Omid: If you want to survive you would all go into the bathroom TOGETHER as a group.. not leave clementine alone. Lee: Poor guy should of kept an eye on her more and monitored that radio...but you cant argue that.. its a major part of the game that had to happen Kenny: Could of shot ben and escape from the walkers with lee but he had to do what was right and stayed with ben and all three of them could of lifted up Christa with the pole avoiding kenny going down there.
None of it would of happened if clem ran away.. but it also would of never happened if there was no crazy guy on the radio looking for revenge.. its his fault.
It's quite easy to see why the fanbase thinks that and it goes beyond just viewing Clem as a "saint". Firstly, blaming Clementine for the deaths that occurred because the Stranger took her is just idiotic. You might as well take it all the way back to episode 2 and say it was Kenny's fault or Lee's fault, depending on who took the food. And then take it back further and say the Stranger is truly to blame because of his own failings and mistakes. It is not Clementine's doing that she was KIDNAPPED. She trusted the wrong person, yes, but she was eight years old and swayed by his promises. And again, the Stranger's grudge was due to what either Lee or Kenny did. To pin it on her is to dishonestly sway events in Ben's favor.
Compare all that to Ben, whose own actions made things worse. He could have easily defused the situation with the bandits by telling the group what had transpired, but instead made things worse by stealing and keeping it a secret, putting lives in danger even if the bandits didn't attack. Even if it was for his "friend", he was a moron to believe the bandits were ever telling the truth. In slight fairness to Ben, I don't blame him entirely for what happened to Katjaa and Duck when the bandits actually attacked, since like the Stranger, those were the actions of the bandits alone. However, he still had some hand in it, unintentionally. He also had some hand in Doug/Carley's deaths too, but again, I can understand his fear of being abandoned, so I tend to go easy on him there too.
Not that it matters, since Ben fucked up even more afterwards. Abandoning Clementine to the walkers is what led to Chuck getting separated from the group, leading to his death, and could very well have killed Clementine too if it wasn't for Chuck. Taking the hatchet out of the door was the direct cause of Brie dying, putting everyone's lives in danger, and Molly possibly getting separated from the group as well. To make matters worse, and this is slightly off the main topic but bears mentioning, despite all that he does, the little bastard goes on to get indignant when Lee doesn't fully trust him. It's like Ben just doesn't acknowledge the problems he causes and thinks he deserves more trust than he's worked for. Clementine never defends her actions with the Stranger, even though only a very small part of the blame lies with her, as I pointed out above.
Long post, but some of the responses (not just yours) I'm reading on why Clementine deserves as much or even more blame than Ben are starting to get on my nerves. I understand not worshiping at the altar of Clementine, but that doesn't mean people have to manufacture BS to put her on Ben's level of idiocy.
Well, yes. But the whole thing i wanted to point out is that it appears that the majority of the fanbase only blames Ben for everything and st… moreil sees Clementine as a saint. Ben did fuck up, and so did Clementine. And after what they did plenty of stuff went to shit. But i forgive them, they're kids, they're scared and they make mistakes. As long as the thought itself was good it's ok.
Also if the other adults wouldn't screw up as well then maybe Lee or Kenny could look out for the kids more, bonding more with them, so they don't make choices or their own. I felt like they did the things they did because they didn't trust the rest of the group to side with them. That this was the only way to make something happen.
Well, that's assuming they did go past it. Maybe they went the other way, like the Stranger did when he first was standing outside the gates, watching Lee like a damn creeper? :P
That walker that bit Lee may have been a "lurker", the kind of walker that lies in a sort of "sleep" state until food appears, causing it to react. Those are an established part of the TWD canon. It might also explain why it didn't react when the walkie talkie started emitting static. My mind goes to the walker in the TV show that bites Hershel's leg. They were making noise, but it didn't move until he got close enough.
Lol, I find it a little funny when people say a kid made mistakes. Man, adults make some very stupid big and bad mistakes as well, even when it comes to dangerous situations. So how can you judge a 9/11-year old kid for making some stupid mistakes?
Lol, I find it a little funny when people say a kid made mistakes. Man, adults make some very stupid big and bad mistakes as well, even when it comes to dangerous situations. So how can you judge a 9/11-year old kid for making some stupid mistakes?
