A hugely difficult decision in season 2?
One thing I'd really like to see is Clem having to choose between saving Kenny and Lily the same way Lee had to choose between Doug and Carly at some point, assuming they both survived. Who would you choose? Why?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Kenny, because he's awesome. Don't like Lilly all that much, and she's plenty capable on her own.
The real difficult decision of Season 2 should be:
Definitely Kenny.
As Clementine I would always remember Lilly as the woman who was mad at Carley for saving me and Lee, and was supportive of her scary, angry father who wanted to kick us out and kill Duck, and was constantly threatening Lee.
The woman who wanted to kill Ben and shot Carley, with this cold, remorseless look on her face... versus Kenny, the father who loved his boy, the husband of a woman that was always kind to me ?.
My decision would be very quick, I would not even hesitate one second about it.
One was a good person, the other was not.
Kenny is dead, but if he wasn't it'd ALWAYS be Lilly. Best character in the game imo..
How was Kenny a good person, though? He left Lee to die on a number of occasions! And, he killed Larry when he could have been revived! Kenny is as much of a murderer as Lilly.
I think the parts that make this decision a little more difficult are Kenny killing Larry (determinant: while Lee was trying to save his life) and Kenny forcing us to steal from the stranger when Clem, Lily (determinant: and Lee) refused because it ended up costing Lee his life. Kenny also didn't really want to look for Clem's parents; he was pushing Lee to focus more on the boat, which probably didn't go unnoticed by her.
To be honest I wouldn't be sure which to opt for, after EP 2 I was more sympathetic to Lilly than Kenny following him killing her father. Then Lilly killed Carley in EP 3 and boy did that tick me off. So I dunno. I think my gut would be Kenny to be saved. Even if I ended up disliking his morals I loved his character. But I was pretty much the same with Lilly. Kenny just happened to be about longer.
In my playthrough, the murder of Carley in cold blood by Lilly settles this once and for all.
Even Clementine could understand that Larry posed a potential enormous threat, and Kenny was doing something he believed would save us from death - he was perhaps wrong, we'll never know, but it's a HUGE difference with Lilly shooting Carley in the face just like that (and whose original plan was to kill Ben).
Besides, from a child's point of view, the fact that Kenny was a good father and cared for his son -another kid just like Clementine was- really means something - if only for that he was obviously a good man, whatever else he did wrong.
Lilly caring about her father is not the same, it was grown-ups relationships, something kids don't relate as much with. They find it hard to perceive adults as former children, so it doesn't really speak to them. And Larry always had this scary, menacing attitude - he's a man who would have killed Duck when he was still breathing, and wanted to kick Lee and Clementine out of the store, sending them back to the walkers.
Instinctively, you also judge people by the ones that love them and the ones they love.
He could have been revived ? How do you know that ? Nobody knows. He looked dead, there was a solid reason to believe he was dead (heart attack), and therefore he was potentially a huge threat. You can accuse Kenny of having misjudged the situation (on what facts though?) and to have made too quickly his decision as he was freaking out, but you can't deny he believed he was saving everybody in the room from a horrible death at the hands of a huge zombie. For all we know, that may very well be the case, he might have saved us.
Therefore -"Kenny is as much of a murderer as Lilly"- how do you even dare to compare Kenny's action with Lilly shooting Carley in the face as she posed absolutely no threat at the moment ?
What was the justification to kill her here and now, just because she was pissed at her ? First she suspected Ben, then as soon Carley took his defense, suddenly Lilly thought it was Carley - talk about consistence... And even if she was so damn sure Carley was the one who traded food with the bandits, that was no reason to execute her on the spot - it was not a urgent situation, and certainly not a possible matter of life and death like in Kenny's situation.
Kenny did what he firmly believed would save them from an imminent deadly peril, with not much time to think about it / Lilly executed someone in cold blood.
