You're right about one thing. I cant figure you out. I really do not get where you are coming from. And I think you got my point, you're just being obtuse.
When was it proven that it wasn't a walker bite? After she stole some supplies and killed a walker in self defense? Yes, that is certainly some darn good and unchallengeable proof right there. rofl
Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?
Who in their right mind would would beg a doctor to tend to her wound if she is going to die hours later anyway?
Anybody who is bitten wants to be killed out of mercy, better to be just dead than the walking dead.
After she stole some supplies and killed a walker in self defense? Yes, that is certainly some darn good and unchallengeable proof right there… more.
Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?
Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?
Who in their right… more mind would would beg a doctor to tend to her wound if she is going to die hours later anyway?
Anybody who is bitten wants to be killed out of mercy, better to be just dead than the walking dead.
I disagree. You're confusing physical inaction with lack of motivation or wishes. Their goal (as impossible as it was) was to survive until things got better. (That was their shared goal, but they were also fiercely motivated by personal ones; goals we could relate to.) And while we know now that that was impossible, they were still striving for something, for things to change and get better.
There was real energy in their interaction and in their (baseless) hope that things would change. Lee (and the audience through him) always very strongly felt a need to protect Clementine. That was his motivation. (By making Lee and Clem have real fears and wishes, it made us have them as well.) Clementine always had a pressing need to find her parents. Kenny had a pressing need to protect his family. These weren't just some blasé things that we're supposed to infer. There was actual emotion there.
Waiting was their "plan" in season one until hopefully something different happened (and then they were on the road to Savannah; they never stopped having a motivation or goal). It WAS an action in itself, because (at least in their minds) it was helping them work toward a goal. When the characters have desires, then we can have them as well. On the other hand, the group in season two seem to be content with things just remaining how they are. Just content to bitch about their hen-pecked husbands and "deal" with outsiders like they always do. Since they aren't invested in much, I'm not either. I know it's hard to make a group of characters care about something a couple years into a zombie apocalypse, but that's why writers get paid. They have to think of some other hope or motivation or goal different than the status quo that we can share with the characters and relate to.
In season two, Lee is gone as the protagonist, so it's up for us to fear for Clementine by ourselves. That's supposed to be one of our main rooting interests. The problem is she seems to be the most capable person in the game. And since we know she can't die (at least for the duration of the season), then that concern is removed. In season one, by Lee constantly worrying for and caring for Clementine, it made us root for him. In Season 2--not only is Clem the most self-sufficient character in the game, her search for Christa seems something she forgets half the time. (It's not like our constant concern that Lee keep Clem safe in season one.) Not only does Clem apparently not seem to care that much about finding Christa, but the audience gets the impression there isn't a real need to find her. We already know that Clem can take care of herself.
It actually might have been a mistake to have the whole incident with the dog biting her to set up the idiot plot where the season two cast accuse her of being bit by a zombie. If the dog hadn't been killed off then--as inconsequential as it may seem--Clem would have someone to care for and be concerned about and fear for. This would make us also be concerned for Clem, because she would be invested in something.
What motivations did the group from season one have? At the end of episode one, that is?
Waiting... that was it. They waited. For the apoca… morelypse to be ended. Kenny wasn't even on the RV-repairing, yet. Ok, Clem wanted to find her parents. But no one else wanted that. Because they were most likely dead, in their opinion.
I think people are comparing the first season with the episode of the new season. Because the human mind cannot differentiate memories correctly (eye witness accounts are way overrated in trials, for example). So you (unwllingly) remember how great the season was, and think that was already the case after episode one.
You are building a straw man with ridiculous assumptions.
I was shocked and upset when Carley was killed in season 1, but that didn't make the writing bad, the writing is excellent. Killing off great characters does not cause bad writing.
Just because a certain character dies in the wrong manner, or people can't say what they want, they think the writing is bad. No, the writing … moreis gutwrenching (in the good way!), rich in detail, and although sometimes my choices don't lead into a whole tree of different endings, I still feel that the world is in my hand, and I'm the one that's building the story.
