Acting like an overly-nice person will lead people to take advantage of you and manipulate you. I'm not saying kindness is bad, i just think there's a time to be kind and a time to be cruel.
Yet acting like an asshole leaves you with no friends to back you up to. Either that or people kill you because of it. I'd rather make friends than enemies
I figured he was way out of line, but he was just trying to protect his group. He obviously can't take any more loss. I forgave him because, well, I know how it feels. Sometimes you just do stupid things you're going to regret, and you're genuinely sorry about it later on.
Um... Their characters were kind of based upon their morals? Dale spent an entire ep trying to convince the others to not lose their humanity. Hershel was Rick's conscience when he was going crazy and becoming cold like Shane. Mark defended saving Ben and his teacher or friend, Omid and Christa are obvious from almost every action in the games
His right hand man seems keen on betraying him. Being an asshole just attracts attention from enemies or makes your allies leave you. Good point though I don't know how he does it but he's managing to make me hate him for Issue 100 yet he's weirdly entertaining as a villain
True. Sorry, I'm used to the overly wannabe "hardcore" survivalist kinds of people who want to be lone wolf etc. There should be an instance in this game where being kind or open screws us over. Like the St Johns or Sam but something we aren't forced to do.
Acting like an overly-nice person will lead people to take advantage of you and manipulate you. I'm not saying kindness is bad, i just think there's a time to be kind and a time to be cruel.
Nick was stupid, but as Clem says (if you apologize), he was just scared and protecting his friends. I think acting rashly to protect others is something she would understand, especially because she saw many of the adults around her crumble to the same kind of pressure. She has maybe even done the same kind of thing herself, and I think she would understand that Nick shooting at her wasn't anything personal (he was just doing what she was doing: struggling to survive).
Also, considering she has zero allies and needs to rely on these people for the time being, it made sense to me to make friends when I could, even if Nick winds up being a lost cause.
His right hand man seems keen on betraying him. Being an asshole just attracts attention from enemies or makes your allies leave you. Good poi… morent though I don't know how he does it but he's managing to make me hate him for Issue 100 yet he's weirdly entertaining as a villain
Not my Lee . Quite frankly a lot of you are rather naive or I would even say selfish for wanting preserve your ideals when in many circumstances it might conflict with your life and willing your willing to die for it but your beliefs it can also threaten the lives of others . Shel's story gave a good example .
Because it seems foolish NOT to accept the apology. Clementine is a little girl surrounded by strangers in the zombie apocalypse and if they're against her, they pose a huge threat. Nothing good comes from refusing to be civil to those people, even if you don't trust them. Anybody smart would be very careful and not antagonize while at the same time plotting how to possibly get out of the situation if they turn out to be threats. A "nice" Clem is not necessarily a naive Clem; it's a Clem that plays it smart and recognizes her own limitations.
What about that story about Nick almost gut shooting his uncle Pete?
Granted, you hear that story later in the game after the choice of forgiveness or not. But irregardless. In real life, if a friend nearly missed shooting me by accident. I admit I would be shocked off my tits at the moment and back away from him for a few good minutes, maybe even pee in my pants. But afterwards, say two hours later I'd forgive him, especially if later on he "keep your finger off the trigger,son"
In addition to that, Clementine sorta had a hand in omid's death with her carelessness with her gun. And I sure as hell didn't want Christa to not forgive her, and Christa indeed protected Clem when she was caught by the bandits. I figured Nick deserved the same type of treatment from clem even if he did a colossal boo boo.
Because it seems foolish NOT to accept the apology. Clementine is a little girl surrounded by strangers in the zombie apocalypse and if they'r… moree against her, they pose a huge threat. Nothing good comes from refusing to be civil to those people, even if you don't trust them. Anybody smart would be very careful and not antagonize while at the same time plotting how to possibly get out of the situation if they turn out to be threats. A "nice" Clem is not necessarily a naive Clem; it's a Clem that plays it smart and recognizes her own limitations.
I figured everyone went through some shit and it changed them so i couldn't blame Nick for shit. Hell the guy tried to save sum1 who was bitten and ended losing his moms over it. I could side/sympathize with him once i found that out.
