Melton23 has a legitimate theory regarding AJ being a sociopath. What AJ doesn't display are the traits of a psychopath. Both are quite simi… morelar. At the very least, AJ has displayed antisocial personality disorder ( which both share ) which is defined by having at least 3 of the following traits ::
* Regularly breaks or flouts the law
* Constantly lies and deceives others
* Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
* Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
* Has little regard for the safety of others
* Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
* Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
By these listings, AJ has displayed #3, #4, and #7 without any real wiggle room. We haven't had enough time to truly qualify the others, but he does meet three of the criteria. Sociopaths are completely able to display and possess levels of empathy and form attachments to a person or a small number of people. That's commonly confused with psychopaths wh… [view original content]
And this is why I am right. You are trying to justify mental illnesses, and AJ clearly has a lack of humanity, by using the “they were born in a certain environment excuse” but there is no justifying murder. Murder is murder, not a case of living in a certain type of world, because at the end of the day AJ killed somebody without thinking twice. To live in the apocalypse you need to think, to use your brain, and in that instance AJ certainly did not. He acted on his gut feeling, not on instinct, and that is what drives him apart from somebody who needs to use their smarts to survive in a world that they were raised in, from somebody who acts without remorse, killing unarmed people who clearly are no longer a threat.Clementine could have easily locked up Marlon, Marlon couldn’t have done much about that... so why would AJ shoot? Knowing full well that Marlon was surrounded and couldn’t have done much? Being born in a zombie apocalypse doesn’t make you murder defensless people, who’s fate is in the hands of another. That was AJ being stupid and reckless, and there’s no room for that in the apocalypse, and seeing as AJ was born in that world he should know that, and there’ll be quite a lot of distrust in the next episode, and AJ’s dumbness is to thank for that.
Oh hey the guy wanting to kill AJ in cold blood because he killed someone in cold blood is giving me a lecture on how killing is wrong. Trouble is, I've never actually said that what AJ did was right, or that he did nothing wrong. I understand his actions but I don't actually condone them, big difference.
You keep saying he's a sociopath or someone who lacks humanity, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. From my perspective ,AJ has a very black and white moral code that separates humans from monsters. This is evident form the train station scene where he justifies killing the walkers/monsters because they're not people and therefore there's nothing wrong with killing them. Later he strongly objects to the idea of giving up food to Abel and deems him a bad man for stealing. Now I bet you're probably going to say something like "Ha but AJ stole a toy before!" and I just want to remind you that he's probably never seen a wooden figure of a policeman/fireman and that he thinks it belongs to him simply because he picked it up from the ground and no one was touching it. He doesn't see anything wrong with it. This is obviously not a very nice thing to do, hence why you explain to him why he doesn't have the right to just take whatever he pleases (unless you're a horrible parent). He has a child's perception of possession and ownership but he knows that taking food from someone at gunpoint is wrong and therefore condemns said someone.
Now for the final piece of the puzzle, Marlon - who despite you making him out to be a harmless little puppy came pretty close to the definition of the word monster - now him trading the twins and murdering Brody? That all could have been forgiven but the second he locked Clem in the basement with a dead person, tried to manipulate the kids into blaming Clementine and waved AJ's gun around whilst screaming like a fucking lunatic, he became a serious threat to Clementine. He nearly got her killed and hesitated only when he realized he needed her alive. To AJ that's a monstrous act if he's ever seen one and Marlon a monster that endangered his motherly figure and himself. You do know where I'm going with this I hope. He shot him because he considered him a monster, same as every other monster/walker and AJ put him down. He didn't really think about it, or considered all the possibilities - what if he misses and hits Clem, for example? Because he's not as matured as Clem or the others are, he doesn't see him shooting Marlon as anything but trying to protect Clementine. When he kills a walker, it's a normal thing and nobody questions it. So what's the big deal now? (That's me offering his perspective, not my actual opinion)
Oh yeah and as a bonus point, just because he was disarmed, it doesn't mean Marlon wasn't a threat - the guy just nearly killed you and lied to everyone, extremely convincingly I might add but now he's harmless , we just gotta take his word for it. Reminds me of a certain situation where a certain Russian kid was defended by everyone but Kenny, who still considered him a threat and wanted to end him right then and there. He didn't, and later Arvo ended up shooting Clementine.
To me this is stupid and reckless, so you're not really in a position to call AJ a dumbass - he disposed of a potential threat so he wouldn't threaten them in the future. That's not stupid in and on itself, it's actually smart and survivalist, cold blooded as it is. What was stupid was the danger AJ put Clementine in by shooting someone standing in front of her and the fallout and distrust of the group that's sure to follow. He didn't think about those things, because most if not every other kid his age wouldn't think about them. Now if you want to give up on him and murder him after everything you've been through with him because he shot a piece of shit who happened to be your favourite character, be my guest. Just don't preach to me with stuff like "murder is wrong."
And this is why I am right. You are trying to justify mental illnesses, and AJ clearly has a lack of humanity, by using the “they were born … morein a certain environment excuse” but there is no justifying murder. Murder is murder, not a case of living in a certain type of world, because at the end of the day AJ killed somebody without thinking twice. To live in the apocalypse you need to think, to use your brain, and in that instance AJ certainly did not. He acted on his gut feeling, not on instinct, and that is what drives him apart from somebody who needs to use their smarts to survive in a world that they were raised in, from somebody who acts without remorse, killing unarmed people who clearly are no longer a threat.
Clementine could have easily locked up Marlon, Marlon couldn’t have done much about that... so why would AJ shoot? Knowing full well that Marlon was surrounded and couldn’t have done much? Being born in a zombie apocalypse does… [view original content]
How about writing “double post” on the right fecken comment, k thx.
Time to rip your thingie apart I guess... Whenever I say I want AJ to die... that’s sarcasm... a joke, hyperbole, the most I’ll do to him is give him a lesson about what he did was wrong then get him to lighten up a bit. And bro wtf are u high or something (sorry for the tone but this is sorta hilarious) can you remember what you said in that other thread? You soooo condoned AJ’s actions. Is “he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is” not condoning his actions? Like you literally said that AJ is allowed to do stuff like that and act in a certain way because of the world he grew up in.