But.. but... I didn't even write that the writing is terrible, uninspired, bland, been sent down the shitter or anything of the sort (although it's true).
See? That's just annoying now. You're on every thread posting the same one to two lines, without actually making points, apart from the gun thing, which I actually agree with.
The writing wasn't bad but I did feel like some of the lines we're delivered as well as they could have been. Anyone else thought Clementine sounded a little monotonous? I mean I get that she's a bit more matured and less chirpy than before but sometimes, there was just no inflection in her voice at all. I hope she gets a little bit more expressive later on.
"Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?"
This doesn't make sense to me. The entire time Clem was there she kept asking them to clean and take care of the wound. Her doing it herself was just a follow through of that after no one helped her; it didn't prove anything contrary to what Clem was already claiming.. By your reasoning, the group should've known right off that she was telling the truth just because she was vocally asking them to clean the wound. Because who in her right mind would ask for that if they were only going to die hours later?
After she stole some supplies and killed a walker in self defense? Yes, that is certainly some darn good and unchallengeable proof right there… more.
Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?
You said it wasn't proven to the group that it wasn't a walker bite. Going to the effort of breaking out of the shed and sneaking around the house would seem like a rather fruitless endeavour if she was sure she was going to die.
"Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?"
This doesn't make sen… morese to me. The entire time Clem was there she kept asking them to clean and take care of the wound. Her doing it herself was just a follow through of that after no one helped her; it didn't prove anything contrary to what Clem was already claiming.. By your reasoning, the group should've known right off that she was telling the truth just because she was vocally asking them to clean the wound. Because who in her right mind would ask for that if they were only going to die hours later?
But my point is, fixing her own wound was completely consistent with a person who previously was asking THEM to fix it. (They refused, so she did it herself.) If her fixing her own wound "proved" to them that she wasn't bitten by a walker, then her initial request that they fix it for her so she could be on her way should've already proven it to them.
You said it wasn't proven to the group that it wasn't a walker bite. Going to the effort of breaking out of the shed and sneaking around the house would seem like a rather fruitless endeavour if she was sure she was going to die.
Ok, I see the point in "waiting was the plan" because, then they didn't know that it wouldn't work. Now two years later, people don't have "waiting" as a plan anymore but just "doing nothing" as the situation that it is.
I agree on the point the there's no urgency in finding Christa. That feels wrong, she was our caretaker for the last one and a half years.
I disagree, that we need a motivation in the first episode. In that sense, that these people (who are survivors) do anything apart from surviving. And the plot in episode one is Clem "just surviving" and getting to know (very vaguely, but I'm certain that's the point of this season) this group.
There will be things that motivate people of the group to do something. Rebecca will have some sort of motivation because of the guy who asked for her (get away from him/get to him). Carlos has the motivation of protecting his daughter (as you mentioned). Nick has some issues with Pete, there can something arising there. The whole group will have some sort of motivation to do anything about Carver or maybe a new group thats responsible for the carnage at the river (we don't actually know it was Carver)
So while I agree, that the motivations aren't as clear for now (or even existing at all at that point) I'm certain that the following episodes will provide those and make the season as a whole meaningful.
I disagree. You're confusing physical inaction with lack of motivation or wishes. Their goal (as impossible as it was) was to survive until … morethings got better. (That was their shared goal, but they were also fiercely motivated by personal ones; goals we could relate to.) And while we know now that that was impossible, they were still striving for something, for things to change and get better.
There was real energy in their interaction and in their (baseless) hope that things would change. Lee (and the audience through him) always very strongly felt a need to protect Clementine. That was his motivation. (By making Lee and Clem have real fears and wishes, it made us have them as well.) Clementine always had a pressing need to find her parents. Kenny had a pressing need to protect his family. These weren't just some blasé things that we're supposed to infer. There was actual emotion there.