(And might I remind you that Larry was the one who wanted to kill a small child while he was still breathing and conscious , and would have done it if nobody prevented him. If you had asked Larry what he would have done about a tall, big, muscled adult that felt unconscious, not breathing, and not a heartbeat, he would have said that the guy needed to be terminated on the spot. So one might say Larry was victim of his own philosophy)
As much as I disagree with his actions, Kenny murdered Larry to protect both his family and the group in the meat locker, at least in his eyes. There was some truth to his argument. We've all seen how fast a Walker can move. Remember earlier in the episode, with whichever person you brought back? They turned almost immediately and jumped up to grab Katjaa before anyone could react. Had that happened with Larry, the group would have been slaughtered. Not only was Larry huge, but they were trapped and weaponless. Clem's just a little girl, and Lilly would be in no condition to help. Kenny had no luck punching Larry even when he was human, and we saw how Lee fared against Andy without his group's help. It's unlikely they could stop Larry from leaping up and biting anyone, let alone manage to restrain him long enough for someone else to drop the salt lick, and there's no one to even do that. Lilly would likely not, assuming she could even lift it, given how much trouble Kenny had. Also, if the group in the locker died, that left Katjaa and Duck at the mercy of the St. John family, who no longer had their pick of "meat". Would you blame him as much if it were Clementine who'd be left alone in that house, at the mercy of cannibals who had no problem putting a gun to her head?
I would pick Lilly. Lilly gave Clementine hair thingys to keep that hair short and neat.
You're absolutely right, and it takes a huge lot of pro-Lilly-bias to deny this.
This is exactly why I think the decision would be terribly difficult for Clem (or us as Clem if you will) to make. On both hands you have people who are willing to make morally questionable decisions in order to protect others. Lily killed because she didn't want someone who was willing to kill another member of the group because we couldn't trust them (in her eyes, stealing the medical supplies was as good as killing us). Kenny killed Larry because he thought he might turn and kill us all as well. In both situations, you have someone willing to kill other survivors in order to protect the others.
Kenny would be the more popular choice obviously because of his eventual redemption (even if he did nearly leave you to die twice). Because of how we last saw him, forgiving Ben for causing the death of his family. The thing is, we never had the opportunity to give Lily that chance because she is either left behind or steals the RV to avoid punishment. She wanted to kill whoever was stealing the supplies for the same reason that eventually led to the actions that caused Kenny to want to Ben dead, she just jumped the gun a little out of her paranoia and grief. If Lily were given her shot at redemption as well, the story would likely have turned out completely differently.
If they both were to return as lone survivors of lost families, surviving alone since their parting of ways (it is strange how by the end they have such parallel situations), who could you trust?
If you try to save Larry, he actually takes a breath right before the block smashes his skull.
If you try to save Larry, he actually takes a breath right before the block smashes his skull. In the same sense that Carly wasn't the one responsible for the supplies getting stolen, they both killed a member of the group in a moment of panic that wasn't actually a threat. Yes, Larry was a dick, but so was Lee to anyone he thought might be a threat to Clementine and so was Kenny to anyone he thought might be a threat to Duck. Unfortunately, Larry saw Lee as a threat to Lily so Lee caught a lot of shit from him. I like Kenny, and I don't dislike Lily's character (although her killing Carly hurt more than Kenny killing Larry for sure), but I think there's a lot more to the decision of which one should be saved if it came down to a decision like that. Kenny is a good father-figure and I'm certain he'd be willing to do whatever was necessary in order to protect Clem by the end of season 1. Lily on the other hand has military training and is equally able to protect Clementine.
That's a new one.
Here is a video of Larry's death in this case.
Please tell me the exact second he's supposed to take that breath, because I don't see that.
All I see is his jaw slightly moving under the effect of the pushes as you do the heart massage (everytime we push it moves a bit).
No, his jaw is moving rythmically under the effect of the heart's massage pushes.
Theft is not quite the same as killing, and the situation was not such that immediate action needed to be taken. Lilly unnecessarily escalated the situation, waving her gun around and accusing everyone she could. I'm surprised she didn't accuse Kenny, too. Even if she thought someone was guilty, she had no proof and no right to kill them. She refused to listen to reason, and as a result, an innocent person wound up dead.
