Now I think it's because it's been hinted that someone from Season 1 will return, and the only options really are Lilly, Kenny(who was confirmed to return by Telltale), and maybe Molly.
Therefore, these characters are now relevant once more.
The question is....why exactly are people still arguing over Lilly and Kenny?That was great in S1,but now....?Its S2,and S1 is behind.Every ch… morearacter got their final scene,every character showed their intentions,their loyalties (or opposite) to you,etc. etc. so why the need to still argue about it?Everyone already said all the opinions about Kenny and Lilly back in the old forums,why start all over again now?
The forums are on fire from all the arguing and insults from Lily vs. Kenny teams as if we are still on Episode 3 in Season 1;so hey,Lilly killed Carley and Kenny was an ass to you at the opening scene.
Don't get me wrong,I have nothing against discussions over TWD characters,but people need to calm down a bit.
I think both characters are well written and have some great character development. That being said, OH MY GOD (these are my personal feelings, I respect how others feel, and in no way think people are lesser for disagreeing with me) I HATE LILLY SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH ! I helped her try to save her dad and what does she do, kill one of the most useful people ever. Also she was a complete B**** when I first met her. Though to be fair she grew on me over episode two and I was really sympathetic to her during most of episode 3, but she messed it all up and did something completely irrational and unforgivable. For the record I don't think what Kenny did in the meat locker was anymore forgivable but at least there was some method to his madness, I could see were he was coming from at the very least, I didn't agree with him but still. Lilly however couldn't deal with her emotion and FREAKS OUT, and kills a group member. She feels bad for what she did sure, but guess what it doesn't bring back the missing group member. Anyway sorry if I'm a little harsh, it's just how I feel about the whole thing. Just to clarify one last time though, I don't think Kenny is all that great either, just better in my opinion.
Because Kenny is probably going to return in next episode, and Lilly-lovers are so butthurt about it that they take every opportunity to remind everyone how bad they hate him.
The question is....why exactly are people still arguing over Lilly and Kenny?That was great in S1,but now....?Its S2,and S1 is behind.Every ch… morearacter got their final scene,every character showed their intentions,their loyalties (or opposite) to you,etc. etc. so why the need to still argue about it?Everyone already said all the opinions about Kenny and Lilly back in the old forums,why start all over again now?
The forums are on fire from all the arguing and insults from Lily vs. Kenny teams as if we are still on Episode 3 in Season 1;so hey,Lilly killed Carley and Kenny was an ass to you at the opening scene.
Don't get me wrong,I have nothing against discussions over TWD characters,but people need to calm down a bit.
"Support" and "didn't support" are a little ambiguous and vague.
If you helped Kenny smash her father's head in with a saltlick, Lilly is willing to stand by and let you struggle for your life against Andy St. John.
If you try to resuscitate someone who he thinks will be a threat to him, Kenny is willing to stand by and let you struggle for your life against a bunch of zombies piling on top of you.
I think Lilly has a little more reason to be pissed at you and leave you for dead than Kenny does. Also, with Lilly, it had just happened. With Kenny, there were a few weeks between you not helping him off a guy and him leaving you for dead.
I honestly prefer Kenny's character, and i'm actually going to use something I said on another thread to show why:
If you totally support L… moreilly, then eventually, she kills Carely(or Doug), throws you under the bus by telling everyone you're a murderer, and then leaves with the RV even if you say you want to go with her.
If you support Kenny, then by the end he considers Lee and Clem to be the only family he has left, and basically follows Lee into hell on earth, eventually forgiving Ben(or not), and sacrificing himself trying to save Ben(or Christa).
If you didn't support Lilly, same thing happens, but throughout the entire game she was horrible, negative, and basically stood by and watched as Lee was about to be killed(and she had a gun and a clear shot).
If you didn't support Kenny, then he doesn't end up going with you at first, doesn't like you, but is still a good guy throughout the entire game(in my opinion), and he still forgiv… [view original content]
Kenny was never confirmed (by TT) to return,only that his "fate will be explored" which can mean a lot of things.
Even if it was hinted in the teaser that it might be Kenny/Lilly (for all we know,it might not be one of them at all),that doesn't mean people can start flame wars and create fan "TeamKenny" accounts.
Now I think it's because it's been hinted that someone from Season 1 will return, and the only options really are Lilly, Kenny(who was confirmed to return by Telltale), and maybe Molly.
Therefore, these characters are now relevant once more.
Yeah honestly neither care about Clementine really. Lilly leaves regardless and Kenny ONLY helps if your his friend as Lee, (if you count siding with him on everything as friendship) If Kenny cared about clem he would always go with Lee t find her but he dosn't.
Honestly it depends on your viewpoint and personal play through, but overall neither cared about clementine especially, they both just saw her as a kid who needed protection like any other adult in the group
Are you kidding me ?
When she steals the RV, she doesn't only let Lee down, but also Clementine.
If she cared about Clem, she would mean it when she tells Lee "Get Clementine", instead of using the girl as an excuse for getting Lee out the RV.
