Is TWD: ANF really "that bad?"
I read here and there, about ANF being generally "bad".
Recently I played it, and... I don't know, I feel I genuinely liked it.
There are some questionable points (for example, "MY" Clementine is more unselfish than the one seen at the start of Ep. 1... but, maybe, years alone in the Z.A. can change you) however some things are great: Javier's character is fantastic, and the plot of the "two brothers" is cool, heavy, deep. I think the first reason people not liked ANF is that "you aren't Clementine", because she is only marginally supporting the player.
I don't see ANF as "guilty" of the decline of the series.
I absolutely LOVED season 1, a masterpiece in all the videogames history, and liked "enough" Season 2.
ANF at last/at least IS good.
Soon I'll start to play TFS, with a heavy heart, because of all we heard (or... we HERD? LOL) about TWD's future.
I'd put 50 (millions) cents to Telltale developers:
Despite an obsolete 3D engine, difficult working conditions, interchanging people between teams, economic difficulties, they created a great experience (intended as SERIES, not only ANF) that will remain alive our memory.
It deserved an... end. Hope we'll see one, soon or late.
Comments
because of all we heard (or... we HERD? LOL)
Joke of the year friend
Yes it's really really fucking bad,it's so bad it destroyed Telltale.
i don't really want to get into this again,but to keep it short :
Clem is not the main character,and we're playing as Javier instead
They completely butchered our season 2 endings
The episodes are fucking short
The fucking lies
The graphics are awful
Joan is a shitty villain
Gabentine
And there's probably more,so yes it's bad.
1) TWD Season1's main character is Lee, not Clementine. BUT it's SO great.
So... that's NOT the problem, imho.
2) right, but with that big step (years) from S2 to ANF, it's acceptable to see those events.
3) ok, pretty short. But the entire season, in its sum, seems long enough to me.
4) what?
5) graphics are fine for me. Different, but fine. Plus, the look of the zombies (AND the number of them on-screen) is so much improved. Do you remember the "2D herd" close to Atlanta, in Season 1? Big improvements here.
6) Not that bad, I seen worse in other games
7) Gabe seems to me a weak character, yup.
It's pretty bad.
After ANF a lot of people lost interest in Telltale Games. That's how bad it was
What are you saying it's "Acceptable" ?
They KILLED Kenny and Jane in episode 1 in like FIVE MINUTES.
Did you see Kenny and Jane's models in episode 1 ? Their models were so bad they had to fix them in episode 4.
The graphics are AWFUL.Just look at these low texture zombies at the end of episode 4 or the crowd in episode 4,the game looks really bad imo.
That's not an excuse.
A lot of people lost interest in Telltale games before that,but ANF was the last straw.
With the exception of Conrad , David and Javier i dint really like any of the characters in ANF not to mention the fact that the season 2 endings were wasted ((Honestly Jane and Kenny would have probably died even without the bad writing since telltale wrote themselves into a corner with how to use Jane and Kenny due to giving the player the option to shoot Kenny after he kills Jane Which made it so that they couldnt just use them like they used Doug and Carley in season 1.))
I don't think is that bad either. I liked it more than Season 2 which was an even bigger mess.
ANF was the definition of a mess. Nearly nothing worked.
I liked ANF for what it was. And it was a lot of things. "Good" isn't exactly one of them.
People seemed to have problems with not playing as Clem. I never had an issue with that. I personally believe we NEVER should've played as Clementine until TFS. I always believe we should've played as a different character. That way our choices would be shown through her reactions. We had to be careful around her and protect her as Lee. Play as Omid and/or Christa and give her continued guidance. Play as Javier as her friend. And then finally play as Clementine herself. I feel like that would've worked better. Playing AS Clem was never a necessity for my enjoyment.
The other reasons have already been said numerous times. Not to mention the game was buggy and glitchy as all hell as if they didn't check it out before releasing it. Jesus not being tied up vs being tied up is twisted. Seeing Clem behind Javier after she leaves you and Gabe behind after shooting Conrad. Seeing Tripp walking when he was supposed to be dead. Pretty sure I'm missing a few.
