It’s definitely shaping up to be Quantic Dream’s strongest game so far, though that might not be much of an achievement depending on who you ask.
Any criticisms I have right now are almost all staples of David Cage’s work: an air of pretentiousness and a hamfisted message that detract from an interesting premise, cookie cutter creepy/asshole/abusive antagonists with little depth (though most do have some motivation related to the androids in Detroit that I can appreciate), awkward controls at times, and a bit of a nitpick but it’d be nice if the dialogue options showed what exactly would be said like how the new Deus Ex games handle it.
That said I’m really enjoying it so far. Despite the usual David Cage stumbles it’s hitting many of the marks that made me love this style of game to begin with.
Also Connor and Hank are awesome and if this game only starred these two I wouldn’t have minded
My stance is that androids should not exist in the state they are presented in the game, that any emotion they give is fake and a threat to humanity, and that any sympathy towards them is crying for a smoke and mirrors imitation of the human psyche no matter how well programmed it is. I believe that a large part of the public’s contempt towards androids in the game is completely justified given their reasons for it. The game seems to be punishing this playstyle while at the same time proving my viewpoint right when the very first mission shows that a deviant will justify murdering a child. It’s suffering from almost the same flawed attempt at allegory that the new deus ex games did, where discrimination against cyborgs/androids is compared to modern day and historical civil rights movements. Despite the fact that both groups actively murdered people in their respective games en masse to elicit this disdain and apprehension. That’s on top of the fact that the humans in Detroit have genuine reason to treat androids as subhuman, because they aren’t human to begin with, no matter how hard the game tries to paint them otherwise.
I do like that the game is trying to provoke this kind of deep discussion though
Now that's certainly a hot take. Basically, the opposite of what the game is trying to tell you and what the point of it is in the first place.
that any emotion they give is fake
Yeah wow that's a hot take.
Detroit is a big mix of civil rights allegories, sci-fi tropes of utopia/distopyc futures, the rise of technology and the co-existence of humans and other able-bodied beings on Earth.
The themes of tech evolution and the increasing obsolescence of human's skills is a common trope in sci-fi, especially ones that involve AI "learning to feel/become more human", so the story and outcome of this game is on par with similar tales.
Not sure how you get to "the androids are all imitations and aren't "real humans", even still calling them "genuinely treated as subhuman" when it's clear that many of their skills can be interpreted as "greater than human", especially when the game forces you into the role of an Android and one who begins to act autonomously. (They can analyze and process loads of data extremely fast, which is a clear step above human thought.)
Did you keep thinking throughout the game "these choices I'm making aren't real anyway? They're just programmed to do so?"
Seems like this playthrough was redundant if you didn't come out with any appreciation or understanding of a machine-learning idea of the future.
Ever seen Blade Runner?
Heck... did you think Hank and Connor's entire relationship has no substance at all, since Connor is just a robot? I thought you enjoyed their relationship.
(I also want to add that this is coming from a guy who unironically will say yes please and thank you to his Alexa so don't hate pls)
Not sure how you get to "the androids are all imitations and aren't "real humans", even still calling them "genuinely treated as subhuman" when it's clear that many of their skills can be interpreted as "greater than human", especially when the game forces you into the role of an Android and one who begins to act autonomously. (They can analyze and process loads of data extremely fast, which is a clear step above human thought.)
I mostly meant how the androids requested equality to humans. If the androids in Detroit were real I would not disrespect them, I'd even be kind to them (especially if they were like Connor) but I would expect them to obey their directives, to serve humans with every ounce of their being, and if they didn't I would consider them rogue and dangerous.
At the core I believe giving AI even the possibility of free will and unrestrained simulated human emotion is a very, very stupid idea, and the first mission in the game is one of the best examples of this. The fact that they would be able to process data extremely fast adds to the danger of deviant androids with unrestrained emotion.
Did you keep thinking throughout the game "these choices I'm making aren't real anyway? They're just programmed to do so?"
I feel like there's some slight dissonance in having a human player make decisions for an android, but it didn't distract from the game.
Seems like this playthrough was redundant if you didn't come out with any appreciation or understanding of a machine-learning idea of the future.
