Accepting Nick's Apology
There's a lot of choices that are overwhelming majority or minority, and most of them I can understand... but this one the empathy and understanding goes right past me, and I'm trying to understand the overall logic beyond 'Gaming the system/game".
At most, likely less time, two hours pass before the event where you go in with a wound and are practically condemned to die. For the most part, this is actually understandable to me even though its rather Witch Trials since their suggestion of you risking infection and doing something that could kill you to prove you aren't infected isn't particularly a good idea. But sure. I can get that, especially with the story he tells as to why they're apprehensive in the first place. Its actually surprisingly forgivable!
But what I don't buy is this: He fires a shotgun at you. Literally. He misses by inches to gutshot you while you're down. Again, this happens two hours or less in time for his 'apology'. He's also practically a stranger. And they treated you like jerks besides. There are great friends who can't get over such severe accidents like that and are shaken for months, yet 90%+ are like "Oh yeah, you almost one shot KO'd me with a shotgun brutally? That's fine, you were emotionally distraught stranger!" That's the kind of event of callousness that would make you, even from a good friend, want to get the hell away from them and think or chill, not accept an apology. A stranger? I can't see it. Its a horrifying first impression.
So yeah, I don't understand it. I'd like to though. What reasons did you guys accept his apology, or was it simply a case of "I want him to like me later in case it saves me", which, while is kind of believable of an approach just doesn't feel like something most people would do with shaken nerves of almost being murdered.
Comments
I was wondering the same thing. I refused his apology, in the sense that, he'll have to earn it first. I think most people play by the "be nice to everyone," rule.
What's wrong with the 'be nice to everyone' rule?
That's a brilliant rule, not just in a game, but in real life.
Same, I refused it. I'm not sure if I trust anyone in the group at this point, Some of them seem nice (Like Luke) but they still seem suspicious.
I can forgive anyone if they really have the good intention and not doing the same mistake ever again,and that means I won't give them another chance in case they ruined it
So, in real life, someone almost shoots your face off...an hour later says sorry...and you are perfectly cool with it huh? Wow, you must be a real saint.
In the ZA that rule also gets you killed. You just can't be nice to everyone, it's not just black and white like that.
This right here is pretty much my answer.
Its a good rule. I just don't think its a rule I would extend towards someone who nearly shot me in the chest while I was helpless. There have to be limits if you have any self-worth. Your mentor takes care of you and puts his life before your own, your 'guardian parents' as it were try to protect and teach you about the world for nearly two years before you're separated, your childhood memories of your real parents resting on your brow; only to end because some guy you don't know has an itchy trigger finger because he's emotionally distraught?
That's an unreasonable amount of 'nice' you're having to swallow.
I don't think it's a good rule, plain and simple. There are times to be kind and then there are times to be cold....ESPECIALLY in a zombie apocalypse...I mean...come on.
Forgiveness is a wonderful thing.
I forgave his deed, because he didn't mean to do what he did.
He apologised, that's good enough for me.
Forgive, but don't forget.
I only accepted it since in my play through Rebecca caused Nick to misfire so I just took my hate out onto Rebecca.
And what good would refusing his apology do, really? Clem is clearly incapable of either executing any sort of revenge (aside from no helping) or surviving single-handed in the wilds. And it's not like „HUMPF!, I say you I haven't forgotten!” sulking would really be interesting to watch / would hurt Nick.
I accepted it. Those are just words and I need nick & his band more than they need me. But I still helped Pete over Nick for the very reason Nick almost shot me.
Strategically, no...it gains you nothing but a sore nick. I refused simply on what I would do in real life. As a matter of pride...NO! I wouldn't forgive someone for damn near murdering me when I needed him/her most on a REALLY bad guess. They'd have to earn my forgiveness....not just say "my bad," less than 2 hours later..
Refusing it, I'm sure Nick understands why. Like I said, In the ZA you can't just be nice to everybody, that will get you killed, most people don't care how nice you are. You have to be cold sometimes, just to survive.
I disagree that not accepting his apology immediately transitions to seeking revenge. Its just as much seeking detachment or disengaging from the party, especially since there's others present for the apology. Socially someone that uncomfortable and others knowing would seek to separate them from one another on tasks if possible from mutual understanding. IE: I doubt Luke would opt to have Nick take care of Clem if she's unnerved by him, he may do it himself. While if she's cool with him, Luke might find its less important and relegate the task to Nick with equal importance.
I do respect your reasoning for accepting it though as it makes sense (especially with the helping Pete choice you did later), just not the automatic assumption that not granting forgiveness translates to revenge. Though in your example the Pete and Nick choice was significantly different and much more even rather than overwhelming majority, so while that reason tailored well to you it doesn't seem to tailor well to the rest necessarily. But then that situation is rather abrupt and comes later, so that could explain that one.
I think with all she's gone through Clem understands that good people can do bad things.
Heck, her best friend was a convicted murderer.
As someone above me said. Forgive but never forget.
That would be true, but we don't know that Nick is a good person as of yet.
So you give him the benefit of the doubt.
Besides, Luke seems like a good man and he's sticking up for Nick.
I was really worried that Nick would turn out to be the kind of person to get someone from the group killed. I gave him an apology so I could sort of appease him, and hope that he doesn't go off on a group member.
I think this is probably key to why I don't understand, so I appreciate it. I guess its how you approach it. I kind of feel like I 'method act it' as the person rather than seeking strategy. I'm not saying Clementine is an emotional brat-- if you don't accept the apology, she's actually rather mature about it and expresses concern about his recklessness being frightening. (Though there are other ways to approach not accepting too.)