ANF was NOT a ready project, graphically nor narratively, but it was advertised and presented as one which resulted in its almost immediate downfall. Telltale has had mediocre games, but it's not a stretch to say that ANF is their worst project and least ambitious work on all accounts.
I didn't find ANF that bad. Was it the best of all TWDG? No. However I went in with no expectations and came out with a mostly positive experience.
As to your points...
1) They wanted to try a new angle I suppose, but they clearly underestimated the energy people put into the first two games and into Clementine.
2) How else can they resolve a messy string of different outcomes? Both Jane and Kenny are determinant, where you go is a determinant. There was no clean solution, and the writers weren't about to start writing 3+ story lines to keep everyone happy. It was a bad idea to have so many different ending with season 2 to begin with unless they were going to completely end Clem's story there.
3) Yeah, I can agree with that.
4) Huh? Lies? No clue what you're talking about there.
5) The graphics were okay but the changes in textures to existing characters like Clem didn't match our previous experiences and make the experience slightly jarring for me.
6) The whole faction of A New Frontier and the reveal of Joan being the mastermind could have been handled far better as an antagonistic force, I'll give you that as well.
7) I'll give that to you as well. A forced relationship between Gabe and Clem was... so... cheesy. Not that I was against a relationship, but with Gabe? Seriously? He whines every two seconds...
I totally get why people don't like ANF. There's a lot of questionable stuff about it, and even as someone that still relatively liked it, I still found it to be undoubtedly the weakest entry thus far. But I still think people exaggerate just how bad it is.
You have every right to dislike it. To hate it, even. But let's not act like it is 100% without a doubt the biggest hunk of shit to ever (dis)grace the gaming industry. There's about a hundred other games far more deserving of that mantle than this.
I mean really, are you honestly telling me this game deserves to be lumped next to stuff like Big Rigs? E.T? Ride to Hell: Retribution? Say whatever you want, but at least a modicum of effort was put into ANF. There's some games-- games that were sold on shelves for actual money, mind you-- that are downright criminal they were that bad. ANF, for all its faults, doesn't even scratch the surface of truly bad games as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it did some damage to Telltale, but that pales in comparison to some of the "feats" of other terrible games. It didn't fail to deliver on every fundamental level expected of a functional game. It isn't a game that barely classifies as an alpha that somehow made it to actual store shelves. It didn't contribute to a crash of the entire gaming industry, and had excess copies of it buried in the desert. It didn't get to a point where gaming sites outright refused to even give it a review because it was that shitty. It didn't cause the developer to get absolutely erased from existence, where the people that worked on it fell off the face of the earth afterwards. ANF's crimes in comparison are like stealing a purse versus the systematic murder of every orphan in a fifty mile radius.
Have fun! Credit to @MetallicaRules and Dartigan and GCN.
ANF makes a ton of mistakes but not all of them are within the narrative. Many of them are just contestation with the established story. I'll try to come up with a few here.
First and foremost it must be established that making a season with a new main character and a new story entirely was an extremely dumb decision. I cannot understand why anyone in Telltale thought it was a good idea to just up and abandon the main perspective we have followed so far; Clementine's. Even if the story would have been written without any dents in its apperance there would still be a huge amount of fans that feel alientated that the story they have been invested in so far got sidelined to give priority to a complete nobody.
Secondly, making Clementine a secondary character and thus making her story secondary was also a huge mistake. Again, I cannot understand why anyone thought it would work. The only thing Clementine added to the season was distractions. It was a cruel decision for everyone, for the writers, for the fans, for Clementine and especially for Javier. How was he supposed to establish himself in his own story when all the players just wanted to know what happened to Clementine next.
Thirdly, the family. One of the main design decisions with the original walking dead was to change Clementine's big brother, who was going to be the PC, into a stranger. The point of that decision is because you can't just throw a player into a family dynamic and expect them to at all care for that family. That relation takes time to build, and making Lee a stranger gives him the same perspective on Clementine as the player has. ANF discarded that basic concept completely and expected us to care for Kate romantically and for Gabriels teen angst. The only one we quickly grow to like is Mariana and that's just because she's sweet and supportive. The only reason she's written like that is to make her death dramatic, a death that we, when it comes down to it, didn't give a damn about in the end. The only comment people make in Mariana's death by the end of the season is "I wish it was Gabriel," and that says more about Gabriel's character than Mariana's.
