The counter to my own argument though is that Minerva chose to stay. Now you can assume a certain level of conditioning I guess but it does … moresuggest that the situation in the Delta might actually be pretty good. I don’t know.
I guess we’re not really given all that much information to go on so there is a lot of speculation involved.
This is definitely true, although they appeared well equip for a group of survivors. They had weapons for all of their members. Guns and ammunition which is a scarce item to still possess this far into the end times as well as melee / tools for combat.
When we have an adequate view of the boat on the Delta, they seem damn near privileged lol. During the walker section when we approach, their snipers are very good. It has this odd mix of a cohesive strike team on the boat, and a bumbling red shirt capture team for the school raid.
I definitely feel like this is an area that could've been improved to benefit the story a lot more. Not that Able wasn't just amazing if they were going for a comedy version of Walking Dead. He was like that Monty Python Black Knight.
Being at war in no way implies that they were equipped or smart enough to win that war. Or any war. They were desperate enough to try to tak… moree kids even after they fought back. Personally I reckon the second they lost a guy, that fight was no longer worth it because they had more to lose than gain. But you could read into that that they were absolutely desperate. Desperation rarely makes people smarter.
This is definitely true, although they appeared well equip for a group of survivors. They had weapons for all of their members. Guns and amm… moreunition which is a scarce item to still possess this far into the end times as well as melee / tools for combat.
When we have an adequate view of the boat on the Delta, they seem damn near privileged lol. During the walker section when we approach, their snipers are very good. It has this odd mix of a cohesive strike team on the boat, and a bumbling red shirt capture team for the school raid.
I definitely feel like this is an area that could've been improved to benefit the story a lot more. Not that Able wasn't just amazing if they were going for a comedy version of Walking Dead. He was like that Monty Python Black Knight.
No. The only difference would have been the model. Lilly had a major personality change this season, therefore chances are extremely high that whoever the new person would have been, would have had the exact same dialogue, the exact same scenes and the exact same death as Lilly did.
Make the Delta more gray instead of being the Red Army.
More hubs, more getting to know the characters .
Mor eLilly screentime and reference to past events. It makes the seasons feel connected. The little things matter and as @Poogers555 said it gives a powerful payoff
In group conflict does make things more interesting and fleshes out of the characters instead of lal being "Da nice good guys"
Multiple endings
Don't let the antagonist die before the final episode. You're setting up yourself for failure.
Introduction of the other group. Underwhelming we know nothing about them.
Different AJs. At least two. This supposedly was meant to mean something but it ends up the same regardless.
More deteriminate characters. Make them feel valuable.
No. The only difference would have been the model. Lilly had a major personality change this season, therefore chances are extremely high th… moreat whoever the new person would have been, would have had the exact same dialogue, the exact same scenes and the exact same death as Lilly did.
for starters id say having 5 episodes:
episode 1 could play out mostly the same except the Ruby and Marlon squabble never happens and we finish with everyone alive.
Episode 2 would continue to focus on the group maybe having more scenes with characters like Aasim and Mitch (maybe a subplot about fully dropping the safezone after Clem managed to bring back so many supplies with different characters having different opinions on it.) ,Some more scenes where Marlon starts looking even more shady and an increasing conflict between Clem and Brody which would eventually lead to her accidentally dropping a hint about the delta and panicking away from the conversation. it would escalate into the same finale of Done running.
episode 3 would be the same as suffer the children.
for episode 4 id say leave it somewhat the same as Broken toys except instead of Lily being fully ruthless make her still threatening but more hesitant like in suffer the children s ´´We were family once´´ scene, meanwhile the scenes where body parts were cut off would be handled by Dorian establishing for a short time a sort of rivalry between her and Lily where both are in charge but Dorian would be the more ruthless one and hand out the punishments Lily orders in the original episode.
Episode 5: Take us back just needs a full rewrite.
A lot of choices in choice-based games don't overall impact the ending. But they can sometimes alter the journey. Plus, a lot of the choices in TWD are morally based. In S1 - you can either shoot the woman in the street or let her distract the walkers. Sure, she dies no matter what, but it's a test to see where the player's morality lies in the appocalypse. Same with Larry - yes he dies no matter what, but that choice affects the journey with Kenny and Lilly. I think the choices were intended for the player to look inside themselves and put them in Lee's shoes. Are you the kind of person who'd smash in a guys head? Or would you try to save him? I could go on and on about all the moral choices, but you for sure know what I'm gettin at.
