Disconnected with the story?
Aside from two flaws which can be corrected rather easily in episode two (lack of interactables and interaction with characters (mainly in the cabin when you come in after fixing your arm)) I think this is shaping up to be a fantastic season and one worthy of following the masterpiece that was season 1. During my second playthrough, though, I realized there was something off about the game, at least for me. During season 1 we played as Lee, and while he did things I doubt I could actually pull off, I became that character. I made the decissions in the situations he was in akin to how I imagine I would if I were in his shoes. For season two I have found I am constantly asking myself "What would Clementine say?" or "How would Clementine react?" and even paused the game twice to think about how she would handle the situation (something I never did in S1). Anyone else feel this underlying problem? Any suggestions about how to get past it and fully enjoy the game?
Comments
This is exactly what I thought when I found out Clem would be the protagonist. Its a lot harder to relate to an 11 year old girl than a grown man thats in over his head.
I dont think this season is as engaging as Season 1 because of this, Im just trying to enjoy the story from an outsiders perspective, more like reading a good book rather than role playing in the thick of it. For decisions Im doing what I think is right and trying to think what a small girl might do.
Agreed, I guess I'll take it for what it's worth and get really into the story from an 'outside looking in' approach instead of trying to get myself involved. Not sure the emotions will be as present as they were in S1 I guess.
Hmm I understand what you're saying, I just tried to play like how I was playing Lee. I put myself in Clem's shoes and I had that mindset of what would Lee do? Or what Clementine learned from him that she could put into action.
But Clem isn't Lee, and we don't know the majority of what Clem and Christa went through. Like when she said "Just like Christa showed me," when stitching up her arm...... how and when did that happen? lol.
Ah ok, true that 16 month skip left us wondering what happened lol. Clementine's been through a lot and she's growing up in a world gone to hell she has to be strong to be able to survive so I guess just try to play her like how you would react if you were in her situation. I know it's kinda hard to relate but we just have to try our best with the options giving to us.
I think season 1 could be played both ways. You either become this character, you make choices according to your own moral compass and you interact with people the way you would IRL. OR you throw all that out of the window and you create a character in your own head. And you think, "well, what would Lee do" or "I think Lee would say something like that" (I played like that).
It's a real testament on how well Lee's character was developed for this to happen. Now I personally see no other way to play S2 than to extract yourself from Clementine's shoes and just be the viewer, and a partaker in this interactive story. It's still very much your own story but you're not the main character. (I actually prefer it that way)
I pardon my english and I hope I make any kind of sense but that's just my two cents.
This is what I feared when I first heard Clementine was the protagonist. It didn't happen to me though, luckily. The proof of that is Clementine's death scenes. In season 1, they were all off-screen and, unlike Lee's, they nearly gave me a heart attack. In season 2, however, they were far more graphic and, even if I find them gross due to Clementine's age, the feeling is not the same. So I think I'm starting to feel more like Clem than like Lee. I even look at her differently in my season 1 replays.
It made perfect sense to me
and I agree you can't play from her shoes and that you need to be a viewer in the story, but I don't like that. You said it's still very much your own story, but doesn't the fact you aren't the main character (or aren't playing as the character) ,as you said, completely contradict that statement? To me that can still be a good story, it can be interesting and worth playing, but it isn't yours like it was in S1.
Wish my mind worked like yours. There just isn't the same, easy connection for me anymore.
The death scenes don't make me feel like they did in S1 either, I don't get jumpy or heartbroken or anything, but I think that's testimate to the opposite for me. I am looking at her dying from a perspective outside the story, it doesn't mean much when she dies because it doesn't have the 'drawing in' effect it did in S1... I think that all made sense?
How is it hard to relate to a 11 year old?. You were 11 years old once in your life.
I remember when I was younger that there were many things I believed I would never do which my parents did. Sure there are massive differences between us but as I get older I realize that as different as we are we in a way are also so alike. Clem feels like that to me.
There is I think a disconnect between what she feels about the past and what I do but I think that will diminish. I have a feeling that's it's due to me imagining what she felt in the first one because as Lee you only saw what she expressed whereas now you are her and so get to see her inner demons, and sometimes...that just feels worse than what I thought in season 1.
One thing they did well is the long time period, I know alot of people complain about 16 months but we as the players kinda also have to wait "16 months". The feelings of what happened to Lee are still there but we've had time to sort of deal with them, so in a way when Clem talks about the past it feels like me that had to push some of that aside.
I guess it depends on what you consider your story to be. What makes it yours, you know what I mean? Like, I don't necessarily believe that you have to play a main character that's a blank slate in order to consider it my story. You still choose Clementine's dialogue, you still make difficult decisions but going even deeper, I think everyone views Clementine and the various situations she's in differently.
It's a difficult one to explain but at the end of the day, I think it comes down to just personal preferences.
I was a single sperm cell once, but I don't relate to them well.
Agreed, I guess we were viewing 'your story' differently.
]ol love the point about the time jump being equivillant to the time we waited for S2 release, and it makes complete sense. Doesn't make me feel more connected though
When I read this I imagined it in Larry's voice.