Now, to the next point. To define sociopath: somebody who acts in an anti-social manner.... now, we have stealing toys (yeah, I said it), shooting people in the backs of their heads WHILE UNARMED, squatting on a table wielding a focken knife, disregarding the fact that walkers were once people and that their DYING WISHES were to be left alone, attacking people for walking up behind them (sort of understandable but what is biting or punching a walker in the nuts gonna do?) and a lot more that I can list if you feel like that isn’t evidence enough for his sociopathic tendencies.
When did I try justifying Marlon? I clearly said in the last that I hate what he did, he was one of my fav characters but his actions moved him down my list. I said I was gonna keep him alive to redeem him, he was unarmed and regretted his choices, therefore there was a redemption arc, and arc that AJ took from us. When somebody wants to resign from their leadership, to leave their friends and life that they were building for almost a decade behind... it takes a lot of balls to do that, and it shows that Marlon did have good intentions and truly regretted giving the twins away... again, redemption arc that was taken from us.
Where are you going with this “not a threat point” Arvo WAS armed bruh ? maybe that’s why he was a threat? Remember when he was unarmed? Bruh was strapped to a pole, nearly fell into a frozen lake and was beaten to death by Kenny. The moment he got that gun, he was then an instant threat. The definition of a threat? “Something/someone that is a danger/has ill intentions towards others” did Marlon have I’ll intentions for the school? No. We only know that we wanted to give Clem and AJ away, but once he gave up those intentions went right down the hill, never to be seen again, therefore threat eliminated.
Got anymore smart-ass remarks with hardly any solid evidence or are we done here?
And this is why I am right. You are trying to justify mental illnesses, and AJ clearly has a lack of humanity, by using the “they were born … morein a certain environment excuse” but there is no justifying murder. Murder is murder, not a case of living in a certain type of world, because at the end of the day AJ killed somebody without thinking twice. To live in the apocalypse you need to think, to use your brain, and in that instance AJ certainly did not. He acted on his gut feeling, not on instinct, and that is what drives him apart from somebody who needs to use their smarts to survive in a world that they were raised in, from somebody who acts without remorse, killing unarmed people who clearly are no longer a threat.Clementine could have easily locked up Marlon, Marlon couldn’t have done much about that... so why would AJ shoot? Knowing full well that Marlon was surrounded and couldn’t have done much? Being born in a zombie apocalypse doesn’t … [view original content]
Character acts irrationally to protect the one person they care about. The forums then immediately take sides: one sides with character because of their loyalty/ability to adapt to changing conditions. The other sides against character because of psychotic/sociopathic tendencies. Now all we need is the new Luke/Jane to compare AJ to.
I have a theory that he has trauma about her. In the Ranch maybe he saw her suffering and cry. He had seen her in a very weak state, since he had decided he would protect her. It's just a theory right now, but you can tell he's very obsessed with protecting her, he does not care about himself. Of course he loves her very much and it's natural that he wants to protect her, but that's an unusual obsession.
Melton23 has a legitimate theory regarding AJ being a sociopath. What AJ doesn't display are the traits of a psychopath. Both are quite simi… morelar. At the very least, AJ has displayed antisocial personality disorder ( which both share ) which is defined by having at least 3 of the following traits ::
* Regularly breaks or flouts the law
* Constantly lies and deceives others
* Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
* Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
* Has little regard for the safety of others
* Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
* Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
By these listings, AJ has displayed #3, #4, and #7 without any real wiggle room. We haven't had enough time to truly qualify the others, but he does meet three of the criteria. Sociopaths are completely able to display and possess levels of empathy and form attachments to a person or a small number of people. That's commonly confused with psychopaths wh… [view original content]
AJ VS Violet? Violet locks Clementine up to prove she is a better love interest then Louis, so AJ wants to kill her. Louis gets in the middle of it and will let AJ kill Violet. Then Louis goes with Clementine and AJ to start a family and live happily after. The end.
Character acts irrationally to protect the one person they care about. The forums then immediately take sides: one sides with character beca… moreuse of their loyalty/ability to adapt to changing conditions. The other sides against character because of psychotic/sociopathic tendencies. Now all we need is the new Luke/Jane to compare AJ to.
How about writing “double post” on the right fecken comment, k thx.
-Melton 2018, not picking any fights.
Time to rip your thingie apart I guess... Whenever I say I want AJ to die... that’s sarcasm... a joke, hyperbole, the most I’ll do to him is give him a lesson about what he did was wrong then get him to lighten up a bit.
Glad we agree that killing AJ is not acceptable. Bit weird though as on this thread, your first reply to me was a justification for wanting him dead - something about sociopathy being sociopathy and that that shit wouldn't fly in the real world? Oh my mistake I guess. It's a little hard to differentiate between sarcasm and genuinity when it comes to you, you do write some weird shit sometimes.
And bro wtf are u high or something (sorry for the tone but this is sorta hilarious) can you remember what you said in that other thread? You soooo condoned AJ’s actions. Is "he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is “ not condoning his actions? Like you literally said that AJ is allowed to do stuff like that and act in a certain way because of the world he grew up in.
I wish I was high, at least I'd think I'm hallucinating or something when I look at this section of your comment. I dare you to find anything I've written that's just a little similar to whatever this shit is: he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is
I think you must have mistaken me with someone else, because I NEVER wrote anything of the sort. I've never actually accepted that he's a sociopath, I've never tried to justify what he did, I simply provided an explanation for WHY he did it but I guess it's better suited for you to make shit up than to respond to what I've actually written.
And no I literally did not say he's allowed to do stuff like that, I've said he does what he does because of the world he grew up in, nothing about whether it's right or wrong. I don't know what's right or wrong in that scenario as I've never been born in a zombie apocalypse and I've never had to adjust to a world like that. Neither have you for that matter.
Now, to the next point. To define sociopath: somebody who acts in an anti-social manner.... now, we have stealing toys (yeah, I said it), shooting people in the backs of their heads WHILE UNARMED, squatting on a table wielding a focken knife, disregarding the fact that walkers were once people and that their DYING WISHES were to be left alone, attacking people for walking up behind them (sort of understandable but what is biting or punching a walker in the nuts gonna do?) and a lot more that I can list if you feel like that isn’t evidence enough for his sociopathic tendencies.
