And the reason you never heard that sad excuse of an apology (which requires more than just using the word "sorry" in sentence form) is because when you played you didn't volunteer to bend over and take from Larry.
Larry will also apologize if Lee doesn't try to escalate the disagreement and keeps his mouth shut...
No bending over and taking it required.
Yami, you are spot on (imo) in your views on almost every thing/subject we've come across but ya....Larry was a nasty, mean-spirited, 'FU, me first' Grade A Certified Prime Ahole.
It's like my mom once said "Xarne, if you cant say something nice...just stfu"
There are plenty of times...in fact, I cant pick one time when Larry didnt leap at the opportunity to make some dig or remark about why he isnt being taken care of; why he gets worked while others 'hang around'....ya, he's like the Bill O'Reilly of TWD. Dont miss his ass one bit
Now I now you're Team Lily which by default makes you Team Larry so maybe you missed his assassination attempt at the end of Ep 1 but it said loads about his character
Thank you, Xarne. Well about Larry the thing is to me he is a typical old guy. I've seen many people like him, old, grumpy, always whining and everything.
I remember he tried to stop me from going with the group in ep. 1. However, I trust Lilly (who I think this video showed isn't all power-hungry girl) and I think she's right when she says he has his issues but isn't that bad.
He will come and try to help you if you give him the axe, instead of mark.
That's something. He will, of course, whine about it but will help. Given the fact that he hates you and knows you're a murderer, he surpasses Kenny in ep. 2.
Cyreen, I really think you're in the wrong here. Kenny asks you to bend over and take it from him if you're to be his buddy. Even when he's wrong, he demands that you agree with him.
Even if you're silent, he will be offended. That's how possessive he is!
Larry doesn't want anything from you and so does Lilly. She only needs you to show some compassion and humanity in the meat locker and she'll forgive you even if you treated her like shit.
It's her dad you're helping after all. Kenny will however forget everything you've done for him and his family the instant you didn't side with him.
I don't do all Lilly choices just so I can be on her side. I do them because there is logic in them and sound better than Kenny's emotional "My family must be taken care of" decisions.
There was no way Duck was bitten so I don't even know how you could even make the decision to back up Larry. Thanks for the video.
No problem, mate
How was there no way Duck could've been bitten? The walker was on top of him, plus a simple scratch would be enough as well.
It's funny you say that there was no way he could've been bitten when in fact in ep. 3 the exact same scene develops with a walker on top of him. That time however, Duck was bitten.
I think that by making the second scene almost as exact as the first one, the developers are actually trying to tell us that Duck could've been bitten the first time as well.
No problem, mate
How was there no way Duck could've been bitten? The walker was on top of him, plus a simple scratch would be enough as well.
It's funny you say that there was no way he could've been bitten when in fact in ep. 3 the exact same scene develops with a walker on top of him. That time however, Duck was bitten.
I think that by making the second scene almost as exact as the first one, the developers are actually trying to tell us that Duck could've been bitten the first time as well.
Yeah, in ep 3 it was bit different because the camera cuts away. In the first incident it was focused until the walker was dealt with and I didn't see him get bitten. Although now I look at it again I can see how he could've taken a bite so I admit I was wrong on that lol.
I can not agree at all. Kenny never really thinks about anyone else than himself.
He dumps Lee the second he disagrees even once and doesn't help him out of trouble anymore. That is because Kenny is a selfish coward, but his general ego trip also shows very clearly in episode 3, when Kenny needs to stop the train. In his eyes, Duck failed him and he doesn't want to take on that confrontation.
Kenny is all Kenny... and that's what he got now!
I also have to disagree here. Lily didn't plan anything, she snapped. That made her a murderer and a persona non grata to that group.
It is a mirror to Lee, he snapped once and killed a man in cold blood. He was also going to be punished by "his" group, called the United States of Ameria, at that time.
Sleep well.
Ok here is the start of a long line of quotes and rebuttals.
Firstly Kenny takes a bullet for his son. Literally charges a man with a gun to try and save him. And you say he doesn't care about anyone? Seems legit. Did you not see he tears when his family died? And it wasn't his "general ego" that made him not want to stop the train, it's the feeling that if he stops, he is giving up on Duck. He couldn't come to terms with his sons inevitable death.
Also Lee snapped when he saw a guy sleeping with his wife.
Lilly snapped when Carely called her a bitch and stuck up for Ben.
If it was reversed and Kenny was the one down and Larry wanted me to smash his head, I wouldn't do it again.
People constantly complain that Lee was putting people in risk. No he was not. The only people that risked their lives were Lilly and Lee. And they can make choices for themselves.
How many times have we seen Lee kill walkers singlehandedly? A lot. Some of them (Lilly and Lee) could've got bitten if Larry turned but still they would've kill him. Not that hard. Lee held that zombie teacher for more than a minute and almost destroyed it's head on the sides of the truck. They could've taken care of walker Larry. It was their lives at stake, and their choice!
Don't make it as if Kenny did them some huge favour. He stripped Larry of any chance for live. He did it not to protect Clementine, Lilly or Lee because we know he doesn't give a shit about them (especially since you are doing CPR). He did it so he can go faster to his stupid family. He killed a member of the group in cold blood (the first one to do it) so that he can save his family (which I had to save btw).
Kenny is the most selfish and egocentric person in this game. He destroyed both Lilly and Larry's lives in that meat locker.
Cyreen, I've never seen that "control" Lilly supposedly love so much. All I've seen is a person who's making tough decisions for the group. She doesn't enjoy being in control, there is just nobody else.
As for Carley, I cannot agree that Lilly killed her because Carley always talked back. Because that never happened you know. Carley always stayed away from major debates and conflict, she didn't spoke to Lilly at all. She was always trying to avoid giving her opinion. Saying that Carley was some sort of leader danger to Lilly is ridiculous. She did open her mouth once, after she was already a suspect and that was the worst timing possible.
To me personally Kenny is the worst in this group and the most unforgivable one. Lilly and Lee have both done mistakes but in my eyes they are always trying to do the best for everybody.
Kenny killed him in cold blood? Nope sorry. Kenny did it to save himself and his family sure but it was still the right call. You talk about how Lilly makes hard decisions, but then support risking the entire group for one guy who might be dead. And I BET that if Kenny was the one bitten, Larry would smash his head in quickly. He was going to kill someome whos less risk in the pharmacy. Lilly would have killed Kenny as well, because she was willing to watch on in the pharmacy. If she let a child die, it's because he thought her dad was right or she's too weak to stand up and not let some kid die love Carely.
And on Carely, she and Lilly did fight in ep 1 and Lilly having a grudge is one of the few reasons I can find for Lilly killing her. Except of course because Carely called her a bitch and sees a phyco. And can you come up with a good reason for Carelu being a suspect. Hope you can. Carley called Lilly a bitch by the way, because she was threatening Ben and Carely won't stand by and watch him be killed on no evidence. Do you know what's funny? Larry wants to kill a kid in ep 1 on little evidence because he might be a danger. Lilly wants to kill Ben because in ep 3 on even less evidence and he isn't even a immediate danger. And you are fine with both of those things. But Kenny wants to kill Larry who has had a heart attack and has a high chance of reaminating and killing everyone and suddenly it's horrible? I've also been through why Duck in the pharmacy is a lower threat than Larry in the locker btw.
Think that's everything for now, off to the next post!
Did Kenny check Larry's life signs?offer to take his pulse? wait more than 5-10 seconds before he acted? Lilly was clearly distressed and answered Lee's question about Larry's breathing with an uncertain "No,I don't think so" Why didn't Lee or Kenny offer to check themselves, to make certain that he had no pulse?
Kenny was too impulsive and damningly, for me, showed very little if not any compassion following his action.To me it came across as:
Okay,now that nuisance is taken care of, everyone get back to focusing on MY family. Hell, he would of left Lilly to be killed by the bandits or walkers when escaping the motel.Another sign of his vindictive nature.
