yeah,I think it happens in almost every movie,comic,or game where police or army can't do a proper way dealing with problems,and make an untrained and lack of preparation civilian to come out glorious like a badass,I think the directors or producers used to be angsty teenagers that says "fuck the police" when they could
I know right? Civilians start out with barely no supplies and survive a long time. People with riot shields, M4s and bullet (and teeth too!) proof suits die at the beggining. Unbelievable.
I never said my country was perfect, nor that it was better than America.
Nor did I say I don't live in america.
However, you CAN EASILY… more move to another country if you dislike the one you're born in. You CAN'T EASILY change the sexuality, race or sex that you were born with.
Well I don't hate where I live I just hate how things are run. And honestly I don't want to move any where else cause the minute I say Im fro… morem America, just might be the words that lead to my downfall. I see it all the time and wish people were not so stupid. I live with racism everyday already (well since im white its for some reason called "reverse racism" here in america) cause I live in Houston and the Hispanics around where I live think I don't know what blanco or gringo means when they are clearly talking shit about me in their native language. I wish more people were like me and didn't see race but its hard not to when your the one singled out by another race, basically I gotta live with being hated for who I just happened to be born as whether its for being white or whether its for being American apparently. Im not racist I hate humans as a whole.
I suppose you can give a lot of justifiications. For instance, the death toll in the first few days would have been very high amongst the police, the national guard and the military, given that they are the ones that have to FIGHT the walkers (not to mention that they'd probably try to reason with them initially). In fact, not only did they have to fight walkers, but they had to protect people. Taking in someone bitten or with a heart disease could be lethal, but they didn't know that. Worse of all, once everything started going to hell, people themselves could have actively tried to destroy the military to fullfil their own selfish fantasies. Finally, everything went to hell really fast, like 2-4 days, which didn't exactly give anyone a chance to truly respond to the zombie threat.
But, honestly, zombies won 'cause they had to win. The police and the government are always useless (and even counter-productive) on TV or films when fighting for the good guys. Why the hell would the world need John McClane if the cops had taken down the terrorist in the first five minutes of the movie? And why is it that Batman was more effective at defeating the Joker than all of Gotham police? Because otherwise we wouldn't need heroes. Movies, television and video games show us a hero (or group of heroes) that need to face a threat that is far too big for conventional security forces. That's why you'll never see a police or military force do anything right in movies. Because otherwise, movies would last five minutes.
Um no, a grenade/missile kills a group, a nuke kills half the population of the U.S., The U.S. wouldn't resort to a nuke in the timespan that… more it took for them to fall, and they wouldn't do country-wide bombings in that time either, they at most could've started bombing 6 cities in about six/ten hours of the outbreak, it took for it to go nation-wide about five, the Military simply wasn't prepared or fit for such a situation and as such they got their ass kicked and its somewhat believable, as seen in the hospital the Military had no idea what they were doing as they shot people left-and-right to deal with walkers, with that kind of mass murder obviously they'd get constant defections and AWOL's, branches of the military went rouge, the remaining branchs got overrun from the mass loss of personnel, they pulled back to manageable bases elsewhere, they have to be around just not where rick and Co. have been. You don't get it, It was a nation-wide e… [view original content]
Yeah im thankful its only verbal. it just gets uncomfortable. Also in America if you're white and decide to defend your self you better pray to whatever god you believe in that whoever you hit is also white other wise it becomes ww5 and they turn it into a big ass racial debate. one of my friends in middle school was getting jumped by 3 African americans and when he hit one back he was expelled, and they got off scot free. So whenever I go to the store down the street from my house I hate when they give me the dirty looks and talk shit about me cause im white, (not realizing all my friends are Hispanic so like I don't know what they are saying) and I just have to hope it doesn't get violent cause I know id be made out to be the bad guy...... damn you guys have a point, fuck America! lol jk. it was nice to rant though haha
SirFruitcakes, if that is your real name, I wish more people saw it that way. Sadly people still judge each other over petty shit like where you live or what color your skin is. Like Steven Colbert always says I don't see race.
Refusing to hear-out other opinions=your opinion is wrong and you won't own up to it, simple as that, by default I win this debate, sorry.
It's not nitpicking, its rational understanding of the U.S. Military and how long it'd take them to react.
TL-DR:
its just irrational to think the military is all-seeing and would know "FAST SEND THE ENTIRETY OF THE U.S. MILITARY ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND START NATIONWIDE BOMBINGS, I WANT 100 BATTALIONS OF U.S. BATTLETANKS AROUND ATLANTA, NEW YORK, HOUSTON, AND WASHINGTON D.C. RIGHT NOW!", and assuming they did say that, they'd have secured two of those cities, thats it, with the full force of the U.S. military, they could've secured, TWO OF THOSE CITIES, in the time that it took for every other city in the entire goddamn country to get completely overrun.
However to add onto this, there were a group of military officers guarding the C.D.C, unfortunately they, as many people have said, deserted to go find their families alongside the scientists who were also there.