Well see Melton what you have to understand is that our society is not TWD's society. In TWD it's become a norm to regularly commit deeds that would have been deemed as abominable in our world. It's a place where people commit murder every day because they need to. They wouldn't survive otherwise. It's the world that those people live in that makes them do shit like that. AJ, someone who's been born into such a world, has never experienced a healthy society. He's never been around people. His whole life, he's been fighting for survival. Most people would have abandoned AJ because he was a liability - he was endangering their survival. In our world, such a person would have been tried and sentenced in a court of law and considered mentally unstable. In the world of TWD, it wouldn't be condoned, but it would be understood.
AJ does all those things you've listed, shoots people in the back of the heads, wields a knife when seemingly safe, ignores the last wishes of two people (as does the majority of players and for a good reason), attacks people that spook him because the world made him that way. He had to adapt to survive. Think of all the shit everyone else had to do to survive, smashing people's brains in, sacrificing people so others could live longer, putting down friends and family so they wouldn't become mindless killing machines, hacking people's limbs off, stealing food to survive...it's a very long list. Does that seem like social behavior? In our world, fuck no. In TWD's? It's unfortunately the necessary way of life. So by your definition, all those people are sociopaths as well. Which means they're not because everyone is the same.
Also stealing toys? I mean come on dude. You probably did that as a kid, do you consider yourself a sociopath?
When did I try justifying Marlon? I clearly said in the last that I hate what he did, he was one of my fav characters but his actions moved him down my list. I said I was gonna keep him alive to redeem him, he was unarmed and regretted his choices, therefore there was a redemption arc, and arc that AJ took from us. When somebody wants to resign from their leadership, to leave their friends and life that they were building for almost a decade behind... it takes a lot of balls to do that, and it shows that Marlon did have good intentions and truly regretted giving the twins away... again, redemption arc that was taken from us.
And when did I insinuate you were justifying Marlon's actions? All I've disputed was you saying he was of no threat to us.
Where are you going with this “not a threat point” Arvo WAS armed bruh ? maybe that’s why he was a threat? Remember when he was unarmed? Bruh was strapped to a pole, nearly fell into a frozen lake and was beaten to death by Kenny. The moment he got that gun, he was then an instant threat. The definition of a threat? “Something/someone that is a danger/has ill intentions towards others” did Marlon have I’ll intentions for the school? No. We only know that we wanted to give Clem and AJ away, but once he gave up those intentions went right down the hill, never to be seen again, therefore threat eliminated.
You are misunderstanding. See, shortly after the shootout, where Arvo was mourning his dead sister, he had no weapons on him. It was then that Kenny wanted to kill him for what he did, while Luke , Mike and Bonnie got between Arvo and him. And because they didn't allow Kenny to kill him, Arvo later got a chance to arm himself and it cost clementine a bit of her shoulder. Of course he was a threat then. That's what I was saying, he was spared when he was not a threat and later became a threat again. And are you really so naive that just because Marlon said he regretted his actions that automatically means that from now on he's not a threat? Aren't you supposed to be the smart guy in the apocalypse?
Got anymore smart-ass remarks with hardly any solid evidence or are we done here?
How about writing “double post” on the right fecken comment, k thx.
Time to rip your thingie apart I guess... Whenever I say I want AJ to… more die... that’s sarcasm... a joke, hyperbole, the most I’ll do to him is give him a lesson about what he did was wrong then get him to lighten up a bit. And bro wtf are u high or something (sorry for the tone but this is sorta hilarious) can you remember what you said in that other thread? You soooo condoned AJ’s actions. Is “he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is” not condoning his actions? Like you literally said that AJ is allowed to do stuff like that and act in a certain way because of the world he grew up in.
Now, to the next point. To define sociopath: somebody who acts in an anti-social manner.... now, we have stealing toys (yeah, I said it), shooting people in the backs of their heads WHILE UNARMED, squatting on a table wielding a … [view original content]
I honestly believe folks are very biased for Clementine. If it was an accident why does she try to get Javier to cover up her mistake? Just tell Tripp while he's fixing up the nooses that it was all an accident. She only needed to pull that trigger once to spook the guy. Why keep doing it thinking it will never fire? Yes it was a poorly executed situation to get her and Javier in trouble for no reason but it's still cannon and relevant.
Oooohhh I thought you meant Rebecca. To be fair it WAS an accident, what AJ did was on purpose, but I still hated it when Clem killed Eli and wanted to give her the same lecture I plan on giving AJ
None of them have the same personality and ways of thinking but situationally the characters are taking on previous roles. Whether AJ wants Clementine's protection or not he is getting it since he is not big enough to say or force otherwise. Like little Clementine didn't have much say over if she wanted Lee to watch over her and do as he says. The final season's front cover even reveals how this idea is repeatedly identical to season one's mission.
You did not understand. They do not have the same personality! AJ does not want Clem to be his protector, he wants to be independent and protect her. it's not the same.
You are wrong. Telltale said for themselves, it's not the same. You'll see that AJ will do exaggerated things to protect Clementine, he's the most basass there is.
None of them have the same personality and ways of thinking but situationally the characters are taking on previous roles. Whether AJ wants … moreClementine's protection or not he is getting it since he is not big enough to say or force otherwise. Like little Clementine didn't have much say over if she wanted Lee to watch over her and do as he says. The final season's front cover even reveals how this idea is repeatedly identical to season one's mission.
You are wrong. Telltale said for themselves, it's not the same. You'll see that AJ will do exaggerated things to protect Clementine, he's the most basass there is.
I'm trying to say that the idea of the story is not the same as the first season. Clem was a sweet girl (she's still sweet, but tough) and AJ is really not sweet, he's too tough. During this season AJ can get panic attacks, madness to protect Clementine, it's really not the same idea as one season. In one season the goal was to protect the little girl, here the goal is more to educate and make AJ understand this world. Because Clem is still a child herself, there are many different things in their relationship to the relationship in season one.
I'm trying to say that the idea of the story is not the same as the first season. Clem was a sweet girl (she's still sweet, but tough) and A… moreJ is really not sweet, he's too tough. During this season AJ can get panic attacks, madness to protect Clementine, it's really not the same idea as one season. In one season the goal was to protect the little girl, here the goal is more to educate and make AJ understand this world. Because Clem is still a child herself, there are many different things in their relationship to the relationship in season one.
I must ask who is. AJ's guardian?