I think Clem's one and only weakness was her parents, and the Stranger preyed on that. Smart as she is, that was probably the only thing you could have used against her, so I just can't blame her. In the case of Omid's death though, I think she was sloppy and that had terrible consequences. Still, she was distracted for ten seconds and Omid was supposed to be watching the door, not to mention carrying a gun.
To me, Clem is making the same kind of mistakes that most little kids make. Hell, the kinds of mistakes a lot of us have probably made in our lives. Letting our guard down, trusting the wrong people, etc. A lot of times you make these mistakes when you're younger and then you know better the next time. The problem is, she's now living in a world where those mistakes can get you or the people around you killed.
Also, she went with the stranger only after it became clear to her that Lee had no intention of going looking for her parents. Obviously this was because Lee had heard the answering machine messages and was pretty certain what had happened to them. But Clementine didn't know that, and Lee couldn't tell her.
People also have to remember, Clementine is a child. In her mind, her parents were still alive. It wasn't that she was hoping they were alive, or there was a chance they were alive ... they WERE alive. I don't think the idea of them being dead had really even entered her mind. And then here comes a man saying that they are with him. Was she naive? Yes. But how many of us were wise to the ways of the world at age 8? (OK, technically 9 by that time).
I think Clem's one and only weakness was her parents, and the Stranger preyed on that. Smart as she is, that was probably the only thing you c… moreould have used against her, so I just can't blame her. In the case of Omid's death though, I think she was sloppy and that had terrible consequences. Still, she was distracted for ten seconds and Omid was supposed to be watching the door, not to mention carrying a gun.
Whatever,Lee is the best,Clementine is the best,I love this game and I didn't know nothing about Clementine's haters...HOW YOU CAN HATE CLEMENTINE?!HOW?!
Exactly! I don't even know if I'd blame her if she was 25...
I mean, it's one thing if he had given her some random or stupid excuse to lure her out of the house, but that's not the case. I think the fact that the Stranger used her parents to get her out of the house supressed any hope of reasoning on Clem's side. She was just THAT desperate.
Lol yeah isn't it funny how some people in this forum are so ignorant that they just disaree with you and instead of telling you that they don't disagree with you and give you reasons why you might be wrong they just downvote you and tell you you just wrote a pile of shit, People these days Man
Whatever,Lee is the best,Clementine is the best,I love this game and I didn't know nothing about Clementine's haters...HOW YOU CAN HATE CLEMENTINE?!HOW?!
Comments
Nah, she just hasn't put on any make-up yet. All girls look like that without make-up.
Omid: If you want to survive you would all go into the bathroom TOGETHER as a group.. not leave clementine alone.
Lee: Poor guy should of kept an eye on her more and monitored that radio...but you cant argue that.. its a major part of the game that had to happen
Kenny: Could of shot ben and escape from the walkers with lee but he had to do what was right and stayed with ben and all three of them could of lifted up Christa with the pole avoiding kenny going down there.
None of it would of happened if clem ran away.. but it also would of never happened if there was no crazy guy on the radio looking for revenge.. its his fault.
It's quite easy to see why the fanbase thinks that and it goes beyond just viewing Clem as a "saint". Firstly, blaming Clementine for the deaths that occurred because the Stranger took her is just idiotic. You might as well take it all the way back to episode 2 and say it was Kenny's fault or Lee's fault, depending on who took the food. And then take it back further and say the Stranger is truly to blame because of his own failings and mistakes. It is not Clementine's doing that she was KIDNAPPED. She trusted the wrong person, yes, but she was eight years old and swayed by his promises. And again, the Stranger's grudge was due to what either Lee or Kenny did. To pin it on her is to dishonestly sway events in Ben's favor.
Compare all that to Ben, whose own actions made things worse. He could have easily defused the situation with the bandits by telling the group what had transpired, but instead made things worse by stealing and keeping it a secret, putting lives in danger even if the bandits didn't attack. Even if it was for his "friend", he was a moron to believe the bandits were ever telling the truth. In slight fairness to Ben, I don't blame him entirely for what happened to Katjaa and Duck when the bandits actually attacked, since like the Stranger, those were the actions of the bandits alone. However, he still had some hand in it, unintentionally. He also had some hand in Doug/Carley's deaths too, but again, I can understand his fear of being abandoned, so I tend to go easy on him there too.