Do you remember how quickly the legless guy turned. Kat calls you over, you talk for a tiny bit and then the guy came back. With Larry it could have been seconds before he gets up and bites people. Maybe that's why they took Lilly's word and weren't so eager to start checking? And did you see his face after he killed him. There was no satisfaction, he was horrified at what he had to do. And leaving Lilly behind at the motel was the smart thing to do. Bandits and walkers were storming the place and everyone was packed into one small vulnerable RV. Can't blame him for not wanting to sit around waiting.
It wasn't a apology, it was a acknowledgement of the fact that he was wrong in the appearance of a apology.
...in order to back out of the situation, it was nothing but an exit line. As for his "apology" when reasoning with him, I believe it was something along the lines of, "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to protect my daughter", before continuing to advocate killing a kid.
Larry is an argument not worth having. He was an ugly, abusive man, with ugly, warped motivations and he certainly didn't do Lilly any favors. I may have tried to save him, but I do believe what Kenny did, although premature, was right.
Thank you, Xarne. Well about Larry the thing is to me he is a typical old guy. I've seen many people like him, old, grumpy, always whining and everything.
I remember he tried to stop me from going with the group in ep. 1. However, I trust Lilly (who I think this video showed isn't all power-hungry girl) and I think she's right when she says he has his issues but isn't that bad.
He will come and try to help you if you give him the axe, instead of mark.
That's something. He will, of course, whine about it but will help. Given the fact that he hates you and knows you're a murderer, he surpasses Kenny in ep. 2.
Cyreen, I really think you're in the wrong here. Kenny asks you to bend over and take it from him if you're to be his buddy. Even when he's wrong, he demands that you agree with him.
Even if you're silent, he will be offended. That's how possessive he is!
Larry doesn't want anything from you and so does Lilly. She only needs you to show some compassion and humanity in the meat locker and she'll forgive you even if you treated her like shit.
It's her dad you're helping after all. Kenny will however forget everything you've done for him and his family the instant you didn't side with him.
I don't do all Lilly choices just so I can be on her side. I do them because there is logic in them and sound better than Kenny's emotional "My family must be taken care of" decisions.
Typical old people don't make themselves judge, jury and executioner (kind of like Lilly, apple doesn't fall far from tree does it?) He was ready to kill a child because he might have been bitten, same as how Larry might have died, except Larry was more of a threat of course
Larry punched me and left me for dead because I killed a guy and he obviously didn't even know the details of the crime. If Lee was a serial killer, sure I can forgive him, but Lee killed one person for understandable reasons. A lot more understandable than Lilly's anyway :P
Also Kenny saves my and your Lee even if you were about to kill Duck. You're "He hates you if you dont always side with him" argument is dead. Also I think Kenny always expects you to side with him because he has so far been always right!
Also Kenny saves my and your Lee even if you were about to kill Duck. You're "He hates you if you dont always side with him" argument is dead. Also I think Kenny always expects you to side with him because he has so far been always right!
Kenny saves you in Ep1; just like Lily leaves in Ep3. Its part of the story/game design. He'll call you an asshole if you didnt side with him. Just like Lily will leave either by shoving you out of the RV or with some other less hostile action if she likes you.
Kenny saves you in Ep1; just like Lily leaves in Ep3. Its part of the story/game design. He'll call you an asshole if you didnt side with him. Just like Lily will leave either by shoving you out of the RV or with some other less hostile action if she likes you.
Kenny being always right? That's debateable.
Just saying "Its part of the story/game design" isn't a great argument. What's to stop me saying Kenny killing Larry isn't important it's just part of the game design? We can't say somethings a character do reflect on them, and something's don't because "game design"
Just saying "Its part of the story/game design" isn't a great argument. What's to stop me saying Kenny killing Larry isn't important it's just part of the game design? We can't say somethings a character do reflect on them, and something's don't because "game design"
And I'm happy to debate it. :P
Someone said 'Kenny hates you if you dont side with his family', and this is true. You said this is false because he saves you even though you side against Duck.
I'm telling you no matter what you do in that drugstore, the story is going to save you and that savior is always going to be Kenny: by design of the game. It's a scripted event.
And yes, Kenny is going to kill Larry. Just like in the drugstore, nothing you say or do will alter that event. The similarity with both scenarios is the same: your input is noted and then stored in the memories of the survivors.
It's not so much my argument, its just how it is
In his mind, he's probably thinking that if he stops the train he gives up on his only son. Plus, if you bothered to talk him down, you would see he isn't as terrible a person as you may think. Remember Hershel's farm, when Shawn died? Kenny blames that on himself. In the drug store, he admits to playing a good part in Shawn's death. On the train, three months later, he admits he is STILL blaming himself for Shawn dying. That's in episode 3. He saw Duck getting bitten during the raid as punishment for letting Shawn die. He blames himself for Shawn AND Duck, and maybe even for Kat. Yeah he jumps the gun on occasion, but he's not a true monster. A monster would never blame himself for looking out for his son over some stranger.
Someone said 'Kenny hates you if you dont side with his family', and this is true. You said this is false because he saves you even though you side against Duck.
I'm telling you no matter what you do in that drugstore, the story is going to save you and that savior is always going to be Kenny: by design of the game. It's a scripted event.
And yes, Kenny is going to kill Larry. Just like in the drugstore, nothing you say or do will alter that event. The similarity with both scenarios is the same: your input is noted and then stored in the memories of the survivors.
It's not so much my argument, its just how it is
My point is saying that Kenny's saving you in the drugstore doesn't matter because it is scripted is the same as saying him killing Larry isn't important because it is scripted.
My point is saying that Kenny's saving you in the drugstore doesn't matter because it is scripted is the same as saying him killing Larry isn't important because it is scripted.
Thats funny, so am I. Because both must/will happen in order for the rest of the storyline to progress, regardless of player interaction.
The story isnt dynamic enough to branch off into a what if Kenny doesnt come for me at the drug store or what if I stopped Kenny from killing Larry. These are static, set points in the story. The only thing you can alter about them is people's perception about you before and after the events
Yeah, he saves you in ep.1 and leaves you to die how many times later?
You seriously amaze me. What are all those theories about Larry's apology? He apologized, deal with it.
You're just looking for more reasons to hate the guy.
And yeah, he's like many, many typical old guys. People who're ready to do the wrong thing in order to protect their girl. Basically he's like Kenny with the difference that he will still try to save you (with the axe in ep. 2) despite hating you, while once you really go on Kenny's bad side, there is no turning back.
Just because he's grumpy and whining doesn't necessarily making him a bad guy.
He was quite nice to Brenda in ep. 2, so he does have a softer side.
1) Like Lilly, if you treat Kenny badly, you reap what you sow.
2) If someone apologized to me in that tone, I'd tell 'em to stick it.
3) Reasons to dislike Larry? Pick any time he opened his mouth.
4) I know some typical old guys who would be quite offended by that comparison.
5) Softer side, my ass. The arrogant old bastard thought he was manipulating Brenda with his "charm".
It's bad enough you insist on seeing Lilly as some poor misunderstood victim (an image she wouldn't appreciate), but to tote Larry's banner as a "good guy"?
1) Like Lilly, if you treat Kenny badly, you reap what you sow.
2) If someone apologized to me in that tone, I'd tell 'em to stick it.
3) Reasons to dislike Larry? Pick any time he opened his mouth.
4) I know some typical old guys who would be quite offended by that comparison.
5) Softer side, my ass. The arrogant old bastard thought he was manipulating Brenda with his "charm".
It's bad enough you insist on seeing Lilly as some poor misunderstood victim (an image she wouldn't appreciate), but to tote Larry's banner as a "good guy"?
*gag*
It's bad I like Lilly? Well, I'm sorry that I'm not as fond of Kenny as you are.
There are plenty of reasons for one to like Lilly. What's bad is that you fail to acknowledge them.
I don't like Larry, but that doesn't mean I dislike him. I can understand why he does what he does and even though I don't agree with the way he does it, that still makes it easier to not dislike him.