Then I must ask who was Clementine's guardian?
Then I must ask what are the similarities between the… more two?
What did AJ and Clementine have in common in the apocalypse? = Guardians
What did Clementine and Lee have in common in the apocalypse?
=Young child to care for.
When these questions are answered in unison my point is thus manifested.
yeah, yeah, I forgot the reply button was a thing, I hadn't had any sleep and I don't post a lot. Hanlon's Razor.
You made the claim that AJ was a sociopath, that puts the burden of proof on you not me. What makes someone a sociopath is that they are incapable of empathy. That's what you need to prove, otherwise it's just a bunch of bullshit armchair psychology. I mean, "hitting, biting", you just described every little kid ever at one point or another. This behavior can be much more easily attributed to trauma, judging by the context that was given in the game. And him not "feeling any kind of remorse," you've seen what, 15 minutes of ep 2? Even if he didn't, that doesn't make him a sociopath either. Sociopath is not a synonym for asshole. It looks to me like you're just looking for punchy words.
As for me "attacking you," I didn't call you names, I didn't say anything about your mom, I said your opinion was dumb. Yeah, man, you're free to think whatever you want about a fictional character. That's fine. But if you're going to put that opinion out publicly on a forum, you shouldn't be surprised if it gets criticized publicly. Particularly if you're presenting that opinion as a statement of fact.
You gonna actually click the reply button next time? It’s not hard to notice. And how is it in any way an hyperbole? I presented facts and y… moreou didn’t bother to disprove them at all, you instantly thought “he’s just exaggerating” and the forums aren’t like the rest of the internet, you attack somebody on here and there’s like a 70% chance you’re getting banned for it.
Not gonna respect what people have to say? Fine. I couldn’t care less because it only shows that what you have to say is meaningless.
Also... lol why are all of the forum newbies a part of the bad man squad who try to start shit with me? ? did I actually used to be like this back in the day? That wasn’t rhetorical, I’d love an answer from a vet cos I already think that my past self was a bit of a prick
Fine then. He murdered a defensless person, who my Clem was going to lock up for a while, he doesn’t care about the feelings of others apart from his maternal figure (which is why I got the stealing the toys argument from) he stays up in the middle of knife holding a blade, he disregards a dead couple’s dying wishes, he enjoys bashing the walker piñata if you choose to do that, he wants you to kill the baby rabbit, he gets “satisfied” when you push Abel into the herd and finally, as a bonus, one of his outcomes is “ruthless”.
If these aren’t the signs of a clear sociopath in the making then I don’t know what is, because normal people certainly wouldn’t do or feel these things. I rest my case.
yeah, yeah, I forgot the reply button was a thing, I hadn't had any sleep and I don't post a lot. Hanlon's Razor.
You made the claim that… more AJ was a sociopath, that puts the burden of proof on you not me. What makes someone a sociopath is that they are incapable of empathy. That's what you need to prove, otherwise it's just a bunch of bullshit armchair psychology. I mean, "hitting, biting", you just described every little kid ever at one point or another. This behavior can be much more easily attributed to trauma, judging by the context that was given in the game. And him not "feeling any kind of remorse," you've seen what, 15 minutes of ep 2? Even if he didn't, that doesn't make him a sociopath either. Sociopath is not a synonym for asshole. It looks to me like you're just looking for punchy words.
As for me "attacking you," I didn't call you names, I didn't say anything about your mom, I said your opinion was dumb. Yeah, man, you're fre… [view original content]
Jesus Christ, making me read and write focken essays. Speaking of which you read none of my post did you? First off, I wasn’t picking any fights, I was giving you honest advice. Don’t like honesty? Then the telltale forums just isn’t for you because it’s full of it.
Further evidence you didn’t read my post that I put a good 5 mins into properly, I said I was JOKING when I said I wanted AJ dead, J-O-K-I-N-G. I’m cruel but I’m not that cruel.
Alright, I’ll admit that I worded that sentence a little wrong. What I meant to say was that you condoned all of his actions, but the best reason I got was “he was born in a certain type of world” bro fam, Tenn was a baby when the apocalypse started, he doesn’t remember a world before that, not enough of it anyway, he obviously knows the basics that all toddlers know (such as policemen and firemen) but still...he’s an apocalypse child. Now what does this have to do with my point? How about not pulling a weapon on Marlon despite him selling his sisters into slavery? As well as being a “threat” according to you. Marlon did nothing to AJ. Was extremely kind to him throughout the episode, yet it was AJ who killed him, not Tenn.
Lol why would anyone kill the couple? Clem looked through the gate and there were no walkers in sight, perfectly safe to send AJ through. (Sure the same happened in season 2, but Clementine likely thought that the walker on the floor was dead) and you’re apparently trying to justify bandits, raiders and antagonist groups? Not Lee’s group, the cabin survivors or the reborn new frontier? How about Prescott? That place was full of weirdos and Ava still described it as a good place. Again, you’re not thinking about the whole situation, you’re only focusing on one thing and one thing only. (Also as a few honourable mentions from the comics we have Alexandria, the hilltop, Oceanside and the kingdom who don’t kill and steal) so yeah, clearly not everyone in the apocalypse is a bloodthirsty psycho because these groups have a fuck tonne of sane people in them.
You said that I was basically comparing Marlon to a puppy, that there is enough to say that you thought I was justifying his actions. I wouldn’t compare somebody to something like that unless I thought that they were good and their actions were justifiable.
So you’re now admitting that Arvo was no threat when he was disarmed? So what about Marlon then? Was he a threat or not a threat? Arvo clearly wanted your group dead, he sent his people to steal from you as revenge for what Jane did... Marlon just gave up, Arvo shot a child. How can you seriously justify Arvo but not Marlon? (Not saying that I justify him, just making an analogy)
Come back with actual evidence cos I’m getting overwhelmed by the mass levels of stubbornness. Admit I’m right about at least some of these points, then it’s forgive and forget
How about writing “double post” on the right fecken comment, k thx.
-Melton 2018, not picking any fights.
Time to rip your thi… morengie apart I guess... Whenever I say I want AJ to die... that’s sarcasm... a joke, hyperbole, the most I’ll do to him is give him a lesson about what he did was wrong then get him to lighten up a bit.