Not that it matters, since Ben fucked up even more afterwards. Abandoning Clementine to the walkers is what led to Chuck getting separated from the group, leading to his death, and could very well have killed Clementine too if it wasn't for Chuck. Taking the hatchet out of the door was the direct cause of Brie dying, putting everyone's lives in danger, and Molly possibly getting separated from the group as well. To make matters worse, and this is slightly off the main topic but bears mentioning, despite all that he does, the little bastard goes on to get indignant when Lee doesn't fully trust him. It's like Ben just doesn't acknowledge the problems he causes and thinks he deserves more trust than he's worked for. Clementine never defends her actions with the Stranger, even though only a very small part of the blame lies with her, as I pointed out above.
Long post, but some of the responses (not just yours) I'm reading on why Clementine deserves as much or even more blame than Ben are starting to get on my nerves. I understand not worshiping at the altar of Clementine, but that doesn't mean people have to manufacture BS to put her on Ben's level of idiocy.
Well, that's assuming they did go past it. Maybe they went the other way, like the Stranger did when he first was standing outside the gates, watching Lee like a damn creeper? :P
That walker that bit Lee may have been a "lurker", the kind of walker that lies in a sort of "sleep" state until food appears, causing it to react. Those are an established part of the TWD canon. It might also explain why it didn't react when the walkie talkie started emitting static. My mind goes to the walker in the TV show that bites Hershel's leg. They were making noise, but it didn't move until he got close enough.
Just some thoughts.
Badass Clementine
Your invalid is an argument
Lol, I find it a little funny when people say a kid made mistakes. Man, adults make some very stupid big and bad mistakes as well, even when it comes to dangerous situations. So how can you judge a 9/11-year old kid for making some stupid mistakes?
oh my god 9/11 Now it makes sences (SRY)
lol
I think Clem's one and only weakness was her parents, and the Stranger preyed on that. Smart as she is, that was probably the only thing you could have used against her, so I just can't blame her. In the case of Omid's death though, I think she was sloppy and that had terrible consequences. Still, she was distracted for ten seconds and Omid was supposed to be watching the door, not to mention carrying a gun.
To me, Clem is making the same kind of mistakes that most little kids make. Hell, the kinds of mistakes a lot of us have probably made in our lives. Letting our guard down, trusting the wrong people, etc. A lot of times you make these mistakes when you're younger and then you know better the next time. The problem is, she's now living in a world where those mistakes can get you or the people around you killed.
Also, she went with the stranger only after it became clear to her that Lee had no intention of going looking for her parents. Obviously this was because Lee had heard the answering machine messages and was pretty certain what had happened to them. But Clementine didn't know that, and Lee couldn't tell her.
People also have to remember, Clementine is a child. In her mind, her parents were still alive. It wasn't that she was hoping they were alive, or there was a chance they were alive ... they WERE alive. I don't think the idea of them being dead had really even entered her mind. And then here comes a man saying that they are with him. Was she naive? Yes. But how many of us were wise to the ways of the world at age 8? (OK, technically 9 by that time).
Loads RPG xD
I think it is safe to say that if little 8 year old Clem had the wisdom and common sense of a 25 year old then many deaths could have been prevented.
Whatever,Lee is the best,Clementine is the best,I love this game and I didn't know nothing about Clementine's haters...HOW YOU CAN HATE CLEMENTINE?!HOW?!
Exactly! I don't even know if I'd blame her if she was 25...
I mean, it's one thing if he had given her some random or stupid excuse to lure her out of the house, but that's not the case. I think the fact that the Stranger used her parents to get her out of the house supressed any hope of reasoning on Clem's side. She was just THAT desperate.
Lol yeah isn't it funny how some people in this forum are so ignorant that they just disaree with you and instead of telling you that they don't disagree with you and give you reasons why you might be wrong they just downvote you and tell you you just wrote a pile of shit, People these days Man
yeah thats just stupid how can you hate an 8 year old girl?!?!?!?!?!?!?!