I'm not so sure, in every conversation she just seemed to be so negative, all the time. In terms of a being a leader, she kind of falls on the super 'practical' side, which is best described as Shane from the TV show put it, "It's simple math, how much food, how much ammo, how much fuel. Sophia only matters in that she doesn't drag the rest of us down"(Similar to how Lilly didn't want Ben or Mr. Parker(determinant) in the group.
Kenny, on the other hand, seemed more like Rick in the way that he led, still trying to hold onto humanity, while continually being forced to do more and more terrible things.
Honestly, this is one of the main reasons I don't like Lilly, along with the fact that her default attitude seems to be negative.
Lilly focused on keeping the group alive, which means she was forced to make hard choices herself (Creating rations to keep the group fed, dec… moreiding who gets the food at that time and who doesn't knowing that someone could go a whole day without food (the stress)) the only reason she has to hate someone if someone doesn't appreciate what she does for the group, as she says "Look, I'm working my ass off to make sure we have a good set up here, and Kenny just doesn't appreciate it." I guarantee that if people were more appreciative of what she does, she wouldn't be so pissed at people.
I appreciate Kenny as much as I do Lilly, but Kenny is to focused on his family, and as a leader, that turns into a burden. Lilly in the same boat with Larry, though, but she still managed to keep her head (or tries to).
I'm not so sure, in every conversation she just seemed to be so negative, all the time. In terms of a being a leader, she kind of falls on the… more super 'practical' side, which is best described as Shane from the TV show put it, "It's simple math, how much food, how much ammo, how much fuel. Sophia only matters in that she doesn't drag the rest of us down"(Similar to how Lilly didn't want Ben or Mr. Parker(determinant) in the group.
Kenny, on the other hand, seemed more like Rick in the way that he led, still trying to hold onto humanity, while continually being forced to do more and more terrible things.
Honestly, this is one of the main reasons I don't like Lilly, along with the fact that her default attitude seems to be negative.
None of us know if he is going to return or not.Clem's "I thought you were dead" could be related to Christa,Omid,or any other character that might receive a "dead" status in Episode 2.After all,its just a teaser,and we all know how "teasers" in S1 turned up,with most of the said lines missing and previewed scenes playing completely differently.
I can understand people wanting Kenny/Lilly to return,but starting wars based on pure speculation is not a good way to begin.
Because Kenny is probably going to return in next episode, and Lilly-lovers are so butthurt about it that they take every opportunity to remind everyone how bad they hate him.
Kenny was never confirmed (by TT) to return,only that his "fate will be explored" which can mean a lot of things.
Even if it was hinted in … morethe teaser that it might be Kenny/Lilly (for all we know,it might not be one of them at all),that doesn't mean people can start flame wars and create fan "TeamKenny" accounts.
First of all, thank you for creating this thread. Its nice to have a thread focusing on rational arguments.
Here's the reason why I like Kenny more than Lilly.
If you side with Kenny 100% of the way, he will treat you like you are family (he will even say you and Clem are the only family he has left if you choose to hide the bite in episode 4).
If you side against him in every single decision, he will mostly be a massive asshole, but will occasionally do something nice ( He always saves your life in episode 1, even if you save Shawn and side with Larry. Additionally, his motivational speech in episode 5 always ends with, "so lets figure out a way out of here and get that little girl", meaning that he had decided to help you save Clem, even if he refused to help you back in episode 4).
If you side against Lilly in every single decision, she will be a massive bitch to you (admittedly, for some very good reasons. Killing her father would definitely put someone on your shit list).
However, if you side with Lilly on every single decision, she will be nice to you for a while. Then, she will reveal your past to the rest of the group in an attempt to save her ass. Furthermore, if you let her back into the RV, and accept her offer to leave with her in the RV, she will abandon you and Clem with the rest of the group, including Kenny, will probably hate your guts at this point.
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help them.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also like to bring forward 2 very comparable scenarios with Kenny and Lilly. After you get Larry his nitro from the pharmacy, Lilly is appreciative and thanks you for the help, no matter what you say to her. Looking at Kenny though, Lee figures out how to escape the barn, kills Danny (thus freeing Kenny), saves Katjaa and then Duck. Thats not enough for Kenny by the way, it doesnt convince him that youre looking out for Kat and Duck if you didnt murder Larry. He argues that HE saved them by murdering Larry. I dont know, but i cant trust anyone thats that diluted.
Lastly, Ill point out some other bits of dialogue that really makes Kenny's personality shine. When you first get back to the motel in Ep2, you have the option to say Lilly's right, Kenny's right, or it doesnt matter. If you choose Lilly, he berates you and says "way to pick sides Lee" sarcastically, but if you choose no one, he STILL berates you, but for NOT picking sides. Lilly is just angry at the situation and ends up handing you the food angry (nothing really directed at you though), or if you agree with her, calmly.
His contradiction really shows that hes only after your vote and he only hangs around you because he believes he cant protect himself and his family by himself.