An extra episode to tighten up some incomplete or incoherent plotlines would have gone a long way, choices actually mattering in the finale instead of not at all, a satisfying ending for players regardless of what they chose, less of a focus on action and more of a focus on the somber tone the series is best known for, getting rid of like 40% of those little shits and just keeping the most interesting ones, writing Lilly like she wasn't a Kenny fanboy's wetdream and actually making her the complex character she was set up to be (but never followed up on) in season one, telling us where the fuck Christa went, erasing large portions of seasons 2 and 3 from history, giving AJ a character of his own outside of what Clem molds him into, etc, etc.
Choices mattering more. A lot more. I know telltale was virtually bankrupt at the time, but they promised a lot that they didn’t deliver, and they knew that they were making promises they couldn’t keep...feels like we were kind of lied to, and I can’t tell if that’s just disappointing, annoying or in some crazy way justifiable.
Sadly it seems eps 3 and 4 came out just as they planned according to Kent Mundle. Obviously most might go "Well hes going to say that nothing was changed or cut because it looks bad to admit things being removed" but he's mentioned things like how the final episode went just as planned and the final draft was finished months before and discussed earlier drafts before that which followed the same story format with smaller tweaks to the point Im pretty positive this was the original vision in its fullest.
(Also he now straight up admitted the David spit thing was never planned to be anything important later in the game, so they cut the Wellington ending for nothing)
Choices mattering more. A lot more. I know telltale was virtually bankrupt at the time, but they promised a lot that they didn’t deliver, an… mored they knew that they were making promises they couldn’t keep...feels like we were kind of lied to, and I can’t tell if that’s just disappointing, annoying or in some crazy way justifiable.
(Also he now straight up admitted the David spit thing was never planned to be anything important later in the game, so they cut the Wellington ending for nothing)
Which is really infuriating. Like you make it seem like each and every choice will matter, and they do, except that one. It's like they did intend for all of them to matter in some form, big or small, but with this one they just gave up and thought, 'eh, the players will forget'. At the very least just don't include it in the story-builder! There were also so many other choices that you could've included, but you put in that instead. And the fans were speculating all the time about what this would mean, but no, you can't count on these guys to do anything compelling with the last 2 episodes. No, the final bait and switch doesn't count.
I'm also annoyed by the Ranch flashback (just including this because I'm lazy and want to get it out of the way). It was built up for so long and there were references in every episode, lots of fan speculation, and then "it was raided!!". I thought they were going to do a plot-twist or something, something that relates to Clem's trauma and her face, I thought she might have killed innocents because she gave up on life and would do anything just to fulfill her goal of getting back AJ, becoming Kenny, but no. And the pointless line about Richmond being too dangerous, why was that there? Why did it take a year for her to get there? Wasn't it only a few miles north? Remember when everyone was like 'ooh I wonder what the explanation will be for why they didn't go back to Richmond'? Well nah, it's a war-zone. Everything is so one-note.
Sadly it seems eps 3 and 4 came out just as they planned according to Kent Mundle. Obviously most might go "Well hes going to say that nothi… moreng was changed or cut because it looks bad to admit things being removed" but he's mentioned things like how the final episode went just as planned and the final draft was finished months before and discussed earlier drafts before that which followed the same story format with smaller tweaks to the point Im pretty positive this was the original vision in its fullest.
(Also he now straight up admitted the David spit thing was never planned to be anything important later in the game, so they cut the Wellington ending for nothing)
I wish the whole _"gotcha!" _ending with Clem almost dying should have been rejected altogether for something a little more original. Telltale went for a full circle-type theme for the final episode to troll the player's fears about Clem getting axed, and that's the kind of stunt storytelling that turned me off the comic book as much as the television show.
You know what would have been going against expectations while providing a better conclusion for Clem's story? Having AJ bitten instead. Someone on this board suggested a scenario where AJ becomes infected (he's bitten multiple times on the arms, legs, and torso, making amputation pointless), and Clem has to wrestle with the unpleasant decision of how to go about killing him. How AJ ultimately responds in this scenario would depend on our interactions with him throughout the season.
