The nature of the comment was bitchy, but it was directed at a bitch, so it's fitting. I just thought the faux-sociopath look on her face was adorable because of how absurd it was.
But it was insanely unwarranted. Sure, she was a bitch, but think about it, when did Lee ever threaten somebody for being an asshole? The answer? Never. Even scumbag Lee was a little cool. Bitch Clem is just an asshole.
The nature of the comment was bitchy, but it was directed at a bitch, so it's fitting. I just thought the faux-sociopath look on her face was adorable because of how absurd it was.
Well, there was the entire Scumbag Lee scene with Vernon...
Rebecca was a complete cunt (please don't bann me), and while blackmailing her was a bit extreme, it isn't like much was asked for in return. Clementine's "demands" were simply that Rebecca stop being a complete bitch and leave her alone.
Anyways, if I'd ever had the chance to threaten someone for being an asshole as Lee, I would have taken it.
Also remember that you are the one who may choose to make Clementine a "bitch". Telltale recognized that Scumbag Lee wasn't truly a scumbag in most situations, so they gave us more extreme dialog choices. Whether you choose them or not is up to you.
But it was insanely unwarranted. Sure, she was a bitch, but think about it, when did Lee ever threaten somebody for being an asshole? The answer? Never. Even scumbag Lee was a little cool. Bitch Clem is just an asshole.
You mean when Vernon put a gun to Lee's head? Oh yeah I forgot about that. Oh wait. No I didn't.
Doesn't matter, she still fucking threatened someone over next to nothing. I've already had this conversation before though. Trust me, if Dome couldn't beat me, you won't either... And that's a bad thing. About blackmailing someone for being an ass.
The only problem, though, is that the other options were bland, and you knew she wouldn't give a flying fuck. "Luke invited me to stay," Rebecca made it fucking crystal clear that she didn't like what Pete and Luke had to say, when they were discussing Clem in front of the cabin. "I'm a little girl," She knows this. She doesn't care. Then silence... Silence is the only good option, and even then, it's fucking boring.
Well, there was the entire Scumbag Lee scene with Vernon...
Rebecca was a complete cunt (please don't bann me), and while blackmailing her … morewas a bit extreme, it isn't like much was asked for in return. Clementine's "demands" were simply that Rebecca stop being a complete bitch and leave her alone.
Anyways, if I'd ever had the chance to threaten someone for being an asshole as Lee, I would have taken it.
Also remember that you are the one who may choose to make Clementine a "bitch". Telltale recognized that Scumbag Lee wasn't truly a scumbag in most situations, so they gave us more extreme dialog choices. Whether you choose them or not is up to you.
I didn't realize we were having a competition here. We are having a civilized conversation about our differing opinions. I don't expect to magically override your opinion, I am just discussing the reasoning behind mine.
You feel like you were forced into choosing a specific dialogue option because the other options were lackluster, which I understand. It definitely seems like the obvious choice, otherwise why would the other options be so blatantly pointless?
You can't really consider any option to be canon at this point, though, especially when the personality projected by predetermined dialogue clashes with that of player-determined dialogue. You would be undeniably right if she were to threaten Sarah, Rebecca, bash Nick, etc. without requiring player input.
Like you said, Scumbag Lee was mostly a nice guy outside of a few player-determined situations. I suspect that, throughout the season, Clementine will be portrayed by the writers as a slightly detached do-what-it-takes-to-survive type of character, regardless of player choice. Were she to be a complete bitch by canon, I suspect that many would share your complaints.
You mean when Vernon put a gun to Lee's head? Oh yeah I forgot about that. Oh wait. No I didn't.
Doesn't matter, she still fucking threaten… moreed someone over next to nothing. I've already had this conversation before though. Trust me, if Dome couldn't beat me, you won't either... And that's a bad thing. About blackmailing someone for being an ass.