Yeah I'm not reading that. It isn't realistic and no matter how much someone nit-picks at it it will be no more realistic.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
I've completely destroyed every 'reason' it is true put before me before you came along and I am tired of fighting this never ending battle. It's more like a religious debate at this point. It's completely unrealistic and impossible yet somehow the masses buy it wholeheartedly. In anycase I'm done because no matter how many people I prove wrong another will fill their shoes with newer (usually not), 'better' (usually not) evidence and it never stops.
Refusing to hear-out other opinions=your opinion is wrong and you won't own up to it, simple as that, by default I win this debate, sorry.
… moreIt's not nitpicking, its rational understanding of the U.S. Military and how long it'd take them to react.
TL-DR:
its just irrational to think the military is all-seeing and would know "FAST SEND THE ENTIRETY OF THE U.S. MILITARY ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND START NATIONWIDE BOMBINGS, I WANT 100 BATTALIONS OF U.S. BATTLETANKS AROUND ATLANTA, NEW YORK, HOUSTON, AND WASHINGTON D.C. RIGHT NOW!", and assuming they did say that, they'd have secured two of those cities, thats it, with the full force of the U.S. military, they could've secured, TWO OF THOSE CITIES, in the time that it took for every other city in the entire goddamn country to get completely overrun.
However to add onto this, there were a group of military officers guarding the C.D.C, unfortunately they, as many people have said, deserted to go find their families alongside the scientists who were also there.
The basic argument is often called "Soldiers have families too" argument. This isn't an exact quote but it basically goes like this.
Once the chain of command completely breaks down, what you have is divided forces in military bases with finite resources. At this moment so the theory goes, a certain percentage of solders will abandon their post. Some will because they no longer feel obligated to follow a group that isn't a true representative of the government they swore allegiance to, some will just because of cold calculations in what the best interest of their family is. Now at first these numbers will be very small, but the longer the conflict goes on the larger the chance for abandonment.
As time goes by the military bases that are still standing have become little more then bases of a new tribe. Here again we may see more solders abandoning their post. For starters some may not approve of certain orders that are given. For example the idea of disarming the nearby populace by force, or taking their resources. Others may simply decide that it is now time to go out and be with their family directly, because they no longer believe the remaining remnants are in the best interest of their personal lives.
This combined with the general reality of resources being eaten up daily, with a much smaller level of resupply and you begin to see "the big grind" wearing down the remnants at every base.
In the Walking Dead universe specifically their is also the added fact that 1. these people don't have zombies in their pop culture, and 2. These people generally don't have the weaponry that would be as affective against an enemy that can be killed only one way. For example a grenade isn't going to have the same affect against a group of walkers as it would against a group of human beings.
Now look at the enemy. The walkers do not sleep, do not rest, do not defaecate, or have any desires beyond the basic instincts of a desire to eat, they have no emotions, or needs. A normal solider on the other hand will need to eat, sleep, drink, use restrooms, be resupplied (with weaponry, food, communications) and have the psychological issues of constant warfare to deal with. These are issues the walking dead do not have to deal with. In the end a long with everything else your dealing with the idea of a long constant never ending grind, upon which many modern weapons are not as big of a help for their worth. The walking dead are also resupplied every time a person dies, no matter how they die, so long as their brain has not been destroyed.
Then combine that with the biggest fact, these forces are not being resupplied. Gas goes bad after a few months. Once the electric grid and generators go dead, you no longer have anymore power to run things. Although bases could reload and hand load weapons, they are still going to be dependent on being able to discover primers and smokeless gunpowder, neither of which is easy to make by hand. Food goes bad if it is not regrown, water can be difficult to get if a base is not near a natural resource, and even if it is if the water is still safe to drink or if it needs to be filtered or treated with chemicals.
You've completely destroyed every reason? you haven't even looked at my well-thought out albeit very long post, I considered so many different possibilities for their downfall, the biggest being the fact that they would be so far-spread and the virus would destroy all major cities within hours, its that simple, they'd be unable to get every region under control and they'd be screwed except in their strongest regions, they have won however, just on a smaller scale, probably held up in some region or spread out in multiple bases as I've stated, so you aren't right, and not completely wrong, if kirkman acknowledges that in every sense the military is destroyed, i'll call bullshit, but as is it's believable and acceptable, considering that you could see at the hospital they were pulling out, and training wouldn't cut it because the Military isn't prepared for billions of slow walking grouped urban hostiles and wouldn't resort to those 'bombs' that 'trump teeth' until it was too late, i'll tell you what, i'll quote one little bit of my earlier post for you, one of telltales superb writing.
They lay some C4 and lead Walkers to it, boom, 10000 more on their way, they throw grenades in every direction, collapse a couple buildings, more come, several barricades setup around a city, swarmed by the sound of gunshots, it just wouldn't work, they wouldn't respond fast enough to secure enough blindspots and would end up being overwhelmed as fast as a undermanned Riot Team would in a REAL city-wide Riot.
