The Rational Discussion of the Negatives and Positives of Lilly and Kenny

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  • It's not like you have to trick or guilt him into it, or promising him anything.

    Being moved by the idea of "family", for the sake of this idea alone, is proof deep down you're a good man.

    A bad man would still not have given two shits.

    Besides he doesn't need any word from anybody to decide to save Christa on his own at the peril of his own life.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    Good men don't need to be talked into doing the right thing.

  • I don't think that matters. A bite is a death sentence, unless you can quickly amputate the bitten limb. Amputation was not an option in the meat locker. So, whoever was bitten would have died. If he had reanimated, I'm not sure they could have stopped him. He'd already proven he can kick both Kenny and Lee's asses, Clem is obviously not strong enough to do anything, and I don't think Lilly would be able to gather her wits soon enough to make a difference, seeing as it was her father they were dealing with. I just didn't think it was worth the risk, given EVERYTHING that had conspired against the group up until that point.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    bites don't convert someone that fast though. The person bitten has to die first.

  • Actually, it's totally unpredictable. It could takes days or seconds.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    bites don't convert someone that fast though. The person bitten has to die first.

  • Too bad, wrong call, should've picked the kid of the guy with the boat and the truck, what can I tell ya?

    I had his back and I got the "what kind of a friend would I be if I didn't have yours now" speech from him when it came time to mount up. Didn't even have to ask.

    I think our bro-musk must've mingled in the hot Savannah air to make a perfect chemistry.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    I saw him. Right there. And I wasn't "letting his son die," I was helping the guy who was clearly injured and unable to free his leg. The guy

  • Pay close attention to what he says after you give him the family speech. "You were there for Kat and Duck when it mattered most I guess." It wasn't the mere fact that Clem was my family that persuaded him to help me. It was that bringing up "family" made him remember that I had helped his. He wasn't doing it out of the kindness of his heart. it was just tit-for-tat. That's pretty much guilt-tripping.

    It's not like you have to trick or guilt him into it, or promising him anything. Being moved by the idea of "family", for the sake of this

  • But the bite didn't kill Lee for a while.

    Dropping the saltlick at the first sound of his mouth while his heart's not beating would avoid most of the risk of him actually doing anything anyway.

    Both before the band director's attack and the dead cop coming back they audibly groaned. The reaction was slow enough that they could have easily stopped Larry before he actually reacted physically.

    Rock114 posted: »

    I don't think that matters. A bite is a death sentence, unless you can quickly amputate the bitten limb. Amputation was not an option in the m

  • I feel like Telltale maybe should've given people a little more wiggle room with supporting Kenny, but I'll never really know if it was necessary because for me and all of my friends, Kenny supported Lee. And trust me, at least a few of us didn't support Kenny 100%. For example, I shot Beatrice in the beginning of Episode 3 when Kenny said to leave her. He still had my back.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    I saw him. Right there. And I wasn't "letting his son die," I was helping the guy who was clearly injured and unable to free his leg. The guy

  • but in the games and comics they come back looking like they've been dead a while. really pale with cataract eyes.

    they're like wraiths.

    Michael7123 posted: »

    But remember the band directer whose leg got cut off? He turned in about a minute after dying. If Larry was dead, and they had a lot of reason

  • edited January 2014

    Eh, guy with farm >>> guy with truck and boat which never seemed to materialize anyway. Too bad Hershel decided to kick me and Clem out for Kenny's mistake anyway. Crotchety son of a bitch...

    Lemoncakes posted: »

    Too bad, wrong call, should've picked the kid of the guy with the boat and the truck, what can I tell ya? I had his back and I got the "wha

  • I tried to save Duck because he was just a kid while Shawn seemed to be a young adult.

    What didn't make sense to me is that they didn't give us the option to try to save Shawn after Kenny went to save his kid.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    I saw him. Right there. And I wasn't "letting his son die," I was helping the guy who was clearly injured and unable to free his leg. The guy

  • I don't really consider that "supporting Kenny" because it wasn't really something that Lee did for him. I think that's more "agreeing with his deeply immoral plan to use a woman's terror and agony as bait to try and get a few more supply items."

    Zyphon posted: »

    I feel like Telltale maybe should've given people a little more wiggle room with supporting Kenny, but I'll never really know if it was necess

  • did he tell Lilly about you killing Beatrice? In an angry voice?

    "Yea, well we wouldn't be arguing about the medicine and supplies situation if Lee didn't fuck up!"

    Zyphon posted: »

    I feel like Telltale maybe should've given people a little more wiggle room with supporting Kenny, but I'll never really know if it was necess

  • Oh yeah! That! Fuck him for that, too!

    Jexx21 posted: »

    did he tell Lilly about you killing Beatrice? In an angry voice? "Yea, well we wouldn't be arguing about the medicine and supplies situation if Lee didn't fuck up!"

  • Considering Kenny fans don't have any solid evidence that he is back or should even be in discussion here, thats not a great comment

    Zyphon posted: »

    Until you support your opinion at all, I'm going to dislike your comment.