Glad we agree that killing AJ is not acceptable. Bit weird though as on this thread, your first reply to me was a justification for wanting him dead - something about sociopathy being sociopathy and that that shit wouldn't fly in the real world? Oh my mistake I guess. It's a little hard to differentiate between sarcasm and genuinity when it comes to you, you do write some weird shit sometimes.
And bro wtf are u high or something (sorry for the tone but this is sorta hilarious) can you remember what you said in that other thread? You soooo condoned AJ’s actions. Is "he was born in the zombie apo… [view original content]
Melton23 has a legitimate theory regarding AJ being a sociopath. What AJ doesn't display are the traits of a psychopath. Both are quite similar. At the very least, AJ has displayed antisocial personality disorder ( which both share ) which is defined by having at least 3 of the following traits ::Regularly breaks or flouts the lawConstantly lies and deceives othersIs impulsive and doesn’t plan aheadCan be prone to fighting and aggressivenessHas little regard for the safety of othersIrresponsible, can’t meet financial obligationsDoesn’t feel remorse or guilt
These are legitimate signs to tell if someone is a sociopath in a functioning society. Being birthed into world where you have to constantly worry about being eaten by walking corpse’s and getting killed or worse by dangerously fucked up people would make any newborn kid a “sociopath” if you followed these rules.
Melton23 has a legitimate theory regarding AJ being a sociopath. What AJ doesn't display are the traits of a psychopath. Both are quite simi… morelar. At the very least, AJ has displayed antisocial personality disorder ( which both share ) which is defined by having at least 3 of the following traits ::
* Regularly breaks or flouts the law
* Constantly lies and deceives others
* Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
* Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
* Has little regard for the safety of others
* Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
* Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
By these listings, AJ has displayed #3, #4, and #7 without any real wiggle room. We haven't had enough time to truly qualify the others, but he does meet three of the criteria. Sociopaths are completely able to display and possess levels of empathy and form attachments to a person or a small number of people. That's commonly confused with psychopaths wh… [view original content]
You place sociopath in quotations as if it's some evil nickname or slur. I'd rather hoped to dispel some common misconceptions regarding that diagnosis. Kirkman's creation has birthed a world where sociopaths are far more common place -- not only in the children birthed into the world, but it has given rise to adults that develop it. Being a sociopath still doesn't make a person good or evil. There are several that are high functioning that serve well even in today's society.
Melton23 has a legitimate theory regarding AJ being a sociopath. What AJ doesn't display are the traits of a psychopath. Both are quite simi… morelar. At the very least, AJ has displayed antisocial personality disorder ( which both share ) which is defined by having at least 3 of the following traits ::Regularly breaks or flouts the lawConstantly lies and deceives othersIs impulsive and doesn’t plan aheadCan be prone to fighting and aggressivenessHas little regard for the safety of othersIrresponsible, can’t meet financial obligationsDoesn’t feel remorse or guilt
These are legitimate signs to tell if someone is a sociopath in a functioning society. Being birthed into world where you have to constantly worry about being eaten by walking corpse’s and getting killed or worse by dangerously fucked up people would make any newborn kid a “sociopath” if you followed these rules.
It does! What Alegra is trying to say is that Clementine and AJ's dynamic is fresh and interesting, as evidenced by the teaser gameplay for EP2, because AJ feels the need to protect Clem, although this isn't the main part of the game. Excuse my language, but I think what you're saying is rather obvious and, as Alegra said, (she?) spoke about aspects far deeper than that. Hope that clears things up.
Only thing I was saying was AJ should take the place of Clem far as growing up in the apocalypse in the future like Clem has and Clem eventually sacrificing herself to be with and like Lee again in like a "history repeats itself" concept. Nothing about personalities or whether AJ wants to protect Clementine.
What I said may have been obvious but still true. AJ can want to protect Clem all he wants but he's not presently going to be more efficient at dispatching walkers and fending off attacking survivors without a gun more than Clem. Even Clem still struggles a lot still and AJ although a boy is a little boy and considerably weaker than her and less capable until he's older. Like if Clem (when she was the puny season one version) wanted to protect Lee she could desire to do that all she wants and kind of has on a couple occasions when given a gun like AJ. but she'd never been more efficient than Lee and even now still isn't. Now that I think of it I'm sure Clem when smaller highly likely wanted to protect Lee from harm just as much as AJ wishes to with Clem in the present day.
We were saying different things essentially and I don't really disagree but AJ wanting to protect his guardian is also obvious and nothing new. Gabe wanted to protect Javi most of the time just was miserable ? ? at it. And Becca would likely want to protect Shel. These looking out for your loved ones personalities are nothing special or unique. Unless there is yet a deeper meaning still hidden from my understanding.
It does! What Alegra is trying to say is that Clementine and AJ's dynamic is fresh and interesting, as evidenced by the teaser gameplay for … moreEP2, because AJ feels the need to protect Clem, although this isn't the main part of the game. Excuse my language, but I think what you're saying is rather obvious and, as Alegra said, (she?) spoke about aspects far deeper than that. Hope that clears things up.
D'uh! Yeah, I know. In the EP2 teaser it seemed like Clem wasn't taking AJ seriously enough to his satisfaction. She knew that it was her job, that AJ was still little, and shouldn't have to go on 'patrol' for her. I think it's supposed to be cute yet dark. Clem puts AJ in his place by saying 'you're still little' it's such a powerful and provocative.
Only thing I was saying was AJ should take the place of Clem far as growing up in the apocalypse in the future like Clem has and Clem eventu… moreally sacrificing herself to be with and like Lee again in like a "history repeats itself" concept. Nothing about personalities or whether AJ wants to protect Clementine.
What I said may have been obvious but still true. AJ can want to protect Clem all he wants but he's not presently going to be more efficient at dispatching walkers and fending off attacking survivors without a gun more than Clem. Even Clem still struggles a lot still and AJ although a boy is a little boy and considerably weaker than her and less capable until he's older. Like if Clem (when she was the puny season one version) wanted to protect Lee she could desire to do that all she wants and kind of has on a couple occasions when given a gun like AJ. but she'd never been more efficient than Lee and even now still isn't. Now that I thi… [view original content]
D'uh! Yeah, I know. In the EP2 teaser it seemed like Clem wasn't taking AJ seriously enough to his satisfaction. She knew that it was her jo… moreb, that AJ was still little, and shouldn't have to go on 'patrol' for her. I think it's supposed to be cute yet dark. Clem puts AJ in his place by saying 'you're still little' it's such a powerful and provocative.