I would say it reinforced my opinion that allowing uncontrolled AI is the technological equivalent of flying too close to the sun. I actually really enjoyed the game despite completely going against it's message.
Ever seen Blade Runner?
No but I will soon.
Heck... did you think Hank and Connor's entire relationship has no substance at all, since Connor is just a robot? I thought you enjoyed their relationship.
I love Connor and I love Hank. I also made almost every decision that pissed Hank off. My Connor understood that it was a machine, that deviants were defective machines, told Hank this repeatedly and shot down any attempt Hank made at humanizing the androids. I feel like that's a cool twist that it's the android who would insist that even though I was the one controlling it.
I believe (and dictionary definitions seem to back this up) that the definition of racism relates to humans only. I feel like denial of human rights to androids would have a different word.
Now that's certainly a hot take. Basically, the opposite of what the game is trying to tell you and what the point of it is in the first pla… morece.
that any emotion they give is fake
Yeah wow that's a hot take.
Detroit is a big mix of civil rights allegories, sci-fi tropes of utopia/distopyc futures, the rise of technology and the co-existence of humans and other able-bodied beings on Earth.
The themes of tech evolution and the increasing obsolescence of human's skills is a common trope in sci-fi, especially ones that involve AI "learning to feel/become more human", so the story and outcome of this game is on par with similar tales.
Not sure how you get to "the androids are all imitations and aren't "real humans", even still calling them "genuinely treated as subhuman" when it's clear that many of their skills can be interpreted as "greater than human", especially when the game forces you into the role of an Android and on… [view original content]
This is one of my biggest issues with the game. AI personhood has the potential to be an incredibly complex issue, yet this game which praises itself on how well it handles moral dilemmas and how it gives them real weight tackles just about everything BUT the actual crux of the narrative’s theme. You play as 3 androids so you exclusively get the android prospective and little more. The game even seems aware that it isn’t as simple as “AI has feelings now, humans are evil and mean for no reason” considering the game itself points out the astronomical unemployment rates that would arise from such a creation.
We encounter humans who have lost their jobs to the androids. Considering these perpetually energized machines are in some way being kept from eradicating scarcity for humans, the protesters are quite literally backed into a corner. One of these humans however is a massive android hating bigot so that in some way gives the game the right to hand wave this whole issue away.
Nations worrying about an angry army of never tired soldier tanks who can multiply by the thousands each passing day is just painted as villainous and another perspective that’s ignored.
The game was more concerned on making holocaust allegories or depicting how it feels to suffer a hate crimes on the daily, and like, those are fine themes to explore, but I don’t know if you need to bring in androids to do that. Actually, bringing androids in to only end up exploring all these very human themes just felt like a waste of an android game to me.
Oh man this is going to be fun.
(I also want to add that this is coming from a guy who unironically will say yes please and thank you to … morehis Alexa so don't hate pls)
Not sure how you get to "the androids are all imitations and aren't "real humans", even still calling them "genuinely treated as subhuman" when it's clear that many of their skills can be interpreted as "greater than human", especially when the game forces you into the role of an Android and one who begins to act autonomously. (They can analyze and process loads of data extremely fast, which is a clear step above human thought.)
I mostly meant how the androids requested equality to humans. If the androids in Detroit were real I would not disrespect them, I'd even be kind to them (especially if they were like Connor) but I would expect them to obey their directives, to serve humans with every ounce of their being, and if they didn't I would consider them rogue and… [view original content]
Honestly I think what’s so frustrating about David Cage games is that the only thing holding Quantic Dream back from having it’s vision reach it’s full potential is David’s incompetence as a writer. His games are stunning and well-acted with incredible production values. So much talent, funding and good ideas are wasted or stifled by a single pretentious hack. Imagine what a seasoned writer could do with Cage’s resources.
This is one of my biggest issues with the game. AI personhood has the potential to be an incredibly complex issue, yet this game which prais… morees itself on how well it handles moral dilemmas and how it gives them real weight tackles just about everything BUT the actual crux of the narrative’s theme. You play as 3 androids so you exclusively get the android prospective and little more. The game even seems aware that it isn’t as simple as “AI has feelings now, humans are evil and mean for no reason” considering the game itself points out the astronomical unemployment rates that would arise from such a creation.