  • They also jumped up so quick nobody could react. If the dead cops legs had worked, Lee might have been dead right there. If Lee hadn't been standing right in front of Katjaa when Travis/David reanimated, she'd be dead. Larry could easily have done the same, which would have resulted in SOMEONE being bitten and dying.

    While the bite took awhile to kill Lee, it still killed him. There's no magic cure for a bite. You can only remove it, and hope you did it fast enough. Lee waited FAR too long to cut it off. And what, exactly, could they have used to remove any bitten extremities? By the time they managed to find anything suitable to amputate a limb, if the bite had even ben ON a limb, and not the neck or chest, it would have been too late. At least one person was guaranteed to die if Larry came back, and probably more.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    But the bite didn't kill Lee for a while. Dropping the saltlick at the first sound of his mouth while his heart's not beating would avoid m

  • edited January 2014

    I don't agree with how you see things, but what can I say, at this point we're both trying to read in his mind and guess his personal motivations and we obviously have very different ideas because of our own perceptions of Kenny.

    I don't think the family speech moved him out of guilt because I have a positive perception of him ; you think he changes his mind out of guilt because you have a negative perception of him.

    And I think this all goes back to the first play.
    The first time I ever played, I went for Duck in the farm. Kenny was grateful and it encouraged me to support him further. I stood for Duck in the pharmacy without compromising with Larry, so me and Kenny bonded even more, and so on...

    As soon as I had to decide between siding with Kenny or Lilly, I sided with him since we were already friends. So on the opposite I had Lilly's ugly side, and gradually came to hate her.

    Kenny my pal and Lilly the bitch, these were my first impressions and they stayed forever. In later playthroughs I never really felt like helping Lilly even for the sake of curiosity, because I remembered how she made me feel that first time.

    So I would say that the first play is the one that matters the most for everyone, and the most crucial moment is perhaps at the farm when you chose between Shawn and Duck, because it leads to a string of reactions and feelings.

    Who knows what I would think of Kenny if I had gone for Shawn that day and then experienced a first reproach from Kenny that I would certainly have felt unfair.

    I still think there are some objective reasons for which Kenny is when all is said and done a better person than Lilly (1: to me the murder of Carley doesn't compare with Larry's situation ; 2: also the fact that if both Lilly and Kenny will be assholes at their worst, being Lilly's best ally will not prevent her to betray you after all, whereas having Kenny as best ally means you have a friend who will follow you into hell)
    but when it comes to guess their intentions there comes a significant part of subjective impression that depends on your first, canon play.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    Pay close attention to what he says after you give him the family speech. "You were there for Kat and Duck when it mattered most I guess." It

  • I don't buy it. They groaned long enough before they actually started to move that dropping a saltlick right as it happened would have worked easy.

    Rock114 posted: »

    They also jumped up so quick nobody could react. If the dead cops legs had worked, Lee might have been dead right there. If Lee hadn't been st

  • edited January 2014

    I wouldn't argue that Lilly was a better person than Kenny. I would only say that she had more reason not to be a good person than Kenny did.

    Lilly had an overbearing father who constantly pushed her into taking charge and "controlling" her people. Notice at the drug store how she timidly tried to argue that Duck was "just a boy" and how Larry immediate casts her opinion aside. But she loved him all the same because he was her father and because she knew how much pain he'd been through. Lilly had a lot of complex feelings mixed up with Larry and when he died to suddenly and brutally at the hands of people she depended on, all those feelings suddenly had nowhere to go. I understood why she snapped at that point. It doesn't at all excuse what she does later but it makes her more sympathetic to me.

    Kenny, on the other hand, had a loving wife whom he admits in episode 5 urged him every day to treat Lee and the others less harshly than he did. His behavior wasn't quite as shitty as Lilly's was but any shitty behavior he had could only have been attributed to his own personality (at least up until their deaths).

    I don't agree with how you see things, but what can I say, at this point we're both trying to read in his mind and guess his personal motivati

  • I saved Duck my first playthrough and didn't kill Larry. Sure, he was an ass, but he might still be alive.

    I don't agree with how you see things, but what can I say, at this point we're both trying to read in his mind and guess his personal motivati

  • edited January 2014

    Good men don't need to be talked into doing the right thing.

    All the more reason why I think Kenny will return in a more antagonistic role in S2 (if he returns at all). If we're to assume the zombie apocalypse brings out the worst in people, Kenny will probably be a complete animal by this point - although I like to hope some of his behaviour could be modified/tampered by his relationship with Lee in S1. Those saved imports have to count for something, damn it!

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    Good men don't need to be talked into doing the right thing.

  • But then Lily rats Lees secret out, so they are as bad as each other.
    Im a kenny fan, but I actually liked Lily too

  • Actually, Telltale said that Kenny's fate would "be explored" in season 2. So yeah, that is enough solid evidence that something will happen with him.

