There's one thing i fear though, that she might try to sacrifice herself later because of her guilt, thus going on a suicide run or something. I really hope it won't come to that...
There's one thing i fear though, that she might try to sacrifice herself later because of her guilt, thus going on a suicide run or something. I really hope it won't come to that...
But that could be anyone. Those are not direct things. It wasn't Clementine's fault she was kidnapped. Blaming the victim doesn't make sense to me. She's just a kid. By that logic Lee shouldn't have chosen to take care of her from the start. So then technically its his own fault for meeting her?
Well, yes. But the whole thing i wanted to point out is that it appears that the majority of the fanbase only blames Ben for everything and stil sees Clementine as a saint. Ben did fuck up, and so did Clementine. And after what they did plenty of stuff went to shit. But i forgive them, they're kids, they're scared and they make mistakes. As long as the thought itself was good it's ok.
Also if the other adults wouldn't screw up as well then maybe Lee or Kenny could look out for the kids more, bonding more with them, so they don't make choices or their own. I felt like they did the things they did because they didn't trust the rest of the group to side with them. That this was the only way to make something happen.
Nah, I went back and saved Ben on an alternate profile. My canon save, however, has him dead, and Kenny still kind of a jerk (but a jerk with … morea heart of gold, at least). That WAS a great scene, and Ben DOES admit that he's sorry for what he did. I stopped hating him after the whole belltower deal (when he said to drop him, even before I actually did) but that scene just made me feel sorry for him. Real pity. I still think, however, that he did more damage than Clem. She sure did fuck up with the whole Stranger deal, pretty bad, too, but Ben... to say he takes it Up To Eleven is sugar coating it.
"I think this whole thing is rather interesting actually, people blame the fuck out of Ben when he made bad choices but completely ignores that Clementine has put them into much worse shit then Ben did. Now Ben was acting on his own, not asking for advice or anything, which was really stupid, but i could still see why he did the things he did. I still blamed him for Ducks death, but nobody elses. Clementine has caused/indirectly caused the death of several other people. Once again i can still see why she did what she did, but now the actions are in my mind actually worse than what Ben did. As long as people realize that Clem actually caused the death of more people than Ben did, i'm okay. Then we can go into arguments about how i dislike the whole playing as protagonist that is a child and how a huge amount of the fanbase would gladly stop playing if Telltale killed off Clementine eventually. These are things that piss me off, but don't get me wrong, i love Clementine and "my" Lee was a supreme caretaker that always tried not to hurt her while still preparing her for what would come."
Which deaths did Clem cause indirectly? Clem can't even be blamed for Lee getting bitten. She needed to see her parents. In my playthrough my Lee told her we would look for them when they got to Savannah and then he lied and told her we would look for them before leaving. If he agreed to look for them as soon as it was safe to do so or while Kenny was working on the boat she wouldn't have ran off .It's Lee's fault she ran off, it wasn't her fault he was bitten.
As for Ben he nearly got Molly killed by taking the axe out of the door, He got Bree killed and nearly got the rest of the group killed to clear his conscience when he needed to get of his chest what he did in Macon despite Lee warning him now was not the time. If Kenny died it would be his fault because he wanted Kenny to stay with him in the ally so he didn't die alone, He got Duck,Kat and Carly killed because he was secretly doing deals with the bandits and didn't even alert the group the bandits were coming when he was keeping watch on the RV, He got Chuck killed because he ran off and nearly got Clem killed so Chuck had to sacrifice himself to buy the group more time to escape. He single handedly destroyed the group from within, turning brother against brother. He sat and watched Lilly and Carly arguing and fighting over something he was guilty off to save his own arse. Ben deserves the hate he gets. What makes it worst is that he never redeemed himself once. Even if someone could find a way of blaming Clem for someone's death indirectly those occaisions would be less than the occaisions where she saved someone or the group all together. She saves Molly by shooting the walker in the school if she comes along, she saves Omid from the walker at the manor if she doesn't go to the school, she helps the group survive the overrun drugstore by helping Lee barricade the door with the cane,she helps the group get out of the meatlocker,she saves lee by giving him the hammer when he is being attacked by the walker in her house. So though Ben's haters are justified hate for Clem is not.