If you're a fan of AJ, I apologize in advance for bumming you out. But personally speaking, I haven't seen a lot of love on these boards for AJ. He never quite earned our respect and love in the way Clem did, IMO.
Ranch Flashback was a joke. Build up forever and its pretty meaningless once it happens. The AJ trauma thing was just dropped, Clem having such terrible nightmares made no sense as shes arguably seen way worse. The idea of Clem probably killed innocent people goes no where. I honestly would have preferred some sort of big twist and revelation than whatever the fuck they were going for.
Also I honestly feel like the Richmond mention was because they were half way through and forgot and needed a reason why after seeing so many people mention it. Some terrible excuse to not go back, and like you said, a few miles north = takes over a year to find Aj.
(Also he now straight up admitted the David spit thing was never planned to be anything important later in the game, so they cut the Welling… moreton ending for nothing)
Which is really infuriating. Like you make it seem like each and every choice will matter, and they do, except that one. It's like they did intend for all of them to matter in some form, big or small, but with this one they just gave up and thought, 'eh, the players will forget'. At the very least just don't include it in the story-builder! There were also so many other choices that you could've included, but you put in that instead. And the fans were speculating all the time about what this would mean, but no, you can't count on these guys to do anything compelling with the last 2 episodes. No, the final bait and switch doesn't count.
I'm also annoyed by the Ranch flashback (just including this because I'm lazy and want to get it out of the way). It was built up for so … [view original content]
I agree, AJ and Clem's dynamic is really bad compared to Lee and Clem's.
I think a big problem with Final Season and its ending is I feel like it has no clue what theme it even wants. Clem has no character arch, or atleast a good one. Like its what? "Finding a home." Thats been a main plot for these games and stories for years now, it isnt an arch. Taking care of a kid isnt an arch either, its mean to serve an arch, not be the arch. I feel like a lot of people forget how Season 1 was a redemption story for Lee and how a main selling point was you play as an ex-convict given a second chance in the world and by the end of the game it goes full circle in a more meaningful way, this time hes in handcuffs but not because his crime.
Also later Telltale games seemed to forget the main character is a character. Later telltale games feel way more like the protagonist is just "the player" and goes through no archs and I feel like thats a large reason why later games felt so bland as our main character doesnt change much through the hardships. There just arnt any scenes that focus on our character. Season 1 for example has scenes with Lee and Clem that feel waaaay more natrual than Clem and AJ. Theres also plenty of scenes that focus on just Lee and his actions like the Stranger in Ep 5, where we can finally hear what Lee thinks about the whole killing wife's lover thing.
Final season just feels like a weird re-hash of season 1 instead of feeling like a continuation of all seasons for a huge season finale that was built up this whole time. Instead of doing something more unique that feels like there was proper build up to a powerful character arch, they just copied season 1's final season said sike and called it a day.
I wish the whole _"gotcha!" _ending with Clem almost dying should have been rejected altogether for something a little more original. Tellta… morele went for a full circle-type theme for the final episode to troll the player's fears about Clem getting axed, and that's the kind of stunt storytelling that turned me off the comic book as much as the television show.
You know what would have been going against expectations while providing a better conclusion for Clem's story? Having AJ bitten instead. Someone on this board suggested a scenario where AJ becomes infected (he's bitten multiple times on the arms, legs, and torso, making amputation pointless), and Clem has to wrestle with the unpleasant decision of how to go about killing him. How AJ ultimately responds in this scenario would depend on our interactions with him throughout the season.
If you're a fan of AJ, I apologize in advance for bumming you out. But personally speaking, I haven't … [view original content]
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also be important, as the most important thing in a person's mind is their trauma:
Now, Lilly's return was the perfect opportunity to do this (had the writers not done everything in their power not to address their relationship in the final season). Clementine's trust issues should all stem from one very important moment in her journey: Lilly, someone she cared about, advertedly shooting Carley, someone Clem also cared about (and later determinantly stealing the group's ride).