I really think that you're making stuff up by declaring your assumptions as facts. I guess we all do that, but it is almost impossible to convince me that you're right. No offense.
I really think that your point 5. is really biased.
I didn't say it was bad you like Lilly and I didn't say I was fond of Kenny, those are your assumptions. I'm just asking for a balanced perspective rather than the broad stroke Lilly GOOD, Kenny BAD that you generally post. However, I suspect that's not going to happen. You guess I'm making stuff up? Prove it. I've made a lot of points you've chosen not to address at all.
You're right, my fifth point would be somewhat biased if Larry hadn't declared "Well that shouldn't be too hard, I've got charm coming out of my ass!"
I didn't say it was bad you like Lilly and I didn't say I was fond of Kenny, those are your assumptions. I'm just asking for a balanced perspective rather than the broad stroke Lilly GOOD, Kenny BAD that you generally post. However, I suspect that's not going to happen. You guess I'm making stuff up? Prove it. I've made a lot of points you've chosen not to address at all.
You're right, my fifth point would be somewhat biased if Larry hadn't declared "Well that shouldn't be too hard, I've got charm coming out of my ass!"
Balanced perspective? What's balanced perspective exactly? I'm always stating my reasons and why I side with one character or another. Just because I'm posting mostly about the decisions concerning Lilly, that doesn't mean I'm doing stuff her way just because she's involved.
You say I see it as Lilly GOOD, Kenny BAD. I do believe she's right most of the time although I do not always agree with her.
You may try to deny and tell me that you're not following anyone but most of your posts I've read are the exact opposite. Kenny RIGHT, Lilly WRONG. How is that more balanced than my perspective?
How am I to prove it to you? I'm always arguing with you about the stuff I believe are assumptions on your part but you present them as facts. What more can I do to prove it? It's your choice to either accept my reasoning or not. You suspect I'm not gonna change the way I see things, well I suspect you won't change your opinion either.
As to not addressing every point your make. Well, I'm sorry but there are a lot of people that post here and I'm kinda choosing to address the most interesting/provoking/unanswered things people say. I can't answer to everything everybody says, plus I don't think people care about my opinion that much.
If you do want me to address some particular point you've made, please quote yourself and I will. I don't mind discussing things with you, even though I doubt we will ever agree on something.
No. If I seem to lean toward Kenny, it's in an effort to balance the argument. You guess I'm making stuff up and you believe I make assumptions, yet you cite nothing in particular that I can refute and I don't like repeating myself. That's not a debate.
I was shocked Larry came to help in my Doug playthrough, and when I saw him getting all charmy with Brenda, my first reaction was 'that MFer is all smiles with this stranger but cant cut me an ounce of slack after all we've been through'...when I looked at it again I thought 'damn, Larry's got game?' After the Ep was done I realized he does have a decent side, but when he directs his ugly side on Lee, you cant help but take it personally.
My take on him is eventually he would've come around,(but who the hell is he that I should prove my worth to him?) and that if I had a choice I'd rather have kept him than Ben. Better to have an asset to the group with a bad attitude, than passive dead weight
Yeah, he saves you in ep.1 and leaves you to die how many times later?
You seriously amaze me. What are all those theories about Larry's apology? He apologized, deal with it.
You're just looking for more reasons to hate the guy.
And yeah, he's like many, many typical old guys. People who're ready to do the wrong thing in order to protect their girl. Basically he's like Kenny with the difference that he will still try to save you (with the axe in ep. 2) despite hating you, while once you really go on Kenny's bad side, there is no turning back.
Just because he's grumpy and whining doesn't necessarily making him a bad guy.
He was quite nice to Brenda in ep. 2, so he does have a softer side.
Larry tries to kill you because you killed a man who was sleeping with your wife. And he never apologised for that, just threatened you later. That makes him a bad guy. He also tried to kill Duck on very little evidence which is similar to what Kenny did (except Larry was a larger threat). So you're either saying Larry is a bad guy because he tried to do exactly what Kenny tried to do or that Kenny was right to kill Larry. I can't believe it's okay for Larry to try and protect his family but not Kenny. His apology didn't exactly sound sincere either.
And you talk about how he tried to save your life but it's not exactly as simple as Kenny doing it in ep 1. In ep 2 when the guy turned, he turned in the motel with the entire group, Lilly included. Seems to me he was trying to kill the walker because it was a threat to himself and Lilly. Put it this way
Ep 1: Kenny goes back and saves your life in a room full of walkers while everyone else gets away
Ep 2: A walker turns in the camp, Larry tries to kill it.
See the difference? Also at the most Lilly saves you're life once as does Kenny. He doesn't help you in the farm firstly because you just made him bash a guys brains out and take full responsibility for killing the guy even though it was the right call. In ep 3 *Insert my burning building reference here*
Thats funny, so am I. Because both must/will happen in order for the rest of the storyline to progress, regardless of player interaction.
The story isnt dynamic enough to branch off into a what if Kenny doesnt come for me at the drug store or what if I stopped Kenny from killing Larry. These are static, set points in the story. The only thing you can alter about them is people's perception about you before and after the events
But these set points in the story still tell us about the characters. Otherwise you're saying that Kenny killing Larry doesn't really tell us anything about his character as well as him saving you in the drug store.
My point is saying that Kenny's saving you in the drugstore doesn't matter because it is scripted is the same as saying him killing Larry isn't important because it is scripted.
No I'm not, you're changing your subject. This is what I initially replied to:
How did I change the subject, both posts are practically the same. What exactly is your argument regarding set points in the game? That they don't matter/ tell us about character?
Or is it just that Kenny hates you even though he saves your life?
How did I change the subject, both posts are practically the same. What exactly is your argument regarding set points in the game? That they don't matter/ tell us about character?
Or is it just that Kenny hates you even though he saves your life?
1st post you're talking about the importance of the event, not about what you, personally, learned from the character.
The event, everyone sees that the exact same way, on PC, on consoles, on phones. No matter what you said to the characters in the drug store before or after it, the results are the same. Cause that's the story and it wont progress until certain set points are reached. And yes, if you dont side with Kenny over Duck, he will immediately start resenting you despite rescuing you
How people interpret those events and the actions of the characters,which was your reply, will be completely different from one person to another.
In Episode 3 when in the drug store at the start, did Kenny leave you trapped under the door with walkers on top of it even if you were his BFF and sided with him on the Larry issue? just courious as I was left and didn't side with him on the Larry thing but had his back in EP1 and some of 2
In Episode 3 when in the drug store at the start, did Kenny leave you trapped under the door with walkers on top of it even if you were his BFF and sided with him on the Larry issue? just courious as I was left and didn't side with him on the Larry thing but had his back in EP1 and some of 2
If you helped him in the meat locker, he'll come over and help you out from under the door.
Oh, good to know, maybe one day I'll grow a pair and drag Lilly away from her dad - the horror.
It was painful to do, I admit. The worst part was where she breaks free, and hugs her dad while he's laying on the floor, and you have to pull her off again, still screaming, as Kenny walks over with the salt-lick on his shoulder. That entire scene made me feel like a bad person.
Larry tries to kill you because you killed a man who was sleeping with your wife. And he never apologised for that, just threatened you later. That makes him a bad guy. He also tried to kill Duck on very little evidence which is similar to what Kenny did (except Larry was a larger threat). So you're either saying Larry is a bad guy because he tried to do exactly what Kenny tried to do or that Kenny was right to kill Larry. I can't believe it's okay for Larry to try and protect his family but not Kenny. His apology didn't exactly sound sincere either.
And you talk about how he tried to save your life but it's not exactly as simple as Kenny doing it in ep 1. In ep 2 when the guy turned, he turned in the motel with the entire group, Lilly included. Seems to me he was trying to kill the walker because it was a threat to himself and Lilly. Put it this way
Ep 1: Kenny goes back and saves your life in a room full of walkers while everyone else gets away
Ep 2: A walker turns in the camp, Larry tries to kill it.
