There are real world corollaries to what the Stranger has done with Clementine, minus the zombies. I would guarantee you that in most of them there is a romantic/sexual component, no matter what the abductor claims to be his motivations. (They even often see themselves as a father figure or a "savior" for their captives.) When the group arrived in that house in Savannah and Christa started talking to Clementine about how the stranger didn't want to help her find her parents, but only wanted--and was cut off, what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at? When the writers had Lee ask Clementine--with no visible bruises--if the stranger had hurt her, don't you think that Lee and the writers were implying things beyond simple black eyes?
I'm not saying that anything like that happening in the short time (less than a day?) between when Clem went missing and Lee found her. I'm saying it's silly to assume that the Stranger's view of Clementine was completely pure or that someone has a "dirty imagination" by questioning the Stranger's intent, especially when the writers themselves were clearly throwing hints in that direction, starting right off the bat with the stranger's first skeevy transmission at the end of ep 3.
delusional psycho =/= pedophile
Clem was meant to be a replacement goldfish for his children, not his wife. And he still seems pretty attached to the, ahem, "old bag."
Feel free to think that the Stranger is a rapist if it makes you feel better, but don't call me silly if a say that person has a dirty imagination if he says that: "Rape doesn't leave any marks on the face." and posts a picture of a man with a lewd smile.
There are real world corollaries to what the Stranger has done with Clementine, minus the zombies. I would guarantee you that in most of them… more there is a romantic/sexual component, no matter what the abductor claims to be his motivations. (They even often see themselves as a father figure or a "savior" for their captives.) When the group arrived in that house in Savannah and Christa started talking to Clementine about how the stranger didn't want to help her find her parents, but only wanted--and was cut off, what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at? When the writers had Lee ask Clementine--with no visible bruises--if the stranger had hurt her, don't you think that Lee and the writers were implying things beyond simple black eyes?
I'm not saying that anything like that happening in the short time (less than a day?) between when Clem went missing and Lee found her. I'm saying it's silly to assume that the Stranger's vi… [view original content]
Sir, you have a dirty imagination. While rapes do happen in the Walking Dead universe, there's nothing in the situation which would indicate that Clem was raped. The Stranger seems to have treated her relatively well.
delusional psycho =/= pedophile
Clem was meant to be a replacement goldfish for his children, not his wife. And he still seems pretty attached to the, ahem, "old bag."
Well it went hand in hand you see, the thread is talking about clem and then the rape thing came up again, no idea why people are so persisten… moret on that scenario.
But you made the joke with the mexican creeper guy, so you can see why people read it as you having a dig at a child being raped.
This is why you have to be careful on what you post in a thread that is about something else, people will put 2 and 2 together and get hatred on you.
what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at?
The insinuation was there, sure, but that was back when we knew nothing about him. All you knew was that he was an older guy talking to a little girl and trying to convince her to meet him somewhere and so your mind naturally jumps to the whole pedophile thing. Lee also asked Clem if Chuck's candy had a "funny aftertaste." Doesn't suggest anything about Chuck, only about Lee's suspicions at the time.
After talking to the Stranger and hearing his story, I don't see him having any sexual intentions towards Clem. He may have been off his rocker but deep down, he's just a father trying to get his children back. Assuming he didn't have any pedophilic urges before everything happened to him, I see no reason to believe that he would just randomly develop them after losing his family.
There are real world corollaries to what the Stranger has done with Clementine, minus the zombies. I would guarantee you that in most of them… more there is a romantic/sexual component, no matter what the abductor claims to be his motivations. (They even often see themselves as a father figure or a "savior" for their captives.) When the group arrived in that house in Savannah and Christa started talking to Clementine about how the stranger didn't want to help her find her parents, but only wanted--and was cut off, what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at? When the writers had Lee ask Clementine--with no visible bruises--if the stranger had hurt her, don't you think that Lee and the writers were implying things beyond simple black eyes?
I'm not saying that anything like that happening in the short time (less than a day?) between when Clem went missing and Lee found her. I'm saying it's silly to assume that the Stranger's vi… [view original content]
No, he wasn't "just a father trying to get his children back." That might be what he wanted to project and what even he has convinced himself is the truth, but you could also ask him about his wife in the bag and he'd tell you that he and her have a great loving relationship; meaning his version of things does not match reality.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has all the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work. It's not like I'm talking about someone with random emotional issues and ascribing unfair inferences. I'm talking about the specific character in this game and what we know about him and the actions he's already taken.
Did he have some kind of latent issues before the apocalypse? I don't think that's a leap. Think of all the characters we met throughout the game, characters who have also lost everything. How many of them turned into the kind of person we saw in the stranger?