She tells you to go get Clem and they can all leave in the RV together, but it turns out to be an excuse to get you out of the RV, as she leaves as soon as you exit.
Even if you disagree with Kenny he stills helps Lee go through hell to find Clementine. While agreeing with Lilly gets you what? Nothing because she steals the damn RV and doesn't even take you with her.
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help … morethem.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also lik… [view original content]
Except how about no. I'm speaking of your point of Kenny not being appreciative of stuff you do for him of course. He thanks you for saving duck and or standing up to Larry at the drug store. He offers to take you with him to the coast, and he saves your ass at the end of episode one regardless of if you helped him with anything. Rather then that the rest your post is your opinion and your allowed to have it. I'd make a minor argument though that because of the stuff that went down and the very begging of EP. 2 that Kenny's patience was pretty thin, although to be fair so was Lilly's, but hey some people handle that kinda stuff better.
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help … morethem.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also lik… [view original content]
I actually don't fully agree with the "abandon" line of thought if you let her take the RV, because it's possible that after Lee left, she thought "oh crap he's gonna tell Kenny" and left.
And yea, I get your line of thought. I personally don't support one over the other.
First of all, thank you for creating this thread. Its nice to have a thread focusing on rational arguments.
Here's the reason why I like Ke… morenny more than Lilly.
If you side with Kenny 100% of the way, he will treat you like you are family (he will even say you and Clem are the only family he has left if you choose to hide the bite in episode 4).
If you side against him in every single decision, he will mostly be a massive asshole, but will occasionally do something nice ( He always saves your life in episode 1, even if you save Shawn and side with Larry. Additionally, his motivational speech in episode 5 always ends with, "so lets figure out a way out of here and get that little girl", meaning that he had decided to help you save Clem, even if he refused to help you back in episode 4).
If you side against Lilly in every single decision, she will be a massive bitch to you (admittedly, for some very good reasons. Killing her father would… [view original content]
If we're going to use dialogue, I still think that the line Kenny makes in accordance to Lee telling Kenny that Molly saved his life "Yea, well, what has she done for me lately?" really cinches the idea that Kenny is only nice to those who are nice to him or agree with him.
However, he does ultimately go with Lee to save Clementine and does a self-sacrifice move. Kinda reminds me of Iron Man in the Avengers movie..
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help … morethem.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also lik… [view original content]
If you have Kenny's back when it matters, he has yours.
Majority of people who get sour with Kenny think they can not back him or play the middle and that they should reap the benefits of not-picking-sides just because you're a nice guy, but not going out on a limb for anybody else means nobody goes out on a limb for you.
Want to talk about the pharmacy? Ok. Kenny was supportive of getting Larry his medication, even after he threatened his son. Kenny comes back and saves your ass when Larry knocks you flat, even if you're an asshole to him or his family. Quite frankly when he counts on you to take Larry out, you should have his back. If you don't, you're letting him, the group, and Clem down.
Being trapped in a meat locker with the girl you're supposed to take care of with a giant guy who could at any second reanimate and kill all of you calls for taking him out. He had a serious heart attack, he's unconscious, he's not breathing, he doesn't have any medication and you have literally no idea if he'll turn in a minute or in seconds. Kenny's call was totally right if you're not playing video-game good-guy bushido-honor rules which are in no way applicable in that kind of scenario.
What does having Lilly's back get you, besides earfuls of angst-ridden moping?
Oh yeah, she murders either your love-interest and perhaps the most forthright decent person in the group or a solid, harmless dude who's probably the most tech-savvy guy left alive in Georgia. Great.
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help … morethem.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also lik… [view original content]
Actually the right call in that situation would be to have two people holding the salt-lick above Larry's head while someone tries to revive him, and to drop it either when hope of revival is lost or when he turns.
Kenny's call was right, but it was premature. Especially since Larry was just about to wake up when his head was smashed.
Long post. Guess what?
If you have Kenny's back when it matters, he has yours.
Majority of people who get sour with Kenny think they can… more not back him or play the middle and that they should reap the benefits of not-picking-sides just because you're a nice guy, but not going out on a limb for anybody else means nobody goes out on a limb for you.
Want to talk about the pharmacy? Ok. Kenny was supportive of getting Larry his medication, even after he threatened his son. Kenny comes back and saves your ass when Larry knocks you flat, even if you're an asshole to him or his family. Quite frankly when he counts on you to take Larry out, you should have his back. If you don't, you're letting him, the group, and Clem down.
Being trapped in a meat locker with the girl you're supposed to take care of with a giant guy who could at any second reanimate and kill all of you calls for taking him out. He had a serious heart attack, he's unconscious, … [view original content]
You speak as though "going out on a limb" for Kenny is an all-or-nothing venture. You can go out on a limb for him 9/10 times and when you get back he'll still call you out on time number 10.
He bitches me out at the dairy for not jumping to save his son even though Kenny was right the fuck there and I was trying to help the guy trapped under the goddamn tractor (whom his son ran over with btw). And all of this after I talked him out of being down on himself for running away from Shawn instead of putting his son down and helping the poor bastard.