Waiting was their "plan" in season one unti… [view original content]
The writing wasn't bad but I did feel like some of the lines we're delivered as well as they could have been. Anyone else thought Clementine s… moreounded a little monotonous? I mean I get that she's a bit more matured and less chirpy than before but sometimes, there was just no inflection in her voice at all. I hope she gets a little bit more expressive later on.
It was only for a few small exchanges, not during the major scenes. Like when Pete told her that story about Nick, she uses the same tone for "What a baby" as she does for "Aww. That's sad" despite the two conveying entirely different sentiments. Just little things like that bothered me. For the most part though, the performance was great.
If you've played the Wolf Among Us, the new Clem voice is a lot more like her "Beauty" voice than her "TJ" voice, which was similar to her Season 1 Clementine voice. It's a lot more breathy and stifled and sounds a bit more flat than her original voice.
Yes, sorry about that.
I understand where you're coming from, and rather annoyingly I can't make a counter point without partially corroding my initial point. Honestly, I do agree with your other posts though, this whole premise was iffy at best.
You're confusing me with the other guy.
But my point is, fixing her own wound was completely consistent with a person who previously was as… moreking THEM to fix it. (They refused, so she did it herself.) If her fixing her own wound "proved" to them that she wasn't bitten by a walker, then her initial request that they fix it for her so she could be on her way should've already proven it to them.
Yes, sorry about that.
I understand where you're coming from, and rather annoyingly I can't make a counter point without partially corroding my initial point. Honestly, I do agree with your other posts though, this whole premise was iffy at best.
DomeWing, I thought the same thing at times. I'm guessing it's a bit of a handicap for the voice actress to really emote in the most natural way when she's not using her natural voice and preoccupied with coming off the correct age. Maybe it was easier to convey emotion when doing a higher-pitched Clementine than doing a sort of "halfway" voice.
The writing wasn't bad but I did feel like some of the lines we're delivered as well as they could have been. Anyone else thought Clementine s… moreounded a little monotonous? I mean I get that she's a bit more matured and less chirpy than before but sometimes, there was just no inflection in her voice at all. I hope she gets a little bit more expressive later on.
Yeah. Seeing Christa without a baby after 18 months caught me off a tad at first, but I quickly just assumed she "mercy-killed" him/her when he/she was born, as he/she had no father to love him/her or take care of him/her (sad, I know ), and I quickly got on with it.
I've found most people who complain about the writing seem to want bland, cookie cutter and predictable plots. Others just don't actually unde… morerstand good writing. Example, people complaining about the 16 month jump and no christa baby news. Well, Its pretty darn obvious that it will be explored later as a recollection of what happened. Like the table conversation with Luke about Lee. The events of what happened will be made knows to the viewer later. Clem already knows what happens. It's good writing you will see.
The writing wasn't bad but I did feel like some of the lines we're delivered as well as they could have been. Anyone else thought Clementine s… moreounded a little monotonous? I mean I get that she's a bit more matured and less chirpy than before but sometimes, there was just no inflection in her voice at all. I hope she gets a little bit more expressive later on.
@dlux_ The fact your saying "stop harassing me" when you've fired over 10 personal attacks on this site in the last 18 hours is sad. I'm curious if you are still here because your trolling or ranting about a game gives you some satisfaction. And you never actually give any real reasons why the game is bad but the writing and omid's death. I mean. Come on. Get over it. Next time you want to debate have a some real back up information other than "the writing sucks rofl rofl rofl"
But.. but... I didn't even write that the writing is terrible, uninspired, bland, been sent down the shitter or anything of the sort (although it's true).
Stop harassing me. hehe
Actually I have received at least 10 personal attacks because people (like you) can't accept my opinion. Don't you feel bad for me? Oh right, I am the guy with the wrong opinion, so I deserve to be flamed and attacked.
Actually, even you have insulted me by calling me a troll, yet here you are preaching to me how bad this kind of behavior is even though you like to attack and flame people yourself. How amusing.