I think it's supposed to be cute yet dark.
What made it dark?
In the EP2 teaser it seemed like Clem wasn't taking AJ seriously enough to his satisfaction.
You don't say?
Considering the common daily way of life they live it just sounds like a regular night in the walking dead. Often settlements will have one group member remain awake keeping armed guard over the community. Maybe it was dark to some but to me I got nothing significantly ominous toned from that scene. Or I'm just hard hearted or ought to rewatch it, though Lee's fate was a bit misty eyed inducing for me.
Comments
This comment is getting liked
I swear grammar I to can goodness.
That moment when you realize AJ is the new Kenny.
As in...?
Oh hey the guy wanting to kill AJ in cold blood because he killed someone in cold blood is giving me a lecture on how killing is wrong. Trouble is, I've never actually said that what AJ did was right, or that he did nothing wrong. I understand his actions but I don't actually condone them, big difference.
You keep saying he's a sociopath or someone who lacks humanity, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. From my perspective ,AJ has a very black and white moral code that separates humans from monsters. This is evident form the train station scene where he justifies killing the walkers/monsters because they're not people and therefore there's nothing wrong with killing them. Later he strongly objects to the idea of giving up food to Abel and deems him a bad man for stealing. Now I bet you're probably going to say something like "Ha but AJ stole a toy before!" and I just want to remind you that he's probably never seen a wooden figure of a policeman/fireman and that he thinks it belongs to him simply because he picked it up from the ground and no one was touching it. He doesn't see anything wrong with it. This is obviously not a very nice thing to do, hence why you explain to him why he doesn't have the right to just take whatever he pleases (unless you're a horrible parent). He has a child's perception of possession and ownership but he knows that taking food from someone at gunpoint is wrong and therefore condemns said someone.
Now for the final piece of the puzzle, Marlon - who despite you making him out to be a harmless little puppy came pretty close to the definition of the word monster - now him trading the twins and murdering Brody? That all could have been forgiven but the second he locked Clem in the basement with a dead person, tried to manipulate the kids into blaming Clementine and waved AJ's gun around whilst screaming like a fucking lunatic, he became a serious threat to Clementine. He nearly got her killed and hesitated only when he realized he needed her alive. To AJ that's a monstrous act if he's ever seen one and Marlon a monster that endangered his motherly figure and himself. You do know where I'm going with this I hope. He shot him because he considered him a monster, same as every other monster/walker and AJ put him down. He didn't really think about it, or considered all the possibilities - what if he misses and hits Clem, for example? Because he's not as matured as Clem or the others are, he doesn't see him shooting Marlon as anything but trying to protect Clementine. When he kills a walker, it's a normal thing and nobody questions it. So what's the big deal now? (That's me offering his perspective, not my actual opinion)
Oh yeah and as a bonus point, just because he was disarmed, it doesn't mean Marlon wasn't a threat - the guy just nearly killed you and lied to everyone, extremely convincingly I might add but now he's harmless , we just gotta take his word for it. Reminds me of a certain situation where a certain Russian kid was defended by everyone but Kenny, who still considered him a threat and wanted to end him right then and there. He didn't, and later Arvo ended up shooting Clementine.
To me this is stupid and reckless, so you're not really in a position to call AJ a dumbass - he disposed of a potential threat so he wouldn't threaten them in the future. That's not stupid in and on itself, it's actually smart and survivalist, cold blooded as it is. What was stupid was the danger AJ put Clementine in by shooting someone standing in front of her and the fallout and distrust of the group that's sure to follow. He didn't think about those things, because most if not every other kid his age wouldn't think about them. Now if you want to give up on him and murder him after everything you've been through with him because he shot a piece of shit who happened to be your favourite character, be my guest. Just don't preach to me with stuff like "murder is wrong."
double post. pls delete this
How about writing “double post” on the right fecken comment, k thx.
Time to rip your thingie apart I guess... Whenever I say I want AJ to die... that’s sarcasm... a joke, hyperbole, the most I’ll do to him is give him a lesson about what he did was wrong then get him to lighten up a bit. And bro wtf are u high or something (sorry for the tone but this is sorta hilarious) can you remember what you said in that other thread? You soooo condoned AJ’s actions. Is “he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is” not condoning his actions? Like you literally said that AJ is allowed to do stuff like that and act in a certain way because of the world he grew up in.
Now, to the next point. To define sociopath: somebody who acts in an anti-social manner.... now, we have stealing toys (yeah, I said it), shooting people in the backs of their heads WHILE UNARMED, squatting on a table wielding a focken knife, disregarding the fact that walkers were once people and that their DYING WISHES were to be left alone, attacking people for walking up behind them (sort of understandable but what is biting or punching a walker in the nuts gonna do?) and a lot more that I can list if you feel like that isn’t evidence enough for his sociopathic tendencies.
When did I try justifying Marlon? I clearly said in the last that I hate what he did, he was one of my fav characters but his actions moved him down my list. I said I was gonna keep him alive to redeem him, he was unarmed and regretted his choices, therefore there was a redemption arc, and arc that AJ took from us. When somebody wants to resign from their leadership, to leave their friends and life that they were building for almost a decade behind... it takes a lot of balls to do that, and it shows that Marlon did have good intentions and truly regretted giving the twins away... again, redemption arc that was taken from us.
Where are you going with this “not a threat point” Arvo WAS armed bruh ? maybe that’s why he was a threat? Remember when he was unarmed? Bruh was strapped to a pole, nearly fell into a frozen lake and was beaten to death by Kenny. The moment he got that gun, he was then an instant threat. The definition of a threat? “Something/someone that is a danger/has ill intentions towards others” did Marlon have I’ll intentions for the school? No. We only know that we wanted to give Clem and AJ away, but once he gave up those intentions went right down the hill, never to be seen again, therefore threat eliminated.
Got anymore smart-ass remarks with hardly any solid evidence or are we done here?
Character acts irrationally to protect the one person they care about. The forums then immediately take sides: one sides with character because of their loyalty/ability to adapt to changing conditions. The other sides against character because of psychotic/sociopathic tendencies. Now all we need is the new Luke/Jane to compare AJ to.