The point about Chuck doesn't hold up in this case, because Lee asked Clem if the stranger hurt her AFTER he'd learned everything about him that you and I did. Whereas getting to know Chuck made us feel better about him, listening to the stranger and knowing how he's behaved--despite his claims of being altruistic--should have sent up every red flag in the world.
"Assuming he didn't have any pedophilic urges before everything happened to him, I see no reason to believe that he would just randomly develop them after losing his family."
At the end of the game, this is a guy who clearly cannot form normal relationships. He might've before, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, but he sure can't now. (I can't even see him WANTING to hook up with a group; he seems to have worked alone for months; and in finally getting Clem, he got all he needed in terms of companionship.) Add to that the circumstances of being holed up together with this girl he's abducted and there is a very good chance things would go in "that direction."
I've expressed doubts about his personality before all the zombie stuff, but even if we give him that benefit of the doubt, obviously changed circumstances and opportunity alter people's behavior. It would be silly to say something like, "I don't believe sexual assault in prison happens. Just so long as the prisoners had girlfriends before and never sexually assaulted men back in the days when they were free, then surely their behavior and urges would express themselves in exactly the same way when faced with a lifetime behind bars." Another analogy: "I highly doubt that Rugby team whose plane crashed in the Andes ever resorted to cannibalism. They never ate people before the plane crash, so I see no reason to believe they'd just randomly start after the plane crash."
what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at?
The insinuation was there, sure, but that was back when we knew nothin… moreg about him. All you knew was that he was an older guy talking to a little girl and trying to convince her to meet him somewhere and so your mind naturally jumps to the whole pedophile thing. Lee also asked Clem if Chuck's candy had a "funny aftertaste." Doesn't suggest anything about Chuck, only about Lee's suspicions at the time.
After talking to the Stranger and hearing his story, I don't see him having any sexual intentions towards Clem. He may have been off his rocker but deep down, he's just a father trying to get his children back. Assuming he didn't have any pedophilic urges before everything happened to him, I see no reason to believe that he would just randomly develop them after losing his family.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has all the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work.
I'm not saying he has selfless intentions, I'm saying he has non-sexual intentions. To me, his case seems to be most similar to those in which women who've had a miscarriage or lost a child decide to kidnap someone else's child to raise as their own. They also usually spend a lot of time stalking the child they plan to abduct but there's nothing sexual about it.
The point about Chuck doesn't hold up in this case, because Lee asked Clem if the stranger hurt her AFTER he'd learned everything about him that you and I did.
Because regardless of whether he was a pedophile or not, the guy was crazy and dangerous. Lee also asked Clem if the St. Johns hurt her after he woke up in the meat locker. That's just what you ask someone you care about if they've been around a dangerous person or situation. It doesn't mean that he thought there was anything sexual going on.
I've expressed doubts about his personality before all the zombie stuff, but even if we give him that benefit of the doubt, obviously changed circumstances and opportunity alter people's behavior. It would be silly to say something like, "I don't believe sexual assault in prison happens. Just so long as the prisoners had girlfriends before and never sexually assaulted men back in the days when they were free, then surely their behavior and urges would express themselves in exactly the same way when faced with a lifetime behind bars." Another analogy: "I highly doubt that Rugby team whose plane crashed in the Andes ever resorted to cannibalism. They never ate people before the plane crash, so I see no reason to believe they'd just randomly start after the plane crash."
You plane crash case is a poor example as resorting to cannibalism in that case was motivated by survival, whereas becoming a pedophile would not be. But your prison example is a valid point. However, the vast majority of prisoners don't commit prison rape and have no desire to do so, especially non-violent offenders. So it's not as though being sentenced to prison is a good predictor of your inclination to commit prison rape, any more than traumatically losing your family is a predictor of pedophilia.
From what I've read pedophilia is thought to be triggered by some kind of genetic abnormality or sexual trauma, particularly childhood sexual trauma. We have no evidence of either of those in this case so it makes little sense to claim that he was probably a pedophile. I'm not ruling it out, but from what I can tell about his psychology, he doesn't seem to have that sort of inclination.
No, he wasn't "just a father trying to get his children back." That might be what he wanted to project and what even he has convinced himself … moreis the truth, but you could also ask him about his wife in the bag and he'd tell you that he and her have a great loving relationship; meaning his version of things does not match reality.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has all the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work. It's not like I'm talking about someone with random emotional issues and ascribing unfair inferences. I'm talking about the specific character in this game and what we know about him and the actions he's already taken.