And yes, the writing does suck. It is uninspired and unbelieveable, the complete opposite of the first season. The lead writer is obviously a complete amateur and should be replaced. rofl rofl rofl
@dlux_ The fact your saying "stop harassing me" when you've fired over 10 personal attacks on this site in the last 18 hours is sad. I'm curio… moreus if you are still here because your trolling or ranting about a game gives you some satisfaction. And you never actually give any real reasons why the game is bad but the writing and omid's death. I mean. Come on. Get over it. Next time you want to debate have a some real back up information other than "the writing sucks rofl rofl rofl"
Alot of plots and conflicts have been set up, and it is too early to tell whether or not the characters is as one note as you say.
I am interested in seeing where the story goes:
How will the relationship between Sarah and Clem evolve, now that doctor father wants to keep them apart?
Who is the father of Rebacca's child?
What will be the fallout with the choice at the end where you had to decide between Nick and Pete?
What happened to Christa?
And who is this Carver threat?
"I thought you were dead" is not the only reason why one might have an interested to continue playing.
I know I'm going to get killed for this, but I disagree. I thought Season two lacked a lot of the most basic tenets of engaging storytelling. … more (Or at least storytelling that expects me to care about what happens next to the characters.) Most of the interesting parts seemed entirely dependent on riding on the coattails of our positive memories of season one. ("Ooh, I wonder if it's Kenny that Clem is talking to in the preview!")
Yeah, it's cool that Clem has Arnold-like one-liners and is being manipulative; and that's fun because it contrasts off our memory of her from season one. But it's also a double-edged sword. By making her so capable and lacking vulnerability (and the group irrationally talking to her like she's Bruce Willis), what exactly is our pressing concern as the audience? Is there anything she can't handle better than an adult at this point? They've introduced an entire cast of characters that seem functionally retarded (se… [view original content]
People did the same thing when walking dead season 4 came out, then when episode 3 came out people began to change their thoughts. people just don't understand character development.
Not at all. I am saying that in light of the criticism that Clem didn't get to talk to people in the house. I feel that it wasn't appropriate for her to be talking to people in the house like she's part of the group yet, and that the writing is spot on here.
Not at all. I am saying that in light of the criticism that Clem didn't get to talk to people in the house. I feel that it wasn't appropriate … morefor her to be talking to people in the house like she's part of the group yet, and that the writing is spot on here.
Comments
I don't get why you can't see blatant plot holes resulting from bad writing even when somebody points them out to you. xD
Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?
"Broken record" - irony explosion
Who in their right mind would would beg a doctor to tend to her wound if she is going to die hours later anyway?
Anybody who is bitten wants to be killed out of mercy, better to be just dead than the walking dead.
The writing in season two is terrible and uninspired.
Irrelevant.
I disagree. You're confusing physical inaction with lack of motivation or wishes. Their goal (as impossible as it was) was to survive until things got better. (That was their shared goal, but they were also fiercely motivated by personal ones; goals we could relate to.) And while we know now that that was impossible, they were still striving for something, for things to change and get better.
There was real energy in their interaction and in their (baseless) hope that things would change. Lee (and the audience through him) always very strongly felt a need to protect Clementine. That was his motivation. (By making Lee and Clem have real fears and wishes, it made us have them as well.) Clementine always had a pressing need to find her parents. Kenny had a pressing need to protect his family. These weren't just some blasé things that we're supposed to infer. There was actual emotion there.
Waiting was their "plan" in season one until hopefully something different happened (and then they were on the road to Savannah; they never stopped having a motivation or goal). It WAS an action in itself, because (at least in their minds) it was helping them work toward a goal. When the characters have desires, then we can have them as well. On the other hand, the group in season two seem to be content with things just remaining how they are. Just content to bitch about their hen-pecked husbands and "deal" with outsiders like they always do. Since they aren't invested in much, I'm not either. I know it's hard to make a group of characters care about something a couple years into a zombie apocalypse, but that's why writers get paid. They have to think of some other hope or motivation or goal different than the status quo that we can share with the characters and relate to.