So now I get into some more minor points but they all drag down the story overall.
Clementine. She has nothing to do. Within the narrative itself she's just so weirdly tacked on. You could remove her and AJ from the story completely and nothing would really change.
Gabriel. The kid refuses to learn. He's a dramatic point throughout the story and players are annoyed with him when his character never optains any worth. The real ending should have had Gabriel saving David or Kate depending on how you interacted with him.
Determinant. The whole Tripp/Ava thing? That was dumb right? We get to pick one, the other dies; fine. I don't think that's a bad way to induce some drama into the story and make a choice have immediate impact. What's offensive though is how the survivor is just discarded in the next episode. Conrad can live to the end, Lindgard can too, but Tripp and Ava gets offed because Telltale doesn't know what to do with them? Ridiculous.
Kenny/Jane. This point is made so often that I almost feel like I don't have to. They were discarded and our choice of ending in season 2 completely invalidated. This is another casualty of including Clementine in Javier's story. The writers didn't want to deal with that element so they just poppoed it like a cyst.
Kate. Or rather, he romance. I didn't mind Kate herself. But the romance angle is just pushed so far. I was really annoyed that I couldn't just play Javier as not intersted. Even when you avoid the romantic interactions she still concludes that there was something between them. It should be possible to play the game in a way that Kate's confession doesn't come up at all in the last episode. That would have been a proper string of choice and consequence.
David. Even when you go out of your way to accomodate and fit within his worldview he ends up gong Gorilla on you. I would be okay with it as a point to his character usually, but it was annoying that Kate was th ecatalyst to it, even when you aren't interested in her at all.
Despite what it might seem I don't hate ANF in off itself. I think Telltale made a ton of mistakes. Clementine's story should have been concluded and the franchise given a break before starting a new story. In the end ANF never had a chance to stand on its own, Telltale made sure of that long before we could even form opinions on it ourselves.
I know that,but that's not an excuse,they killed Kenny and Jane in five minutes in the first episode,Kenny dies in a fucking car crash and Jane just killed herself it's disgusting and a huge slap in the face,you have to remember that we waited YEARS to see Kenny and Jane again YEARS.And that's what the players get ? Uh uh,not an excuse.
They lied many times to the fans,one thing i remember in particular was when they said that episode 1 was too long and they had to split it in two,that's the worst thing they've ever said.
The game had a lot of rewrites too,they had absolutely no fucking idea what they were doing,
i don't even know if i should call this a "game",there's barely any hubs in the game.
Seriously this game is bad it's not worth playing imo.
to be honest i wish clems arc finished in s2 cause then it lets us have the type of clem we wanted aka family first (with kenny) , hopeful cause she hoped for something of a normal life there (at wellington) , kind survivalist (with jane / family) , safety first (turn family away) and loner (alone) thats why cause then there are actual different clems. But i think they still should have ANF just they shouldnt have forced clem in and maybe resume her arc in s4 .
It's my least favorite Telltale game, but even ANF had some interesting aspects, which were mostly discarded but still. There are just so many baffling narrative decisions in it.
The flashbacks were horrible. Not only are they undeserving to the characters, but they really didn't do much outside of filling out the blanks with the exception of the E4 flashbacks. As I said in another thread, they should've killed off Kenny/Jane/Wellington by the hands of The New Frontier. It would not only make their deaths more impactful and interesting, it would also greatly help justifying Clementine's hatred against them and make her relationship with Javier and David much more interesting.
They also killed the wrong Garcia at the end of episode 1. Mariana had so much more potential than Gabe and she wouldn't have fallen into the trap of being an annoying brat when the story needed drama. Her relationship with David would have also been much more interesting, because she is such a nice human being and the complete opposite of David, which could've led to a much more heartbreaking arc for both of them in the end, where both realise, that David is just too far gone. Thinking about the possibilities makes me more sad than the actual story.