I think this whole thing is rather interesting actually, people blame the fuck out of Ben when he made bad choices but completely ignores that… more Clementine has put them into much worse shit then Ben did. Now Ben was acting on his own, not asking for advice or anything, which was really stupid, but i could still see why he did the things he did. I still blamed him for Ducks death, but nobody elses. Clementine has caused/indirectly caused the death of several other people. Once again i can still see why she did what she did, but now the actions are in my mind actually worse than what Ben did. As long as people realize that Clem actually caused the death of more people than Ben did, i'm okay. Then we can go into arguments about how i dislike the whole playing as protagonist that is a child and how a huge amount of the fanbase would gladly stop playing if Telltale killed off Clementine eventually. These are things that piss me off, but don't get me wr… [view original content]
Every character did/will do mistakes, Lee was not perfect, Kenny sure was not perfect, Ben was not perfect, Clem is not perfect, If this game had a flawless character, the game would suffer big time in storytelling. Every character is responsible for their own death - Lee died for a walkietalkie, I bet he would have done the same stupid move for a candybar if he was hungry. Kenny might still be alive if you ask my opinion, but then again, maybe not.. Ben was just simply stupid, I got suprised he survived that long. Omid was great, one mistake, BOOM, dead.
I define it as getting out of dangerous situations alone, or doing painful/difficult acts with little help, and not complaining, while getting it done.
She pretty much did that the entire episode!
I suppose she is that way because she is... de-sensitized by what she sees. Spending two years total watching those you love die, nobody but the dead to keep you company, distrust, and struggling for survival. That will do things to a little girl, and it probably forced her to grow up a bit, and as a result, she is de-sensitized by her surroundings.
Erm... I don't hate Season 1 Clem. Nor do I hate Clem in general. I just feel that she was very monotone, and seeing as that made me dislike Duck and Mark, it has a similar effect here.
Why do you think Christa and Omid went into the same bathroom together? Granted i only played it the day it released so my memory could be fuzzy but It was clear whatever they were doing Omid didn't want clem to witness.
But Sophia is still completely fine. (COMIC SPOILERS FOR REST OF POST) She's seen MORE death, MORE destruction than Clem, and she's right around the same time as Clem Clem. She saw her mom try to commit suicide, she saw her mom COMMIT suicide. She saw her adoptive daddy be beaten to death with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. She's still a normal child. Clem has had a cakewalk compared to Sophia.
I suppose she is that way because she is... de-sensitized by what she sees. Spending two years total watching those you love die, nobody but … morethe dead to keep you company, distrust, and struggling for survival. That will do things to a little girl, and it probably forced her to grow up a bit, and as a result, she is de-sensitized by her surroundings.
I'm not familiar with the Comics, but my bet is on that she still was with a group and didn't spend 16 months in the wilderness by herself with only Christa to keep her company... a Christa that has turn bitter. (She spent nearly all of her life after the Apocalypse in the wilderness.)
And you want to compare Clem and Sophia's share of tragedy, here we go then:
Clem hid in a treehouse for who knows how many days without her parents day one.
She witnessed Shawn Greene get eaten alive.
She witnessed Kenny smashing someone's head in.
She witnesses Lee kill the St. Johns (Determent).
She witnesses Carly/Doug get murdered by one of her own group.
She watches Duck go into the woods to be shot and killed.
Katjaa commits suicide.
She is manipulated by The Stranger.
She is kidnapped by The Stranger.
She had to shoot The Stranger in the head even though she is against killing people (determent).
She had to shoot Lee before he turned. (determent)
She watched as Lee became a walker (determent)
But Sophia is still completely fine. (COMIC SPOILERS FOR REST OF POST) She's seen MORE death, MORE destruction than Clem, and she's right arou… morend the same time as Clem Clem. She saw her mom try to commit suicide, she saw her mom COMMIT suicide. She saw her adoptive daddy be beaten to death with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. She's still a normal child. Clem has had a cakewalk compared to Sophia.
That depends on the situation, and the aftermath, in the end, most players would probably pick clem no matter what the situation is, dispite what clem would become, in this world, sacrifices must be made, after all, our job as it stands is to guide and help clem in any and every way we can. Sure, there are many different ways the choice could be difficult, but in the end, we all share the same goal, and that is to help clem, guide her, do everything we can to protect her, by any means. Besides, TTG isnt known for easy decision making, and a choice like that is way to easy.