Addressing the year+ she spent with Christa would be welcome too. Christa never really seemed to let go off what happened in the bathroom stall, and Clem probably spent all that time under her care feeling guilty about it. Clem's has a lot to feel guilty for, and that's something that should've been brought to light.
Finally there would be AJ. He should represent the future generations, the future of the apocaliptic world. In the past Clem met characters which had differing ideas about how these future generations should be raised, namely Carver who supported a ruthless and strong new generation, Luke and Rebecca representing a human and moralistic new generation and Kenny which would have AJ be a strong and loyal man. Clem should explore all these takes and in the end come up with her own take on who AJ, and the future of humanity be extension, should be.
I'd have the last Season take place in Macon, no better place for Clem to revisit her demons. Lilly as a returning character still, probably still settled in the motor inn. Christa flashbacks. Definitely don't care about the Ericson's cast as there's nothing separating them from any other group Clem met before, so cut those off. Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This would be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit.
Going back to Macon would be interesting. Seeing how everything has changed since then. It'd be full Last of Us with plants and grass growing over everything.
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the… more "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also … [view original content]
As far as concepts go, this is freaking great. That's how you pay homage to the first season, but no, shouldn't the main cast be kids? Oh, um, conflict is, I know! Kids vs Adults!
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the… more "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also … [view original content]
I'm looking at Morgan, Wood lover, and Snit's posts in somewhat ascending order for highlighting some inherent issues with this game and much of the series with increasing clarity
It goes to once again show how screwed this series became halfway through Season 2. This final season, sorta like ANF, tried to have some stuff to help it stand out as a progression and shakeup of the story, but failed in part because it inevitably had to fall back into hitting on the same old same old without doing much of worth with it. Not that there was much to be had anymore, both in university and out.
Lilly is probably one of the biggest issues with this season. There is no reason for it to be Lilly other than "someone is back guys." They dont continue any type of character arch or development with her, and they barely attempt to use the past relationship to have more dynamic scenes with her (cuz the poor new comers might be lost ((( )
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the… more "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also … [view original content]
"Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This would be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit."
Interestingly, the pre-order dynamic theme for the PS4 shows season one's version of Clementine sitting in her treehouse, except the rest of the setting looks strangely dilapidated and decayed, as if it's been several years since Lee stumbled across it.
I wonder if there was an idea among Telltale's writing staff early on during the final season's production phase to have Clem revisit her old home, which they ultimately abandoned. Come to think of it, this could (emphasis on "could") be a promo for a possible DLC that'll come with the Definitive Edition where an adult version of Clem actually does just that? I know I might be expecting a little too much by this point, but hope springs eternal, right?
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the… more "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also … [view original content]
More back stories to the other characters and how they end up at the school.
2 different endings, but multiple endings will be nice.
Revisit old place like Richmond, and have a interactive scene, where Javier teaches Clem & AJ how to play baseball, and tell her what the letter D on her hat, the baseball team it represents.
A free roaming mode, letting the player explore more of the surroundings, instead of being restricted to a specific area
A free camera mode
Combat free mode, I want to take closer look at them Walkers without me having to kill them and vice versa.
A interactive tour of the entire school and all the places that's introduced in the game
A choice where Clem dares Louis to eat a cantaloupe
Some mini games or side missions from the other characters.
The story the way it's meant to be told, before the shutdown and budget cuts.
Clementine wearing the Brooklyn red hoodie during the flashback in TFS Ep3, because that's what she was wearing, when she was on the train with Lee, in S1.
Having Clem go back to the Macon area would have been a pretty cool idea. Not sure how they would pull it off, but have it so the main plot involves Clem traveling back in someway. There could be a twist of Clem being lost and then suddenly sees her old house and realizing where she is.
Sadly for Final Season to have a really big climax and revelation I feel like they would need to be able to do their own big thing, but they are a bit limited as only the comics seemed to be able to define what big game changer you can do. (which kinda sucks that Kirkman didnt just let them seeing as he obviously knew the comics were going to end soon. For example theyd need to do something like "rumors of people being saved by a military on the southerm shore" or something)
"Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This wou… moreld be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit."
Interestingly, the pre-order dynamic theme for the PS4 shows season one's version of Clementine sitting in her treehouse, except the rest of the setting looks strangely dilapidated and decayed, as if it's been several years since Lee stumbled across it.