"Let me put this in easier terms too, you have Larry as your avatar, so do I, let's use him for this argument, he is ex military, did he once even expect the Military to roll in and save the day? he didn't even mention them, Mark was a surviving military officer too, as was Lily, they didn't expect to be saved by the Military for the same reasons i've mentioned, it took until they heard rifle shots near the end of EP-1 to wonder, did the military finally move in? because that would just take time, time they didn't have."
When a bomb brings people back to life, you'll be correct.
I'm okay with stopping this here too, just stop pretending your opinion is all-crushing when you haven't even looked at my opinion or disputed it.
TL:DR
To end my argument in its entirety right here, If every man, woman and child in america were to Riot, have no weapons, and just slowly walk towards every military/official in the country and attempt to beat them to death, guess what country would have no military or government?
I'm not even trying to be a jerk, I've just got a very logical opinion I want to back, just like you.
Sorry, that is wrong in every sense.
I've completely destroyed every 'reason' it is true put before me before you came along and I am tired… more of fighting this never ending battle. It's more like a religious debate at this point. It's completely unrealistic and impossible yet somehow the masses buy it wholeheartedly. In anycase I'm done because no matter how many people I prove wrong another will fill their shoes with newer (usually not), 'better' (usually not) evidence and it never stops.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say. A fool because he has to say something."
I'm not calling you a fool, the very long (and probably well thought out) posts you have left point to the contrary. Just because I can prove you wrong doesn't mean I should feel obligated to.
You've completely destroyed every reason? you haven't even looked at my well-thought out albeit very long post, I considered so many different… more possibilities for their downfall, the biggest being the fact that they would be so far-spread and the virus would destroy all major cities within hours, its that simple, they'd be unable to get every region under control and they'd be screwed except in their strongest regions, they have won however, just on a smaller scale, probably held up in some region or spread out in multiple bases as I've stated, so you aren't right, and not completely wrong, if kirkman acknowledges that in every sense the military is destroyed, i'll call bullshit, but as is it's believable and acceptable, considering that you could see at the hospital they were pulling out, and training wouldn't cut it because the Military isn't prepared for billions of slow walking grouped urban hostiles and wouldn't resort to those 'bombs' that 't… [view original content]
Let's agree to disagree, from my view point, the Military definitely from any logical standpoint did win, just on a smaller scale, so neither of us can really be wrong, the thing is however, on a nation-wide catastrophe like this, unless they managed to cure the virus, there would be no taking back America, a full scale loss? no way, a full scale victory? no way, so neither of us is really wrong, and neither of us really should be, as there is logic on both sides here, even with your somewhat one-sided argument.
And do remember Rick and Co. haven't exactly mapped out the country, so theres no telling what is out there.
That is what I have been trying to say this whole time.
And I apologise for my rudeness two posts above.
You can reply if you want, but as promised I am ending it here from my side to spare you my unneeded arguments, as this entire conversation really doesnt matter and can be left to the fact really that they lost in the story.
I did say before you, didn't I?
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say. A fool because he has to say something."
I'm not cal… moreling you a fool, the very long (and probably well thought out) posts you have left point to the contrary. Just because I can prove you wrong doesn't mean I should feel obligated to.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
Because there would be no story otherwise. Imagine how anticlimactic it would be if the army showed up at the end of episode 1 bringing blankets and hot chocolate for everyone.
It's not only that. Machines need electricy and fuel to work and the soldiers need food, water and all kind of other supplies along with bullets. Now they got alot of supplies on stock, but how long will they last? 2 months? Eventually they'll have to depend on deliveries from military companies which might not even exist anymore for obvious reasons. Then the morale of the troops will fall, they will go away to look for their families and friends. Furthermore, the military isn't allowed to shoot its citizens just like this. They need the permission from the president. And they also need to know how to kill the zombies and quaratine bitten subjects. The CDC might only need a few hours to find out about all kind of stuff but until all of the military knows about this a week might have passed. And I haven't even considered yet that doctors and police officers who might aid them are already bitten or dead.
Because writers want "Post-Apocalypse". So that's why. Actually it's easy for most of the armies. Come on, we are at 21st century and WALKING … moreFUCKING DEADS tooooo easy. Running Zombies are really hard but, come on. Walkers? Where the hell is goddamn airforce and tanks? We got a lot of them. And lots of weapons. But you know, writers want post-apocaylpse.
You don't get the point of this. Your bolded bottom-line is based on the idea that you can just nuke all the zombies away and then the military can take care of it after that with gunpower.
The military, guns, bombs and tanks will always kill the zombies. But they will not beat the virus - they will be overrun if they stick as a large group, as the military. Soldiers will survive in small groups but if they function in a big group as "the military" they will never be able to control the virus. They will never win unless they find the vaccine.
I did say before you, didn't I?
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say. A fool because he has to say something."