In season two, Lee is gone as the protagonist, so it's up for us to fear for Clementine by ourselves. That's supposed to be one of our main rooting interests. The problem is she seems to be the most capable person in the game. And since we know she can't die (at least for the duration of the season), then that concern is removed. In season one, by Lee constantly worrying for and caring for Clementine, it made us root for him. In Season 2--not only is Clem the most self-sufficient character in the game, her search for Christa seems something she forgets half the time. (It's not like our constant concern that Lee keep Clem safe in season one.) Not only does Clem apparently not seem to care that much about finding Christa, but the audience gets the impression there isn't a real need to find her. We already know that Clem can take care of herself.
It actually might have been a mistake to have the whole incident with the dog biting her to set up the idiot plot where the season two cast accuse her of being bit by a zombie. If the dog hadn't been killed off then--as inconsequential as it may seem--Clem would have someone to care for and be concerned about and fear for. This would make us also be concerned for Clem, because she would be invested in something.
Tissue?
You are building a straw man with ridiculous assumptions.
I was shocked and upset when Carley was killed in season 1, but that didn't make the writing bad, the writing is excellent. Killing off great characters does not cause bad writing.
edit: typo
Who needs shelter if they are dead in 10 hours anyway.
But.. but... I didn't even write that the writing is terrible, uninspired, bland, been sent down the shitter or anything of the sort (although it's true).
Stop harassing me. hehe
Don't backpedal.
The writing in season two is terrible and uninspired.
The writing wasn't bad but I did feel like some of the lines we're delivered as well as they could have been. Anyone else thought Clementine sounded a little monotonous? I mean I get that she's a bit more matured and less chirpy than before but sometimes, there was just no inflection in her voice at all. I hope she gets a little bit more expressive later on.
That's a good point. You're totally right. It is.
Sorry, I didn't realize earlier.
Ok, you have no answer. Thought so.
Answer mine first, without backpedalling.
I already did, check your comprehension skills. Whoever is bitten does not need shelter, they need a bullet shot to the head.
I guess you think they need some nice and cozy shelter to grab some snacks and play board games before they turn or something. rofl.
"Well yes, quite. Who in their right mind would, suture and clean a bite if they were only going to die hours later?"
This doesn't make sense to me. The entire time Clem was there she kept asking them to clean and take care of the wound. Her doing it herself was just a follow through of that after no one helped her; it didn't prove anything contrary to what Clem was already claiming.. By your reasoning, the group should've known right off that she was telling the truth just because she was vocally asking them to clean the wound. Because who in her right mind would ask for that if they were only going to die hours later?
Yes, the writing in season two is terrible and uninspired.
You said it wasn't proven to the group that it wasn't a walker bite. Going to the effort of breaking out of the shed and sneaking around the house would seem like a rather fruitless endeavour if she was sure she was going to die.
You're confusing me with the other guy.
But my point is, fixing her own wound was completely consistent with a person who previously was asking THEM to fix it. (They refused, so she did it herself.) If her fixing her own wound "proved" to them that she wasn't bitten by a walker, then her initial request that they fix it for her so she could be on her way should've already proven it to them.
Ok, I see the point in "waiting was the plan" because, then they didn't know that it wouldn't work. Now two years later, people don't have "waiting" as a plan anymore but just "doing nothing" as the situation that it is.
I agree on the point the there's no urgency in finding Christa. That feels wrong, she was our caretaker for the last one and a half years.
I disagree, that we need a motivation in the first episode. In that sense, that these people (who are survivors) do anything apart from surviving. And the plot in episode one is Clem "just surviving" and getting to know (very vaguely, but I'm certain that's the point of this season) this group.