I have a theory that he has trauma about her. In the Ranch maybe he saw her suffering and cry. He had seen her in a very weak state, since he had decided he would protect her. It's just a theory right now, but you can tell he's very obsessed with protecting her, he does not care about himself. Of course he loves her very much and it's natural that he wants to protect her, but that's an unusual obsession.
AJ VS Violet? Violet locks Clementine up to prove she is a better love interest then Louis, so AJ wants to kill her. Louis gets in the middle of it and will let AJ kill Violet. Then Louis goes with Clementine and AJ to start a family and live happily after. The end.
-Melton 2018, not picking any fights.
Glad we agree that killing AJ is not acceptable. Bit weird though as on this thread, your first reply to me was a justification for wanting him dead - something about sociopathy being sociopathy and that that shit wouldn't fly in the real world? Oh my mistake I guess. It's a little hard to differentiate between sarcasm and genuinity when it comes to you, you do write some weird shit sometimes.
I wish I was high, at least I'd think I'm hallucinating or something when I look at this section of your comment. I dare you to find anything I've written that's just a little similar to whatever this shit is: he was born in the zombie apocalypse, that alone is a good enough reason to be as sociopathic as he is
I think you must have mistaken me with someone else, because I NEVER wrote anything of the sort. I've never actually accepted that he's a sociopath, I've never tried to justify what he did, I simply provided an explanation for WHY he did it but I guess it's better suited for you to make shit up than to respond to what I've actually written.
And no I literally did not say he's allowed to do stuff like that, I've said he does what he does because of the world he grew up in, nothing about whether it's right or wrong. I don't know what's right or wrong in that scenario as I've never been born in a zombie apocalypse and I've never had to adjust to a world like that. Neither have you for that matter.
Well see Melton what you have to understand is that our society is not TWD's society. In TWD it's become a norm to regularly commit deeds that would have been deemed as abominable in our world. It's a place where people commit murder every day because they need to. They wouldn't survive otherwise. It's the world that those people live in that makes them do shit like that. AJ, someone who's been born into such a world, has never experienced a healthy society. He's never been around people. His whole life, he's been fighting for survival. Most people would have abandoned AJ because he was a liability - he was endangering their survival. In our world, such a person would have been tried and sentenced in a court of law and considered mentally unstable. In the world of TWD, it wouldn't be condoned, but it would be understood.
AJ does all those things you've listed, shoots people in the back of the heads, wields a knife when seemingly safe, ignores the last wishes of two people (as does the majority of players and for a good reason), attacks people that spook him because the world made him that way. He had to adapt to survive. Think of all the shit everyone else had to do to survive, smashing people's brains in, sacrificing people so others could live longer, putting down friends and family so they wouldn't become mindless killing machines, hacking people's limbs off, stealing food to survive...it's a very long list. Does that seem like social behavior? In our world, fuck no. In TWD's? It's unfortunately the necessary way of life. So by your definition, all those people are sociopaths as well. Which means they're not because everyone is the same.
Also stealing toys? I mean come on dude. You probably did that as a kid, do you consider yourself a sociopath?
And when did I insinuate you were justifying Marlon's actions? All I've disputed was you saying he was of no threat to us.
You are misunderstanding. See, shortly after the shootout, where Arvo was mourning his dead sister, he had no weapons on him. It was then that Kenny wanted to kill him for what he did, while Luke , Mike and Bonnie got between Arvo and him. And because they didn't allow Kenny to kill him, Arvo later got a chance to arm himself and it cost clementine a bit of her shoulder. Of course he was a threat then. That's what I was saying, he was spared when he was not a threat and later became a threat again. And are you really so naive that just because Marlon said he regretted his actions that automatically means that from now on he's not a threat? Aren't you supposed to be the smart guy in the apocalypse?
I should be asking you that.
I honestly believe folks are very biased for Clementine. If it was an accident why does she try to get Javier to cover up her mistake? Just tell Tripp while he's fixing up the nooses that it was all an accident. She only needed to pull that trigger once to spook the guy. Why keep doing it thinking it will never fire? Yes it was a poorly executed situation to get her and Javier in trouble for no reason but it's still cannon and relevant.
None of them have the same personality and ways of thinking but situationally the characters are taking on previous roles. Whether AJ wants Clementine's protection or not he is getting it since he is not big enough to say or force otherwise. Like little Clementine didn't have much say over if she wanted Lee to watch over her and do as he says. The final season's front cover even reveals how this idea is repeatedly identical to season one's mission.
You are wrong. Telltale said for themselves, it's not the same. You'll see that AJ will do exaggerated things to protect Clementine, he's the most basass there is.
What's not the same? Their personalities?
I'm not talking about that only situation and position.
I'm trying to say that the idea of the story is not the same as the first season. Clem was a sweet girl (she's still sweet, but tough) and AJ is really not sweet, he's too tough. During this season AJ can get panic attacks, madness to protect Clementine, it's really not the same idea as one season. In one season the goal was to protect the little girl, here the goal is more to educate and make AJ understand this world. Because Clem is still a child herself, there are many different things in their relationship to the relationship in season one.
I must ask who is. AJ's guardian?
Then I must ask who was Clementine's guardian?
Then I must ask what are the similarities between the two?
What did AJ and Clementine have in common in the apocalypse? = Guardians
What did Clementine and Lee have in common in the apocalypse?
=Young child to care for.
When these questions are answered in unison my point is thus manifested.
I talked about aspects deeper than that.
yeah, yeah, I forgot the reply button was a thing, I hadn't had any sleep and I don't post a lot. Hanlon's Razor.
You made the claim that AJ was a sociopath, that puts the burden of proof on you not me. What makes someone a sociopath is that they are incapable of empathy. That's what you need to prove, otherwise it's just a bunch of bullshit armchair psychology. I mean, "hitting, biting", you just described every little kid ever at one point or another. This behavior can be much more easily attributed to trauma, judging by the context that was given in the game. And him not "feeling any kind of remorse," you've seen what, 15 minutes of ep 2? Even if he didn't, that doesn't make him a sociopath either. Sociopath is not a synonym for asshole. It looks to me like you're just looking for punchy words.