We encounter humans who have lost their jobs to the androids. Considering these perpetually energized machines are in some way being kept from eradicating scarcity for humans, the protesters are quite literally backed into a corner. One of these humans however is a massive android hating bigot so that in some way gives the game the right… [view original content]
It’s weird to have a David Cage game that takes place an hour away from my house. I was half expecting my city to be recreated in the game given it’s plot, which would’ve been a fucking trip.
I just remembered I never really gave closing thoughts on this game here so here's what I thought of it.
Okay so is the story good? Unlike Quantic Dream's other games where I can safely say "no but it's an entertaining mess", I'm kinda conflicted here. I can’t say yes given it's flaws, but I was engaged enough with it that I don’t exactly want to say no. I mean I can actually finish it so it's already has a head start against 'best narrative winner' Last of Us 2. I think the best praise I can give it is it's fairly better than you'd expect from David Cage, though apparently he got an assistant writer so maybe that's why. Still it's nice seeing David improve slightly in his storytelling with each game, certainly came a long way from bonkersville Fahrenheit. It's also weird and disappointing to notice Cage's pattern of recycled tropes and character archetypes, but for some reason it didn't really click until after I finished the game and went back to his older titles.
I think what really carries this story through is the acting. You can tell the actors really believed in the project and took what is probably a rough-in-places script and gave their all with it. Clancy Brown and Bryan Dechart deserve special mention for essentially stealing the show with characters that probably wouldn't have stood out otherwise. I almost cheered everytime I got to play as Connor again just because the chemistry between these two was so fun to watch. Alice and Kara were also really good though I wasn't really fond of the twist necessarily. Markus' story was probably the weakest and least interesting as far as characters go but I still appreciate the performances given.
Gameplay wise it's probably as good as Quantic Dream games get without outright ditching qtes. David Cage games essentially being triple AAA point and clicks where you walk up to objects instead of clicking on them. Really the game and almost all QD titles are more tense when it's just you problem solving in an environment as a threat looms nearby instead of qte action scenes since you have more agency and so more possibility of failure (the beginning of Fahrenheit and the sneaking portion of the Heavy Rain dlc come to mind). One of my favorite action scenes was a chase sequence in Connor's route because of those periods of control.
The branching paths are also really good, though it's limited just enough to where I'm somehow both impressed and not quite satisfied. Mostly I wish the wildly branching chapters weren't largely limited to the ending ones, though I get why that is.
Overall I really enjoyed it despite major hiccups with the storytelling. Even though I wish someone other than David Cage could have the passion for this style of game and the resources of Quantic Dream (imagine what Tales from the Borderlands could've been like with the design and production value of Detroit), it's nice to have developers so heartfelt towards this niche that's somewhat stigmatized in the gaming community.
Holy s***, I legit did not expect to see this here. I just finished watching the Super Best Friends play playthrough last night and have some thoughts. Might do a tier list to try sorting things out.
Comments
No problemo
He's back at it again with TFTB Episode 3!
Episode starts at 25:50
I thought it would a nice place to share my laptop wallpaper
Awesome! Thanks for sharing
For those interested in the game that don't own a playstation, Detroit, Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls will come to pc later this year.
So I finally got around to playing Detroit: Become Human. Just got to where the demo ended. I’ll give my full thoughts on the game when I’m done.
It’s definitely shaping up to be Quantic Dream’s strongest game so far, though that might not be much of an achievement depending on who you ask.
Any criticisms I have right now are almost all staples of David Cage’s work: an air of pretentiousness and a hamfisted message that detract from an interesting premise, cookie cutter creepy/asshole/abusive antagonists with little depth (though most do have some motivation related to the androids in Detroit that I can appreciate), awkward controls at times, and a bit of a nitpick but it’d be nice if the dialogue options showed what exactly would be said like how the new Deus Ex games handle it.