Did he have some kind of latent issues before the apocalypse? I don't think that's a leap. Think of all the characters we met throughout the game, characters who have… [view original content]
I would be genuinely curious to know if any psychiatrists and studiers of human behavior had ever played this game. If we asked them to pretend the story was real and ask them to extrapolate what kind of relationship Clem and the Stranger would have had, had Lee not eventually rescued her, I would be shocked if any of them dismissed out of hand the idea that the stranger did/would harbor romantic/sexual feelings towards her.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has al… morel the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work.
I'm not saying he has selfless intentions, I'm saying he has non-sexual intentions. To me, his case seems to be most similar to those in which women who've had a miscarriage or lost a child decide to kidnap someone else's child to raise as their own. They also usually spend a lot of time stalking the child they plan to abduct but there's nothing sexual about it.
The point about Chuck doesn't hold up in this case, because Lee asked Clem if the stranger hurt her AFTER he'd learned everything about him that you and I did.
Because regardless of whether he was a pedophile or not, the guy was crazy and dangerous. Lee also asked Clem if the St. Johns hurt her after he woke up in the meat locker. That… [view original content]
Or maybe they would actually analyze what the Stranger's motivations were, instead of blindly spreading pedophile panic.
I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester.
I would be genuinely curious to know if any psychiatrists and studiers of human behavior had ever played this game. If we asked them to prete… morend the story was real and ask them to extrapolate what kind of relationship Clem and the Stranger would have had, had Lee not eventually rescued her, I would be shocked if any of them dismissed out of hand the idea that the stranger did/would harbor romantic/sexual feelings towards her.
"I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester."
I'm not sure I follow this. The game writers clearly talked about it, because they laid down some implications that the other characters were at least thinking about it. The specter of this is already part of the story, it's not like it's being made up from whole cloth. I'm not saying that suspicion from the other characters means it's true, but the game makers threw it out there on the table, making it a valid point of discussion. It's not like the stranger is a real person and we're risking besmirching his public image.
Or maybe they would actually analyze what the Stranger's motivations were, instead of blindly spreading pedophile panic.
I don't see any po… moreint in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester.
Or maybe they would actually analyze what the Stranger's motivations were, instead of blindly spreading pedophile panic.
I don't see any po… moreint in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester.
You guys can say what you think (of course, thats the point of this post) but I just wanna make it clear, I dont think anything about him raping her, I was just curious
"I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was c… morehild molester."
I'm not sure I follow this. The game writers clearly talked about it, because they laid down some implications that the other characters were at least thinking about it. The specter of this is already part of the story, it's not like it's being made up from whole cloth. I'm not saying that suspicion from the other characters means it's true, but the game makers threw it out there on the table, making it a valid point of discussion. It's not like the stranger is a real person and we're risking besmirching his public image.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has al… morel the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work.
I'm not saying he has selfless intentions, I'm saying he has non-sexual intentions. To me, his case seems to be most similar to those in which women who've had a miscarriage or lost a child decide to kidnap someone else's child to raise as their own. They also usually spend a lot of time stalking the child they plan to abduct but there's nothing sexual about it.
The point about Chuck doesn't hold up in this case, because Lee asked Clem if the stranger hurt her AFTER he'd learned everything about him that you and I did.
Because regardless of whether he was a pedophile or not, the guy was crazy and dangerous. Lee also asked Clem if the St. Johns hurt her after he woke up in the meat locker. That… [view original content]
You know what is somewhat ironic here? This kind of conversation would likely not happen on any other game but this one, I guess we are all way over protective of Clem.
Naturally people are suspicious. Several characters are suspicious even about what Lee's motives are, but unlike in the case of Danielle (girl whose picture we find from the tent in Episode 2), there was no hint that Clem was actually victim of sexual violence.
When there's threads with topics like: "Should Clem be raped in Season 2?" you can understand if I'm growing weary of constant theories how someone wants to molest Clem, when there's no real evidence to support the theory that the Stranger had sexual motives. Sure he was a sick person, but being insane doesn't automatically mean that one is also a pedophile.
"I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was c… morehild molester."
I'm not sure I follow this. The game writers clearly talked about it, because they laid down some implications that the other characters were at least thinking about it. The specter of this is already part of the story, it's not like it's being made up from whole cloth. I'm not saying that suspicion from the other characters means it's true, but the game makers threw it out there on the table, making it a valid point of discussion. It's not like the stranger is a real person and we're risking besmirching his public image.
my apologies, i shouldnt have jumped to conclusions. its just commonplace for me to find racial banter in comment lists, but i forgot that this is faaar from youtube.
Generally people don't like to think child rape, unless there's real evidence that such atrocities did happen to someone. Man is sick in the head, but it doesn't mean that he is a pedophile.