See the difference? Also at the most Lilly saves you're life once as does Kenny. He doesn't help you in the farm firstly because you just made him bash a guys brains out and take full responsibility for killing the guy even though it was the right call. In ep 3 *Insert my burning building reference here*
Larry didn't try to kill Duck. He was talking they got to throw him out because he was probably bitten and that they should smash his brain so he doesn't turn. Kenny tried to kill Larry and succeeded. Big difference.
Plus it's hypocritical of Kenny to let his probably bitten son with 10 other people and no weapons beside a gun (that they really shouldn't use) but kill Larry just because he MIGHT turn. Despite what you all say to convince yourselves you're right, Larry wasn't dead, not yet. What Kenny did was a cold murder, he never gave the guy a chance.
When you give up on your own like that, you're worthless piece of shit.
Back in the drugstore they were all strangers and Kenny did become aggressive and threatened to kill Larry, when he should've checked his son instead.
In ep.3 your "building reference doesn't really ring true". No matter how much I dislike Kenny, I've fed and saved his family. No matter how much he disliked me, he should've helped. It is as simple as that.
As for Larry's apology, it might have not been sincere (although I don't have a reason to believe it is not) but it was acknowledgement that he was mistaken. If that's not enough for this argument, I don't know what it is. He didn't run straight up and killed Duck based on suspicion.
Larry didn't try to kill Duck. He was talking they got to throw him out because he was probably bitten and that they should smash his brain so he doesn't turn. Kenny tried to kill Larry and succeeded. Big difference.
Plus it's hypocritical of Kenny to let his probably bitten son with 10 other people and no weapons beside a gun (that they really shouldn't use) but kill Larry just because he MIGHT turn. Despite what you all say to convince yourselves you're right, Larry wasn't dead, not yet. What Kenny did was a cold murder, he never gave the guy a chance.
When you give up on your own like that, you're worthless piece of shit.
Back in the drugstore they were all strangers and Kenny did become aggressive and threatened to kill Larry, when he should've checked his son instead.
In ep.3 your "building reference doesn't really ring true". No matter how much I dislike Kenny, I've fed and saved his family. No matter how much he disliked me, he should've helped. It is as simple as that.
As for Larry's apology, it might have noWt been sincere (although I don't have a reason to believe it is not) but it was acknowledgement that he was mistaken. If that's not enough for this argument, I don't know what it is. He didn't run straight up and killed Duck based on suspicion.
Firstly throwing someome out to the walkers and killin them has no difference. Except killing then would probably be a LOT less painful.
For the 10 people, you talking about the drugstore? Because there's a HUGE difference between the two situations, let's go over them.
1. Duck MAY be bitten, only proof is that hes covered in blood. The shop is fairly large, room to manoeuvre. Duck is small. Shooting doesn't matter, Carely shot her gun to save Lee before and it didn't cause any problems. And doesn't Lilly have a rifle?
2. Larry may be dead. High chance because the guy did just have a heart attack under huge stress. Last time we had to get him medicine which we can't do now. Only three people, no weapons. Meatlocker is enclosed with no space no manoeuvre, no where to run.
I can't believe you dont see that 1. is ALOT safer than 2. And so we could take the risk.
Also what proof is there that Larry isnt dead? About as much as Lilly had for Ben or Carely being traitors. It's a question of risk and the meat locker was a lot riskier than the drug store. If Kennys a cold murderer for killing a guy who might destroy everyone, what does that make Lilly? Also Katjaa was already checking him and whats the point if the old guy is seconds away from chucking him out, bitten or not.
And it's not as simple as *Guy helped me, gotta help him* Sure it's the right moral decision but in those situations you have to weigh up your odds. Can I save him? If someone's about to die and you can't save him, there's no point in sacrificing yourself. You have to think these situations in terms of risk and that's
makes these people survivors.
And I like how you say he didn't go and just kill Duck on suspicion because that was EXACTLY what he was going to do. If Kenny and Katjaa weren't there, he would have grabbed the kid and thrown him outside which is the same as murder.
Firstly throwing someome out to the walkers and killin them has no difference. Except killing then would probably be a LOT less painful.
For the 10 people, you talking about the drugstore? Because there's a HUGE difference between the two situations, let's go over them.
1. Duck MAY be bitten, only proof is that hes covered in blood. The shop is fairly large, room to manoeuvre. Duck is small. Shooting doesn't matter, Carely shot her gun to save Lee before and it didn't cause any problems. And doesn't Lilly have a rifle?
2. Larry may be dead. High chance because the guy did just have a heart attack under huge stress. Last time we had to get him medicine which we can't do now. Only three people, no weapons. Meatlocker is enclosed with no space no manoeuvre, no where to run.
I can't believe you dont see that 1. is ALOT safer than 2. And so we could take the risk.
Also what proof is there that Larry isnt dead? About as much as Lilly had for Ben or Carely being traitors. It's a question of risk and the meat locker was a lot riskier than the drug store. If Kennys a cold murderer for killing a guy who might destroy everyone, what does that make Lilly? Also Katjaa was already checking him and whats the point if the old guy is seconds away from chucking him out, bitten or not.
And it's not as simple as *Guy helped me, gotta help him* Sure it's the right moral decision but in those situations you have to weigh up your odds. Can I save him? If someone's about to die and you can't save him, there's no point in sacrificing yourself. You have to think these situations in terms of risk and that's
makes these people survivors.
And I like how you say he didn't go and just kill Duck on suspicion because that was EXACTLY what he was going to do. If Kenny and Katjaa weren't there, he would have grabbed the kid and thrown him outside which is the same as murder.
Lee and Lilly were there too but that didn't stop Kenny.
1. Duck may be bitten not because he's covered in muck, but because there was a walker on top of him. I realize that Kenny wants to protect his kid. However, threatening to kill a guy whom you've just met instead of checking your own damn son is absolutely stupid. Kenny was always a detriment to my socializing with people.
2. I've also stated that Lee and Lilly could've dealt with Larry if he turned, but since you do not accept it, I will say something else now.
In the drugstore you barely know this people. From Larry's point of you, some idiots just endangered the entire group and brought a possible walker into the drug store. Later he tries to leave a convicted murderer behind, he doesn't know he and doesn't want him near his daughter.
In ep. 2 time has passed and people have softened up to each other. Larry does save you if you give him the axe. Some people said he was acting in the best interest of his daughter, but still he could've killed the walker after it bit you, however he chooses to save you. Whether he does it because at this point he realizes you're valuable to the group or because he just doesn't hate you enough to let you die is up for discussion. The fact remains however that he saves you.
The scene in the meat locker is very special in my opinion because it should've been US against THEM. They ate Mark and threatened to kill us all. They hold Duck and Katjaa as hostages.
Kenny's act in the meat locker felt as if he backstabbed me with a knife. In ep. 2 I was trying to keep everybody safe, fed his kid and he just killed a member of our group. We were trying to save Larry, he should've respected our attempt. I would rather deal with a walker Larry than smash his head in such a way. There were better ways of approaching the situation and his way was probable the worst. He got angry (he even shoves you away and calls you useless if you don't act (who was useless when I was saving Shawn...)) and kills Larry in cold blood. He destroyed two lives in that meat locker as well as our unity as a group. Why do you think Ben didn't tell us about the bandits? He was insecure, because apparently our group doesn't tolerate liabilities and kills them. Why does Lilly say the list of people she can trust gets shorter every day? Is it because she's a paranoid bitch (as most people call her) or because after the meat locker it is apparent she can't trust anybody?
Kenny indirectly destroyed our group. Lilly's murder is a direct result of Kenny's actions. Had Larry died in different circumstances she wouldn't have lost it and get distrustful.
How do you think would Kenny react if it was Duck in the meat locker and Lee or Larry smashed Duck's head?
Kenny was absolutely in the wrong in the meat locker and there is really no question about it in my mind.
I agree that if Larry turned it would be really bad and some of them might probably be bitten but I think that the risk is worth it if you think about what happens in ep. 3 because of Kenny's choice.