The only problem, though, is that the other options were bland, and you knew she wouldn't give a flying fuck. "Luke invited me to stay," Rebecca made it fucking crystal clear that she didn't like what Pete and Luke had to say, when they were discussing Clem in front of the cabin. "I'm a little girl," She knows this. She doesn't care. Then silence... Silence is the only good option, and even then, it's fucking boring.
I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that here's no way that that wasn't an indicator that Clem is a bitch.
Exactly.
No, but the point is that all options are equally likely in the mind of Clementine. That means even if you played the little girl card, Clem is just as much of a scumbag as the one who actually blackmailed Rebecca.
Even then, why do I even care about Clem anymore if she just doesn't give a fuck? Lee was very relatable. Clem is hardly recognizable.
I didn't realize we were having a competition here. We are having a civilized conversation about our differing opinions. I don't expect to m… moreagically override your opinion, I am just discussing the reasoning behind mine.
You feel like you were forced into choosing a specific dialogue option because the other options were lackluster, which I understand. It definitely seems like the obvious choice, otherwise why would the other options be so blatantly pointless?
You can't really consider any option to be canon at this point, though, especially when the personality projected by predetermined dialogue clashes with that of player-determined dialogue. You would be undeniably right if she were to threaten Sarah, Rebecca, bash Nick, etc. without requiring player input.
Like you said, Scumbag Lee was mostly a nice guy outside of a few player-determined situations. I suspect that, throughout the season, Clementine will be portrayed by the writ… [view original content]
I don't really understand how you can classify her as a bitch based on one potential choice. Clementine can potentially be a bitch, but she can also potentially ignore Rebecca or try to reason with her. It's like classifying someone as a bad person because they may have "evil" thoughts or little empathy in certain situations. I guess you could do it, but it is what a person does that should define them as a human being. It can also be argued that these thoughts aren't those of Clementine, but of the player.
I honestly don't care as much about Clementine as I did in Season 1, but I still relate to her and want to continue her story. Part of the problem is that, as a protagonist, she will automatically have a weaker personality than in Season 1 simply because the player will be projecting part of his or her personality onto her. I find it impossible to be as attached to someone whom I perceive as partly myself.
Also, she is obviously depressed, but it is shown mainly through her voice rather than through her actions. We never really see any significant moping, mourning, or holding back tears (outside of the table scene with Luke), we just hear a monotone voice that is supposed to portray all of this depression. I would appreciate it if they take the former approach, as it would become far easier to empathize with her.
I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that here's no way that that wasn't an indicator that Clem is a bitch.
Exactly.
No, but the poi… morent is that all options are equally likely in the mind of Clementine. That means even if you played the little girl card, Clem is just as much of a scumbag as the one who actually blackmailed Rebecca.
Even then, why do I even care about Clem anymore if she just doesn't give a fuck? Lee was very relatable. Clem is hardly recognizable.
It's not just that. Leaving the dog is also pretty fucked up... Although I understand that one a little more, if the feelings behind it were squeamish-ness rather than anger, or sadism. Also, keep in mind, I am still open about Clem, but she is invariably worse than lee. And no, it can't be argued that those are player thoughts. Someone from TTG (Sean Vanaman I think) that the point of the choices was that they were all equally likely to be thought by Lee, and considering that the second one takes all of it's notes from season 1, it's 1 in a million that this is different here.
Well we all felt attached to Lee, didn't we? They can still pull off something like that.
No, from her animations, it seems more that Melissa Hutchinson just did a bad job with trying to sound different. She shows facial expressions, and quite a lot of them... Just no vocal expression. I think it wasn't an "approach," just maybe Hutchinson trying to sound older, and instead sounding monotone.
I don't really understand how you can classify her as a bitch based on one potential choice. Clementine can potentially be a bitch, but she c… morean also potentially ignore Rebecca or try to reason with her. It's like classifying someone as a bad person because they may have "evil" thoughts or little empathy in certain situations. I guess you could do it, but it is what a person does that should define them as a human being. It can also be argued that these thoughts aren't those of Clementine, but of the player.