Clementine not being the playable character was never a problem for me personally. Season Two already had problems adjusting to the fact that the player doesn't control an adult anymore and i'd imagine ANF would be the same. I also like Javier. At least when he has more of a laid back attitude.
I'm not a fan of the side characters, though. At all. None of them have the appeal of even the Cabin Group of S2. Luke, Alvin, Carlos or Rebecca were much better developed and integrated into the story than Tripp, Conrad, Ava or even Jesus.
It's not the worst thing ever made, but definetly the worst thing Telltale has ever made.
Yes.
Basically reiterated all my problems concerning the wasted potential of Mariana. The more I think about it though, the more it honestly triggers me just how messy this ended up being.
It shouldn't have been Mariana. There's reasons why Mariana died. But look at the writing of characters instead. Television - we have seen so many good characters who take the role of Javier and Gabe, but they have better characters. It shouldn't have been Mariana - but it shouldn't have been Gabe either. I'd have a teenager still, but someone who listens, isn't willing to stand out or always moan about not being good enough.
Fear The Walking Dead had a good character - Nick. Maybe we could've had someone like him instead. Someone like Luke. See what I did there?
i liked it, didnt impact me enough but i liked it
ANF was a mistake that made a huge dent to the series
Truth be told I loved and cared about the characters in ANF way more than the characters in S2 and TFS, where anyone not named Kenny, Clem, or AJ can pretty much go screw themselves. But yeah the pacing is pretty bad and even he plot itself is pretty lackluster, with plenty of plotholes.
Mans actually just said that Carlos and Rebecca > Tripp and Conrad get outta here?
That's how I feel. Sorry.
Both Conrad and Tripp are very poorly developed characters. Especially Tripp is just ... there. He's barely a character with how inconsequencial he acts.
There's honestly not a single character in ANF that gets a good character-arc, really.
While Carlos is definetly one of the weaker characters in S2, at least he is an actual character with a hint of depth. Him being the father of Sarah makes him automatically more engaging than Tripp. Rebecca has probably one of the stronger developements of S2, too.
Season Two has flaws, but it's miles ahead of whatever the fuck ANF turned out to be.
All season 2 endings were made completely defunct. No matter whether clem was at wellington or on the road with kenny, her place in ANF is always the same. Playing as Javier wasn’t that great and the focus switching to him feels completely disjointed from S1 and S2.
The episodes being so short only undermines the quality of the story and characters. ANF is by far the most linear TWDG season, which is why it had poor sales. Truly the only moderately impactful differentiation you can have across playthroughs is killing conrad or letting him take clementine. There is hardly any reason to replay thisseason, or to even bother playing it in the first place.
Clem’s role in this game is to be bitter and lonely then find out AJ is alive, and at the end she goes looking for him. That’s all she has to do in this game whatsoever.
Most of the characters suck too. David is clearly just another kenny, while tripp and eleanor are just there. Max and badger are only here to give you something to have fun with; killing them. Joan is an absolute sham of a villain, if you take flints plan she just dissapears for all of episode 5. If you shoot her, you barely suffer any consequences at all. My playthrough of this season has felt so meaningless and uninspired.
The Garcia family as the central emotional stake in the game practically falls on its face when kate uncharacteristically wants to help richmond after wanting to do nothing but get away. You can reject kate all you want but david will still fight you...and gabe? Just another ben. He tries to help but fucks up a lot. He’s just another ben except I can’t kill him in episode 4.
There is one.
Conrad.
So this is an unpopular opinion here but Conrad had a pretty good arc in the game (if you didn't kill him in episode 2),and i really liked what they did with him (even in episode 4),it's sad that they didn't give him more screentime in episode 5.
Conrad is the only good thing in this game imo.
As some have already mentioned before, the reason why ANF isn't that well received was because many players were expecting the continuation, after Clem either
a) Went on her own
b) Goes with Jane
c) Goes with Kenny
But they didn't get to see that, instead all they got was some flash backs. There were also some parts of the game I would like to see as well especially,
Wellington, since they've talked about it for so long. It would be nice to see how the inside looks like, and how Clementine and AJ's lives were like, while they were inside that place.