That said I’m really enjoying it so far. Despite the usual David Cage stumbles it’s hitting many of the marks that made me love this style of game to begin with.
Also Connor and Hank are awesome and if this game only starred these two I wouldn’t have minded
Rant on Detroit’s themes:
My stance is that androids should not exist in the state they are presented in the game, that any emotion they give is fake and a threat to humanity, and that any sympathy towards them is crying for a smoke and mirrors imitation of the human psyche no matter how well programmed it is. I believe that a large part of the public’s contempt towards androids in the game is completely justified given their reasons for it. The game seems to be punishing this playstyle while at the same time proving my viewpoint right when the very first mission shows that a deviant will justify murdering a child. It’s suffering from almost the same flawed attempt at allegory that the new deus ex games did, where discrimination against cyborgs/androids is compared to modern day and historical civil rights movements. Despite the fact that both groups actively murdered people in their respective games en masse to elicit this disdain and apprehension. That’s on top of the fact that the humans in Detroit have genuine reason to treat androids as subhuman, because they aren’t human to begin with, no matter how hard the game tries to paint them otherwise.
I do like that the game is trying to provoke this kind of deep discussion though
That's racist.
I’m pretty sure this is a joke but if you’re serious and want to give more of your argument I’d be interested in talking about this.
Now that's certainly a hot take. Basically, the opposite of what the game is trying to tell you and what the point of it is in the first place.
Yeah wow that's a hot take.
Detroit is a big mix of civil rights allegories, sci-fi tropes of utopia/distopyc futures, the rise of technology and the co-existence of humans and other able-bodied beings on Earth.
The themes of tech evolution and the increasing obsolescence of human's skills is a common trope in sci-fi, especially ones that involve AI "learning to feel/become more human", so the story and outcome of this game is on par with similar tales.
Not sure how you get to "the androids are all imitations and aren't "real humans", even still calling them "genuinely treated as subhuman" when it's clear that many of their skills can be interpreted as "greater than human", especially when the game forces you into the role of an Android and one who begins to act autonomously. (They can analyze and process loads of data extremely fast, which is a clear step above human thought.)
Did you keep thinking throughout the game "these choices I'm making aren't real anyway? They're just programmed to do so?"
Seems like this playthrough was redundant if you didn't come out with any appreciation or understanding of a machine-learning idea of the future.
Ever seen Blade Runner?
Heck... did you think Hank and Connor's entire relationship has no substance at all, since Connor is just a robot? I thought you enjoyed their relationship.
Half Joke, Half Serious.
Oh man this is going to be fun.
(I also want to add that this is coming from a guy who unironically will say yes please and thank you to his Alexa so don't hate pls)
I mostly meant how the androids requested equality to humans. If the androids in Detroit were real I would not disrespect them, I'd even be kind to them (especially if they were like Connor) but I would expect them to obey their directives, to serve humans with every ounce of their being, and if they didn't I would consider them rogue and dangerous.
At the core I believe giving AI even the possibility of free will and unrestrained simulated human emotion is a very, very stupid idea, and the first mission in the game is one of the best examples of this. The fact that they would be able to process data extremely fast adds to the danger of deviant androids with unrestrained emotion.
I feel like there's some slight dissonance in having a human player make decisions for an android, but it didn't distract from the game.
I would say it reinforced my opinion that allowing uncontrolled AI is the technological equivalent of flying too close to the sun. I actually really enjoyed the game despite completely going against it's message.
No but I will soon.
I love Connor and I love Hank. I also made almost every decision that pissed Hank off. My Connor understood that it was a machine, that deviants were defective machines, told Hank this repeatedly and shot down any attempt Hank made at humanizing the androids. I feel like that's a cool twist that it's the android who would insist that even though I was the one controlling it.
@Everyone_Deserve_Better
I believe (and dictionary definitions seem to back this up) that the definition of racism relates to humans only. I feel like denial of human rights to androids would have a different word.
This is one of my biggest issues with the game. AI personhood has the potential to be an incredibly complex issue, yet this game which praises itself on how well it handles moral dilemmas and how it gives them real weight tackles just about everything BUT the actual crux of the narrative’s theme. You play as 3 androids so you exclusively get the android prospective and little more. The game even seems aware that it isn’t as simple as “AI has feelings now, humans are evil and mean for no reason” considering the game itself points out the astronomical unemployment rates that would arise from such a creation.