I wonder if there was an idea among Telltale's writing staff early on during the final season's production phase to have Clem revisit her old home, which they ultimately abandoned. Come to think of it, this could (emphasis on "could") be a promo for a possible DLC that'll come with the Definitive Edition where an adult version of Clem actually does just that? I know I might be expecting a little too much by this point, but hope springs eternal, right?
I recall a data miner finding Clementine house files in TFS all the way back when the demo was released. Something like "Clementine House Damaged Road" which would indicate it was Clementine's house years into the apocalypse, not the rehash of some S1 texture. It could be they had this Definitve Edition planned from the start, but that feels doubtful.
Oh and I'd definitely buy such DLC should it ever be made.
"Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This wou… moreld be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit."
Interestingly, the pre-order dynamic theme for the PS4 shows season one's version of Clementine sitting in her treehouse, except the rest of the setting looks strangely dilapidated and decayed, as if it's been several years since Lee stumbled across it.
I wonder if there was an idea among Telltale's writing staff early on during the final season's production phase to have Clem revisit her old home, which they ultimately abandoned. Come to think of it, this could (emphasis on "could") be a promo for a possible DLC that'll come with the Definitive Edition where an adult version of Clem actually does just that? I know I might be expecting a little too much by this point, but hope springs eternal, right?
If Skybound were to produce such a DLC, it wouldn't be insanely expensive. All they'd need to put together is 21-year-old Clementine's appearance, the street where Clem's house is located, the actual interior of Clem's house, including the upstairs area (which we never got to see in season one), the backyard with the swimming pool/treehouse, and maybe the forest path behind the fence leading to the wrecked police car where Clem first spotted Lee. She could be stopping by her house alongside Violet or Louis, depending on who we romanced in TFS. Dialogue between them reveals AJ is holding the fort back at Ericson's Boarding School.
If they can afford it, revisiting other rundown places like the drugstore and the motel would also be a huge treat.
I recall a data miner finding Clementine house files in TFS all the way back when the demo was released. Something like "Clementine House Da… moremaged Road" which would indicate it was Clementine's house years into the apocalypse, not the rehash of some S1 texture. It could be they had this Definitve Edition planned from the start, but that feels doubtful.
Oh and I'd definitely buy such DLC should it ever be made.
I recall a data miner finding Clementine house files in TFS all the way back when the demo was released. Something like "Clementine House Da… moremaged Road" which would indicate it was Clementine's house years into the apocalypse, not the rehash of some S1 texture. It could be they had this Definitve Edition planned from the start, but that feels doubtful.
Oh and I'd definitely buy such DLC should it ever be made.
Comments
Whether or not the story was any good, I'm sure her reason was neither of those, even if it leans toward the former.
We’re all just bags of meat bound to one day shrivel up and decompose into dust. Does it really matter who does what?
Yes.
This is definitely true, although they appeared well equip for a group of survivors. They had weapons for all of their members. Guns and ammunition which is a scarce item to still possess this far into the end times as well as melee / tools for combat.
When we have an adequate view of the boat on the Delta, they seem damn near privileged lol. During the walker section when we approach, their snipers are very good. It has this odd mix of a cohesive strike team on the boat, and a bumbling red shirt capture team for the school raid.
I definitely feel like this is an area that could've been improved to benefit the story a lot more. Not that Able wasn't just amazing if they were going for a comedy version of Walking Dead. He was like that Monty Python Black Knight.
It's just a flesh wound
No. The only difference would have been the model. Lilly had a major personality change this season, therefore chances are extremely high that whoever the new person would have been, would have had the exact same dialogue, the exact same scenes and the exact same death as Lilly did.
Make the Delta more gray instead of being the Red Army.
More hubs, more getting to know the characters .
Mor eLilly screentime and reference to past events. It makes the seasons feel connected. The little things matter and as @Poogers555 said it gives a powerful payoff
In group conflict does make things more interesting and fleshes out of the characters instead of lal being "Da nice good guys"
Multiple endings
Don't let the antagonist die before the final episode. You're setting up yourself for failure.
Introduction of the other group. Underwhelming we know nothing about them.