    Considering Kenny fans don't have any solid evidence that he is back or should even be in discussion here, thats not a great comment

  • You misread, I said that I did shoot the woman, meaning I went against Kenny. And still, he was Lee's best friend and has his back and treated Lee and clem like his own family.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    I don't really consider that "supporting Kenny" because it wasn't really something that Lee did for him. I think that's more "agreeing with his deeply immoral plan to use a woman's terror and agony as bait to try and get a few more supply items."

  • I still got a good number of supplies, so no. Everyone was happy. Ish. At least, I didn't get that scenario.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    did he tell Lilly about you killing Beatrice? In an angry voice? "Yea, well we wouldn't be arguing about the medicine and supplies situation if Lee didn't fuck up!"

  • Larry saves your life at the motor inn if you give him the axe and Carley is dead, does that mean you should just give up on Kenny's family and assume theyre dead and save Larry because he saved your life?

    Lemoncakes posted: »

    He wasn't right there as far as you know, and you were going to let his son die. And later on in that episode he ran back into a walker-inf

  • I know. I was just saying that I didn't really consider that decision as siding with or against Kenny because it didn't really directly impact him.

    But think about what you're saying. You think that easing someone's terrible suffering at the cost of a few energy bars counted against you in Kenny's book. Doesn't that strike you as being monumentally fucked up?

    Zyphon posted: »

    You misread, I said that I did shoot the woman, meaning I went against Kenny. And still, he was Lee's best friend and has his back and treated Lee and clem like his own family.

  • Larry saves your life at the motor inn if you give him the axe and Carley is dead

    That statement contradicts itself....

    Apples posted: »

    Larry saves your life at the motor inn if you give him the axe and Carley is dead, does that mean you should just give up on Kenny's family and assume theyre dead and save Larry because he saved your life?

  • I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree then. Perhaps I'm just a tad more pragmatic than you are (I'm not trying to be a smart ass/insulting by saying this). Let's just hope that the two of US are never in that type of situation.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    I don't buy it. They groaned long enough before they actually started to move that dropping a saltlick right as it happened would have worked easy.

  • If Kenny and Lily had a baby together, it would be Leatherface.

  • Great post,from u and OP.

    Retneug posted: »

    I'll bite, TC. After all, if this community doesn't eventually succeed at a rational Kenny/Lilly discussion without being at eachother's throa

  • edited January 2014

    ? In my play through of the game Lily never calls Lee out as being a murder.

    But then Lily rats Lees secret out, so they are as bad as each other. Im a kenny fan, but I actually liked Lily too

  • I think Lilly's attitude later in S1 had more to due with the fact that she was originally meant to be Comic Lilly and thus Telltale had to get her to leave the group so she could get to Woodbury. Who knows how Lilly could have ended up if she was meant to be an original character at first instead of being a comic character which ended up being retconned later.

  • I loved both these characters, afterall, everyone makes mistakes, I really couldn't expect them being perfect. Just the fact Lilly shot Carley is the only thing that i wish hadn't happen and was one of the most stupid decisions she coulda've made.

  • Grrr!!! angry voices!!! grrrr angry comment!!! grrrrrrrrrr angry post! Trollolol

    X made this thread gud

    Y made this thread bad!

    Did i just sum up what i am reading?

    Mostly.

  • you are incorrect, that is indeed what happens

    Larry saves your life at the motor inn if you give him the axe and Carley is dead That statement contradicts itself....

  • I got a good number of supplies as well, in fact, when I said that we got what was left, Kenny said "which was a lot, actually," and he still said that I screwed up and would have got more because I shot beatrice.

    Also when I was done collecting I got the message "there are a lot of supplies in your backpack"

    Zyphon posted: »

    I still got a good number of supplies, so no. Everyone was happy. Ish. At least, I didn't get that scenario.

  • I don't know, there were times when Lee and Kenny fought, but I never got that part, and he still supported me, and refused to let Lee go on his own to look for Clementine.

    I guess we just had different games, and therefore have a different view on the character.

    Jexx21 posted: »

    I got a good number of supplies as well, in fact, when I said that we got what was left, Kenny said "which was a lot, actually," and he still

  • Yes, but it's highly determinant. I doubt many people had that, as the majority saved Carley, and then gave the axe to Mark.

    Apples posted: »

    you are incorrect, that is indeed what happens

  • If that happened, then it wouldn't be Lilly. It would be an entirely different character if she was never meant to be Lilly form the comics.

    Smoughstein posted: »

    I think Lilly's attitude later in S1 had more to due with the fact that she was originally meant to be Comic Lilly and thus Telltale had to ge

  • Not really, some peopel are actually managing to be rational here. Which is a surprise. It's just a few people that are dragging the thread down and resorting to insults and are in general being negative in rude. I suggest you just ignore them.

    aaron1290 posted: »

    Grrr!!! angry voices!!! grrrr angry comment!!! grrrrrrrrrr angry post! Trollolol X made this thread gud Y made this thread bad! Did i just sum up what i am reading? Mostly.

This discussion has been closed.