Then, after I talked him out of running away from his son's condition and volunteered to mercy kill Duck because he didn't know if he had the balls to, he has the nerve to refuse to help me look for Clem when she was kidnapped because I didn't have his back EVERY goddamn second. He somewhat redeems himself at the end but Kenny was a petty bitch for a good long while in my game.
Long post. Guess what?
If you have Kenny's back when it matters, he has yours.
Majority of people who get sour with Kenny think they can… more not back him or play the middle and that they should reap the benefits of not-picking-sides just because you're a nice guy, but not going out on a limb for anybody else means nobody goes out on a limb for you.
Want to talk about the pharmacy? Ok. Kenny was supportive of getting Larry his medication, even after he threatened his son. Kenny comes back and saves your ass when Larry knocks you flat, even if you're an asshole to him or his family. Quite frankly when he counts on you to take Larry out, you should have his back. If you don't, you're letting him, the group, and Clem down.
Being trapped in a meat locker with the girl you're supposed to take care of with a giant guy who could at any second reanimate and kill all of you calls for taking him out. He had a serious heart attack, he's unconscious, … [view original content]
Can't count on Lilly to hold her Dad down to smash his head. Clem can't help. That leaves Lee and Kenny.
If reanimation happens suddenly and without warning, which for all they know it could, they're pretty much screwed. One little bite in that confined space and then there's going to be two.
In giving him CPR, mouth-to-mouth would probably be out of the question.
The chances of someone in Larry's condition surviving that are slim to none.
There's really no way to assure safety except to get Larry's head smashed as quickly as possible.
Actually the right call in that situation would be to have two people holding the salt-lick above Larry's head while someone tries to revive h… moreim, and to drop it either when hope of revival is lost or when he turns.
Kenny's call was right, but it was premature. Especially since Larry was just about to wake up when his head was smashed.
Well him either refusing to look for clem or not is based on what choice you say to him in that situation. I think you have to say something like "Clem is family" or something like that. Then he agrees no matter what.
You speak as though "going out on a limb" for Kenny is an all-or-nothing venture. You can go out on a limb for him 9/10 times and when you get… more back he'll still call you out on time number 10.
He bitches me out at the dairy for not jumping to save his son even though Kenny was right the fuck there and I was trying to help the guy trapped under the goddamn tractor (whom his son ran over with btw). And all of this after I talked him out of being down on himself for running away from Shawn instead of putting his son down and helping the poor bastard.
Then, after I talked him out of running away from his son's condition and volunteered to mercy kill Duck because he didn't know if he had the balls to, he has the nerve to refuse to help me look for Clem when she was kidnapped because I didn't have his back EVERY goddamn second. He somewhat redeems himself at the end but Kenny was a petty bitch for a good long while in my game.
Except that if you come to the point where you agree to go with Lilly even after the Doug/Carley situation, it's because you like her so much you are ready to leave the rest of the group for her and consider her your best friend in the group.
Seeing how the game forced you to take sides, if you are such best friends with her at this point, it means you've already become enemies with Kenny.
Which makes your assumption pretty illogical : this very situation in the game implies you have reached such a point of support for Lilly that you automatically have already faced Kenny's anger a lot of times, and that means Lilly wouldn't have any reasons to believe you would tell Kenny....
...And every reason to take you and Clem in instead of backstabbing you both first opportunity she gets.
I actually don't fully agree with the "abandon" line of thought if you let her take the RV, because it's possible that after Lee left, she tho… moreught "oh crap he's gonna tell Kenny" and left.
And yea, I get your line of thought. I personally don't support one over the other.
Well him either refusing to look for clem or not is based on what choice you say to him in that situation. I think you have to say something like "Clem is family" or something like that. Then he agrees no matter what.
Except that if you come to the point where you agree to go with Lilly even after the Doug/Carley situation, it's because you like her so much … moreyou are ready to leave the rest of the group for her and consider her your best friend in the group.
Seeing how the game forced you to take sides, if you are such best friends with her at this point, it means you've already become enemies with Kenny.
Which makes your assumption pretty illogical : this very situation in the game implies you have reached such a point of support for Lilly that you automatically have already faced Kenny's anger a lot of times, and that means Lilly wouldn't have any reasons to believe you would tell Kenny....
...And every reason to take you and Clem in instead of backstabbing you both first opportunity she gets.
6'4. 300 lbs guy.
Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Clem are in the room.
Can't count on Lilly to hold her Dad down to smash his head. Clem can't help.… more That leaves Lee and Kenny.
If reanimation happens suddenly and without warning, which for all they know it could, they're pretty much screwed. One little bite in that confined space and then there's going to be two.
In giving him CPR, mouth-to-mouth would probably be out of the question.
The chances of someone in Larry's condition surviving that are slim to none.
There's really no way to assure safety except to get Larry's head smashed as quickly as possible.
You speak as though "going out on a limb" for Kenny is an all-or-nothing venture. You can go out on a limb for him 9/10 times and when you get… more back he'll still call you out on time number 10.