But, when it came down to when shit got real. The choice to save Nick or Pete down at the river. I had to go with Pete even tho he got bitten. Reason why was because if it wasn't Pete Clem would probably be dead, so i figured i owe him one. Not to mention Nick almost took Clems Head Off, acted like a spoiled brat, and seems to damn emotional so yea the whole treating people nice theme on this thread makes sense.
I accepted his apology because:
* It was an accident.
* His mother was zombie food for someone who they tried to treat previously.
* Re… morefusing someone's apology when they recognize they were in the wrong is a dick move. You may have reservations about that person from then on regardless of the apology, and understandably so, but throwing an apology in someone's face when they are seemingly genuine in their remorse is just an asshole thing to do.
To each their own, I suppose. I personally do the 'be nice to everyone' thing. Not completely, though. There are many characters that could be very helpful later on, such as Luke, and maybe even Alvin. Thing is, some people are just screwed up. There is a difference between a mistake through incompetence and one through spite. Best not to have someone who might be incompetent to point that incompetence at me, so I generally try to get on their side and make them aware of it. Nick actually apologized, which shows he has some sense of decency. People like Andy, or Lilly, I wouldn't be able to properly forgive. Not unless they earned it, and even then, never for Andy.
Anyway, I need people on my side if I have to stick with this group, and Nick pointing the gun at an enemy and shooting it by mistake is better than shooting me.
If you are talking about a zombie apocalypse in real life then I don't think the argument will go anywhere as that will never happen, however even generally in real life a key focus of my life is to maintain my morals.
....That's a video game that can only end one way REGARDLESS of how you played...I mean...REAL life...and/or a video game with multiple ending… mores...even I, who was probably more ruthless than you, received the very same ending as you...and will receive probably receive the very same ending as you this season. Evaluating the importance of morals using a linear video game is....well...I don't think it is the best approach.
My Lee killed Danny and Andy and for me that was a turning point for him, I think Clem still hasn't had her big turning point yet. Maybe I sho… moreuld rephrase you won't last long if you're not willing to break your morals unless you're in a big group so that you're protected
No, there are other situations in day-to-day life that test your morals, not just zombie apocalypses. And I mean, special BIG moral tests which some people never have to experience. Discussing this on the internet is moot though, I'll give you that.
How it ends is irrelevant for my comment.
My morals were tested throughout the whole thing.
If you are talking about a zombie apocalypse… more in real life then I don't think the argument will go anywhere as that will never happen, however even generally in real life a key focus of my life is to maintain my morals.
Maybe it's not the same for you.
Again...it's a liner video game. Plus, we don't KNOW what Clem has done in the past 16 months or what she WILL do in the next few episodes...episode 4 looks particularly distressing. Clem won't be the angel we know in love by the end of this season, I reckon.
I didnt see any reason not to. He was being an irrational jerk and he's trying to make amends. Also, she wants to stay with this group and receive their help, What sense does it make to keep walls up? She wants them to trust her and vice versa. Apologizing shows that he may be a hothead but he's not a bad person. How is accepting someone's sincere apology being overly nice? What do you gain being a jerk right back to them?
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies it by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies … moreit by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
Sorry but even if you dont really forgive him you at least pretend to. Deliberately not forgiving someone just creates an enemy that you dont need. In reality i did forgive him, he said sorry what more could he do?
Not my Lee . Quite frankly a lot of you are rather naive or I would even say selfish for wanting preserve your ideals when in many circumsta… morences it might conflict with your life and willing your willing to die for it but your beliefs it can also threaten the lives of others . Shel's story gave a good example .
Sorry but even if you dont really forgive him you at least pretend to. Deliberately not forgiving someone just creates an enemy that you dont need. In reality i did forgive him, he said sorry what more could he do?
I almost didn't accept the apology, because he was out of line, but I think it humiliating for him to have to apologize to an 11 year old girl. It takes a man to admit he's wrong. After hearing what happened to his mom, I'd probably have done what he did, minus firing the rifle.