I'm not cal… moreling you a fool, the very long (and probably well thought out) posts you have left point to the contrary. Just because I can prove you wrong doesn't mean I should feel obligated to.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
You don't get the point of this. Your bolded bottom-line is based on the idea that you can just nuke all the zombies away and then the militar… morey can take care of it after that with gunpower.
The military, guns, bombs and tanks will always kill the zombies. But they will not beat the virus - they will be overrun if they stick as a large group, as the military. Soldiers will survive in small groups but if they function in a big group as "the military" they will never be able to control the virus. They will never win unless they find the vaccine.
Lmao right! If I was to break my leg i'd be better off just "walking it off" cause they treat you like shit if you don't have health insurance. I work with my parents who own their own business so we get ZERO benefits. And we get treated like we make soo much money on our taxes even though that money just goes back into the company, so in reality we barely make a profit but we just have to keep dishing out money while people that actually make more money than us get welfare. UGGH Fuck the system, I'm probably going to end up dead out of the blue one day because I basically cant go to a hospital without becoming homeless.
Lmao right! If I was to break my leg i'd be better off just "walking it off" cause they treat you like shit if you don't have health insurance… more. I work with my parents who own their own business so we get ZERO benefits. And we get treated like we make soo much money on our taxes even though that money just goes back into the company, so in reality we barely make a profit but we just have to keep dishing out money while people that actually make more money than us get welfare. UGGH Fuck the system, I'm probably going to end up dead out of the blue one day because I basically cant go to a hospital without becoming homeless.
Im more or less in clems position if a dog bit me like that. Having to probably stitch myself up like that at least, though I would probably do a worst job than clem did. ill just be sure to have some apple juice with me.
a great disaster : a sudden and very bad event that causes much fear, loss, or destruction
Pretty sure people can still be alive during an apocalypse. Even if the world is run by apes, there will still be humans around somewhere for Charles Heston to rally.
But seriously.. I think even in the biblical Apocalypse, which is supposed to be the big apocalypse, there's still supposed to be survivors
I've said it before as well. There is just no possible way society would collapse completely because of a zombie apocalypse the way it does in zombie fiction. It would initially cause a lot of deaths and panic and then things would more or less get back to normal except with some extra precautions in place.
Yes, there are a lot of dead people in the world. Most of them are not laying about in the streets waiting to be re-awakened. Almost all dead people in modern society are inside somewhere. Either they just recently died and they are probably in their house or some building, or they died some time ago in which case they are in a morgue or 6 feet under the ground. It would actually be no problem at all for most ordinary people to handle the very few zombies which would actually be walking around, not even to mention to military.
But then we wouldn't have the same story would we?
Some walkers reanimate within seconds. Imagine some older couple sleeping in their beds and the men suddenly dies. Before his wife notices anything she'll be bitten. After some days some ups delivery man comes by and they bite him too. Not only will he also bite his family but the original zombie couple can freely roam on the street to by passants. And they will also bite their family and so on. One day is already sufficient for the zombies to bite about 10 million people around the world, especially in big cities. By day two the CDC will have researched the subjects but by then there will be over 100 million people bitten and quarantine zones will just make it worse.
I've said it before as well. There is just no possible way society would collapse completely because of a zombie apocalypse the way it does in… more zombie fiction. It would initially cause a lot of deaths and panic and then things would more or less get back to normal except with some extra precautions in place.
Yes, there are a lot of dead people in the world. Most of them are not laying about in the streets waiting to be re-awakened. Almost all dead people in modern society are inside somewhere. Either they just recently died and they are probably in their house or some building, or they died some time ago in which case they are in a morgue or 6 feet under the ground. It would actually be no problem at all for most ordinary people to handle the very few zombies which would actually be walking around, not even to mention to military.
But then we wouldn't have the same story would we?
Very well reasoned, and I agree. But there's an addition to these facts from a governmental point of view.
People carry this disease even after they die, so it spread undetected for who knows how long to potentially many points of the world untl the chances that one of those people would die soon became high enough and then an outbreak occurred in that specific area. Now imagine how one country's leaders would react to a disruption to sudden and violent as this: it would be hard not to think that it was some kind of biological warfare from an enemy, and considering the speed with which it appears to transmits itself (because people wouldn't know that many already have it prior to dying), confirming or denying similar reports abroad would be pretty difficult as communications owuld be overloaded by average citizens themselves. So, in a rare few instances, some military leaders might respond with a nuclear option before getting all their facts because to wait is to see more of your people die and appear very weak or just paralyzed in response.
This in turn would only make it more likely for the disease to spread, and so making a rapid military response very weak.
On the other hand, this assumes it's a realistic disease, and not something supernatural, because in a few instances (in the game and in the show) decapitated walker heads are shown to make noise and breathe even though there're no lungs to make the air pressure, so it could very well be a biblical thing.
According to the World Almanac and Book of Facts 2012, roughly 150,000 people die per day.
The U.S. possesses 2.2 million total personnel i… moren all branches, both active and reserve.