I personally like ANF, it wasn't that bad as some have said. Maybe it's because I treated the game with a open mind and see it as new chapter in Clementine's story line, rather than a continuation of season 2. If they did decided to continue, it might have drag on a lot longer than, they would have wanted.
I mean, yeah he kind off has, at least compared to the other characters, but it's still not really all that good. It helps that he's determinant, but I still didn't feel his character.
I've mentioned this before in a thread I made but I will say it again. There is a difference between enjoying a game and forming your opinion by looking objectively at the game. If I look at ANF, I would give it a 7/10 for the enjoying factor, but a 4/10 If I try to look at the story and characters in a more analyzing way - (With questions like these: What are the problems with the story and the characters?)
Pretty much
Why would you say Conrad and Tripp are more poorly developed then Rebecca and Carlos? Rebecca wasn't that interesting for me at all tbh. And don't get me started with Carlos. All we know about him is that he was a doctor and nothing more. And Clementine BARELY interacts with him. And in my opinion Tripp didn't really need much developement, he was already a self determined character. Conrad on the other hand is far more interesting then both Rebecca and Carlos combined. Not only is he the only determinant character to survive a season, but also a determinant character that had more scenes then any determinant season 2 character had.
I don't think Carlos had any depth. I would say his character might be just as weak as Tripp or maybe even worse. The bond between Carlos and Sarah wasn't really that strong in season 2. In my opinion the Garcias had a better bond then Carlos and Sarah.
What developments do you mean?
I liked Rebecca's self-doubt wether or not she could even raise a child in the apocalypse. Or her relationship with Carver.
The problem with Carlos is that they hinted at him being more dangerous but they never followed through with that. That's why he's one of the weaker characters.
In ANF, they didn't do anything with Tripp. At all.
Indeed. But all Telltale games are enjoyable. I had so much fun playing Minecraft Story Mode and Guardians and GoT, but I know how bad the writing of those games actually are.
The thing with ANF was it was the culmination of everything that was wrong with Telltale as a company and its management, and it all came to a head at this time. You can see it start to appear in some of the other games a bit before like Michonne, Minecraft, etc., but this is where everything just collapsed, and this is the moment where a lot of people thought that Telltale "lost it." I can easily talk about the problems with the game itself, but it's been done to death, so we need to look at the "why" it turned out so bad.
There was just so much internal conflict within the company at this time, and it resulted in Telltale forgetting what it had set out to do. It's all well documented, and I encourage you take the time and read some of the stuff that's been written. The Verge has some great articles in regards to this, you can look at the Glassdoor reviews, and look at some of the comments made by now former Telltale staff. Basically, to sum it up, Telltale was poorly run, management was too involved, and Bruner was an incompetent dick who ran his own company into the ground. Employees were overworked, sometimes even verbally abused, management would force them to rewrite something on very little notice, and the focus shifted from producing quality content to quantity, hoping that more games would mean more profit, but that never came to fruition, and ultimately, ANF was a victim of this. Management was so bad that, during the season alone, Brad Kane, Pierre Shorette, Nick Herman, Adam Sarasohn, and Dennis Lenart all left Telltale, and these people were involved with TWD at multiple points (Kane was the lead writer for both parts of Ties That Bind and the Season Writing Lead, and he left midway through the game). Bruner was basically forced out of the company midway through the season as well.
EDIT: Thank you @Jennifer for approving this comment.
Okay, I'm trying to post a comment, but I keep getting a message saying that it will appear after it's been approved, what the hell? But for some reason, this comment posts fine, but the comment I want to post is not showing up.
Maybe the reason is the size of the comment that you want to post?
I'll admit it's not a short comment, but I've posted much larger ones before, hell, just the other day I did, and I didn't need some sort of approval or anything. Since when did these posts have a character limit?
That's really weird. What's happening to these forums lately?!
They never did. I've seen some pretty long posts before and they don't need approval. Approval? What did you do, Metallica?! Approve of what?!