As for me "attacking you," I didn't call you names, I didn't say anything about your mom, I said your opinion was dumb. Yeah, man, you're free to think whatever you want about a fictional character. That's fine. But if you're going to put that opinion out publicly on a forum, you shouldn't be surprised if it gets criticized publicly. Particularly if you're presenting that opinion as a statement of fact.
Fine then. He murdered a defensless person, who my Clem was going to lock up for a while, he doesn’t care about the feelings of others apart from his maternal figure (which is why I got the stealing the toys argument from) he stays up in the middle of knife holding a blade, he disregards a dead couple’s dying wishes, he enjoys bashing the walker piñata if you choose to do that, he wants you to kill the baby rabbit, he gets “satisfied” when you push Abel into the herd and finally, as a bonus, one of his outcomes is “ruthless”.
If these aren’t the signs of a clear sociopath in the making then I don’t know what is, because normal people certainly wouldn’t do or feel these things. I rest my case.
Jesus Christ, making me read and write focken essays. Speaking of which you read none of my post did you? First off, I wasn’t picking any fights, I was giving you honest advice. Don’t like honesty? Then the telltale forums just isn’t for you because it’s full of it.
Further evidence you didn’t read my post that I put a good 5 mins into properly, I said I was JOKING when I said I wanted AJ dead, J-O-K-I-N-G. I’m cruel but I’m not that cruel.
Alright, I’ll admit that I worded that sentence a little wrong. What I meant to say was that you condoned all of his actions, but the best reason I got was “he was born in a certain type of world” bro fam, Tenn was a baby when the apocalypse started, he doesn’t remember a world before that, not enough of it anyway, he obviously knows the basics that all toddlers know (such as policemen and firemen) but still...he’s an apocalypse child. Now what does this have to do with my point? How about not pulling a weapon on Marlon despite him selling his sisters into slavery? As well as being a “threat” according to you. Marlon did nothing to AJ. Was extremely kind to him throughout the episode, yet it was AJ who killed him, not Tenn.
Lol why would anyone kill the couple? Clem looked through the gate and there were no walkers in sight, perfectly safe to send AJ through. (Sure the same happened in season 2, but Clementine likely thought that the walker on the floor was dead) and you’re apparently trying to justify bandits, raiders and antagonist groups? Not Lee’s group, the cabin survivors or the reborn new frontier? How about Prescott? That place was full of weirdos and Ava still described it as a good place. Again, you’re not thinking about the whole situation, you’re only focusing on one thing and one thing only. (Also as a few honourable mentions from the comics we have Alexandria, the hilltop, Oceanside and the kingdom who don’t kill and steal) so yeah, clearly not everyone in the apocalypse is a bloodthirsty psycho because these groups have a fuck tonne of sane people in them.
You said that I was basically comparing Marlon to a puppy, that there is enough to say that you thought I was justifying his actions. I wouldn’t compare somebody to something like that unless I thought that they were good and their actions were justifiable.
So you’re now admitting that Arvo was no threat when he was disarmed? So what about Marlon then? Was he a threat or not a threat? Arvo clearly wanted your group dead, he sent his people to steal from you as revenge for what Jane did... Marlon just gave up, Arvo shot a child. How can you seriously justify Arvo but not Marlon? (Not saying that I justify him, just making an analogy)
Come back with actual evidence cos I’m getting overwhelmed by the mass levels of stubbornness. Admit I’m right about at least some of these points, then it’s forgive and forget
That explains it.
These are legitimate signs to tell if someone is a sociopath in a functioning society. Being birthed into world where you have to constantly worry about being eaten by walking corpse’s and getting killed or worse by dangerously fucked up people would make any newborn kid a “sociopath” if you followed these rules.
You place sociopath in quotations as if it's some evil nickname or slur. I'd rather hoped to dispel some common misconceptions regarding that diagnosis. Kirkman's creation has birthed a world where sociopaths are far more common place -- not only in the children birthed into the world, but it has given rise to adults that develop it. Being a sociopath still doesn't make a person good or evil. There are several that are high functioning that serve well even in today's society.
It does! What Alegra is trying to say is that Clementine and AJ's dynamic is fresh and interesting, as evidenced by the teaser gameplay for EP2, because AJ feels the need to protect Clem, although this isn't the main part of the game. Excuse my language, but I think what you're saying is rather obvious and, as Alegra said, (she?) spoke about aspects far deeper than that. Hope that clears things up.
Only thing I was saying was AJ should take the place of Clem far as growing up in the apocalypse in the future like Clem has and Clem eventually sacrificing herself to be with and like Lee again in like a "history repeats itself" concept. Nothing about personalities or whether AJ wants to protect Clementine.
What I said may have been obvious but still true. AJ can want to protect Clem all he wants but he's not presently going to be more efficient at dispatching walkers and fending off attacking survivors without a gun more than Clem. Even Clem still struggles a lot still and AJ although a boy is a little boy and considerably weaker than her and less capable until he's older. Like if Clem (when she was the puny season one version) wanted to protect Lee she could desire to do that all she wants and kind of has on a couple occasions when given a gun like AJ. but she'd never been more efficient than Lee and even now still isn't. Now that I think of it I'm sure Clem when smaller highly likely wanted to protect Lee from harm just as much as AJ wishes to with Clem in the present day.
We were saying different things essentially and I don't really disagree but AJ wanting to protect his guardian is also obvious and nothing new. Gabe wanted to protect Javi most of the time just was miserable ? ? at it. And Becca would likely want to protect Shel. These looking out for your loved ones personalities are nothing special or unique. Unless there is yet a deeper meaning still hidden from my understanding.
D'uh! Yeah, I know. In the EP2 teaser it seemed like Clem wasn't taking AJ seriously enough to his satisfaction. She knew that it was her job, that AJ was still little, and shouldn't have to go on 'patrol' for her. I think it's supposed to be cute yet dark. Clem puts AJ in his place by saying 'you're still little' it's such a powerful and provocative.
What made it dark?
You don't say?
Probably the fact that AJ was crouched on a tabletop with staring at a knife next to where she was sleeping?
Considering the common daily way of life they live it just sounds like a regular night in the walking dead. Often settlements will have one group member remain awake keeping armed guard over the community. Maybe it was dark to some but to me I got nothing significantly ominous toned from that scene. Or I'm just hard hearted or ought to rewatch it, though Lee's fate was a bit misty eyed inducing for me.