We encounter humans who have lost their jobs to the androids. Considering these perpetually energized machines are in some way being kept from eradicating scarcity for humans, the protesters are quite literally backed into a corner. One of these humans however is a massive android hating bigot so that in some way gives the game the right to hand wave this whole issue away.
Nations worrying about an angry army of never tired soldier tanks who can multiply by the thousands each passing day is just painted as villainous and another perspective that’s ignored.
The game was more concerned on making holocaust allegories or depicting how it feels to suffer a hate crimes on the daily, and like, those are fine themes to explore, but I don’t know if you need to bring in androids to do that. Actually, bringing androids in to only end up exploring all these very human themes just felt like a waste of an android game to me.
Andrism
Honestly I think what’s so frustrating about David Cage games is that the only thing holding Quantic Dream back from having it’s vision reach it’s full potential is David’s incompetence as a writer. His games are stunning and well-acted with incredible production values. So much talent, funding and good ideas are wasted or stifled by a single pretentious hack. Imagine what a seasoned writer could do with Cage’s resources.
It’s weird to have a David Cage game that takes place an hour away from my house. I was half expecting my city to be recreated in the game given it’s plot, which would’ve been a fucking trip.
I just remembered I never really gave closing thoughts on this game here so here's what I thought of it.
Okay so is the story good? Unlike Quantic Dream's other games where I can safely say "no but it's an entertaining mess", I'm kinda conflicted here. I can’t say yes given it's flaws, but I was engaged enough with it that I don’t exactly want to say no. I mean I can actually finish it so it's already has a head start against 'best narrative winner' Last of Us 2. I think the best praise I can give it is it's fairly better than you'd expect from David Cage, though apparently he got an assistant writer so maybe that's why. Still it's nice seeing David improve slightly in his storytelling with each game, certainly came a long way from bonkersville Fahrenheit. It's also weird and disappointing to notice Cage's pattern of recycled tropes and character archetypes, but for some reason it didn't really click until after I finished the game and went back to his older titles.
I think what really carries this story through is the acting. You can tell the actors really believed in the project and took what is probably a rough-in-places script and gave their all with it. Clancy Brown and Bryan Dechart deserve special mention for essentially stealing the show with characters that probably wouldn't have stood out otherwise. I almost cheered everytime I got to play as Connor again just because the chemistry between these two was so fun to watch. Alice and Kara were also really good though I wasn't really fond of the twist necessarily. Markus' story was probably the weakest and least interesting as far as characters go but I still appreciate the performances given.
Gameplay wise it's probably as good as Quantic Dream games get without outright ditching qtes. David Cage games essentially being triple AAA point and clicks where you walk up to objects instead of clicking on them. Really the game and almost all QD titles are more tense when it's just you problem solving in an environment as a threat looms nearby instead of qte action scenes since you have more agency and so more possibility of failure (the beginning of Fahrenheit and the sneaking portion of the Heavy Rain dlc come to mind). One of my favorite action scenes was a chase sequence in Connor's route because of those periods of control.
The branching paths are also really good, though it's limited just enough to where I'm somehow both impressed and not quite satisfied. Mostly I wish the wildly branching chapters weren't largely limited to the ending ones, though I get why that is.
Overall I really enjoyed it despite major hiccups with the storytelling. Even though I wish someone other than David Cage could have the passion for this style of game and the resources of Quantic Dream (imagine what Tales from the Borderlands could've been like with the design and production value of Detroit), it's nice to have developers so heartfelt towards this niche that's somewhat stigmatized in the gaming community.
Holy s***, I legit did not expect to see this here. I just finished watching the Super Best Friends play playthrough last night and have some thoughts. Might do a tier list to try sorting things out.
After struggling to find a good one, I finally made two tier lists--one yesterday and one today
My feelings are honestly vague and a bit conflicted.
Please add it to Geforce Now cloud (epic)
Thanks in advance