The US has roughly the sixth largest military in the world.
In a single month, 4,500,000 people worldwide die, according to the Factbook.
In 30 days, every military on Earth is outnumbered by zombies. And that's not including the huge spike in fatalities caused by the actual outbreak.
This also isn't considering that an army, any army, can't just insta-deploy in their country. The U.S. can't muster up 1.1 million land personnel in an hour anywhere in the country. The outbreak would spread rapidly and the time to actually deploy would be lengthy. This also isn't factoring in personnel who may desert the Army or flee the country once they hear of the outbreaks.
After the outbreak got violent, it'd take time for the National Guard, then the Army, to deplo… [view original content]
Suspension of disbelief bud. Same thing would apply to the fact that a real life zombie apocalypse would be over in about 15 minutes, because everybody would be fucking prepared.
Um no, a grenade/missile kills a group, a nuke kills half the population of the U.S., The U.S. wouldn't resort to a nuke in the timespan that… more it took for them to fall, and they wouldn't do country-wide bombings in that time either, they at most could've started bombing 6 cities in about six/ten hours of the outbreak, it took for it to go nation-wide about five, the Military simply wasn't prepared or fit for such a situation and as such they got their ass kicked and its somewhat believable, as seen in the hospital the Military had no idea what they were doing as they shot people left-and-right to deal with walkers, with that kind of mass murder obviously they'd get constant defections and AWOL's, branches of the military went rouge, the remaining branchs got overrun from the mass loss of personnel, they pulled back to manageable bases elsewhere, they have to be around just not where rick and Co. have been. You don't get it, It was a nation-wide e… [view original content]
There is actual military protocol that when faced with a no-win situation, they are told to leave, gather supplies and live on. Many would des… moreert and many would just be disbanded out into the world. The idea is to outlive the threat. Take the years to continue the fight until civilization can return.
Suspension of disbelief bud. Same thing would apply to the fact that a real life zombie apocalypse would be over in about 15 minutes, because everybody would be fucking prepared.
Sure, everyone is "infected", but that's not a problem until you actually...you know...die.
I just find the suggestion that a force with weapons AND organization on its side wouldn't be able to overcome an enemy that can be killed through a shot to the head (not to mention being intensely stupid) completely laughable.
I'm guessing that writers just leave the reader to assume zombie apocalypses naturally cause the human race to go into some kind of spastic freak-out, turning 99% of the world's population into morons.
If you've got 20 people walking down the street, covered in blood, taking chunks out of everything they can find, everyone's gonna know, and everyone's gonna open up a red hot can of whoopass
Herds form when it is already too late. In the beginning there are only a few zeds who reanimated after a heart attack or people who were bitten and cleaned the wound. You won't suspect them being dead at the first glance and that is what gives them their chance to spread. Not to forget the airbone infection which will make every dead one reanimate around the earth thanks to globalisation.
If you've got 20 people walking down the street, covered in blood, taking chunks out of everything they can find, everyone's gonna know, and everyone's gonna open up a red hot can of whoopass
Then everybody prepares for that. It wouldn't cripple and destroy the world's infrastructure like in the media, that's for sure. Suspension o' disbelief.
Herds form when it is already too late. In the beginning there are only a few zeds who reanimated after a heart attack or people who were bitt… moreen and cleaned the wound. You won't suspect them being dead at the first glance and that is what gives them their chance to spread. Not to forget the airbone infection which will make every dead one reanimate around the earth thanks to globalisation.
Yeah, good idea, everybody prepares for it. America got it's gun which might help for a bit until ammo runs out or the sound attracts close-by lurkers. Everyone in the rest of the world has a crossbow at best and many don't even have more than a simple hatchet.
Then everybody prepares for that. It wouldn't cripple and destroy the world's infrastructure like in the media, that's for sure. Suspension o' disbelief.
Yeah, good idea, everybody prepares for it. America got it's gun which might help for a bit until ammo runs out or the sound attracts close-by… more lurkers. Everyone in the rest of the world has a crossbow at best and many don't even have more than a simple hatchet.
Read World War Z. It has good examples of how the military was initially unprepared for a zombie threat (and subsequently how they changed their tactics to ultimately "win").
Comments
yeah,I think it happens in almost every movie,comic,or game where police or army can't do a proper way dealing with problems,and make an untrained and lack of preparation civilian to come out glorious like a badass,I think the directors or producers used to be angsty teenagers that says "fuck the police" when they could
There is one race, that is humanity, the rest are just genetics.
Be thankful that you're just suffering from light verbal discrimination.
In lots of countries in the world you can be killed for being gay.
I suppose you can give a lot of justifiications. For instance, the death toll in the first few days would have been very high amongst the police, the national guard and the military, given that they are the ones that have to FIGHT the walkers (not to mention that they'd probably try to reason with them initially). In fact, not only did they have to fight walkers, but they had to protect people. Taking in someone bitten or with a heart disease could be lethal, but they didn't know that. Worse of all, once everything started going to hell, people themselves could have actively tried to destroy the military to fullfil their own selfish fantasies. Finally, everything went to hell really fast, like 2-4 days, which didn't exactly give anyone a chance to truly respond to the zombie threat.