Different AJs. At least two. This supposedly was meant to mean something but it ends up the same regardless.
More deteriminate characters. Make them feel valuable.
Hey, guys; it is your bro, Rob here. Have y’all missed me? xo
Lilith also had a major personality change WITHIN this season.
No.
That’s...what I said... ?
for starters id say having 5 episodes:
episode 1 could play out mostly the same except the Ruby and Marlon squabble never happens and we finish with everyone alive.
Episode 2 would continue to focus on the group maybe having more scenes with characters like Aasim and Mitch (maybe a subplot about fully dropping the safezone after Clem managed to bring back so many supplies with different characters having different opinions on it.) ,Some more scenes where Marlon starts looking even more shady and an increasing conflict between Clem and Brody which would eventually lead to her accidentally dropping a hint about the delta and panicking away from the conversation. it would escalate into the same finale of Done running.
episode 3 would be the same as suffer the children.
for episode 4 id say leave it somewhat the same as Broken toys except instead of Lily being fully ruthless make her still threatening but more hesitant like in suffer the children s ´´We were family once´´ scene, meanwhile the scenes where body parts were cut off would be handled by Dorian establishing for a short time a sort of rivalry between her and Lily where both are in charge but Dorian would be the more ruthless one and hand out the punishments Lily orders in the original episode.
Episode 5: Take us back just needs a full rewrite.
Thank you.
Here's a few ideas I've written about before:
The Search for More Money
Choices actually mattering.
A lot of choices in choice-based games don't overall impact the ending. But they can sometimes alter the journey. Plus, a lot of the choices in TWD are morally based. In S1 - you can either shoot the woman in the street or let her distract the walkers. Sure, she dies no matter what, but it's a test to see where the player's morality lies in the appocalypse. Same with Larry - yes he dies no matter what, but that choice affects the journey with Kenny and Lilly. I think the choices were intended for the player to look inside themselves and put them in Lee's shoes. Are you the kind of person who'd smash in a guys head? Or would you try to save him? I could go on and on about all the moral choices, but you for sure know what I'm gettin at.
I forgot I made that Spaceballs reference.
An extra episode to tighten up some incomplete or incoherent plotlines would have gone a long way, choices actually mattering in the finale instead of not at all, a satisfying ending for players regardless of what they chose, less of a focus on action and more of a focus on the somber tone the series is best known for, getting rid of like 40% of those little shits and just keeping the most interesting ones, writing Lilly like she wasn't a Kenny fanboy's wetdream and actually making her the complex character she was set up to be (but never followed up on) in season one, telling us where the fuck Christa went, erasing large portions of seasons 2 and 3 from history, giving AJ a character of his own outside of what Clem molds him into, etc, etc.
but other then that, perfect season.
Actually going to the Delta base.
God bless everyone.
Choices mattering more. A lot more. I know telltale was virtually bankrupt at the time, but they promised a lot that they didn’t deliver, and they knew that they were making promises they couldn’t keep...feels like we were kind of lied to, and I can’t tell if that’s just disappointing, annoying or in some crazy way justifiable.
Sadly it seems eps 3 and 4 came out just as they planned according to Kent Mundle. Obviously most might go "Well hes going to say that nothing was changed or cut because it looks bad to admit things being removed" but he's mentioned things like how the final episode went just as planned and the final draft was finished months before and discussed earlier drafts before that which followed the same story format with smaller tweaks to the point Im pretty positive this was the original vision in its fullest.
(Also he now straight up admitted the David spit thing was never planned to be anything important later in the game, so they cut the Wellington ending for nothing)
Which is really infuriating. Like you make it seem like each and every choice will matter, and they do, except that one. It's like they did intend for all of them to matter in some form, big or small, but with this one they just gave up and thought, 'eh, the players will forget'. At the very least just don't include it in the story-builder! There were also so many other choices that you could've included, but you put in that instead. And the fans were speculating all the time about what this would mean, but no, you can't count on these guys to do anything compelling with the last 2 episodes. No, the final bait and switch doesn't count.