He bitches me out at the dairy for not jumping to save his son even though Kenny was right the fuck there and I was trying to help the guy trapped under the goddamn tractor (whom his son ran over with btw). And all of this after I talked him out of being down on himself for running away from Shawn instead of putting his son down and helping the poor bastard.
Then, after I talked him out of running away from his son's condition and volunteered to mercy kill Duck because he didn't know if he had the balls to, he has the nerve to refuse to help me look for Clem when she was kidnapped because I didn't have his back EVERY goddamn second. He somewhat redeems himself at the end but Kenny was a petty bitch for a good long while in my game.
In my game(btw, there was one time when I didn't side with Kenny), I told them not to go with me, and Kenny refused to let Lee go on his own, saying that Lee and Clem were the only family he had left.
Really, that moment there kind of made him one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise, so I can get how some people don't like him, but he's got my be my number 3 favorite character ever.
I've heard that before, but after 3 months of always agreeing with her, you'd think she would be able to trust him. I mean, Lee just let her stay in the RV after killing one of his close friends (applies to either Carley or Doug, although in different ways), and tried to save her father even though Larry knew about his past. You'd think it would be worth the risk to repay him after all that time.
I actually don't fully agree with the "abandon" line of thought if you let her take the RV, because it's possible that after Lee left, she tho… moreught "oh crap he's gonna tell Kenny" and left.
And yea, I get your line of thought. I personally don't support one over the other.
No yeah, that's completely fair. We had different experiences with the character and I don't fault anyone for liking him based on their personal experience with him. But my personal experience paints a far different picture of the man and it's not a pretty one.
In my game(btw, there was one time when I didn't side with Kenny), I told them not to go with me, and Kenny refused to let Lee go on his own, … moresaying that Lee and Clem were the only family he had left.
Really, that moment there kind of made him one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise, so I can get how some people don't like him, but he's got my be my number 3 favorite character ever.
Actually, if you don't save her dad, she says something along the lines of:
"I had you while you were looking at the front of the RV. I know you did what you did for a reason, and part of me understands. But the other part sees you with your back turned and knows I could have killed you. I'm leaving."
Helping her with Larry is the only choice that matters to her in this regard.
But remember the band directer whose leg got cut off? He turned in about a minute after dying. If Larry was dead, and they had a lot of reasons to believe he was, Kenny made the right call.
Also, when you see Larry move, that could have been the start of reanimation. Its deliberately vague. We will never know.
Oh, well, I didn't kill Larry but I always supported Kenny beforehand, and hell afterwards, besides stealing from the car, I still agreed with Kenny about getting out of the Motor Inn.
I think the decision of trying to save or kill Larry changes more things than it should have.
Actually, if you don't save her dad, she says something along the lines of:
"I had you while you were looking at the front of the RV. I kno… morew you did what you did for a reason, and part of me understands. But the other part sees you with your back turned and knows I could have killed you. I'm leaving."
Helping her with Larry is the only choice that matters to her in this regard.
I saw him. Right there. And I wasn't "letting his son die," I was helping the guy who was clearly injured and unable to free his leg. The guy who had already saved me and Clem by getting us away from an approaching hoard of zombies. I had only just met Kenny and Duck like 20 minutes before. I didn't owe him anything. I owed Shawn.
I did "have his back" when Larry collapsed. I also defended his son when Larry was saying that he was bitten, gave him one of 4 extremely scarce food items, saved him when the zombie grabbed his leg at the beginning of Episode 4, and shot the zombie that was attacking his wife and kid (didn't really save the kid, but definitely saved the wife).
The fact that he questioned my loyalty and said that I "looked out for myself more often than my friends" after all the shit I did for him and his family makes him a bad friend. Powerful alpha musk be damned.
He wasn't right there as far as you know, and you were going to let his son die.
And later on in that episode he ran back into a walker-inf… moreested drugstore to save your life when Larry tried to kill you.
You should thank him profusely and have his back when it matters like in that meat locker when Larry's number comes up.
If you said the "Clem's family" line he'll come with you to help, because family's what matters to him.
I think this is a case of you not understanding the powerful alpha musk mentality of a panhandle Floridian.
Even if Lee always agreed with her (and my Lee didn't and I had the option to try to stay with her), she was so paranoid "The list of people I can trust gets lower every day!" and you know, Lee may have been the last person on her list.
I've heard that before, but after 3 months of always agreeing with her, you'd think she would be able to trust him. I mean, Lee just let her s… moretay in the RV after killing one of his close friends (applies to either Carley or Doug, although in different ways), and tried to save her father even though Larry knew about his past. You'd think it would be worth the risk to repay him after all that time.
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Now I think it's because it's been hinted that someone from Season 1 will return, and the only options really are Lilly, Kenny(who was confirmed to return by Telltale), and maybe Molly.
Therefore, these characters are now relevant once more.