Picture Lee for example, if your near the end of the season, and you have a chance to insure that lee survives to continue protecting clem, at the expense of someone dieing, 9/10 people will sacrifice the other person and save lee, this i have no doubt.
Killing isnt bad in this world as long as you've got a good reason to do it, and clem has to survive for as long as she can, so that lee's efforts where not for nothing. and becuase lee would do anything, and go through anyone to save her.
Clem has to do what she has to do to survive, no matter the cost, the road ahead is allready bleak, the world is falling apart, and she must be willing to do the unthinkable to survive, and most of all, D.T.A. Dont Trust Anybody.
In this world, knowing who you can and cant trust, staying on your guard and being ready for anything, can make all the difference, in the world.
I see what you're saying, but if it comes to a choice like that, it's no doubt going to be with people Clem has grown to trust and care about throughout the season. Lee fought so hard to protect her because she was good. That can't change.
That depends on the situation, and the aftermath, in the end, most players would probably pick clem no matter what the situation is, dispite w… morehat clem would become, in this world, sacrifices must be made, after all, our job as it stands is to guide and help clem in any and every way we can. Sure, there are many different ways the choice could be difficult, but in the end, we all share the same goal, and that is to help clem, guide her, do everything we can to protect her, by any means. Besides, TTG isnt known for easy decision making, and a choice like that is way to easy.
Picture Lee for example, if your near the end of the season, and you have a chance to insure that lee survives to continue protecting clem, at the expense of someone dieing, 9/10 people will sacrifice the other person and save lee, this i have no doubt.
Killing isnt bad in this world as long as you've got a good reason to do it, and clem has to survive for as long as she ca… [view original content]
I see what you're saying, but if it comes to a choice like that, it's no doubt going to be with people Clem has grown to trust and care about throughout the season. Lee fought so hard to protect her because she was good. That can't change.
Well, when I first started playing, I liked Clem from the start. I still do. Sure, she has made some mistakes, but she is after all just a kid. As for the haters, they can have their opinions. Just as long as they don't thrust them on us Clem lovers.
How can you hate Clementine? She is awesome! Yes she may have indirectly been apart of why some people died but let's not pretend like its all her fault.
Kenny died for example protecting Christa. Lee died not being careful. Omid died being stupid and I liked Omid. I cannot think of one person who died because of Clem besides the Stranger.
Lee and Omid both made mistakes that led to their deaths.
Lee never talked to Clem about what a danger the guy on the radio was. And then as Clem was crying about her parents he puts the radio out for Clem to get and goes to sleep.
And Omid and Christa left Clem on her own to check out the bathroom without checking to see if it was safe or not.
And for people dying as they tried to get through Savannah. The city was going to get over run whether Clem left or not. So they would have still have had to try to navigate through a herd of walkers.
She was an 8 year old girl can't blame her for the failed responsibilities of the adults.
Comments
Oops
You messed up big.
Yea....I'll return to just thinking about these now.
One more thing. Clementine feels guilty about Lee's death and feels responsible for Omids because it was her gun.
There's one thing i fear though, that she might try to sacrifice herself later because of her guilt, thus going on a suicide run or something. I really hope it won't come to that...
I have this terrible feeling that Episode 5 is going to come down to save yourself or save someone else...
O god please no I can't imagine clem dying.
morbid? I though it was an honest and pragmatic option o.O as she explain why she had to kill him.
I couldn't take that either... I just can't shake the feeling that's where it's headed. I hope I'm wrong.
maybe it's different if you shot Lee, but I didn't in my season 1 playthrough. So she answered , "i was too young and too stupid to do anything right"
Yeah it's different. If you kill him she explains that he got bit protecting her and she had to shoot him.
But that could be anyone. Those are not direct things. It wasn't Clementine's fault she was kidnapped. Blaming the victim doesn't make sense to me. She's just a kid. By that logic Lee shouldn't have chosen to take care of her from the start. So then technically its his own fault for meeting her?
Well, yes. But the whole thing i wanted to point out is that it appears that the majority of the fanbase only blames Ben for everything and stil sees Clementine as a saint. Ben did fuck up, and so did Clementine. And after what they did plenty of stuff went to shit. But i forgive them, they're kids, they're scared and they make mistakes. As long as the thought itself was good it's ok.