True Kind of off topic but I wonder what it'd be like if Negan was the first major villain and the Governor was the villain right now. Like if he'd be kind of meh after Negan or the opposite
Yeah, after not expecting any form of apology from him I was surprised when it didn't take long for Nick to try and make amends, so I saw no reason to try and make enemies.
A lot of the group may act out of line, but Clem could have ended up with worse people.
At that point in the game, I was treating the group as a whole since I really didn't know anyone there and they were deciding what to do with … moreme collectively. It's true that Clem doesn't owe her life to anyone but Pete and Luke, but she was still an outsider who was saved by the actions of members of the group, so I felt it was appropriate for me to be passive and placating when dealing with the group and give them a much wider berth than I would have otherwise.
I'm certainly not saying that Nick had any right to do what he did, only that it's hard for me to be angry about being mistreated when I had just been saved from being eaten alive moments before. And having been through what she's been through, I feel like Clem's humanity bar was sufficiently lowered to the point where she was just glad they weren't psychos, rapists, or cannibals. Nick was willing to suck it up and offer up an earnest apology for being an aggressive prick. I think Clem would find it in her heart to forgive him.
I forgived him in my main playthrough, honestly i didn't even pay attention to his words it seemed to me that food on the table was far more important. Yeah-yeah, you shot at me, nom-nom, rick happens, nom-nom.
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies … moreit by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
Because it seems foolish NOT to accept the apology. Clementine is a little girl surrounded by strangers in the zombie apocalypse and if they'r… moree against her, they pose a huge threat. Nothing good comes from refusing to be civil to those people, even if you don't trust them. Anybody smart would be very careful and not antagonize while at the same time plotting how to possibly get out of the situation if they turn out to be threats. A "nice" Clem is not necessarily a naive Clem; it's a Clem that plays it smart and recognizes her own limitations.
Knowing how much Lee was hounded over every small mistake that he made or anything that went wrong, I felt in no way inclined to let Nick feel like he's made amends by apologising for preparing to shoot, and almost killing a 9-year-old girl lying on the ground, as if she posed a threat to anyone infected or not.
It's not unreasonable to expect more than an apology before you forgive someone for shooting at you and then locking you in a shed with an open wound and no way of stopping it becoming infected.
If I was to stay with that particular group I wouldn't be able to immediately forgive them and help them forget the way they acted.
He used the 9-year-old girl running away from the man aiming the shotgun at her, and a group of people arguing over whether to kill her as justification for shooting at Clementine.
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies … moreit by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
I forgave him for being an ass just this once, it is the ZA and he was scared of Clem turning into a walker and hurting one of them.. When it is revealed this wouldn't be the case he feels bad for his behavior and apologizes. Unlike Larry he is an ass no matter what and is not sorry about it. He was wrong about Duck being bitten and he never said anything about that. Never forgave him for that and after we saves his life to.
So Nick, I can forgive his actions since be still seems half decent.
I agree. It isn't as if I couldn't have forgiven him among the circumstances. I just think he grabbed for it way too soon and didn't show nearly the same amount of guilt for it. Just as abrupt as he shot her he blurbs up for an apology, and I don't think he deserves it at all given the circumstances. His trauma is not enough of a reason to end someone else's life, especially a little girl's. She didn't even really express interest in coming back to that camp with them in the first place so that should have been the first red flag that this wasn't like what happened to him before.
If it were a later episode and he had helped her out with something on the interim and then brought it up, I'd feel differently. Or a longer scene change like in Season 1 with Kenny when they move on to Macon and he still feels guilt about Shawn. But it isn't. Its literally a couple hours or less.
That is weird that we were in the 9.5%
Knowing how much Lee was hounded over every small mistake that he made or anything that went wrong, … moreI felt in no way inclined to let Nick feel like he's made amends by apologising for preparing to shoot, and almost killing a 9-year-old girl lying on the ground, as if she posed a threat to anyone infected or not.
It's not unreasonable to expect more than an apology before you forgive someone for shooting at you and then locking you in a shed with an open wound and no way of stopping it becoming infected.