I think both characters are well written and have some great character development. That being said, OH MY GOD (these are my personal feelings, I respect how others feel, and in no way think people are lesser for disagreeing with me) I HATE LILLY SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH ! I helped her try to save her dad and what does she do, kill one of the most useful people ever. Also she was a complete B**** when I first met her. Though to be fair she grew on me over episode two and I was really sympathetic to her during most of episode 3, but she messed it all up and did something completely irrational and unforgivable. For the record I don't think what Kenny did in the meat locker was anymore forgivable but at least there was some method to his madness, I could see were he was coming from at the very least, I didn't agree with him but still. Lilly however couldn't deal with her emotion and FREAKS OUT, and kills a group member. She feels bad for what she did sure, but guess what it doesn't bring back the missing group member. Anyway sorry if I'm a little harsh, it's just how I feel about the whole thing. Just to clarify one last time though, I don't think Kenny is all that great either, just better in my opinion.
Because Kenny is probably going to return in next episode, and Lilly-lovers are so butthurt about it that they take every opportunity to remind everyone how bad they hate him.
"Support" and "didn't support" are a little ambiguous and vague.
If you helped Kenny smash her father's head in with a saltlick, Lilly is willing to stand by and let you struggle for your life against Andy St. John.
If you try to resuscitate someone who he thinks will be a threat to him, Kenny is willing to stand by and let you struggle for your life against a bunch of zombies piling on top of you.
I think Lilly has a little more reason to be pissed at you and leave you for dead than Kenny does. Also, with Lilly, it had just happened. With Kenny, there were a few weeks between you not helping him off a guy and him leaving you for dead.
Kenny was never confirmed (by TT) to return,only that his "fate will be explored" which can mean a lot of things.
Even if it was hinted in the teaser that it might be Kenny/Lilly (for all we know,it might not be one of them at all),that doesn't mean people can start flame wars and create fan "TeamKenny" accounts.
Yeah honestly neither care about Clementine really. Lilly leaves regardless and Kenny ONLY helps if your his friend as Lee, (if you count siding with him on everything as friendship) If Kenny cared about clem he would always go with Lee t find her but he dosn't.
Honestly it depends on your viewpoint and personal play through, but overall neither cared about clementine especially, they both just saw her as a kid who needed protection like any other adult in the group
I'm not so sure, in every conversation she just seemed to be so negative, all the time. In terms of a being a leader, she kind of falls on the super 'practical' side, which is best described as Shane from the TV show put it, "It's simple math, how much food, how much ammo, how much fuel. Sophia only matters in that she doesn't drag the rest of us down"(Similar to how Lilly didn't want Ben or Mr. Parker(determinant) in the group.
Kenny, on the other hand, seemed more like Rick in the way that he led, still trying to hold onto humanity, while continually being forced to do more and more terrible things.
Honestly, this is one of the main reasons I don't like Lilly, along with the fact that her default attitude seems to be negative.
I appreciate Kenny as much as I do Lilly, but Kenny is to focused on his family, and as a leader, that turns into a burden. Lilly in the same boat with Larry, though, but she still managed to keep her head (or tries to).
None of us know if he is going to return or not.Clem's "I thought you were dead" could be related to Christa,Omid,or any other character that might receive a "dead" status in Episode 2.After all,its just a teaser,and we all know how "teasers" in S1 turned up,with most of the said lines missing and previewed scenes playing completely differently.
I can understand people wanting Kenny/Lilly to return,but starting wars based on pure speculation is not a good way to begin.
From what I've seen, the "Lilly Fans" have been much more hurtful and insulting than any "Kenny Fans" so far.
Reading the posts so far and..... yep. Rational got thrown out the window as soon as Shaundi showed up.
They're the same damn character, and I don't like either of them. It just bugs me how people like one over the other.
First of all, thank you for creating this thread. Its nice to have a thread focusing on rational arguments.
Here's the reason why I like Kenny more than Lilly.
If you side with Kenny 100% of the way, he will treat you like you are family (he will even say you and Clem are the only family he has left if you choose to hide the bite in episode 4).
If you side against him in every single decision, he will mostly be a massive asshole, but will occasionally do something nice ( He always saves your life in episode 1, even if you save Shawn and side with Larry. Additionally, his motivational speech in episode 5 always ends with, "so lets figure out a way out of here and get that little girl", meaning that he had decided to help you save Clem, even if he refused to help you back in episode 4).
If you side against Lilly in every single decision, she will be a massive bitch to you (admittedly, for some very good reasons. Killing her father would definitely put someone on your shit list).
However, if you side with Lilly on every single decision, she will be nice to you for a while. Then, she will reveal your past to the rest of the group in an attempt to save her ass. Furthermore, if you let her back into the RV, and accept her offer to leave with her in the RV, she will abandon you and Clem with the rest of the group, including Kenny, will probably hate your guts at this point.
That's why I like Kenny better than Lilly.
My main argument for why Kenny is a total dick and Lilly is good leader and decent person is how they react if you agree or disagree and help them.
If you completely agree with Kenny all the time, he will be nice and will look out for you. Disagreeing with Lilly makes her a bit upset with you, which is understandable, but you are able to continue to have adult conversations with her.