Generally people don't like to think child rape, unless there's real evidence that such atrocities did happen to someone. Man is sick in the head, but it doesn't mean that he is a pedophile.
It's all just an idle speculation. There's nothing which really supports the theory that the Stranger is a pedophile. If he was, then it would have been expressed in a clear manner, just like Carl was almost raped in both the comics and the TV-show and we had strong hints in S1E2 of the game that Danielle was raped.
This isn't like Ellie in The Last of Us, where she was "almost" raped. They made it really obvious. They don't hint anything AT ALL that Clem was raped, and I have a feeling Telltale wouldn't want to go down that path, they'd get alot of flack for it...
Comments
Nah, I'm not saying it's you. I'm just saying that there's one guy doing it. Don't know who it is though.
There are real world corollaries to what the Stranger has done with Clementine, minus the zombies. I would guarantee you that in most of them there is a romantic/sexual component, no matter what the abductor claims to be his motivations. (They even often see themselves as a father figure or a "savior" for their captives.) When the group arrived in that house in Savannah and Christa started talking to Clementine about how the stranger didn't want to help her find her parents, but only wanted--and was cut off, what do you think Christa and the game writers were getting at? When the writers had Lee ask Clementine--with no visible bruises--if the stranger had hurt her, don't you think that Lee and the writers were implying things beyond simple black eyes?
I'm not saying that anything like that happening in the short time (less than a day?) between when Clem went missing and Lee found her. I'm saying it's silly to assume that the Stranger's view of Clementine was completely pure or that someone has a "dirty imagination" by questioning the Stranger's intent, especially when the writers themselves were clearly throwing hints in that direction, starting right off the bat with the stranger's first skeevy transmission at the end of ep 3.
Feel free to think that the Stranger is a rapist if it makes you feel better, but don't call me silly if a say that person has a dirty imagination if he says that: "Rape doesn't leave any marks on the face." and posts a picture of a man with a lewd smile.
she was rape and didnt want to tell lee
Hahahahahahahaha "old bag"
I've been laughing at that for like 10 minutes!
Everyone love Samara
!
He is tan has a moustache and is a little on the heavy side, is that really what makes him a mexican? typical racial profiling idiot
The insinuation was there, sure, but that was back when we knew nothing about him. All you knew was that he was an older guy talking to a little girl and trying to convince her to meet him somewhere and so your mind naturally jumps to the whole pedophile thing. Lee also asked Clem if Chuck's candy had a "funny aftertaste." Doesn't suggest anything about Chuck, only about Lee's suspicions at the time.
After talking to the Stranger and hearing his story, I don't see him having any sexual intentions towards Clem. He may have been off his rocker but deep down, he's just a father trying to get his children back. Assuming he didn't have any pedophilic urges before everything happened to him, I see no reason to believe that he would just randomly develop them after losing his family.
Seriously if you are going to start calling people racist at least get your facts straight first.
The "meme" is called the Mexican Creeper.
No, he wasn't "just a father trying to get his children back." That might be what he wanted to project and what even he has convinced himself is the truth, but you could also ask him about his wife in the bag and he'd tell you that he and her have a great loving relationship; meaning his version of things does not match reality.
He is an adult that spent MONTHS fixated on a young girl, stalking her and eventually successfully abducting her. He can vocally say he has all the most selfless intentions in the world; but his actions reveal different things at work. It's not like I'm talking about someone with random emotional issues and ascribing unfair inferences. I'm talking about the specific character in this game and what we know about him and the actions he's already taken.
Did he have some kind of latent issues before the apocalypse? I don't think that's a leap. Think of all the characters we met throughout the game, characters who have also lost everything. How many of them turned into the kind of person we saw in the stranger?
The point about Chuck doesn't hold up in this case, because Lee asked Clem if the stranger hurt her AFTER he'd learned everything about him that you and I did. Whereas getting to know Chuck made us feel better about him, listening to the stranger and knowing how he's behaved--despite his claims of being altruistic--should have sent up every red flag in the world.
"Assuming he didn't have any pedophilic urges before everything happened to him, I see no reason to believe that he would just randomly develop them after losing his family."
At the end of the game, this is a guy who clearly cannot form normal relationships. He might've before, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, but he sure can't now. (I can't even see him WANTING to hook up with a group; he seems to have worked alone for months; and in finally getting Clem, he got all he needed in terms of companionship.) Add to that the circumstances of being holed up together with this girl he's abducted and there is a very good chance things would go in "that direction."