If I was to stay with that particular group I wouldn't be able to immediately forgive them and help them forget the way they acted.
They thought she was working for Carver at that point (at least Nick and Rebecca did) and if she got away and told Carver where they were, well, they'd be dead by the end of the week (from what little we know of him). WE knew that Clem wasn't working for anyone, but THEY didn't, and they have to look after their own group first.
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies … moreit by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
Because it seems foolish NOT to accept the apology. Clementine is a little girl surrounded by strangers in the zombie apocalypse and if they'r… moree against her, they pose a huge threat. Nothing good comes from refusing to be civil to those people, even if you don't trust them. Anybody smart would be very careful and not antagonize while at the same time plotting how to possibly get out of the situation if they turn out to be threats. A "nice" Clem is not necessarily a naive Clem; it's a Clem that plays it smart and recognizes her own limitations.
Yep, Clementine fully understands how loving people can lead you to make huge mistakes (sometimes mistakes that cost you everything).
For example, based on your choices when Clem is eating, she tells Luke that Lee's death was her fault (because she was stupid and went to look for her parents).
I think she implies that Omid's death was her fault too, saying something like "everybody who helps me dies" or something along those lines (bad paraphrase, sorry).
It's heart-breaking, but it is some important characterization that the more hard-hearted players might miss if they don't allow their Clem to forgive others (ultimately allowing her to forgive herself).
What about that story about Nick almost gut shooting his uncle Pete?
Granted, you hear that story later in the game after the choice of for… moregiveness or not. But irregardless. In real life, if a friend nearly missed shooting me by accident. I admit I would be shocked off my tits at the moment and back away from him for a few good minutes, maybe even pee in my pants. But afterwards, say two hours later I'd forgive him, especially if later on he "keep your finger off the trigger,son"
In addition to that, Clementine sorta had a hand in omid's death with her carelessness with her gun. And I sure as hell didn't want Christa to not forgive her, and Christa indeed protected Clem when she was caught by the bandits. I figured Nick deserved the same type of treatment from clem even if he did a colossal boo boo.
I suppose. I don't really find that to be a good comparison though. Most people (myself included) found Larry to be a rather unlikable extremist and only dealt with him for Lilly's sake. And he had a strong list of reasons why-- from his first impression with Duck, towards his callous remarks towards Carley for saving your lives in the first place to knocking you almost unconscious/attempting to murder you when you go to escape the drug store. Being unapologetic about it three months later as he tries to justify it does not help any.
But then he has his reasons too. He's, presumably, protecting his daughter from a convict. Having a reason for something doesn't necessarily justify your actions though. I feel the same applies to Nick; but at least he isn't as over the top as Larry. This is why I could forgive him, as opposed to never forgive him like Larry.
I forgave him for being an ass just this once, it is the ZA and he was scared of Clem turning into a walker and hurting one of them.. When it … moreis revealed this wouldn't be the case he feels bad for his behavior and apologizes. Unlike Larry he is an ass no matter what and is not sorry about it. He was wrong about Duck being bitten and he never said anything about that. Never forgave him for that and after we saves his life to.
So Nick, I can forgive his actions since be still seems half decent.
Nick is my favorite character this season, and I've been thinking a lot about him. Seeing this topic, I want to share my thoughts on his nearly shooting Clem, as well as his equally-reckless behavior in Episode 2. This is not meant to explain why people accepted his apology or not, but seemed relevant.
I don't think Nick consciously chose to shoot at Clem and Matthew. He blames himself for what happened to his mother, who got bit when a bite victim they were looking after suddenly reanimated and attacked her. If he'd just reacted fast enough, she'd still be alive. I'm sure that's what he is always telling himself. His friends outside of the group are also dead. The group is therefore all he has. With Clementine, he is suddenly reliving what happened with his mom. When she stirs, he immediately sees her as a walker about to pounce on one of his loved ones. This time, he reacts fast enough, but it's too fast. Same thing with Matthew. Nick raised his weapon first, not the other way around. But that's not what he saw. He saw his best friend and Clem alone with an armed man and immediately believed they were in danger. In his eyes, that weapon was raised, and if he didn't act fast, they were dead.