But, honestly, zombies won 'cause they had to win. The police and the government are always useless (and even counter-productive) on TV or films when fighting for the good guys. Why the hell would the world need John McClane if the cops had taken down the terrorist in the first five minutes of the movie? And why is it that Batman was more effective at defeating the Joker than all of Gotham police? Because otherwise we wouldn't need heroes. Movies, television and video games show us a hero (or group of heroes) that need to face a threat that is far too big for conventional security forces. That's why you'll never see a police or military force do anything right in movies. Because otherwise, movies would last five minutes.
Yeah I'm not reading that. It isn't realistic and no matter how much someone nit-picks at it it will be no more realistic.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
Yeah im thankful its only verbal. it just gets uncomfortable. Also in America if you're white and decide to defend your self you better pray to whatever god you believe in that whoever you hit is also white other wise it becomes ww5 and they turn it into a big ass racial debate. one of my friends in middle school was getting jumped by 3 African americans and when he hit one back he was expelled, and they got off scot free. So whenever I go to the store down the street from my house I hate when they give me the dirty looks and talk shit about me cause im white, (not realizing all my friends are Hispanic so like I don't know what they are saying) and I just have to hope it doesn't get violent cause I know id be made out to be the bad guy...... damn you guys have a point, fuck America! lol jk. it was nice to rant though haha
SirFruitcakes, if that is your real name, I wish more people saw it that way. Sadly people still judge each other over petty shit like where you live or what color your skin is. Like Steven Colbert always says I don't see race.
Refusing to hear-out other opinions=your opinion is wrong and you won't own up to it, simple as that, by default I win this debate, sorry.
It's not nitpicking, its rational understanding of the U.S. Military and how long it'd take them to react.
TL-DR:
its just irrational to think the military is all-seeing and would know "FAST SEND THE ENTIRETY OF THE U.S. MILITARY ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND START NATIONWIDE BOMBINGS, I WANT 100 BATTALIONS OF U.S. BATTLETANKS AROUND ATLANTA, NEW YORK, HOUSTON, AND WASHINGTON D.C. RIGHT NOW!", and assuming they did say that, they'd have secured two of those cities, thats it, with the full force of the U.S. military, they could've secured, TWO OF THOSE CITIES, in the time that it took for every other city in the entire goddamn country to get completely overrun.
However to add onto this, there were a group of military officers guarding the C.D.C, unfortunately they, as many people have said, deserted to go find their families alongside the scientists who were also there.
Sorry, that is wrong in every sense.
I've completely destroyed every 'reason' it is true put before me before you came along and I am tired of fighting this never ending battle. It's more like a religious debate at this point. It's completely unrealistic and impossible yet somehow the masses buy it wholeheartedly. In anycase I'm done because no matter how many people I prove wrong another will fill their shoes with newer (usually not), 'better' (usually not) evidence and it never stops.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
The basic argument is often called "Soldiers have families too" argument. This isn't an exact quote but it basically goes like this.
Once the chain of command completely breaks down, what you have is divided forces in military bases with finite resources. At this moment so the theory goes, a certain percentage of solders will abandon their post. Some will because they no longer feel obligated to follow a group that isn't a true representative of the government they swore allegiance to, some will just because of cold calculations in what the best interest of their family is. Now at first these numbers will be very small, but the longer the conflict goes on the larger the chance for abandonment.
As time goes by the military bases that are still standing have become little more then bases of a new tribe. Here again we may see more solders abandoning their post. For starters some may not approve of certain orders that are given. For example the idea of disarming the nearby populace by force, or taking their resources. Others may simply decide that it is now time to go out and be with their family directly, because they no longer believe the remaining remnants are in the best interest of their personal lives.
This combined with the general reality of resources being eaten up daily, with a much smaller level of resupply and you begin to see "the big grind" wearing down the remnants at every base.
In the Walking Dead universe specifically their is also the added fact that 1. these people don't have zombies in their pop culture, and 2. These people generally don't have the weaponry that would be as affective against an enemy that can be killed only one way. For example a grenade isn't going to have the same affect against a group of walkers as it would against a group of human beings.
Now look at the enemy. The walkers do not sleep, do not rest, do not defaecate, or have any desires beyond the basic instincts of a desire to eat, they have no emotions, or needs. A normal solider on the other hand will need to eat, sleep, drink, use restrooms, be resupplied (with weaponry, food, communications) and have the psychological issues of constant warfare to deal with. These are issues the walking dead do not have to deal with. In the end a long with everything else your dealing with the idea of a long constant never ending grind, upon which many modern weapons are not as big of a help for their worth. The walking dead are also resupplied every time a person dies, no matter how they die, so long as their brain has not been destroyed.
