About Marlon... [Episode 1 spoilers]
Why isn't he at least determinant? I think it's way better than killing him in 1 episode.
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Why isn't he at least determinant? I think it's way better than killing him in 1 episode.
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I'm glad he died, since he basically is irredeemable in my eyes. I don't know what other purpose Marlon could have had past episode one besides playing pity party.
Especially after they've been talking about the characters for so long. I think it would've been really nice if they left him determinant. Those who hate him could've had him killed and those who don't could at least see what happens if you let him live.
Either he tries to overthrow you-after which I really wouldn't mind putting the bullet in his head or he could have the redemption arc
I think Marlon was handled perfectly. He really is a brilliant character and is one of the best protagonists/antagonists this series has ever seen. I really connected with these characters this episode. Like the others Marlon was really starting to grow on me. Obviously I could tell that he was desperate but I had no idea he was that desperate. That twist at the end really got me.
Marlon is a brilliant character because he isn't evil he is just a leader whose desperation and paranoia have caused him to make rash and cowardly decisions. This really was a great twist, there were all sorts of emotions in those last fifteen minutes. When this was all revealed I was so pissed with Marlon and I was determined to take him down yet throughout it all especially after he really started to break down I couldn't help but feel sympathetic towards him because it was clear that he never wanted not meant for any of this to happen.
I get what you're saying about wanting more branching but I also think I understand what Telltale is doing.
You can compare this death to Larry, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, and Duck's deaths from Season 1. They are all unavoidable because they are crucial to progress the story that Telltale was trying to tell.
Marlon's death sets the events of this season in motion. The group is in chaos, conflict with the adult faction is inevitable, some people are going to want AJ to be punished for what he did, Clementine is the best person to lead them through this and I doubt everyone is going to approve of her stepping up. Clementine has to pick up the pieces dealing with internal and external conflicts, and give AJ some serious morality lessons before it is too late.
I would have wanted him alive so I can sell him out to Abel's group.
Um, use him to sell him out to Abel's group just like Marlon did to Ten's sisters?
Well damn, I shouldn't have clicked this before watching an alternate playthrough.
So, having seen the alternative choices/playthrough...why exactly does AJ shoot Marlon if you talk him down?
We’ve seen examples of AJ’s aggressive behavior throughout the episode (biting the red headed girl, elbowing Marlon in the groin)...I think it’s safe to say is he prone to violence.
It’s up to Clem to steer him towards a more peaceful path (or not).
I wish Marlon was a determined character I really wish they didn’t really have to kill him off like that...CURSE YOU AJ!!!????
Well said! I agree that Marlon’s death will serve as a launching point for the rest of the season (hence why it was the ending scene). The tragedy is that he had redeemable qualities, but didn’t get the chance to prove it.
Let’s not forget that Marlon is still a relatively young kid from a school for TROUBLED Youths...all things considered, he did a damn good job keeping this group of kids alive as long as he did.
Obviously the murder of Brody and decision to turn over the twins is damning to most...but what do we really know about the threat that this other group poses? He was scared, and as a leader, maybe he felt there was no other option? Kudos to Telltale for developing a character I have such conflicted feelings about!
That's why Clem must act as a mother and not as a (cool) mom that """let you do all you want"""
I mean, I know that, but I don't get it in that scenario.
At least if you have to fight Marlon, it's like he's finishing the job as usual.
Here, he quite literally teleports for the gun for no immediately clear reason. It's like Vengeful wrote that ending.
Yeah! The biggest flaws of this episode. I've watched that scene about 11 times now, and AJ and all the others' position keeps changing throughout. I don't know why the cinematographers need to make characters move 2 steps forward at the start of every 'shot'. But at the very least Louis or Marlon would've seen him going for the gun.
I wish he was determinate simply due to the whole "Aj learns from you" thing, but he will always just kill Marlon. It doesnt matter if through out episode 1 you defuse everything non violently, he just kills him, which I found to be a bit annoying considering how much of a focus of "AJ LEARNS FROM CLEM" they seem to be going for.
It also would have made it a more interesting determinate death where basically all your actions through episode 1 decide if this character gets killed or not, and I dont think they will have another chance to do it in a way like that again, so it feels like a missed opportunity.
Couldn't agree more but I think our actions are gonna have an impact on him in the next episodes.
Oh yeah, that tends to happen sometimes. The frozen lake in No Going Back is the big example I know of.
Louis, yeah, but Marlon was kinda busy at the moment.
Yeah.
I mean, I know what the inherent "benefit" of having Clementine be more or less responsible for Marlon's death is narratively, but it still feels like a odd waste depending on your choices.
I chose the do not hesitate option and when he says it it pisses me off like you had the drop on Abel and hesitated and Marlon as he charges 10 full steps and throws CJ down and takes his gun . (Carver Jr.)
I wouldn't describe AJ as prone to violence. It is clear that he is stuck in survival mode and is always on edge hence the various clues that point to this in Done Running. Not to mention, who knows what happened back at the ranch before and after the incident and who was caring for him before Clem found him.
-Thought a tire swing was a zombie trap
This shows a difference in time compared to Clementine. Clem knew what the world was like before the outbreak and AJ doesn't. This is also illustrated with Tenn when he doesn't know anything about the police and firefighters.
-Safer to kill the walker couple despite their wishes as humans to not want that
It's clear what the canon option is for Clem and how this could affect AJ later down the line.
-Loud noise is bad because it draws the monsters
But Clem confirms loud noise is not always bad and again the canon choice is hinted at. Also, I'm thinking of Louis when he used loud noise as a distraction to help Clem, Violet and AJ.