Nick's not Kenny. He is not callous, just...traumatized. He doesn't want to fail ever again, and he especially doesn't want one of his failures to result in someone he cares about dying.
Comments
Acting like an overly-nice person will lead people to take advantage of you and manipulate you. I'm not saying kindness is bad, i just think there's a time to be kind and a time to be cruel.
I figured he was way out of line, but he was just trying to protect his group. He obviously can't take any more loss. I forgave him because, well, I know how it feels. Sometimes you just do stupid things you're going to regret, and you're genuinely sorry about it later on.
Um... Their characters were kind of based upon their morals? Dale spent an entire ep trying to convince the others to not lose their humanity. Hershel was Rick's conscience when he was going crazy and becoming cold like Shane. Mark defended saving Ben and his teacher or friend, Omid and Christa are obvious from almost every action in the games
His right hand man seems keen on betraying him. Being an asshole just attracts attention from enemies or makes your allies leave you. Good point though
I don't know how he does it but he's managing to make me hate him for Issue 100 yet he's weirdly entertaining as a villain
True. Sorry, I'm used to the overly wannabe "hardcore" survivalist kinds of people who want to be lone wolf etc. There should be an instance in this game where being kind or open screws us over. Like the St Johns or Sam but something we aren't forced to do.
Nick was stupid, but as Clem says (if you apologize), he was just scared and protecting his friends. I think acting rashly to protect others is something she would understand, especially because she saw many of the adults around her crumble to the same kind of pressure. She has maybe even done the same kind of thing herself, and I think she would understand that Nick shooting at her wasn't anything personal (he was just doing what she was doing: struggling to survive).
Also, considering she has zero allies and needs to rely on these people for the time being, it made sense to me to make friends when I could, even if Nick winds up being a lost cause.
Oh totally you want to see him pay but you'd miss him not being around, a very good villian, i like him more than the comic governor
Not my Lee . Quite frankly a lot of you are rather naive or I would even say selfish for wanting preserve your ideals when in many circumstances it might conflict with your life and willing your willing to die for it but your beliefs it can also threaten the lives of others . Shel's story gave a good example .
Because it seems foolish NOT to accept the apology. Clementine is a little girl surrounded by strangers in the zombie apocalypse and if they're against her, they pose a huge threat. Nothing good comes from refusing to be civil to those people, even if you don't trust them. Anybody smart would be very careful and not antagonize while at the same time plotting how to possibly get out of the situation if they turn out to be threats. A "nice" Clem is not necessarily a naive Clem; it's a Clem that plays it smart and recognizes her own limitations.
What about that story about Nick almost gut shooting his uncle Pete?
Granted, you hear that story later in the game after the choice of forgiveness or not. But irregardless. In real life, if a friend nearly missed shooting me by accident. I admit I would be shocked off my tits at the moment and back away from him for a few good minutes, maybe even pee in my pants. But afterwards, say two hours later I'd forgive him, especially if later on he "keep your finger off the trigger,son"
In addition to that, Clementine sorta had a hand in omid's death with her carelessness with her gun. And I sure as hell didn't want Christa to not forgive her, and Christa indeed protected Clem when she was caught by the bandits. I figured Nick deserved the same type of treatment from clem even if he did a colossal boo boo.
I agree. Being nice isn't just merely for charity, it's when you need someone the most, they will be there.
This was the same reason i accepted Nick apology.
I figured everyone went through some shit and it changed them so i couldn't blame Nick for shit. Hell the guy tried to save sum1 who was bitten and ended losing his moms over it. I could side/sympathize with him once i found that out.
But, when it came down to when shit got real. The choice to save Nick or Pete down at the river. I had to go with Pete even tho he got bitten. Reason why was because if it wasn't Pete Clem would probably be dead, so i figured i owe him one. Not to mention Nick almost took Clems Head Off, acted like a spoiled brat, and seems to damn emotional so yea the whole treating people nice theme on this thread makes sense.