To be honest, after the meat locker scene the only people I cared about was Lilly, Carley and Clem. There was no more group mentality for me, because Kenny smashed it with a salt-lick.
His leaving me for dead in Macon only strengthened that.
1st post you're talking about the importance of the event, not about what you, personally, learned from the character.
The event, everyone sees that the exact same way, on PC, on consoles, on phones. No matter what you said to the characters in the drug store before or after it, the results are the same. Cause that's the story and it wont progress until certain set points are reached. And yes, if you dont side with Kenny over Duck, he will immediately start resenting you despite rescuing you
How people interpret those events and the actions of the characters,which was your reply, will be completely different from one person to another.
Shows that Kenny is a better man than Larry then. You nearly kill his son, and he saves you're life. Larry tries to kill you because you killed a guy sleeping with your wife. Kenny doesn't try to kill anyone.
Also I thought you were simply saying "Since it's a set point, it can't really reflect on a character" My mistake.
Lee and Lilly were there too but that didn't stop Kenny.
1. Duck may be bitten not because he's covered in muck, but because there was a walker on top of him. I realize that Kenny wants to protect his kid. However, threatening to kill a guy whom you've just met instead of checking your own damn son is absolutely stupid. Kenny was always a detriment to my socializing with people.
2. I've also stated that Lee and Lilly could've dealt with Larry if he turned, but since you do not accept it, I will say something else now.
In the drugstore you barely know this people. From Larry's point of you, some idiots just endangered the entire group and brought a possible walker into the drug store. Later he tries to leave a convicted murderer behind, he doesn't know he and doesn't want him near his daughter.
In ep. 2 time has passed and people have softened up to each other. Larry does save you if you give him the axe. Some people said he was acting in the best interest of his daughter, but still he could've killed the walker after it bit you, however he chooses to save you. Whether he does it because at this point he realizes you're valuable to the group or because he just doesn't hate you enough to let you die is up for discussion. The fact remains however that he saves you.
The scene in the meat locker is very special in my opinion because it should've been US against THEM. They ate Mark and threatened to kill us all. They hold Duck and Katjaa as hostages.
Kenny's act in the meat locker felt as if he backstabbed me with a knife. In ep. 2 I was trying to keep everybody safe, fed his kid and he just killed a member of our group. We were trying to save Larry, he should've respected our attempt. I would rather deal with a walker Larry than smash his head in such a way. There were better ways of approaching the situation and his way was probable the worst. He got angry (he even shoves you away and calls you useless if you don't act (who was useless when I was saving Shawn...)) and kills Larry in cold blood. He destroyed two lives in that meat locker as well as our unity as a group. Why do you think Ben didn't tell us about the bandits? He was insecure, because apparently our group doesn't tolerate liabilities and kills them. Why does Lilly say the list of people she can trust gets shorter every day? Is it because she's a paranoid bitch (as most people call her) or because after the meat locker it is apparent she can't trust anybody?
Kenny indirectly destroyed our group. Lilly's murder is a direct result of Kenny's actions. Had Larry died in different circumstances she wouldn't have lost it and get distrustful.
How do you think would Kenny react if it was Duck in the meat locker and Lee or Larry smashed Duck's head?
Kenny was absolutely in the wrong in the meat locker and there is really no question about it in my mind.
I agree that if Larry turned it would be really bad and some of them might probably be bitten but I think that the risk is worth it if you think about what happens in ep. 3 because of Kenny's choice.
To be honest, after the meat locker scene the only people I cared about was Lilly, Carley and Clem. There was no more group mentality for me, because Kenny smashed it with a salt-lick.
His leaving me for dead in Macon only strengthened that.
Firstly yes a walker was on top of Duck but that doesn't mean he was bit, as the game shows. Also Kat was already searching Duck for bites. AND Larry obviously wasnt going to wait for proof, he was going to throw him out right there and then, not wait for Kat to find the bite and proof he was doing the wrong thing. Kenny needed to delay him for Kat to have a chance to prove Ducks innocence.
How could Lee and Lilly deal with Larry with no weapons and very close to him? They aren't ninjas. I can't remember seeing Lee kill a walker with his bare hands and I've never seen Lily fight one.
And again I think Larry saw the walker and tried to kill it. It was a danger to everyone. You have to admit its not half as obvious as Kenny going back to save you.
And again, Kenny had to do a terrible thing and it did fracture the group as in Lilly vs Everyone Else. But I'd rather have that than everyone in the group die. You don't deal with huge zombie Larry, you stand there and scream while he eats you. And I don't think Ben even knew about what happened with Larry. He saw how angry and scary Lilly was and so didn't tell anyone, he saw how unhinged she got. Sure that was a side effect if Larry but I'm not going to blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. Especially since Kenny might have saved everyone with his decision. And sure Kenny would have freaked out if Duck was the one to die. He might have attacked Larry. But it would have still been the right choice and I'm glad Kenny was smart enough to kill Larry.
And sorry but if it's a choice between killing group mentality and everyone dieing, I'll smash group mentality with a salt lick every time.
And I've already been over why he didn't immediately save your Lee in Macin. I'll refer you to my "Running into burning building for guy you don't like who might not even live"
Firstly yes a walker was on top of Duck but that doesn't mean he was bit, as the game shows. Also Kat was already searching Duck for bites. AND Larry obviously wasnt going to wait for proof, he was going to throw him out right there and then, not wait for Kat to find the bite and proof he was doing the wrong thing. Kenny needed to delay him for Kat to have a chance to prove Ducks innocence.
How could Lee and Lilly deal with Larry with no weapons and very close to him? They aren't ninjas. I can't remember seeing Lee kill a walker with his bare hands and I've never seen Lily fight one.
And again I think Larry saw the walker and tried to kill it. It was a danger to everyone. You have to admit its not half as obvious as Kenny going back to save you.
And again, Kenny had to do a terrible thing and it did fracture the group as in Lilly vs Everyone Else. But I'd rather have that than everyone in the group die. You don't deal with huge zombie Larry, you stand there and scream while he eats you. And I don't think Ben even knew about what happened with Larry. He saw how angry and scary Lilly was and so didn't tell anyone, he saw how unhinged she got. Sure that was a side effect if Larry but I'm not going to blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. Especially since Kenny might have saved everyone with his decision. And sure Kenny would have freaked out if Duck was the one to die. He might have attacked Larry. But it would have still been the right choice and I'm glad Kenny was smart enough to kill Larry.
And sorry but if it's a choice between killing group mentality and everyone dieing, I'll smash group mentality with a salt lick every time.
And I've already been over why he didn't immediately save your Lee in Macin. I'll refer you to my "Running into burning building for guy you don't like who might not even live"
Larry was not necessarily dead and I've seen Lee fight zombies with bare hands. Kenny would've dropped the salt-lick, after and IF Larry turned. Larry was between life and death, but he wasn't dead, so yeah this was a murder in my book. I do blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. He killed her dad without any proof, just because we HAD to focus on his family. In my original playthrough I didn't side with Larry on the argument in the drugstore and I didn't later kill him in the meat locker. I do try to help the people in my group, even if I didn't like them. I also shot the poor girl in ep. 3 because that was the morally right call. What is the point to be in a group if I can't rely on my peers? If they're gonna leave me for dead when I'm in a tight spot, then I'm better off on my own.
What if Lee needed help instead of Larry in the meat locker? Would you so happy if Kenny dropped a salt-lick on Lee's head?
I think there was a thread around here in which the OP was asking what would you do if other members were in the position of Larry. Most said they would try to help or at least check for a pulse before they do anything. Killing Larry is mostly affected by the fact that people do not like him.
Larry was not necessarily dead and I've seen Lee fight zombies with bare hands. Kenny would've dropped the salt-lick, after and IF Larry turned. Larry was between life and death, but he wasn't dead, so yeah this was a murder in my book. I do blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. He killed her dad without any proof, just because we HAD to focus on his family. In my original playthrough I didn't side with Larry on the argument in the drugstore and I didn't later kill him in the meat locker. I do try to help the people in my group, even if I didn't like them. I also shot the poor girl in ep. 3 because that was the morally right call. What is the point to be in a group if I can't rely on my peers? If they're gonna leave me for dead when I'm in a tight spot, then I'm better off on my own.