I've expressed doubts about his personality before all the zombie stuff, but even if we give him that benefit of the doubt, obviously changed circumstances and opportunity alter people's behavior. It would be silly to say something like, "I don't believe sexual assault in prison happens. Just so long as the prisoners had girlfriends before and never sexually assaulted men back in the days when they were free, then surely their behavior and urges would express themselves in exactly the same way when faced with a lifetime behind bars." Another analogy: "I highly doubt that Rugby team whose plane crashed in the Andes ever resorted to cannibalism. They never ate people before the plane crash, so I see no reason to believe they'd just randomly start after the plane crash."
I'm not saying he has selfless intentions, I'm saying he has non-sexual intentions. To me, his case seems to be most similar to those in which women who've had a miscarriage or lost a child decide to kidnap someone else's child to raise as their own. They also usually spend a lot of time stalking the child they plan to abduct but there's nothing sexual about it.
Because regardless of whether he was a pedophile or not, the guy was crazy and dangerous. Lee also asked Clem if the St. Johns hurt her after he woke up in the meat locker. That's just what you ask someone you care about if they've been around a dangerous person or situation. It doesn't mean that he thought there was anything sexual going on.
You plane crash case is a poor example as resorting to cannibalism in that case was motivated by survival, whereas becoming a pedophile would not be. But your prison example is a valid point. However, the vast majority of prisoners don't commit prison rape and have no desire to do so, especially non-violent offenders. So it's not as though being sentenced to prison is a good predictor of your inclination to commit prison rape, any more than traumatically losing your family is a predictor of pedophilia.
From what I've read pedophilia is thought to be triggered by some kind of genetic abnormality or sexual trauma, particularly childhood sexual trauma. We have no evidence of either of those in this case so it makes little sense to claim that he was probably a pedophile. I'm not ruling it out, but from what I can tell about his psychology, he doesn't seem to have that sort of inclination.
Joking or not, rape isn't really a matter to be made light of.
I would be genuinely curious to know if any psychiatrists and studiers of human behavior had ever played this game. If we asked them to pretend the story was real and ask them to extrapolate what kind of relationship Clem and the Stranger would have had, had Lee not eventually rescued her, I would be shocked if any of them dismissed out of hand the idea that the stranger did/would harbor romantic/sexual feelings towards her.
Or maybe they would actually analyze what the Stranger's motivations were, instead of blindly spreading pedophile panic.
I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester.
"I don't see any point in talking about child sexual abuse unless there's actual hard evidence to support the argument that the Stranger was child molester."
I'm not sure I follow this. The game writers clearly talked about it, because they laid down some implications that the other characters were at least thinking about it. The specter of this is already part of the story, it's not like it's being made up from whole cloth. I'm not saying that suspicion from the other characters means it's true, but the game makers threw it out there on the table, making it a valid point of discussion. It's not like the stranger is a real person and we're risking besmirching his public image.
You obviously don't know many Freudians...;)
You guys can say what you think (of course, thats the point of this post) but I just wanna make it clear, I dont think anything about him raping her, I was just curious
*shrug
People joke about a lot of awful things. Did you laugh at Shaun of the Dead? What happens in that movie is tragic, but fuckin hell, it's pretty funny.
Ok, how the fuck does domewing, clearly the smartest and most well spoken person on this website, get a thumbs down?
No! You fool! Now you've doomed us both to a flurry of 'ironic' downvotes!
...I appreciate it though.
I was just speaking my thoughts.
Also, I already get hundreds of non-ironic troll downvotes, so I'm already fucked.
You know what is somewhat ironic here? This kind of conversation would likely not happen on any other game but this one, I guess we are all way over protective of Clem.
could be
0.0
Naturally people are suspicious. Several characters are suspicious even about what Lee's motives are, but unlike in the case of Danielle (girl whose picture we find from the tent in Episode 2), there was no hint that Clem was actually victim of sexual violence.
When there's threads with topics like: "Should Clem be raped in Season 2?" you can understand if I'm growing weary of constant theories how someone wants to molest Clem, when there's no real evidence to support the theory that the Stranger had sexual motives. Sure he was a sick person, but being insane doesn't automatically mean that one is also a pedophile.
I'm kinda curious about the room in the hotel, the one where we couldn't go. What was inside it ? And why Clementine didn't want us to enter ?
i have heard things about that, and perhaps maybe Omid once went in the hotel, found evrything (while looking for lee) and in season 2 will tell us
my apologies, i shouldnt have jumped to conclusions. its just commonplace for me to find racial banter in comment lists, but i forgot that this is faaar from youtube.
why do people find it hard t believe he could have sexual did something to clem, the man is sick in the head
Generally people don't like to think child rape, unless there's real evidence that such atrocities did happen to someone. Man is sick in the head, but it doesn't mean that he is a pedophile.