There will be things that motivate people of the group to do something. Rebecca will have some sort of motivation because of the guy who asked for her (get away from him/get to him). Carlos has the motivation of protecting his daughter (as you mentioned). Nick has some issues with Pete, there can something arising there. The whole group will have some sort of motivation to do anything about Carver or maybe a new group thats responsible for the carnage at the river (we don't actually know it was Carver)
So while I agree, that the motivations aren't as clear for now (or even existing at all at that point) I'm certain that the following episodes will provide those and make the season as a whole meaningful.
Were you playing the same game as I was?
Yes the writing is horrid!
(Tell the troll what they want, then they'll go away)
It was only for a few small exchanges, not during the major scenes. Like when Pete told her that story about Nick, she uses the same tone for "What a baby" as she does for "Aww. That's sad" despite the two conveying entirely different sentiments. Just little things like that bothered me. For the most part though, the performance was great.
If you've played the Wolf Among Us, the new Clem voice is a lot more like her "Beauty" voice than her "TJ" voice, which was similar to her Season 1 Clementine voice. It's a lot more breathy and stifled and sounds a bit more flat than her original voice.
Yes, sorry about that.
I understand where you're coming from, and rather annoyingly I can't make a counter point without partially corroding my initial point. Honestly, I do agree with your other posts though, this whole premise was iffy at best.
Hey, thanks for seeing my point of view and the polite response. Always a rarity in "internet arguments."
DomeWing, I thought the same thing at times. I'm guessing it's a bit of a handicap for the voice actress to really emote in the most natural way when she's not using her natural voice and preoccupied with coming off the correct age. Maybe it was easier to convey emotion when doing a higher-pitched Clementine than doing a sort of "halfway" voice.
Yeah. Seeing Christa without a baby after 18 months caught me off a tad at first, but I quickly just assumed she "mercy-killed" him/her when he/she was born, as he/she had no father to love him/her or take care of him/her (sad, I know
), and I quickly got on with it.
I noticed that too, but I think it's intentional and doesn't have to do with talent of the voice actor (she is extremely talented).
@dlux_ The fact your saying "stop harassing me" when you've fired over 10 personal attacks on this site in the last 18 hours is sad. I'm curious if you are still here because your trolling or ranting about a game gives you some satisfaction. And you never actually give any real reasons why the game is bad but the writing and omid's death. I mean. Come on. Get over it. Next time you want to debate have a some real back up information other than "the writing sucks rofl rofl rofl"
Oh, a backseat mod. Hello there backseat mod.
Actually I have received at least 10 personal attacks because people (like you) can't accept my opinion. Don't you feel bad for me? Oh right, I am the guy with the wrong opinion, so I deserve to be flamed and attacked.
Actually, even you have insulted me by calling me a troll, yet here you are preaching to me how bad this kind of behavior is even though you like to attack and flame people yourself. How amusing.
And yes, the writing does suck. It is uninspired and unbelieveable, the complete opposite of the first season. The lead writer is obviously a complete amateur and should be replaced. rofl rofl rofl
The writing is excellent
Alot of plots and conflicts have been set up, and it is too early to tell whether or not the characters is as one note as you say.
I am interested in seeing where the story goes:
How will the relationship between Sarah and Clem evolve, now that doctor father wants to keep them apart?
Who is the father of Rebacca's child?
What will be the fallout with the choice at the end where you had to decide between Nick and Pete?
What happened to Christa?
And who is this Carver threat?
"I thought you were dead" is not the only reason why one might have an interested to continue playing.
People did the same thing when walking dead season 4 came out, then when episode 3 came out people began to change their thoughts. people just don't understand character development.
I don't know. If I were Clem, and the people were treating me with suspicion and threats for the most part, I would be scarce myself.
Sooo are you saying the writing sucks??? I think the writing is perfect and reminds me of the walking dead seson 4 which will return in Feb
Not at all. I am saying that in light of the criticism that Clem didn't get to talk to people in the house. I feel that it wasn't appropriate for her to be talking to people in the house like she's part of the group yet, and that the writing is spot on here.
True.