What if Lee needed help instead of Larry in the meat locker? Would you so happy if Kenny dropped a salt-lick on Lee's head?
I think there was a thread around here in which the OP was asking what would you do if other members were in the position of Larry. Most said they would try to help or at least check for a pulse before they do anything. Killing Larry is mostly affected by the fact that people do not like him.
There was a high chance Larry was dead, and has Lee ever killed a zombie win his bare hands? I can't remember a time that happened. Also Larry is huge and they are in a very confined space. And Lilly probably wouldnt help, she would be in shock. And zombies tend you jump up when they reincarnate. Remember the first walker Lee saw? One as big as Larry, Kenny would have to throw it high and if he missed or was too weak from hunger, they are all dead. That's actually another point, when's the last time the characters eat? Kenny and Lily eat some human flesh, but Lilly threw it up. Lee didn't even get that, and he didn't eat the rations either. Imagine how weak those characters must be, they are in the worst possible shape to fight a walker, especially one like Larry.
You say with such certainty that he wasnt dead, but do you have any proof. Or is this a decision like Lilly's/Larry's in which no proof is required. :P
Killing Larry also wasn't just about Kennys family, it's about everyone! Lee, Kenny and Lilly trapped with a huge walker. They die, Duck an Kat get no help. Carley and Ben get no warning. Everyone dies. And think about t. If you kill Larry and you were wrong, 1 man dies. If you spare Larry and you are wrong, everyone dies. It's pretty simple. And I would have been happy with Kenny smashing Lee's brains out because it's the smart choice. And theres loads of reasons to have a group. Without Kenny, you would never had gotten a ride to Macon. And you'd have one less person going hunting and covering you while you cut off a guys leg. No one to fix up the RV either, so you couldnt use t to get away. Not to mention the fact that at least Kenny had the guts to come with you. Never seen Lilly leave the camp and help get supplies.
That seems to be everything, I'm going to bed. Gnight.
Comments
Larry will also apologize if Lee doesn't try to escalate the disagreement and keeps his mouth shut...
No bending over and taking it required.
Thank you, Xarne. Well about Larry the thing is to me he is a typical old guy. I've seen many people like him, old, grumpy, always whining and everything.
I remember he tried to stop me from going with the group in ep. 1. However, I trust Lilly (who I think this video showed isn't all power-hungry girl) and I think she's right when she says he has his issues but isn't that bad.
He will come and try to help you if you give him the axe, instead of mark.
That's something. He will, of course, whine about it but will help. Given the fact that he hates you and knows you're a murderer, he surpasses Kenny in ep. 2.
Cyreen, I really think you're in the wrong here. Kenny asks you to bend over and take it from him if you're to be his buddy. Even when he's wrong, he demands that you agree with him.
Even if you're silent, he will be offended. That's how possessive he is!
Larry doesn't want anything from you and so does Lilly. She only needs you to show some compassion and humanity in the meat locker and she'll forgive you even if you treated her like shit.
It's her dad you're helping after all. Kenny will however forget everything you've done for him and his family the instant you didn't side with him.
I don't do all Lilly choices just so I can be on her side. I do them because there is logic in them and sound better than Kenny's emotional "My family must be taken care of" decisions.
There was no way Duck was bitten so I don't even know how you could even make the decision to back up Larry. Thanks for the video.
No problem, mate
How was there no way Duck could've been bitten? The walker was on top of him, plus a simple scratch would be enough as well.
It's funny you say that there was no way he could've been bitten when in fact in ep. 3 the exact same scene develops with a walker on top of him. That time however, Duck was bitten.
I think that by making the second scene almost as exact as the first one, the developers are actually trying to tell us that Duck could've been bitten the first time as well.
Yeah, in ep 3 it was bit different because the camera cuts away. In the first incident it was focused until the walker was dealt with and I didn't see him get bitten. Although now I look at it again I can see how he could've taken a bite so I admit I was wrong on that lol.
Ok here is the start of a long line of quotes and rebuttals.
Firstly Kenny takes a bullet for his son. Literally charges a man with a gun to try and save him. And you say he doesn't care about anyone? Seems legit. Did you not see he tears when his family died? And it wasn't his "general ego" that made him not want to stop the train, it's the feeling that if he stops, he is giving up on Duck. He couldn't come to terms with his sons inevitable death.
Also Lee snapped when he saw a guy sleeping with his wife.
Lilly snapped when Carely called her a bitch and stuck up for Ben.
:P
It wasn't a apology, it was a acknowledgement of the fact that he was wrong in the appearance of a apology.
Kenny killed him in cold blood? Nope sorry. Kenny did it to save himself and his family sure but it was still the right call. You talk about how Lilly makes hard decisions, but then support risking the entire group for one guy who might be dead. And I BET that if Kenny was the one bitten, Larry would smash his head in quickly. He was going to kill someome whos less risk in the pharmacy. Lilly would have killed Kenny as well, because she was willing to watch on in the pharmacy. If she let a child die, it's because he thought her dad was right or she's too weak to stand up and not let some kid die love Carely.
And on Carely, she and Lilly did fight in ep 1 and Lilly having a grudge is one of the few reasons I can find for Lilly killing her. Except of course because Carely called her a bitch and sees a phyco. And can you come up with a good reason for Carelu being a suspect. Hope you can. Carley called Lilly a bitch by the way, because she was threatening Ben and Carely won't stand by and watch him be killed on no evidence. Do you know what's funny? Larry wants to kill a kid in ep 1 on little evidence because he might be a danger. Lilly wants to kill Ben because in ep 3 on even less evidence and he isn't even a immediate danger. And you are fine with both of those things. But Kenny wants to kill Larry who has had a heart attack and has a high chance of reaminating and killing everyone and suddenly it's horrible? I've also been through why Duck in the pharmacy is a lower threat than Larry in the locker btw.
Think that's everything for now, off to the next post!
Do you remember how quickly the legless guy turned. Kat calls you over, you talk for a tiny bit and then the guy came back. With Larry it could have been seconds before he gets up and bites people. Maybe that's why they took Lilly's word and weren't so eager to start checking? And did you see his face after he killed him. There was no satisfaction, he was horrified at what he had to do. And leaving Lilly behind at the motel was the smart thing to do. Bandits and walkers were storming the place and everyone was packed into one small vulnerable RV. Can't blame him for not wanting to sit around waiting.
...in order to back out of the situation, it was nothing but an exit line. As for his "apology" when reasoning with him, I believe it was something along the lines of, "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to protect my daughter", before continuing to advocate killing a kid.
Larry is an argument not worth having. He was an ugly, abusive man, with ugly, warped motivations and he certainly didn't do Lilly any favors. I may have tried to save him, but I do believe what Kenny did, although premature, was right.
Typical old people don't make themselves judge, jury and executioner (kind of like Lilly, apple doesn't fall far from tree does it?) He was ready to kill a child because he might have been bitten, same as how Larry might have died, except Larry was more of a threat of course
Larry punched me and left me for dead because I killed a guy and he obviously didn't even know the details of the crime. If Lee was a serial killer, sure I can forgive him, but Lee killed one person for understandable reasons. A lot more understandable than Lilly's anyway :P
Also Kenny saves my and your Lee even if you were about to kill Duck. You're "He hates you if you dont always side with him" argument is dead. Also I think Kenny always expects you to side with him because he has so far been always right!
Kenny saves you in Ep1; just like Lily leaves in Ep3. Its part of the story/game design. He'll call you an asshole if you didnt side with him. Just like Lily will leave either by shoving you out of the RV or with some other less hostile action if she likes you.
Kenny being always right? That's debateable.
Just saying "Its part of the story/game design" isn't a great argument. What's to stop me saying Kenny killing Larry isn't important it's just part of the game design? We can't say somethings a character do reflect on them, and something's don't because "game design"
And I'm happy to debate it. :P
Someone said 'Kenny hates you if you dont side with his family', and this is true. You said this is false because he saves you even though you side against Duck.