-Sleeping under the bed because of an tactical advantage in case of an intruder
By this point, Clem is frustrated how AJ is still having difficulty to relax and feel safe under the current circumstances
-First reaction to someone unexpected in his personal space, he goes all out survival mode and has difficulty being calm, cool and collective than on alert all the time
-Lack of social skills
He needs Clem to help him make friends and correct his "It's mine" aggression towards Tenn.
-The police and firefighters were weak
This shows how much of a focus on survival AJ has and how he might view others based on their success to live.
-Do not steal and Do not threaten Clem's safety
AJ is extremely volatile when someone wrongs him and/or someone he loves
-Killing Marlon also meant he was no longer a threat to Clementine or him about the Raider situation and just like Clem will do anything to protect AJ, he will do the same for her
Although, he's young so his judgement isn't always right morally and this is something Clem will have to continue to teach him hopefully.
AJ thinks very differently and is different than Clementine but based on the player's emphasis on what they will teach him will determine whether these behaviors will continue or eventually stop. This is where this comes into play. "AJ is always listening." Everything you tell him, he will take to heart. Which is something we all know.
Agreed.
His death is what's going to set forth a lot of change and story in the game. Especially with the Raiders, and I think its meant to give way for Louis to develop as a character.
I get why they did it, and why he isn't a determinate. But I also feel like Marlon could've had a lot of potential. One thing people want to forget is that Marlon was a teenager. I guess a kid. He was a scared teen who wanted to protect everyone because from the beginning he felt he had to when all the adults left. The biggest difference I think between him and Clementine was that from the beginning, Clementine had an adult with her (Lee) who taught her right from wrong, etc. Continuing on, she learned from the people with her. But Marlon says when everything started, all the adults just up and left these kids, likely around Clementine's age or a bit older, to survive in the messed up world. I also think he had anger issues, which is why he was in that school for "troubled" youths. He messed up and didn't know what to do and just lead himself down an even worse path. And it seemed like he was genuinely remorseful in the end, and I think he had a lot of potential as a character. But, in the end, I guess they had to kill him for story purposes. (Or not, I mean they coulda just kept him alive and him wanting to fix what he did could've been the stories push instead of his death.)
Better that he died only because determinant characters always end up being shit on in the end
He'd still be alive if he hadn't bashed Brody's skull.
I think we learned a lesson with all the twd, whenever something happens with the leader of some group everything collapses ... I really wish that AJ did not have him killed he would be a great character, but as a leader he had to take difficult decisions as we had to take so many times in the 3 games of twd
Marlon's reason for doing what he did was... understandable. I don't support it, and I would've tried fighting against them than just sacrificing. But I get it, he's a kid, and a lot of people that hate on Marlon keeps forgetting that fact. He isn't AWFUL, he's just a kid that's in a fucked up position in a fucked up world. He goes by what he knows, and how he feels. He admitted his fault, his guilt, took blame, and responsibility. I respect that. He could have been redeemed. I hate that they killed him off, gave him that Mariana treatment, you know? If the following episodes are just about betrayals and killing off the group member by member, I'm definitely not buying the season. For now I'm watching on Youtube, and hoping it gets better. Yeah it's more challenging having more branches, but goddamn, this is the LAST season, right? Then go all out! I want more branches, like if you told AJ "don't hesitate" then why the fuck did he hesitate shooting that dude in that couple's place?
I get why Marlon had to die, and I don't fault Telltale at all for it. At some point you have to sacrifice crazy branching in favor of a cohesive story down the line and jumpstart the larger chain of events. But in my (admittedly very specific) playthrough I let Abel take some food and later told AJ that he needs to learn when to fight and that it wasn't the moment. Apparently he didn't listen after all, because a few hours later he shoots an unarmed dude in the head from behind. Clearly Abel was much more of a threat and we managed to diffuse the situation peacefully, but somehow AJ thought this was the moment to fight? Doesn't make sense to me. One of the few gripes I had with this episode on my first playthrough.
He didn’t.
I meant Bashed Brody's skull
I agree 100% yo. People don't wanna remember he's just a kid/teenager still in a messed up world in a position that was left to him likely at a young age considering all the adults left in the beginning and he took over. He had a lot of potential for redemption, etc. He had so much goddamn potential and story value and they threw it away. I get why they did it but come on telltale, it just sucks, I wanted to see more done with his character.
Now you know Pain.
The elbow to the groin is one of my favorite scenes of the episode. That really sold me on Marlon & BAM they took him away from us.
If this "AJ Learns From Clem" continues to be counterproductive, I strongly foresee Clem going Carol/Lizzie with this kid in EP4. As much as I'd like to be optimistic about him, it would kind of make sense for Telltale to do the opposite of S1.
Instead of the protector asking the protected for mercy, the reverse could possibly occur, but I doubt it. This is Telltale.
Indeed! I thought it was pretty stupid of him to pop up mid-sentence during that scene with Abel and Clem. Initially I assumed he purposely delayed bringing the jars up, because he overheard Clem being robbed & was going to wait for the opportune moment to pop-up and do what he did to Marlon, to Abel.
Instead, they chose to save the "don't hesitate" to kill an unarmed, troubled teenager. Way to go, AJ. Way to go.
It's to the point where I'd like some of the talent on this board to come together & we discuss possibly reaching out to Kirkman to license TWD series & do something with our own characters.
I actually kinda like the idea of maybe Aj keeps doing awful things until it gets to the point where youd need to decide that maybe its best to Mice and Men him.