Duhhhhh Kenny, I was team Kenny from the beginning, I've done 2 play throughs and in each one I couldn't force myself to side against him, to stare at his sad mustached face. ( lol don't judge). Something did happen whare as I skipped an episode witch resaulted in lee giving Larry CPR,
And I see why so many people hate on him. But Kenny was so protective of duck and katjetta, I just know for a fact that Kenny would let nothing happen to Clem, he may even look at it as a second choice. And for Lilly she was a paranoid little witch
This player didn't get enough pushes in. Here's one where he breathes. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPR3qrMrqVs
Also the wiki link, see trivia section http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Starved_For_Help
It's not the same thing at all. In Kenny's case, there was an actual danger. We don't know if the other person replying is right about it just being and effect, and it could also have been him reanimating, since we know zombies breathe. I've already gone into detail above why the situation was dangerous and what Kenny was thinking.
I would side with a walker before I ever sided with kenny. He is a horrible selfish scumbag who stabs people in the back the moment somebody disagrees with him about anything. Lilly actually gave a $#!% about the group and knows how to survive. Kenny only cares about himself and is a fool. But Kenny should remain dead anyway. In my and alot of other peoples opinion, if TT tries to change his story by bringing him back, it will be their biggest FAIL to date. His story is perfect the way it is.
Coca always Coca
Lilly, obviously! She is such a complex character, I just love to hate her.
Yes, a selfish person who in the end, saved a pregnant woman and decides to remain with a teenager to put him out of his misery. Yeah, that sounds like a evil person right? People can change too you know. And what other people's opinions? I never heard many people saying that Kenny being alive would be the biggest fail.
Rude. He/she is entitled to their own opinion. No need to be so butthurt just because people with a BRAIN hate Kenny.
Rude? I'm sorry but you are acting rude here. I was just stating my opinion about how Kenny is not Satan's incarnate here. I never insulted you so you should not do the same.
Agreed, you are the only person being extremely rude here as always, Alexia. Knock it the hell off.
This would be a very easy choice for a lot of people though. Even Clementine witnessed what Lilly did to Carley/Doug, and how my Lee left her on the side of the road. She would NOT choose Lilly over Kenny I guarantee you.
Blahblahblahblah.
Poor Kenny fans, always so defensive! I hope the sight of his walking corpse in Season Two will shut you up for once and for all :P
I'm not a Kenny fan. You should really be careful before you start talking about people you don't even know.
Kenny turning his back on Lee = it all depends on your playthrough, if you're loyal to him he's loyal to you and will follow you into hell
Lilly turning her back on Lee = happens even if you were always loyal to her, bitch steals the RV no matter what and abandons you and Clem even if you wanted to follow her into hell
...Clementine will remember this
Lilly gave her the hair thingies! I think that makes up for what she did, doesn't it?
She also asks Lee to come with her.
If you believe that makes up for a horrible murder, alright.
All this before promptly stealing their only means of transport, and abandoning Clem and everyone else for dead.
Okay, thank you for the link to the video.
Then I guess Kenny acted too soon and should have held the salt block above Larry's head in case Larry turned, and should have dropped it only if Larry turned.
(...Still it doesn't change the difference of nature between Kenny's action and Lilly killing Carley - Kenny still believed Larry was already dead and didn't intend to murder him but rather to prevent him from turning, while Lilly decided to murder Carley.)
Yes, aaaand if Lee agrees, she still abandons him !
Was your post an attempt at being humoristic, or were you serious ?
I was serious! Lilly is my idol and I hope to be like her when I grow up.
0_0
Hair thingies =/= murder.
That's basic human morality 101.
Then why did you say a few posts above that you loved to hate her ?
Well I obviously have a split personality disorder, DUH.
Seriously though, have you ever heard of this little thing called sarcasm?
That would explain a lot.
@Alexia
More like