Completely agreeing with Lilly gives you a good working relationship with her. Disagreeing with Kenny causes him to berate you and deny any possibility of him being wrong.
Ive argued before that Kenny isnt a real friend, he despises you if you DISAGREE with him, theres no way for him to like you if you dont kiss his boots all day long. Friends disagree and try to find the best solution for everyone, not follow one autocrat thats going to start bitching if everything isnt done his way. Lilly is at least still reasonable if you disagree with her.
I also like to bring forward 2 very comparable scenarios with Kenny and Lilly. After you get Larry his nitro from the pharmacy, Lilly is appreciative and thanks you for the help, no matter what you say to her. Looking at Kenny though, Lee figures out how to escape the barn, kills Danny (thus freeing Kenny), saves Katjaa and then Duck. Thats not enough for Kenny by the way, it doesnt convince him that youre looking out for Kat and Duck if you didnt murder Larry. He argues that HE saved them by murdering Larry. I dont know, but i cant trust anyone thats that diluted.
Lastly, Ill point out some other bits of dialogue that really makes Kenny's personality shine. When you first get back to the motel in Ep2, you have the option to say Lilly's right, Kenny's right, or it doesnt matter. If you choose Lilly, he berates you and says "way to pick sides Lee" sarcastically, but if you choose no one, he STILL berates you, but for NOT picking sides. Lilly is just angry at the situation and ends up handing you the food angry (nothing really directed at you though), or if you agree with her, calmly.
His contradiction really shows that hes only after your vote and he only hangs around you because he believes he cant protect himself and his family by himself.
You know what really grinds my gears? You TWD fanbase! YOU!
Personally, I don't view that as an excuse, I see it as
"Crap.. Lee is probably going to tell Kenny that I'm free." thought and then did it because she thought she had no choice then.
In the end, it really doesn't make sense because Lee should have pulled out his gun and tied her up again.
Even if you disagree with Kenny he stills helps Lee go through hell to find Clementine. While agreeing with Lilly gets you what? Nothing because she steals the damn RV and doesn't even take you with her.
funny thing is, I was thinking of making this topic last night and that's pretty much the title I would have given it.
Huh. I remember making a thread almost exactly like that... Was it on our forum, and MP just decided to steal it?
Except how about no. I'm speaking of your point of Kenny not being appreciative of stuff you do for him of course. He thanks you for saving duck and or standing up to Larry at the drug store. He offers to take you with him to the coast, and he saves your ass at the end of episode one regardless of if you helped him with anything. Rather then that the rest your post is your opinion and your allowed to have it. I'd make a minor argument though that because of the stuff that went down and the very begging of EP. 2 that Kenny's patience was pretty thin, although to be fair so was Lilly's, but hey some people handle that kinda stuff better.
I actually don't fully agree with the "abandon" line of thought if you let her take the RV, because it's possible that after Lee left, she thought "oh crap he's gonna tell Kenny" and left.
And yea, I get your line of thought. I personally don't support one over the other.
If we're going to use dialogue, I still think that the line Kenny makes in accordance to Lee telling Kenny that Molly saved his life "Yea, well, what has she done for me lately?" really cinches the idea that Kenny is only nice to those who are nice to him or agree with him.
However, he does ultimately go with Lee to save Clementine and does a self-sacrifice move. Kinda reminds me of Iron Man in the Avengers movie..
KENNY IS TONY STARK
Long post. Guess what?
If you have Kenny's back when it matters, he has yours.
Majority of people who get sour with Kenny think they can not back him or play the middle and that they should reap the benefits of not-picking-sides just because you're a nice guy, but not going out on a limb for anybody else means nobody goes out on a limb for you.
Want to talk about the pharmacy? Ok. Kenny was supportive of getting Larry his medication, even after he threatened his son. Kenny comes back and saves your ass when Larry knocks you flat, even if you're an asshole to him or his family. Quite frankly when he counts on you to take Larry out, you should have his back. If you don't, you're letting him, the group, and Clem down.
Being trapped in a meat locker with the girl you're supposed to take care of with a giant guy who could at any second reanimate and kill all of you calls for taking him out. He had a serious heart attack, he's unconscious, he's not breathing, he doesn't have any medication and you have literally no idea if he'll turn in a minute or in seconds. Kenny's call was totally right if you're not playing video-game good-guy bushido-honor rules which are in no way applicable in that kind of scenario.
What does having Lilly's back get you, besides earfuls of angst-ridden moping?
Oh yeah, she murders either your love-interest and perhaps the most forthright decent person in the group or a solid, harmless dude who's probably the most tech-savvy guy left alive in Georgia. Great.
Actually the right call in that situation would be to have two people holding the salt-lick above Larry's head while someone tries to revive him, and to drop it either when hope of revival is lost or when he turns.
Kenny's call was right, but it was premature. Especially since Larry was just about to wake up when his head was smashed.
You speak as though "going out on a limb" for Kenny is an all-or-nothing venture. You can go out on a limb for him 9/10 times and when you get back he'll still call you out on time number 10.