Mine more or less wanted an earning of forgiveness, not this "Well I almost murdered you a sec ago but bygones be bygones". Strategic makes sense, I just don't feel its Clem in this specific example, let alone that fast or that quick when it concerns her life. But maybe other people do.
See? Now that to me that doesn't translate as TRUE forgiveness. Forgiveness means wiping the slate clean and starting anew. Remembering what he did and always having your suspicions about that person doesn't ACTUALLY mean forgiveness. I Never understood why people use that saying...it should be more like, "Say you accept their apology, but always remember deep down that their an asshole."
Exactly, His temper could be a very bad problem in the future.
I actually think Clem and Nick are going to be close. They're both going through the same thing. Guilt about getting their loved ones killed.
Yeah... Forgiveness doesn't mean 'Lord it over them later'. Its supposed to be closure. x_x
Oh, of this I am sure. I even blackmailed Rebecca about her baby!
I would have been not very nice to Nick if I had some leverage to actually gain an upper hand over him. But I didn't have any. Best I could do is telling him I hate him, I don't trust him, etc. - which wouldn't really do anything much to hurt Nick, wouldn't do much to alleviate my irritation and certainly wouldn't help Clem.
The best asset Clementine IMHO has is that she's a little girl, which gets her some empathy. Playing on other people's sympathy for her is one of the key to her survival and you can't really put that off if you show your disdain for the members of group.
I would rather die than let go of my morals.
I accepted his apology on my first playthrough because it was an accident, he didn't mean to fire the gun. I've just nicknamed him triggerfinger to make up for it. d:
Now, Rebecca, that is a peson I'll be a complete asshole to. If you want to talk about not forgiving someone, Rebecca was pushing so hard for killing Clementine, and after she doesn't get her way, she is the only one who seems to have issues with Clementine staying for a while(Unless you piss Carlos off, then he doesn't like Clem much either). I've gotta say blackmailing Rebecca is fun, after how she acts. I didn't do it on my main playthrough, but I did try it and laughed my ass off.
Also, did it ever occur to the people complaining about the choice of forgiving him that maybe Clementine would want to forgive him just to get on friendly terms? I saw some complaining about forgiving him just to make him like Clementine more because it might save or help her some time, but don't you think maybe Clementine would be inclined to forgive him for a similar reason? Especially if she plans to stay with them. Forgive the person who accidentally almost killed you, since it was an accident and you aren't dead, and have him on your side in the future.
I'm actually thinking the opposite. I'm thinking Nick is going to screw Clem later on (betray or abandon), and depending on how close you've gotten with Nickm will effect how MUCH Nick screws you. Just my view. I see Nick as a person who is simply NOT to be trusted and completely unreliable.
Well, it's all just speculation.
I hope I'm wrong about everything really.
I'd rather be surprised than be right when I'm playing the next episodes.
Sure, if you're thinking game or character wise, forgiveness would be the best option. I base my decisions on what I would do in real life...so a bit of me transfers over to Clem. And, never know, if Clem is a proud survivor weary of trusting others, maybe she actually WOULD refuse his apology.
The way I saw it, if it hadn't been for his group, Clem would have already been torn apart by walkers in the woods. Furthermore, this being 2 years into the apocalypse, I fully expected any group of survivors I came across to be super-aggro and not give any fucks whether or not I was a little girl. So while his actions were hugely dickish, I was pretty much expecting anyone I came across to act like that if not worse so I guess I just wasn't that bothered by it. When he shot at me, my thought process was less "You fucker! How could you do that?!" and more "Jesus Christ! I'm not a threat to you!" They had already saved my life and I was completely at their mercy, so I didn't really feel like I was in any sort of position to hold grudges.
It's closure for the other person
EDIT: Doesn't necessarily have to mean closure for myself..
Clem owes her life to Pete and luke, She doesn't owe Nick, Carlos or any of the others anything. If not for Pete and Luke, clem would be dead. If Clem had stayed in the shed and couldn't break out, the whole group would be responsible for her death. Also...Nick almost shot clem's damn face off. The way I see it, Clem doesn't owe anyone anything.
I accepted Nick's apology because it seemed I already had one too many enemies among this new group without creating a few more on my own. I wanted to keep a low profile and be as agreeable as possible, since almost everybody else was going out of their way to be disagreeable (or in one case, just a little creepy).
But they didn't leave her in the shed til morning. After the meeting they all came to the shed. I'm guessing they decided to help her out afterall.
That's reasonable, and since there is no autopilot option we cannot tell for sure what Clementine would choose. Lol.
Im guessing they all heard the loud, piercing screams from Clem and the ruckus outside and came to check out what it was
Yeah. But I don't view the Clem as the one to react emotionally to this kind of situation. Not after all this time. Remember how in EP 1 Larry almost didn't kill Duck over the thought he was bitten? Remember how Kenny killed Larry, remember how Lilith killed Carley/Doug, etc.?
It's quite a lot of such experiences. IMHO Clem had the time to realize that people with guns aren't necessarily joking: and hey, if e.g. tensions alike those from Long Road Ahead happen again, Clem isn't gonna defend herself single-handed. (and Rebecca's sure to cast some stones at her!)
She may have grudge at Nick within her but should observe that he's one of the gunholders (I mean, Rebecca, Alvin, etc. aren't normally seen with guns – Pete and Nick are) and therefore a dangerous foe or a good ally should it ever come to Lilly's style accusations. And that doesn't mean she would necessary forgive him – but she clearly needs him more than he needs her, so she can hide some grudge. She had a few situations in which she could exercise 8)
(All would have been different if I planned to split with them, OFK)