Clem's Guilt (Spoilers!)
I thought this was a really interesting aspect of her character that you could touch on during your conversation with Luke. The first episode makes it very clear that Clem knows full well that her actions have indirectly caused a fair number of people around her to die and that it's been eating her up inside this whole time.
If you pick certain dialogue choices, she talks about how she was dumb and couldn't do anything right and ended up getting Lee killed because she got tricked into running away. It's pretty heartbreaking hearing her "confess her sins" like that. The fact that "I killed him" is a dialogue choice regardless of whether or not she actually shot Lee really speaks for itself. And the thing with Omid only adds on to that.
What did you guys think about how Clem's guilt was portrayed in the first episode? Is some of that guilt warranted? And how do you think this is going to be explored later on?
Comments
That conversation at the table was one of the saddest parts of the game. I felt really sorry for Clementine and she obviously feels guilty about it and the fact that she was partly responsible for Omid's death, That's a lot of guilt for a 10 year old to carry on their shoulders but i hope Telltale don't milk it too much by making her unintentionally responsible for too many deaths.
My dialogue choice was the one that she says she feels guilty about it, how she trusted the stranger and it was a stupid thing to do, ended up causing Lee's death. While I don't personally hold her responsible for that (she was just a little kid, tricked by some deranged guy) I felt like she would feel that way so I went for that option.For me it added to her character, accepting the consequences of her actions and hardened by it. While I have every intention of playing her as honest and good as possible, as I did with Lee, I also intent to make sure she will never be used by anyone again in the same way. So yes, to answer your question, I think guilt plays a big role in Clem's personality in this episode. Well, at least I aim to explore it at every chance, and hopefully at some part, she can come to peace with her conscience.
I think the level of guilt she shows in that scene is completely appropriate, although I completely forgive her for actions. The levels of PTSD she displays throughout the episode are handled very well, it even makes a silence play through a good characterization of who she has become.
As i said before Clem got two good men killed, and she knows this. It's sad
Rip Ben, Kenny, Lee, the boat and now omid, in all honesty she screwed up really bad in season 1.
Eh, everyone screwed up pretty bad at one time or another in Season 1. She only really screwed up once in S1 but unfortunately her screw up had a pretty big ripple effect. Given everything else she did, though, I still think she helped the group way more than she hurt it.
I don't blame her for any of the deaths she indirectly caused (except possibly Omid), but I can see why she would blame herself.
So something else I noticed: if you picked the "I killed him" option when talking to Luke about Lee, Clem sounds a bit less guilt-ridden if she actually shot him. Rather than saying that her actions killed Lee, she just says that he died protecting her and that she had to kill him before he turned. Then she looked really pensive and repeated. "I had to." So it seems to me like having her kill Lee allows her to "own up" to her mistake causes her to not be so haunted by having indirectly caused his death.
I thought it was portrayed well, survivor's guilt is a very real thing and I could tell she's feeling it.
I've seen playthroughs now in which people pick the response 'The same thing that happens to everyone' when Luke asks what happened to Lee. I always wish I could tell them before they pick how much richer the other two verbal responses ("I killed him" and "He died trying to get me back", respectively) are. Picking the latter of those when I played the first time actually made me tear up a bit.
It made me like older Clem a lot more to realize she wasn't blind to the fact that a number of people, including her own guardian Lee, have literally died so that she could keep living. And that she feels the appropriate guilt that accompanies that thought.
i think because they really dont understand clem have survivor guilt like eille
Talk at the table with Luke was great writing, but I remember one of the options makes Clem say something along the lines of "I was stupid, and it got someone killed. I get a lot of people around me killed", and you just feel that that could have major repercussions in the next chapter, especially Luke's look afterwards. Also think it is used by TellTale to make us all warm to Luke, which scares me given their track record with likeable friendly characters...
I usually re-play scenes to see what other dialogue choices do, and picked the "I ran away and got him killed" as my "canon" path. It makes a lot of sense for a well-rounded Clementine to have guilt and express it, especially surrounding Lee and Omid.
^^ my reaction. But with much uglier crying.
((
What's does Clem have to say to talk about this? I really wanna know.
Clem got Lee killed, so yes, it's appropriate.
Here was this dude who is the only reason she survived, who always did the right thing for her, who risked himself many times to help this girl he didn't even know. And when it came down to it, and they couldn't look for her parents, he was honest with her - he didn't lie and say "sure, we'll do that", but instead honestly told her that there was no chance to look for her parents. It broke his heart.
And in response, she ran off with some random and got him killed.
Clem is awful. Ben-level awful.
You made him be honest about it, if I remember correctly (sorry if I don't) you can tell her you are going to find her parents right up until she vanishes. Also I don't think Ben-level awful is applicable here for the simple fact of age difference.
I told Clementine that we could try to look for her parents but we might not be able to..
Clem didn't get Lee killed. yes, what she did led him on a path to getting killed, but it was Lee who wasn't paying attention to his surroundings and got bit.
but she caused his reaction which led to him letting his guard down