He bitches me out at the dairy for not jumping to save his son even though Kenny was right the fuck there and I was trying to help the guy trapped under the goddamn tractor (whom his son ran over with btw). And all of this after I talked him out of being down on himself for running away from Shawn instead of putting his son down and helping the poor bastard.
Then, after I talked him out of running away from his son's condition and volunteered to mercy kill Duck because he didn't know if he had the balls to, he has the nerve to refuse to help me look for Clem when she was kidnapped because I didn't have his back EVERY goddamn second. He somewhat redeems himself at the end but Kenny was a petty bitch for a good long while in my game.
6'4. 300 lbs guy.
Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Clem are in the room.
Can't count on Lilly to hold her Dad down to smash his head. Clem can't help. That leaves Lee and Kenny.
If reanimation happens suddenly and without warning, which for all they know it could, they're pretty much screwed. One little bite in that confined space and then there's going to be two.
In giving him CPR, mouth-to-mouth would probably be out of the question.
The chances of someone in Larry's condition surviving that are slim to none.
There's really no way to assure safety except to get Larry's head smashed as quickly as possible.
Well him either refusing to look for clem or not is based on what choice you say to him in that situation. I think you have to say something like "Clem is family" or something like that. Then he agrees no matter what.
Except that if you come to the point where you agree to go with Lilly even after the Doug/Carley situation, it's because you like her so much you are ready to leave the rest of the group for her and consider her your best friend in the group.
Seeing how the game forced you to take sides, if you are such best friends with her at this point, it means you've already become enemies with Kenny.
Which makes your assumption pretty illogical : this very situation in the game implies you have reached such a point of support for Lilly that you automatically have already faced Kenny's anger a lot of times, and that means Lilly wouldn't have any reasons to believe you would tell Kenny....
...And every reason to take you and Clem in instead of backstabbing you both first opportunity she gets.
Good men don't need to be talked into doing the right thing.
You can choose to come along with Lilly even if you act like a dick to her.
bites don't convert someone that fast though. The person bitten has to die first.
He wasn't right there as far as you know, and you were going to let his son die.
And later on in that episode he ran back into a walker-infested drugstore to save your life when Larry tried to kill you.
You should thank him profusely and have his back when it matters like in that meat locker when Larry's number comes up.
If you said the "Clem's family" line he'll come with you to help, because family's what matters to him.
I think this is a case of you not understanding the powerful alpha musk mentality of a panhandle Floridian.
In my game(btw, there was one time when I didn't side with Kenny), I told them not to go with me, and Kenny refused to let Lee go on his own, saying that Lee and Clem were the only family he had left.
Really, that moment there kind of made him one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise, so I can get how some people don't like him, but he's got my be my number 3 favorite character ever.
I've heard that before, but after 3 months of always agreeing with her, you'd think she would be able to trust him. I mean, Lee just let her stay in the RV after killing one of his close friends (applies to either Carley or Doug, although in different ways), and tried to save her father even though Larry knew about his past. You'd think it would be worth the risk to repay him after all that time.
No yeah, that's completely fair. We had different experiences with the character and I don't fault anyone for liking him based on their personal experience with him. But my personal experience paints a far different picture of the man and it's not a pretty one.
Actually, if you don't save her dad, she says something along the lines of:
"I had you while you were looking at the front of the RV. I know you did what you did for a reason, and part of me understands. But the other part sees you with your back turned and knows I could have killed you. I'm leaving."
Helping her with Larry is the only choice that matters to her in this regard.
But remember the band directer whose leg got cut off? He turned in about a minute after dying. If Larry was dead, and they had a lot of reasons to believe he was, Kenny made the right call.
Also, when you see Larry move, that could have been the start of reanimation. Its deliberately vague. We will never know.
And for the record, I tried to save Larry.
Oh, well, I didn't kill Larry but I always supported Kenny beforehand, and hell afterwards, besides stealing from the car, I still agreed with Kenny about getting out of the Motor Inn.
I think the decision of trying to save or kill Larry changes more things than it should have.
I saw him. Right there. And I wasn't "letting his son die," I was helping the guy who was clearly injured and unable to free his leg. The guy who had already saved me and Clem by getting us away from an approaching hoard of zombies. I had only just met Kenny and Duck like 20 minutes before. I didn't owe him anything. I owed Shawn.
I did "have his back" when Larry collapsed. I also defended his son when Larry was saying that he was bitten, gave him one of 4 extremely scarce food items, saved him when the zombie grabbed his leg at the beginning of Episode 4, and shot the zombie that was attacking his wife and kid (didn't really save the kid, but definitely saved the wife).
The fact that he questioned my loyalty and said that I "looked out for myself more often than my friends" after all the shit I did for him and his family makes him a bad friend. Powerful alpha musk be damned.
Even if Lee always agreed with her (and my Lee didn't and I had the option to try to stay with her), she was so paranoid "The list of people I can trust gets lower every day!" and you know, Lee may have been the last person on her list.