Lol, man don't go too far. Sperm cell really? Of course you can't relate to it, since you don't remember. But you can surely remember being 11 years old.
Being an adult doesn't mean forgetting that you were a child once. As there is a saying in my people: "The greater the child is in the man, the greater the man himself'' (roughly translated)
the thing is, playing as clem is not that faaar different from playing as lee. you had to put yourself in lee's shoes in the first season, like you were telling yourself that you are a person who is in a zombie apocalypse, and you acted, made choices as if you were in a zombie apocalypse
the only difference is that now you are a 11 year old who is in a zombie apocalypse, and you are going to act and make choices as if you are a 11 year old in a zombie apocalypse.
that's it.
Dont think of it as "what would clem say''. TT is making you the 11 year old in the woods so just say w/e you would say naturally.
You can't compare Episode 1 of season 2 to the entire Season 1. Its going to get more emotional and hopefully faster countdowns where you dont get to think much about it. I believe Telltale has alot in store for us we cant even imagine.
Then everything I am saying can be applied just to epsiode 1 of S1. I don't think faster timers is going to make me feel any more connected to Clem, if anything it will anger me because after I hit the button I'll realize that while a 20 year old, completely independant man would have said that option, an 11 year old girl wouldn't, even if both have been in the ZA for 2 years.
Your saying means they retain child-like qualities, making them fun and interesting. It doesn't mean they never grow at all, those people are considered stunted and don't usually do well fitting into society.I might remember events from when I was 11, or people, or even how I felt at that time, but it doesn't mean I can relate to my niece who is now currently 12. Sort of why younger people call their parents and elders lame and the like, because while the older people remember what it was like to be that young, they aren't that young. Just my point of view.
That is a huge different. I, as a man of an older generation (kind of) and a person with children around who I care about dearly, have sooo much more in common with Lee than Clem, which makes it multitudes easier for me to play as him than as her.
I don't know. They wouldn't add dialogue if it doesn't suit some version of Clem
The problem arises when I need to think about which fits who I think Clem is.
I get it mate, you have a point.
But never let the child in you die.
It does make sense. We're just different, I guess. When I played season 1 and Lee died, as emotionally invested as I was, it was nothing to me, just gameplay, non-canon. My usual reaction was "Fuck!". Some of that may be 'cause the computer I had then was so damn slow I died really often and really stupidly, making my deaths less and less meaningful (By the 50th time Danny St. John shot me, I was laughing).
To me, death kicked me out of my immersion in the game (which means I see whoever died as a playable character and not something like S1 Clem). For you, I think, the character's death does the opposite and not feeling that bad about it means your connection is weaker. That being said, I think you just need time. Its being only one episode and there no telling what the rest of the season might do to you or your connection to Clem.
For me it's not about not being able to relate to Clementine. I usually play people I have nothing in common with in rpgs and never have any issues.
But I still see Clem as the Clementine from season one. The girl I was protecting throughout the entire game.
I seem to be playing with the mindset of Lee for some reason, even though he isn't around anymore.
As if I were Lee's ghost guiding Clem.
If that makes any sense.
If this eleven year old girl was a complete new character I think it would be a bit easier to play "as yourself".
But you have to remember, it IS Z-Apocalypse and age does not matter enymore, Clem have seen some serious stuff in these past 2-3 years that will change you to be more of like middle age maverick guy, still... no disrespect of your oppinion.
Clem may be 11 years old, but she was forced to grow up once she spent 16 months in the wilderness, which means she is mature to an extent when it comes to survival in the ZA. It's not "What would Clem do" anymore. She was the moral compass, and now she lost her moral compass somewhat; it's our choice whether or not to keep a moral compass ourselves.
She doesn't act the same as S1 Clem because she realizes that she was "weak" and "foolish" at that time (I think she especially blames herself for the death of Lee, Kenny (supposedly), and Omid (who basically sealed the deal with her abandoning her younger self's personality and morality)), so it's up to us to make sure she keeps that moral compass.
Hell yeah, live young forever!
I agree, she would be toughened and hardened, I wouldn't want to get in a fight with her and I sure as hell wouldn't start an argument with her. But she is still 11 and her mindset, goals, and overall mentality would be very different from an older man, or even older woman.
Well that last part makes me feel better
Good point. Perhaps seeing her as a side character for an entire season and then jumping to her point of view messed with me a bit. I don't usually play rpgs, but when I do it isn't to connect with them it's to make a story via them, which is what it feels like this game is doing, it just doesn't seem as appealing as being in the story like it felt during the first season. Don't get me wrong, I'm always down for a good story, which is why I'm positive I will enjoy this season; I'm just not sure if it will have the same effect...
True. With Lee I mixed ways of playing I suppose. I made what moral choices I'd make but made that into Lee's personality, then with certain things like sparing the St Johns I decided what I'd do (Regretfully kill them because they knew where the Motor Inn is and could come back, if it was real it'd be too risky even though I wouldn't want to murder them at all AND I believe they deserve to be walker bait for what they do) whereas Lee would spare them because he's better than that (Dale or Hersl kind of guy) and Clem is watching so I spared both
I'm glad
. Gotta stay positive!