't quite know exactly how to feel at the end of it all. Jane is aloof and introverted. She has feelings, but she's not the best at expressing them, and prefers to more or less bury them.
And just for the record, I'm someone that originally got the Wellington ending. I originally felt the Jane endings were kinda crap, too. But then I tried to look at them from a different perspective, and ended up with a newfound respect for them. These days, I'd say that the Jane + family ending is my second favorite behind the Wellington ending.
I won't make excuses for how the Jane endings were handled in ANF, though. No doubt about it: the people that got those endings ultimately got shafted even harder than the people that stuck with Kenny. But that doesn't really effect the quality of the S2 endings themselves.
Oh yeah, I forgot the other end of that: Use the screentime and some of the [basic] characterization taken by her to flesh out the other characters, namely Kate, Gabe, and Clementine.
Oh no, I personally understood that right away. I just feel that it was really kinda dull and not very interesting to look at, narmy mood whiplash aside.
K'yeah, seriously. In fact, I'd go as far as to say they got shafted almost infinitely harder, all things considered.
Really not sure if this is an unpopular opinion by any means, but sometimes I really hate the way the actors deliver their lines. They are all really great at what they do, no doubt, but sometimes with some lines it seems like the delivery was made in the wrong context or with the wrong outlook I guess. I just feel that some lines could have been a lot more powerful or just fit in better if they were said a little bit differently.
Yeah, I've noticed that in places too. I get the feeling some of those lines really were recorded with a different context or direction in mind and just were used anyway in revised scenes and situations.
Another pet peeve is how sometimes the choices you're given and what you actually say are COMPLETELY different.
Looking at you “Tell Him Off” and “Glass Him”
Exactly. (I had never seen Glass Him so I looked it up and wow. Literally the prime example for this.)
I still think "Tell him off" is even worse. There's literally nothing that even suggests that Javier would say what he did. It quite literally comes out of nowhere, and I like how even Kate and David are completely caught off guard by it. It's almost like the game itself was aware of how ridiculous and out of left field that choice is.
Yeah, Javier is unusually dickish in that moment.
Honestly, looking back, you kinda have to wonder what the point of putting that flashback in the episode was in generally.
Batman: The Enemy Within spoilers ⬇
Honestly the "John is lying" option takes the cakes for me as far as misleading choices are concerned since it took a major and dramatic turning point in John's character and cheapened it's effect since there was no in hell I'd let my Bruce tell John he was turning him in if I was given the option. I'd be fine if a rephrasing resulted in the same outcome, I was just kinda peeved off by Bruce's wording since I would never say that to John.
Not sure if this really counts or if I've posted this before, but Clementine really could've just buzzed off after the stuff in Lingard's Office.
I still think that 'glass him' was pretty clear.
Agreed. I knew exactly what it meant.
Not sure if this counts, but among other things, almost all the Starved for Help wardrobes/designs are easily superior to those in A New Day.
I don't dislike Becca. I actually liked her character as it showcased how some might put on a facade of toughness to cope with the apocalypse. To me, Becca had just as much character potential as Clem and Sarah. I was truly hoping for her, Clem, and Sarah to have interactive moments to showcase the many different emotional and mental states of young children in their hostile world.
Is this about Lee's red shirt and black jacket, because I wholeheartedly agree. And, judging by the menu screenshot for "Around Every Corner" (the one with him, Kenny and Christa), it looked like they initially planned for Lee to keep it.
Anyway, my unpopular opinions. I'm not sure if they're really "unpopular" per se, but I have three:
Nah, he's actually one of the exceptions among the ALMOST. Not that there's anything wrong with it and I can sorta see why other people seem to like it if I'm being generous, but I feel the blue collarshirt fits his character and feel better.
Really? Why?
Because the way the characters act feels more like people would four months into the outbreak, when there were more people and more resources to waste, instead of four years.
Hm...maybe. Not quite sure how that'd affect Joan's motivation, though.
Well, considering how quickly people like the St Johns, the Save-Lots bandits and the people of Crawford lost hope and/or went feral, and Joan, going by her backstory and her motives in-game, has less "practical" experience than them...
@dabigrg where's your Sarah icon from?
Debatably wrong thread, but it's from a little mini comic in which Sarah offers to do Clementine's hair(I think) and removes her hat despite her too late protest, only to be shocked into giving it back by her messy afro-like hair.
True. Very fucking true.
In fact, you could argue it's because of people like Jake that Joan and the New Frontier got in their backstory situations and even got the idea.
Part of kinda wishes ANF(or, if certain info is true, what became the Michonne Miniseries) was about Kate and Gabe.
New Frontier was mediocre.
tarred and feathered
Not sure if this really counts, but I found most of David's friends/associates/co-leagues considerably more interesting and even likable/enjoyable than he really ever was.
Well, this is definitely by far the most unpopular opinion of The Walking Dead of all time?but with that said, here it is. This should be the backstory/synopsis as to how the zombie apocalypse all began:
With it's origins lying beyond all time and space, an otherworldly entity had spawned in their universe. This timeless being has no conscious, and is void of emotion and behavior, for it is alien, unnatural, and cannot be understood. It is formless and immeasurable, and can neither be seen, nor heard. It's very existence warps reality itself, where anything is subject to being changed. And for whatever that has been change, had been done so indiscriminately. After being idle for billions of eons, it has become active once again. Only this time, the nameless being had arrived directly at Earth's doorstep, and had begun to slowly morph reality ever since it's arrival.With it's existence unbeknownst to mankind, it's presence had left a strange feeling that something unnatural had definitely begun to take place, that an inevitable change was coming to their world, and that change was imminent. One day, that untimely change had been set fully into motion. The once lifeless human bodies have suddenly become mindless, soulless creatures, whose bite can turn the living into one of their own in a mere matter of minutes. Although they still resemble the people who died, those people were long gone. Rotting and in ruin, they ignore all laws of nature, as their demise is only met when their brains are destroyed. Driven without aim, they wander the earth feasting upon all life, and do so with never ending hunger.
I think Norma and Randall were the best villains in the whole series. They weren't minor or just a speed bump like (Carver or Joan) and they lasted for more than 2 episodes. Also Norma had redeeming qualities and it's a shame we were forced to kill her instead of give up the little weasel that is Sam
Come to think of it, seeing the Garcias, Prescottites, and David's Unit interact with, give their two cents, and make decisions regarding ANF!Clementine was more intriguing and suspense-inducing than the mascot herself.
Mike was a great guy and deserved a better end than he got.
St. John's were not bad, just uncoped.
Uncoped?
Agreed up until the Sam shade.
meant that they were poorly understood by visitors.