I'm also annoyed by the Ranch flashback (just including this because I'm lazy and want to get it out of the way). It was built up for so long and there were references in every episode, lots of fan speculation, and then "it was raided!!". I thought they were going to do a plot-twist or something, something that relates to Clem's trauma and her face, I thought she might have killed innocents because she gave up on life and would do anything just to fulfill her goal of getting back AJ, becoming Kenny, but no. And the pointless line about Richmond being too dangerous, why was that there? Why did it take a year for her to get there? Wasn't it only a few miles north? Remember when everyone was like 'ooh I wonder what the explanation will be for why they didn't go back to Richmond'? Well nah, it's a war-zone. Everything is so one-note.
I wish the whole _"gotcha!" _ending with Clem almost dying should have been rejected altogether for something a little more original. Telltale went for a full circle-type theme for the final episode to troll the player's fears about Clem getting axed, and that's the kind of stunt storytelling that turned me off the comic book as much as the television show.
You know what would have been going against expectations while providing a better conclusion for Clem's story? Having AJ bitten instead. Someone on this board suggested a scenario where AJ becomes infected (he's bitten multiple times on the arms, legs, and torso, making amputation pointless), and Clem has to wrestle with the unpleasant decision of how to go about killing him. How AJ ultimately responds in this scenario would depend on our interactions with him throughout the season.
If you're a fan of AJ, I apologize in advance for bumming you out. But personally speaking, I haven't seen a lot of love on these boards for AJ. He never quite earned our respect and love in the way Clem did, IMO.
Ranch Flashback was a joke. Build up forever and its pretty meaningless once it happens. The AJ trauma thing was just dropped, Clem having such terrible nightmares made no sense as shes arguably seen way worse. The idea of Clem probably killed innocent people goes no where. I honestly would have preferred some sort of big twist and revelation than whatever the fuck they were going for.
Also I honestly feel like the Richmond mention was because they were half way through and forgot and needed a reason why after seeing so many people mention it. Some terrible excuse to not go back, and like you said, a few miles north = takes over a year to find Aj.
I agree, AJ and Clem's dynamic is really bad compared to Lee and Clem's.
I think a big problem with Final Season and its ending is I feel like it has no clue what theme it even wants. Clem has no character arch, or atleast a good one. Like its what? "Finding a home." Thats been a main plot for these games and stories for years now, it isnt an arch. Taking care of a kid isnt an arch either, its mean to serve an arch, not be the arch. I feel like a lot of people forget how Season 1 was a redemption story for Lee and how a main selling point was you play as an ex-convict given a second chance in the world and by the end of the game it goes full circle in a more meaningful way, this time hes in handcuffs but not because his crime.
Also later Telltale games seemed to forget the main character is a character. Later telltale games feel way more like the protagonist is just "the player" and goes through no archs and I feel like thats a large reason why later games felt so bland as our main character doesnt change much through the hardships. There just arnt any scenes that focus on our character. Season 1 for example has scenes with Lee and Clem that feel waaaay more natrual than Clem and AJ. Theres also plenty of scenes that focus on just Lee and his actions like the Stranger in Ep 5, where we can finally hear what Lee thinks about the whole killing wife's lover thing.
Final season just feels like a weird re-hash of season 1 instead of feeling like a continuation of all seasons for a huge season finale that was built up this whole time. Instead of doing something more unique that feels like there was proper build up to a powerful character arch, they just copied season 1's final season said sike and called it a day.
I'd have The Final Season actually be about Clementine's character, which in my opinion would require rebooting it to the core.
I think the "full circle" concept could've still been there, but definitely not as jarring and meaningless as it was in the actual season. The main theme would be Clem trying to figure out what Lee's sacrifice meant. What made Clem deserving of it and what she is supposed to do with the second change he gave her. I believe this could've been propelled by the ranch stuff still. Clem, who wasn't distinguishing between innocent and guilty in that situation, would get someone bit. Later she'd find a child dealing with their now bit guardian, soon to be dead, much like Clem all those years ago. If Clem managed to be the prepertrator of something terrible like that, did she really deserve Lee's sacrifice? This would be among the question she'd be struggling with through the season.