Also if the other adults wouldn't screw up as well then maybe Lee or Kenny could look out for the kids more, bonding more with them, so they don't make choices or their own. I felt like they did the things they did because they didn't trust the rest of the group to side with them. That this was the only way to make something happen.
"I think this whole thing is rather interesting actually, people blame the fuck out of Ben when he made bad choices but completely ignores that Clementine has put them into much worse shit then Ben did. Now Ben was acting on his own, not asking for advice or anything, which was really stupid, but i could still see why he did the things he did. I still blamed him for Ducks death, but nobody elses. Clementine has caused/indirectly caused the death of several other people. Once again i can still see why she did what she did, but now the actions are in my mind actually worse than what Ben did. As long as people realize that Clem actually caused the death of more people than Ben did, i'm okay. Then we can go into arguments about how i dislike the whole playing as protagonist that is a child and how a huge amount of the fanbase would gladly stop playing if Telltale killed off Clementine eventually. These are things that piss me off, but don't get me wrong, i love Clementine and "my" Lee was a supreme caretaker that always tried not to hurt her while still preparing her for what would come."
Which deaths did Clem cause indirectly? Clem can't even be blamed for Lee getting bitten. She needed to see her parents. In my playthrough my Lee told her we would look for them when they got to Savannah and then he lied and told her we would look for them before leaving. If he agreed to look for them as soon as it was safe to do so or while Kenny was working on the boat she wouldn't have ran off .It's Lee's fault she ran off, it wasn't her fault he was bitten.
As for Ben he nearly got Molly killed by taking the axe out of the door, He got Bree killed and nearly got the rest of the group killed to clear his conscience when he needed to get of his chest what he did in Macon despite Lee warning him now was not the time. If Kenny died it would be his fault because he wanted Kenny to stay with him in the ally so he didn't die alone, He got Duck,Kat and Carly killed because he was secretly doing deals with the bandits and didn't even alert the group the bandits were coming when he was keeping watch on the RV, He got Chuck killed because he ran off and nearly got Clem killed so Chuck had to sacrifice himself to buy the group more time to escape. He single handedly destroyed the group from within, turning brother against brother. He sat and watched Lilly and Carly arguing and fighting over something he was guilty off to save his own arse. Ben deserves the hate he gets. What makes it worst is that he never redeemed himself once. Even if someone could find a way of blaming Clem for someone's death indirectly those occaisions would be less than the occaisions where she saved someone or the group all together. She saves Molly by shooting the walker in the school if she comes along, she saves Omid from the walker at the manor if she doesn't go to the school, she helps the group survive the overrun drugstore by helping Lee barricade the door with the cane,she helps the group get out of the meatlocker,she saves lee by giving him the hammer when he is being attacked by the walker in her house. So though Ben's haters are justified hate for Clem is not.
she isn't Ben, Ben is the only person who can indirectly be involved with deaths and be blamed for them
Every character did/will do mistakes, Lee was not perfect, Kenny sure was not perfect, Ben was not perfect, Clem is not perfect, If this game had a flawless character, the game would suffer big time in storytelling. Every character is responsible for their own death - Lee died for a walkietalkie, I bet he would have done the same stupid move for a candybar if he was hungry. Kenny might still be alive if you ask my opinion, but then again, maybe not.. Ben was just simply stupid, I got suprised he survived that long. Omid was great, one mistake, BOOM, dead.
"Zip it". I love Austin Powers
I love this movie so much.
Geez I was wincing during the stitching scene... Damn that was intense!
Downvoted for divulging one of the Rules of the Internet.
I couldnt help but bust out laughing when i seen that.
Hell, let's blame "Officer" - Idiot wouldn't f...... drive...
"Thats.. not.. going to happen." -Master Chief
But if it comes to that, i have no doubt that i will pick clem, regardless of who the other person is.
I suppose she is that way because she is... de-sensitized by what she sees. Spending two years total watching those you love die, nobody but the dead to keep you company, distrust, and struggling for survival. That will do things to a little girl, and it probably forced her to grow up a bit, and as a result, she is de-sensitized by her surroundings.
Maybe they were... Stitching "I
Lee" blankets and they didn't want Clem getting sad.