I'm telling you no matter what you do in that drugstore, the story is going to save you and that savior is always going to be Kenny: by design of the game. It's a scripted event.
And yes, Kenny is going to kill Larry. Just like in the drugstore, nothing you say or do will alter that event. The similarity with both scenarios is the same: your input is noted and then stored in the memories of the survivors.
It's not so much my argument, its just how it is
My point is saying that Kenny's saving you in the drugstore doesn't matter because it is scripted is the same as saying him killing Larry isn't important because it is scripted.
Thats funny, so am I. Because both must/will happen in order for the rest of the storyline to progress, regardless of player interaction.
The story isnt dynamic enough to branch off into a what if Kenny doesnt come for me at the drug store or what if I stopped Kenny from killing Larry. These are static, set points in the story. The only thing you can alter about them is people's perception about you before and after the events
You seriously amaze me. What are all those theories about Larry's apology? He apologized, deal with it.
You're just looking for more reasons to hate the guy.
And yeah, he's like many, many typical old guys. People who're ready to do the wrong thing in order to protect their girl. Basically he's like Kenny with the difference that he will still try to save you (with the axe in ep. 2) despite hating you, while once you really go on Kenny's bad side, there is no turning back.
Just because he's grumpy and whining doesn't necessarily making him a bad guy.
He was quite nice to Brenda in ep. 2, so he does have a softer side.
2) If someone apologized to me in that tone, I'd tell 'em to stick it.
3) Reasons to dislike Larry? Pick any time he opened his mouth.
4) I know some typical old guys who would be quite offended by that comparison.
5) Softer side, my ass. The arrogant old bastard thought he was manipulating Brenda with his "charm".
It's bad enough you insist on seeing Lilly as some poor misunderstood victim (an image she wouldn't appreciate), but to tote Larry's banner as a "good guy"?
*gag*
It's bad I like Lilly? Well, I'm sorry that I'm not as fond of Kenny as you are.
There are plenty of reasons for one to like Lilly. What's bad is that you fail to acknowledge them.
I don't like Larry, but that doesn't mean I dislike him. I can understand why he does what he does and even though I don't agree with the way he does it, that still makes it easier to not dislike him.
I really think that you're making stuff up by declaring your assumptions as facts. I guess we all do that, but it is almost impossible to convince me that you're right. No offense.
I really think that your point 5. is really biased.
You're right, my fifth point would be somewhat biased if Larry hadn't declared "Well that shouldn't be too hard, I've got charm coming out of my ass!"
Balanced perspective? What's balanced perspective exactly? I'm always stating my reasons and why I side with one character or another. Just because I'm posting mostly about the decisions concerning Lilly, that doesn't mean I'm doing stuff her way just because she's involved.
You say I see it as Lilly GOOD, Kenny BAD. I do believe she's right most of the time although I do not always agree with her.
You may try to deny and tell me that you're not following anyone but most of your posts I've read are the exact opposite. Kenny RIGHT, Lilly WRONG. How is that more balanced than my perspective?
How am I to prove it to you? I'm always arguing with you about the stuff I believe are assumptions on your part but you present them as facts. What more can I do to prove it? It's your choice to either accept my reasoning or not. You suspect I'm not gonna change the way I see things, well I suspect you won't change your opinion either.
As to not addressing every point your make. Well, I'm sorry but there are a lot of people that post here and I'm kinda choosing to address the most interesting/provoking/unanswered things people say. I can't answer to everything everybody says, plus I don't think people care about my opinion that much.
If you do want me to address some particular point you've made, please quote yourself and I will. I don't mind discussing things with you, even though I doubt we will ever agree on something.
My take on him is eventually he would've come around,(but who the hell is he that I should prove my worth to him?) and that if I had a choice I'd rather have kept him than Ben. Better to have an asset to the group with a bad attitude, than passive dead weight
Larry tries to kill you because you killed a man who was sleeping with your wife. And he never apologised for that, just threatened you later. That makes him a bad guy. He also tried to kill Duck on very little evidence which is similar to what Kenny did (except Larry was a larger threat). So you're either saying Larry is a bad guy because he tried to do exactly what Kenny tried to do or that Kenny was right to kill Larry. I can't believe it's okay for Larry to try and protect his family but not Kenny. His apology didn't exactly sound sincere either.
And you talk about how he tried to save your life but it's not exactly as simple as Kenny doing it in ep 1. In ep 2 when the guy turned, he turned in the motel with the entire group, Lilly included. Seems to me he was trying to kill the walker because it was a threat to himself and Lilly. Put it this way
Ep 1: Kenny goes back and saves your life in a room full of walkers while everyone else gets away
Ep 2: A walker turns in the camp, Larry tries to kill it.
See the difference? Also at the most Lilly saves you're life once as does Kenny. He doesn't help you in the farm firstly because you just made him bash a guys brains out and take full responsibility for killing the guy even though it was the right call. In ep 3 *Insert my burning building reference here*
But these set points in the story still tell us about the characters. Otherwise you're saying that Kenny killing Larry doesn't really tell us anything about his character as well as him saving you in the drug store.
No I'm not, you're changing your subject. This is what I initially replied to:
Now you're talking about character development
How did I change the subject, both posts are practically the same. What exactly is your argument regarding set points in the game? That they don't matter/ tell us about character?
Or is it just that Kenny hates you even though he saves your life?
1st post you're talking about the importance of the event, not about what you, personally, learned from the character.
The event, everyone sees that the exact same way, on PC, on consoles, on phones. No matter what you said to the characters in the drug store before or after it, the results are the same. Cause that's the story and it wont progress until certain set points are reached. And yes, if you dont side with Kenny over Duck, he will immediately start resenting you despite rescuing you
How people interpret those events and the actions of the characters,which was your reply, will be completely different from one person to another.
If you helped him in the meat locker, he'll come over and help you out from under the door.
Oh, good to know, maybe one day I'll grow a pair and drag Lilly away from her dad - the horror.
It was painful to do, I admit. The worst part was where she breaks free, and hugs her dad while he's laying on the floor, and you have to pull her off again, still screaming, as Kenny walks over with the salt-lick on his shoulder. That entire scene made me feel like a bad person.
Larry didn't try to kill Duck. He was talking they got to throw him out because he was probably bitten and that they should smash his brain so he doesn't turn. Kenny tried to kill Larry and succeeded. Big difference.
Plus it's hypocritical of Kenny to let his probably bitten son with 10 other people and no weapons beside a gun (that they really shouldn't use) but kill Larry just because he MIGHT turn. Despite what you all say to convince yourselves you're right, Larry wasn't dead, not yet. What Kenny did was a cold murder, he never gave the guy a chance.
When you give up on your own like that, you're worthless piece of shit.
Back in the drugstore they were all strangers and Kenny did become aggressive and threatened to kill Larry, when he should've checked his son instead.
In ep.3 your "building reference doesn't really ring true". No matter how much I dislike Kenny, I've fed and saved his family. No matter how much he disliked me, he should've helped. It is as simple as that.
As for Larry's apology, it might have not been sincere (although I don't have a reason to believe it is not) but it was acknowledgement that he was mistaken. If that's not enough for this argument, I don't know what it is. He didn't run straight up and killed Duck based on suspicion.
Firstly throwing someome out to the walkers and killin them has no difference. Except killing then would probably be a LOT less painful.
For the 10 people, you talking about the drugstore? Because there's a HUGE difference between the two situations, let's go over them.
1. Duck MAY be bitten, only proof is that hes covered in blood. The shop is fairly large, room to manoeuvre. Duck is small. Shooting doesn't matter, Carely shot her gun to save Lee before and it didn't cause any problems. And doesn't Lilly have a rifle?
2. Larry may be dead. High chance because the guy did just have a heart attack under huge stress. Last time we had to get him medicine which we can't do now. Only three people, no weapons. Meatlocker is enclosed with no space no manoeuvre, no where to run.