Then combine that with the biggest fact, these forces are not being resupplied. Gas goes bad after a few months. Once the electric grid and generators go dead, you no longer have anymore power to run things. Although bases could reload and hand load weapons, they are still going to be dependent on being able to discover primers and smokeless gunpowder, neither of which is easy to make by hand. Food goes bad if it is not regrown, water can be difficult to get if a base is not near a natural resource, and even if it is if the water is still safe to drink or if it needs to be filtered or treated with chemicals.
You've completely destroyed every reason? you haven't even looked at my well-thought out albeit very long post, I considered so many different possibilities for their downfall, the biggest being the fact that they would be so far-spread and the virus would destroy all major cities within hours, its that simple, they'd be unable to get every region under control and they'd be screwed except in their strongest regions, they have won however, just on a smaller scale, probably held up in some region or spread out in multiple bases as I've stated, so you aren't right, and not completely wrong, if kirkman acknowledges that in every sense the military is destroyed, i'll call bullshit, but as is it's believable and acceptable, considering that you could see at the hospital they were pulling out, and training wouldn't cut it because the Military isn't prepared for billions of slow walking grouped urban hostiles and wouldn't resort to those 'bombs' that 'trump teeth' until it was too late, i'll tell you what, i'll quote one little bit of my earlier post for you, one of telltales superb writing.
They lay some C4 and lead Walkers to it, boom, 10000 more on their way, they throw grenades in every direction, collapse a couple buildings, more come, several barricades setup around a city, swarmed by the sound of gunshots, it just wouldn't work, they wouldn't respond fast enough to secure enough blindspots and would end up being overwhelmed as fast as a undermanned Riot Team would in a REAL city-wide Riot.
"Let me put this in easier terms too, you have Larry as your avatar, so do I, let's use him for this argument, he is ex military, did he once even expect the Military to roll in and save the day? he didn't even mention them, Mark was a surviving military officer too, as was Lily, they didn't expect to be saved by the Military for the same reasons i've mentioned, it took until they heard rifle shots near the end of EP-1 to wonder, did the military finally move in? because that would just take time, time they didn't have."
When a bomb brings people back to life, you'll be correct.
I'm okay with stopping this here too, just stop pretending your opinion is all-crushing when you haven't even looked at my opinion or disputed it.
TL:DR
To end my argument in its entirety right here, If every man, woman and child in america were to Riot, have no weapons, and just slowly walk towards every military/official in the country and attempt to beat them to death, guess what country would have no military or government?
I'm not even trying to be a jerk, I've just got a very logical opinion I want to back, just like you.
I did say before you, didn't I?
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say. A fool because he has to say something."
I'm not calling you a fool, the very long (and probably well thought out) posts you have left point to the contrary. Just because I can prove you wrong doesn't mean I should feel obligated to.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
Let's agree to disagree, from my view point, the Military definitely from any logical standpoint did win, just on a smaller scale, so neither of us can really be wrong, the thing is however, on a nation-wide catastrophe like this, unless they managed to cure the virus, there would be no taking back America, a full scale loss? no way, a full scale victory? no way, so neither of us is really wrong, and neither of us really should be, as there is logic on both sides here, even with your somewhat one-sided argument.
And do remember Rick and Co. haven't exactly mapped out the country, so theres no telling what is out there.
That is what I have been trying to say this whole time.
And I apologise for my rudeness two posts above.
You can reply if you want, but as promised I am ending it here from my side to spare you my unneeded arguments, as this entire conversation really doesnt matter and can be left to the fact really that they lost in the story.
You just found out why Clem had to stitch up herself - no health insurance.
Reminds me of 'The Mist'
It's not only that. Machines need electricy and fuel to work and the soldiers need food, water and all kind of other supplies along with bullets. Now they got alot of supplies on stock, but how long will they last? 2 months? Eventually they'll have to depend on deliveries from military companies which might not even exist anymore for obvious reasons. Then the morale of the troops will fall, they will go away to look for their families and friends. Furthermore, the military isn't allowed to shoot its citizens just like this. They need the permission from the president. And they also need to know how to kill the zombies and quaratine bitten subjects. The CDC might only need a few hours to find out about all kind of stuff but until all of the military knows about this a week might have passed. And I haven't even considered yet that doctors and police officers who might aid them are already bitten or dead.
You don't get the point of this. Your bolded bottom-line is based on the idea that you can just nuke all the zombies away and then the military can take care of it after that with gunpower.
The military, guns, bombs and tanks will always kill the zombies. But they will not beat the virus - they will be overrun if they stick as a large group, as the military. Soldiers will survive in small groups but if they function in a big group as "the military" they will never be able to control the virus. They will never win unless they find the vaccine.
Bomb trumps teeth, no matter how many teeth.
Lmao right! If I was to break my leg i'd be better off just "walking it off" cause they treat you like shit if you don't have health insurance. I work with my parents who own their own business so we get ZERO benefits. And we get treated like we make soo much money on our taxes even though that money just goes back into the company, so in reality we barely make a profit but we just have to keep dishing out money while people that actually make more money than us get welfare. UGGH Fuck the system, I'm probably going to end up dead out of the blue one day because I basically cant go to a hospital without becoming homeless.