Yeah, that is definitely what happened.
But Sophia is still completely fine. (COMIC SPOILERS FOR REST OF POST) She's seen MORE death, MORE destruction than Clem, and she's right around the same time as Clem Clem. She saw her mom try to commit suicide, she saw her mom COMMIT suicide. She saw her adoptive daddy be beaten to death with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. She's still a normal child. Clem has had a cakewalk compared to Sophia.
I'm not familiar with the Comics, but my bet is on that she still was with a group and didn't spend 16 months in the wilderness by herself with only Christa to keep her company... a Christa that has turn bitter. (She spent nearly all of her life after the Apocalypse in the wilderness.)
And you want to compare Clem and Sophia's share of tragedy, here we go then:
Clem hid in a treehouse for who knows how many days without her parents day one.
She witnessed Shawn Greene get eaten alive.
She witnessed Kenny smashing someone's head in.
She witnesses Lee kill the St. Johns (Determent).
She witnesses Carly/Doug get murdered by one of her own group.
She watches Duck go into the woods to be shot and killed.
Katjaa commits suicide.
She is manipulated by The Stranger.
She is kidnapped by The Stranger.
She had to shoot The Stranger in the head even though she is against killing people (determent).
She had to shoot Lee before he turned. (determent)
She watched as Lee became a walker (determent)
That's not even going onto season 2.
But what kind of person would she become if she'd just leave others to die?
Also, thumbs up for quote.
I suspect this is turning out to be some kind of an emma watson thing.
That depends on the situation, and the aftermath, in the end, most players would probably pick clem no matter what the situation is, dispite what clem would become, in this world, sacrifices must be made, after all, our job as it stands is to guide and help clem in any and every way we can. Sure, there are many different ways the choice could be difficult, but in the end, we all share the same goal, and that is to help clem, guide her, do everything we can to protect her, by any means. Besides, TTG isnt known for easy decision making, and a choice like that is way to easy.
Picture Lee for example, if your near the end of the season, and you have a chance to insure that lee survives to continue protecting clem, at the expense of someone dieing, 9/10 people will sacrifice the other person and save lee, this i have no doubt.
Killing isnt bad in this world as long as you've got a good reason to do it, and clem has to survive for as long as she can, so that lee's efforts where not for nothing. and becuase lee would do anything, and go through anyone to save her.
Clem has to do what she has to do to survive, no matter the cost, the road ahead is allready bleak, the world is falling apart, and she must be willing to do the unthinkable to survive, and most of all, D.T.A. Dont Trust Anybody.
In this world, knowing who you can and cant trust, staying on your guard and being ready for anything, can make all the difference, in the world.
I see what you're saying, but if it comes to a choice like that, it's no doubt going to be with people Clem has grown to trust and care about throughout the season. Lee fought so hard to protect her because she was good. That can't change.
Also, a half-life ish quote was intended at the end. :P
Well, when I first started playing, I liked Clem from the start. I still do. Sure, she has made some mistakes, but she is after all just a kid. As for the haters, they can have their opinions. Just as long as they don't thrust them on us Clem lovers.
How can you hate Clementine? She is awesome! Yes she may have indirectly been apart of why some people died but let's not pretend like its all her fault.
Kenny died for example protecting Christa. Lee died not being careful. Omid died being stupid and I liked Omid. I cannot think of one person who died because of Clem besides the Stranger.
Lee and Omid both made mistakes that led to their deaths.
Lee never talked to Clem about what a danger the guy on the radio was. And then as Clem was crying about her parents he puts the radio out for Clem to get and goes to sleep.
And Omid and Christa left Clem on her own to check out the bathroom without checking to see if it was safe or not.
And for people dying as they tried to get through Savannah. The city was going to get over run whether Clem left or not. So they would have still have had to try to navigate through a herd of walkers.
She was an 8 year old girl can't blame her for the failed responsibilities of the adults.
Toon Link.
That was less than clear xxD
Yeah, and why it had a conveniently placed piece of cartboard on top of it.
Lazy storytelling I guess. But nothing to get upset about.
Yeah, it's a great game. The writing certainly beats most other games out there.
(I'm sorry about the avatar, just trying to face my worst fears.)
are there clan haters? where do you even play twd for -.-??
Second of all, its ben who fked everything up.