Delving into Clem's psych would also be important, as the most important thing in a person's mind is their trauma:
Finally there would be AJ. He should represent the future generations, the future of the apocaliptic world. In the past Clem met characters which had differing ideas about how these future generations should be raised, namely Carver who supported a ruthless and strong new generation, Luke and Rebecca representing a human and moralistic new generation and Kenny which would have AJ be a strong and loyal man. Clem should explore all these takes and in the end come up with her own take on who AJ, and the future of humanity be extension, should be.
I'd have the last Season take place in Macon, no better place for Clem to revisit her demons. Lilly as a returning character still, probably still settled in the motor inn. Christa flashbacks. Definitely don't care about the Ericson's cast as there's nothing separating them from any other group Clem met before, so cut those off. Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This would be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit.
Going back to Macon would be interesting. Seeing how everything has changed since then. It'd be full Last of Us with plants and grass growing over everything.
As far as concepts go, this is freaking great. That's how you pay homage to the first season, but no, shouldn't the main cast be kids? Oh, um, conflict is, I know! Kids vs Adults!
I'm looking at Morgan, Wood lover, and Snit's posts in somewhat ascending order for highlighting some inherent issues with this game and much of the series with increasing clarity
It goes to once again show how screwed this series became halfway through Season 2. This final season, sorta like ANF, tried to have some stuff to help it stand out as a progression and shakeup of the story, but failed in part because it inevitably had to fall back into hitting on the same old same old without doing much of worth with it. Not that there was much to be had anymore, both in university and out.
Lilly is probably one of the biggest issues with this season. There is no reason for it to be Lilly other than "someone is back guys." They dont continue any type of character arch or development with her, and they barely attempt to use the past relationship to have more dynamic scenes with her (cuz the poor new comers might be lost
((( )
"Not sure what I'd have the main conflict be, but Clem would want to go back to Savannah after the ranch stuff to apologize to Lee. This would be the driving force of the first episode. For the ending definitely have Clem settle in her old hous without any bite bullshit."
Interestingly, the pre-order dynamic theme for the PS4 shows season one's version of Clementine sitting in her treehouse, except the rest of the setting looks strangely dilapidated and decayed, as if it's been several years since Lee stumbled across it.
I wonder if there was an idea among Telltale's writing staff early on during the final season's production phase to have Clem revisit her old home, which they ultimately abandoned. Come to think of it, this could (emphasis on "could") be a promo for a possible DLC that'll come with the Definitive Edition where an adult version of Clem actually does just that? I know I might be expecting a little too much by this point, but hope springs eternal, right?
Having Clem go back to the Macon area would have been a pretty cool idea. Not sure how they would pull it off, but have it so the main plot involves Clem traveling back in someway. There could be a twist of Clem being lost and then suddenly sees her old house and realizing where she is.
Sadly for Final Season to have a really big climax and revelation I feel like they would need to be able to do their own big thing, but they are a bit limited as only the comics seemed to be able to define what big game changer you can do. (which kinda sucks that Kirkman didnt just let them seeing as he obviously knew the comics were going to end soon. For example theyd need to do something like "rumors of people being saved by a military on the southerm shore" or something)
I recall a data miner finding Clementine house files in TFS all the way back when the demo was released. Something like "Clementine House Damaged Road" which would indicate it was Clementine's house years into the apocalypse, not the rehash of some S1 texture. It could be they had this Definitve Edition planned from the start, but that feels doubtful.
Oh and I'd definitely buy such DLC should it ever be made.
If Skybound were to produce such a DLC, it wouldn't be insanely expensive. All they'd need to put together is 21-year-old Clementine's appearance, the street where Clem's house is located, the actual interior of Clem's house, including the upstairs area (which we never got to see in season one), the backyard with the swimming pool/treehouse, and maybe the forest path behind the fence leading to the wrecked police car where Clem first spotted Lee. She could be stopping by her house alongside Violet or Louis, depending on who we romanced in TFS. Dialogue between them reveals AJ is holding the fort back at Ericson's Boarding School.
If they can afford it, revisiting other rundown places like the drugstore and the motel would also be a huge treat.
Wasn't a flashback to her house intended for ANF beforehand?
I believe so. So was a trip to a slaughterhouse full of walkers
Yes, I remember the promotional photographs.
Well it's possible that this overgrown version was done using what they had modeled then as an existing basis.