To each their own, I suppose. I personally do the 'be nice to everyone' thing. Not completely, though. There are many characters that could be very helpful later on, such as Luke, and maybe even Alvin. Thing is, some people are just screwed up. There is a difference between a mistake through incompetence and one through spite. Best not to have someone who might be incompetent to point that incompetence at me, so I generally try to get on their side and make them aware of it. Nick actually apologized, which shows he has some sense of decency. People like Andy, or Lilly, I wouldn't be able to properly forgive. Not unless they earned it, and even then, never for Andy.
Anyway, I need people on my side if I have to stick with this group, and Nick pointing the gun at an enemy and shooting it by mistake is better than shooting me.
How it ends is irrelevant for my comment.
My morals were tested throughout the whole thing.
If you are talking about a zombie apocalypse in real life then I don't think the argument will go anywhere as that will never happen, however even generally in real life a key focus of my life is to maintain my morals.
Maybe it's not the same for you.
Your comment says that you'd be dead within 3 days of the ZA if you didn't let go of your morals.
Clementine has survived for about 600 days.
I accepted his apologize too. You know, if you read, what happened to him, you will understand.
No, there are other situations in day-to-day life that test your morals, not just zombie apocalypses. And I mean, special BIG moral tests which some people never have to experience. Discussing this on the internet is moot though, I'll give you that.
Again...it's a liner video game. Plus, we don't KNOW what Clem has done in the past 16 months or what she WILL do in the next few episodes...episode 4 looks particularly distressing. Clem won't be the angel we know in love by the end of this season, I reckon.
I didnt see any reason not to. He was being an irrational jerk and he's trying to make amends. Also, she wants to stay with this group and receive their help, What sense does it make to keep walls up? She wants them to trust her and vice versa. Apologizing shows that he may be a hothead but he's not a bad person. How is accepting someone's sincere apology being overly nice? What do you gain being a jerk right back to them?
I chose the option to run upon waking up. If you do this, Nick takes the shot at you when you're trying to flee in terror and then justifies it by saying SHE TRIED TO RUN.
Yeah, I'm not accepting his apology or associating with him unless I have to. It's just completely inexcusable. You better stop that terrified and wounded little girl from running Nick. Can't let her get away to do ummm.... who knows?
I really look forward to being an asshole to him in later episodes.
Carver.
If you were paying attention I said unless you have a group to protect you so you don't have to do anything.
Sorry but even if you dont really forgive him you at least pretend to. Deliberately not forgiving someone just creates an enemy that you dont need. In reality i did forgive him, he said sorry what more could he do?
Well said. To quote the Govenor "You either kill or you die or you die and you kill".
The game doesn't give us the distinction. Sure, maybe we didn't really forgive him in our head, but our character in the game did.
I almost didn't accept the apology, because he was out of line, but I think it humiliating for him to have to apologize to an 11 year old girl. It takes a man to admit he's wrong. After hearing what happened to his mom, I'd probably have done what he did, minus firing the rifle.
True
Kind of off topic but I wonder what it'd be like if Negan was the first major villain and the Governor was the villain right now. Like if he'd be kind of meh after Negan or the opposite
Yeah, after not expecting any form of apology from him I was surprised when it didn't take long for Nick to try and make amends, so I saw no reason to try and make enemies.
A lot of the group may act out of line, but Clem could have ended up with worse people.
When ZA happens i probably be Nick :P.
I forgived him in my main playthrough, honestly i didn't even pay attention to his words it seemed to me that food on the table was far more important. Yeah-yeah, you shot at me, nom-nom, rick happens, nom-nom.
Uh, wow. Did not know that. That just makes it worse. >_>
You make some good points. Its not about just being nice. There's more than one way to survive than just by brute force.
That is weird that we were in the 9.5%
Knowing how much Lee was hounded over every small mistake that he made or anything that went wrong, I felt in no way inclined to let Nick feel like he's made amends by apologising for preparing to shoot, and almost killing a 9-year-old girl lying on the ground, as if she posed a threat to anyone infected or not.
It's not unreasonable to expect more than an apology before you forgive someone for shooting at you and then locking you in a shed with an open wound and no way of stopping it becoming infected.