At least they don't lock you in a shed.
Or do they? I havent really read the Affordable Care Act thoroughly. Maybe they do.
Im more or less in clems position if a dog bit me like that. Having to probably stitch myself up like that at least, though I would probably do a worst job than clem did. ill just be sure to have some apple juice with me.
Edit I cant stop laughing at your comment
Pretty sure people can still be alive during an apocalypse. Even if the world is run by apes, there will still be humans around somewhere for Charles Heston to rally.
But seriously.. I think even in the biblical Apocalypse, which is supposed to be the big apocalypse, there's still supposed to be survivors
I've said it before as well. There is just no possible way society would collapse completely because of a zombie apocalypse the way it does in zombie fiction. It would initially cause a lot of deaths and panic and then things would more or less get back to normal except with some extra precautions in place.
Yes, there are a lot of dead people in the world. Most of them are not laying about in the streets waiting to be re-awakened. Almost all dead people in modern society are inside somewhere. Either they just recently died and they are probably in their house or some building, or they died some time ago in which case they are in a morgue or 6 feet under the ground. It would actually be no problem at all for most ordinary people to handle the very few zombies which would actually be walking around, not even to mention to military.
But then we wouldn't have the same story would we?
Some walkers reanimate within seconds. Imagine some older couple sleeping in their beds and the men suddenly dies. Before his wife notices anything she'll be bitten. After some days some ups delivery man comes by and they bite him too. Not only will he also bite his family but the original zombie couple can freely roam on the street to by passants. And they will also bite their family and so on. One day is already sufficient for the zombies to bite about 10 million people around the world, especially in big cities. By day two the CDC will have researched the subjects but by then there will be over 100 million people bitten and quarantine zones will just make it worse.
Very well reasoned, and I agree. But there's an addition to these facts from a governmental point of view.
People carry this disease even after they die, so it spread undetected for who knows how long to potentially many points of the world untl the chances that one of those people would die soon became high enough and then an outbreak occurred in that specific area. Now imagine how one country's leaders would react to a disruption to sudden and violent as this: it would be hard not to think that it was some kind of biological warfare from an enemy, and considering the speed with which it appears to transmits itself (because people wouldn't know that many already have it prior to dying), confirming or denying similar reports abroad would be pretty difficult as communications owuld be overloaded by average citizens themselves. So, in a rare few instances, some military leaders might respond with a nuclear option before getting all their facts because to wait is to see more of your people die and appear very weak or just paralyzed in response.
This in turn would only make it more likely for the disease to spread, and so making a rapid military response very weak.
On the other hand, this assumes it's a realistic disease, and not something supernatural, because in a few instances (in the game and in the show) decapitated walker heads are shown to make noise and breathe even though there're no lungs to make the air pressure, so it could very well be a biblical thing.
Suspension of disbelief bud. Same thing would apply to the fact that a real life zombie apocalypse would be over in about 15 minutes, because everybody would be fucking prepared.
I'm sorry, but you understand I have to do this...
what? military protocol?
Yeah, because if one sees some weird guy attacking people he is at once suspecting a zombie instead of a drunk fellow.
Sure, everyone is "infected", but that's not a problem until you actually...you know...die.
I just find the suggestion that a force with weapons AND organization on its side wouldn't be able to overcome an enemy that can be killed through a shot to the head (not to mention being intensely stupid) completely laughable.
I'm guessing that writers just leave the reader to assume zombie apocalypses naturally cause the human race to go into some kind of spastic freak-out, turning 99% of the world's population into morons.
If you've got 20 people walking down the street, covered in blood, taking chunks out of everything they can find, everyone's gonna know, and everyone's gonna open up a red hot can of whoopass
Herds form when it is already too late. In the beginning there are only a few zeds who reanimated after a heart attack or people who were bitten and cleaned the wound. You won't suspect them being dead at the first glance and that is what gives them their chance to spread. Not to forget the airbone infection which will make every dead one reanimate around the earth thanks to globalisation.
Then everybody prepares for that. It wouldn't cripple and destroy the world's infrastructure like in the media, that's for sure. Suspension o' disbelief.
Yeah, good idea, everybody prepares for it. America got it's gun which might help for a bit until ammo runs out or the sound attracts close-by lurkers. Everyone in the rest of the world has a crossbow at best and many don't even have more than a simple hatchet.
its just story hhhhhhhhhh
i got AK-47
and 1000 ammo
Great, 100 Headshots and a herd leading your way.
i said 1000 not 100
and also i gut gun with 300 ammo
because iam from libya and now its easy to get gun and for free
Read World War Z. It has good examples of how the military was initially unprepared for a zombie threat (and subsequently how they changed their tactics to ultimately "win").
Of course you will get 1000 headshots, how could I not expect that !?