I can't believe you dont see that 1. is ALOT safer than 2. And so we could take the risk.
Also what proof is there that Larry isnt dead? About as much as Lilly had for Ben or Carely being traitors. It's a question of risk and the meat locker was a lot riskier than the drug store. If Kennys a cold murderer for killing a guy who might destroy everyone, what does that make Lilly? Also Katjaa was already checking him and whats the point if the old guy is seconds away from chucking him out, bitten or not.
And it's not as simple as *Guy helped me, gotta help him* Sure it's the right moral decision but in those situations you have to weigh up your odds. Can I save him? If someone's about to die and you can't save him, there's no point in sacrificing yourself. You have to think these situations in terms of risk and that's
makes these people survivors.
And I like how you say he didn't go and just kill Duck on suspicion because that was EXACTLY what he was going to do. If Kenny and Katjaa weren't there, he would have grabbed the kid and thrown him outside which is the same as murder.
Lee and Lilly were there too but that didn't stop Kenny.
1. Duck may be bitten not because he's covered in muck, but because there was a walker on top of him. I realize that Kenny wants to protect his kid. However, threatening to kill a guy whom you've just met instead of checking your own damn son is absolutely stupid. Kenny was always a detriment to my socializing with people.
2. I've also stated that Lee and Lilly could've dealt with Larry if he turned, but since you do not accept it, I will say something else now.
In the drugstore you barely know this people. From Larry's point of you, some idiots just endangered the entire group and brought a possible walker into the drug store. Later he tries to leave a convicted murderer behind, he doesn't know he and doesn't want him near his daughter.
In ep. 2 time has passed and people have softened up to each other. Larry does save you if you give him the axe. Some people said he was acting in the best interest of his daughter, but still he could've killed the walker after it bit you, however he chooses to save you. Whether he does it because at this point he realizes you're valuable to the group or because he just doesn't hate you enough to let you die is up for discussion. The fact remains however that he saves you.
The scene in the meat locker is very special in my opinion because it should've been US against THEM. They ate Mark and threatened to kill us all. They hold Duck and Katjaa as hostages.
Kenny's act in the meat locker felt as if he backstabbed me with a knife. In ep. 2 I was trying to keep everybody safe, fed his kid and he just killed a member of our group. We were trying to save Larry, he should've respected our attempt. I would rather deal with a walker Larry than smash his head in such a way. There were better ways of approaching the situation and his way was probable the worst. He got angry (he even shoves you away and calls you useless if you don't act (who was useless when I was saving Shawn...)) and kills Larry in cold blood. He destroyed two lives in that meat locker as well as our unity as a group. Why do you think Ben didn't tell us about the bandits? He was insecure, because apparently our group doesn't tolerate liabilities and kills them. Why does Lilly say the list of people she can trust gets shorter every day? Is it because she's a paranoid bitch (as most people call her) or because after the meat locker it is apparent she can't trust anybody?
Kenny indirectly destroyed our group. Lilly's murder is a direct result of Kenny's actions. Had Larry died in different circumstances she wouldn't have lost it and get distrustful.
How do you think would Kenny react if it was Duck in the meat locker and Lee or Larry smashed Duck's head?
Kenny was absolutely in the wrong in the meat locker and there is really no question about it in my mind.
I agree that if Larry turned it would be really bad and some of them might probably be bitten but I think that the risk is worth it if you think about what happens in ep. 3 because of Kenny's choice.
To be honest, after the meat locker scene the only people I cared about was Lilly, Carley and Clem. There was no more group mentality for me, because Kenny smashed it with a salt-lick.
His leaving me for dead in Macon only strengthened that.
Shows that Kenny is a better man than Larry then. You nearly kill his son, and he saves you're life. Larry tries to kill you because you killed a guy sleeping with your wife. Kenny doesn't try to kill anyone.
Also I thought you were simply saying "Since it's a set point, it can't really reflect on a character" My mistake.
Firstly yes a walker was on top of Duck but that doesn't mean he was bit, as the game shows. Also Kat was already searching Duck for bites. AND Larry obviously wasnt going to wait for proof, he was going to throw him out right there and then, not wait for Kat to find the bite and proof he was doing the wrong thing. Kenny needed to delay him for Kat to have a chance to prove Ducks innocence.
How could Lee and Lilly deal with Larry with no weapons and very close to him? They aren't ninjas. I can't remember seeing Lee kill a walker with his bare hands and I've never seen Lily fight one.
And again I think Larry saw the walker and tried to kill it. It was a danger to everyone. You have to admit its not half as obvious as Kenny going back to save you.
And again, Kenny had to do a terrible thing and it did fracture the group as in Lilly vs Everyone Else. But I'd rather have that than everyone in the group die. You don't deal with huge zombie Larry, you stand there and scream while he eats you. And I don't think Ben even knew about what happened with Larry. He saw how angry and scary Lilly was and so didn't tell anyone, he saw how unhinged she got. Sure that was a side effect if Larry but I'm not going to blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. Especially since Kenny might have saved everyone with his decision. And sure Kenny would have freaked out if Duck was the one to die. He might have attacked Larry. But it would have still been the right choice and I'm glad Kenny was smart enough to kill Larry.
And sorry but if it's a choice between killing group mentality and everyone dieing, I'll smash group mentality with a salt lick every time.
And I've already been over why he didn't immediately save your Lee in Macin. I'll refer you to my "Running into burning building for guy you don't like who might not even live"
Larry was not necessarily dead and I've seen Lee fight zombies with bare hands. Kenny would've dropped the salt-lick, after and IF Larry turned. Larry was between life and death, but he wasn't dead, so yeah this was a murder in my book. I do blame Kenny for Lilly's behaviour. He killed her dad without any proof, just because we HAD to focus on his family. In my original playthrough I didn't side with Larry on the argument in the drugstore and I didn't later kill him in the meat locker. I do try to help the people in my group, even if I didn't like them. I also shot the poor girl in ep. 3 because that was the morally right call. What is the point to be in a group if I can't rely on my peers? If they're gonna leave me for dead when I'm in a tight spot, then I'm better off on my own.
What if Lee needed help instead of Larry in the meat locker? Would you so happy if Kenny dropped a salt-lick on Lee's head?
I think there was a thread around here in which the OP was asking what would you do if other members were in the position of Larry. Most said they would try to help or at least check for a pulse before they do anything. Killing Larry is mostly affected by the fact that people do not like him.
There was a high chance Larry was dead, and has Lee ever killed a zombie win his bare hands? I can't remember a time that happened. Also Larry is huge and they are in a very confined space. And Lilly probably wouldnt help, she would be in shock. And zombies tend you jump up when they reincarnate. Remember the first walker Lee saw? One as big as Larry, Kenny would have to throw it high and if he missed or was too weak from hunger, they are all dead. That's actually another point, when's the last time the characters eat? Kenny and Lily eat some human flesh, but Lilly threw it up. Lee didn't even get that, and he didn't eat the rations either. Imagine how weak those characters must be, they are in the worst possible shape to fight a walker, especially one like Larry.
You say with such certainty that he wasnt dead, but do you have any proof. Or is this a decision like Lilly's/Larry's in which no proof is required. :P
Killing Larry also wasn't just about Kennys family, it's about everyone! Lee, Kenny and Lilly trapped with a huge walker. They die, Duck an Kat get no help. Carley and Ben get no warning. Everyone dies. And think about t. If you kill Larry and you were wrong, 1 man dies. If you spare Larry and you are wrong, everyone dies. It's pretty simple. And I would have been happy with Kenny smashing Lee's brains out because it's the smart choice. And theres loads of reasons to have a group. Without Kenny, you would never had gotten a ride to Macon. And you'd have one less person going hunting and covering you while you cut off a guys leg. No one to fix up the RV either, so you couldnt use t to get away. Not to mention the fact that at least Kenny had the guts to come with you. Never seen Lilly leave the camp and help get supplies.
That seems to be everything, I'm going to bed. Gnight.