If I was to stay with that particular group I wouldn't be able to immediately forgive them and help them forget the way they acted.
He used the 9-year-old girl running away from the man aiming the shotgun at her, and a group of people arguing over whether to kill her as justification for shooting at Clementine.
As if anyone would forgive him at that point.
I forgave him for being an ass just this once, it is the ZA and he was scared of Clem turning into a walker and hurting one of them.. When it is revealed this wouldn't be the case he feels bad for his behavior and apologizes. Unlike Larry he is an ass no matter what and is not sorry about it. He was wrong about Duck being bitten and he never said anything about that. Never forgave him for that and after we saves his life to.
So Nick, I can forgive his actions since be still seems half decent.
I agree. It isn't as if I couldn't have forgiven him among the circumstances. I just think he grabbed for it way too soon and didn't show nearly the same amount of guilt for it. Just as abrupt as he shot her he blurbs up for an apology, and I don't think he deserves it at all given the circumstances. His trauma is not enough of a reason to end someone else's life, especially a little girl's. She didn't even really express interest in coming back to that camp with them in the first place so that should have been the first red flag that this wasn't like what happened to him before.
If it were a later episode and he had helped her out with something on the interim and then brought it up, I'd feel differently. Or a longer scene change like in Season 1 with Kenny when they move on to Macon and he still feels guilt about Shawn. But it isn't. Its literally a couple hours or less.
They thought she was working for Carver at that point (at least Nick and Rebecca did) and if she got away and told Carver where they were, well, they'd be dead by the end of the week (from what little we know of him). WE knew that Clem wasn't working for anyone, but THEY didn't, and they have to look after their own group first.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." ~somebody likely to survive ZA
Yep, Clementine fully understands how loving people can lead you to make huge mistakes (sometimes mistakes that cost you everything).
For example, based on your choices when Clem is eating, she tells Luke that Lee's death was her fault (because she was stupid and went to look for her parents).
I think she implies that Omid's death was her fault too, saying something like "everybody who helps me dies" or something along those lines (bad paraphrase, sorry).
It's heart-breaking, but it is some important characterization that the more hard-hearted players might miss if they don't allow their Clem to forgive others (ultimately allowing her to forgive herself).
I suppose. I don't really find that to be a good comparison though. Most people (myself included) found Larry to be a rather unlikable extremist and only dealt with him for Lilly's sake. And he had a strong list of reasons why-- from his first impression with Duck, towards his callous remarks towards Carley for saving your lives in the first place to knocking you almost unconscious/attempting to murder you when you go to escape the drug store. Being unapologetic about it three months later as he tries to justify it does not help any.
But then he has his reasons too. He's, presumably, protecting his daughter from a convict. Having a reason for something doesn't necessarily justify your actions though. I feel the same applies to Nick; but at least he isn't as over the top as Larry. This is why I could forgive him, as opposed to never forgive him like Larry.
Nick is my favorite character this season, and I've been thinking a lot about him. Seeing this topic, I want to share my thoughts on his nearly shooting Clem, as well as his equally-reckless behavior in Episode 2. This is not meant to explain why people accepted his apology or not, but seemed relevant.
I don't think Nick consciously chose to shoot at Clem and Matthew. He blames himself for what happened to his mother, who got bit when a bite victim they were looking after suddenly reanimated and attacked her. If he'd just reacted fast enough, she'd still be alive. I'm sure that's what he is always telling himself. His friends outside of the group are also dead. The group is therefore all he has. With Clementine, he is suddenly reliving what happened with his mom. When she stirs, he immediately sees her as a walker about to pounce on one of his loved ones. This time, he reacts fast enough, but it's too fast. Same thing with Matthew. Nick raised his weapon first, not the other way around. But that's not what he saw. He saw his best friend and Clem alone with an armed man and immediately believed they were in danger. In his eyes, that weapon was raised, and if he didn't act fast, they were dead.
Nick's not Kenny. He is not callous, just...traumatized. He doesn't want to fail ever again, and he especially doesn't want one of his failures to result in someone he cares about dying.