I honestly don't care as much about Clementine as I did in Season 1, but I still relate to her and want to continue her story. Part of the problem is that, as a protagonist, she will automatically have a weaker personality than in Season 1 simply because the player will be projecting part of his or her personality onto her. I find it impossible to be as attached to someone whom I perceive as partly myself.
Also, she is obviously de… [view original content]
But it was insanely unwarranted. Sure, she was a bitch, but think about it, when did Lee ever threaten somebody for being an asshole? The answer? Never. Even scumbag Lee was a little cool. Bitch Clem is just an asshole.
Vernon put a gun to his head. The St. Johns ATE Mark. Kenny... You can threaten Kenny? Maybe in the train? If it's the train you're referring to, then Ken was about to let his son die a much more painful death than was necessary. Larry... You can't threaten Larry. No you can't.
I think you are taking what Sean said too literally, I think that it means that Telltale aren't going to create any far-out options that completely contradict the character's predetermined personality. Anyways, I don't really care what the writers say, it doesn't have any effect on my perception of the characters or their stories. I don't like to be told what to feel and believe.
I felt attached to Lee, but mostly because of his interactions with Clementine. If Clementine wasn't in the game, I would have seen him as a fairly generic protagonist, even if he was pretty likeable, regardless.
As for the last point, yes that is a possibility. I would rather they just deepen her voice and then just leave it alone. Her facial animation showed that she was pretty much constantly depressed, but I wanted something tangible to really show the extent of her depression (like breaking down over a photo of Lee). That is very minor for me, but it would have helped with my empathy for her.
It's not just that. Leaving the dog is also pretty fucked up... Although I understand that one a little more, if the feelings behind it were s… morequeamish-ness rather than anger, or sadism. Also, keep in mind, I am still open about Clem, but she is invariably worse than lee. And no, it can't be argued that those are player thoughts. Someone from TTG (Sean Vanaman I think) that the point of the choices was that they were all equally likely to be thought by Lee, and considering that the second one takes all of it's notes from season 1, it's 1 in a million that this is different here.
Well we all felt attached to Lee, didn't we? They can still pull off something like that.
No, from her animations, it seems more that Melissa Hutchinson just did a bad job with trying to sound different. She shows facial expressions, and quite a lot of them... Just no vocal expression. I think it wasn't an "approach," just maybe Hutchinson trying to sound older, and instead sounding monotone.
You aren't told what to believe. You are Clementine's twitch impulse. Nothing more, nothing less. You have nothing to do with creating thought, conveying thought, or anything of that nature. No. You just choose what thoughts Clementine pursues. You are the one that reacts when something bad happens. You are her instincts, leading her through combat. All that. She thinks of what you choose from.
And what did Clementine give Lee? Better chances to show characterization. Something Clementine a la season 2 lacks.
It more showed boredom, fear, and happiness, while her voice showed "I just woke up."
I think you are taking what Sean said too literally, I think that it means that Telltale aren't going to create any far-out options that compl… moreetely contradict the character's predetermined personality. Anyways, I don't really care what the writers say, it doesn't have any effect on my perception of the characters or their stories. I don't like to be told what to feel and believe.
I felt attached to Lee, but mostly because of his interactions with Clementine. If Clementine wasn't in the game, I would have seen him as a fairly generic protagonist, even if he was pretty likeable, regardless.
As for the last point, yes that is a possibility. I would rather they just deepen her voice and then just leave it alone. Her facial animation showed that she was pretty much constantly depressed, but I wanted something tangible to really show the extent of her depression (like breaking down over a photo of Lee). That is very minor for me, but it would have helped with my empathy for her.
This is pointless. There is nothing left to argue about, at least nothing even remotely resembling the original argument. Just two different perceptions of player input.
Also, the "better characterization" thing was my entire point. I cared about Lee's relationship with Clementine and the effect that his death would have on her, not so much his character. I still cared a bit for his character, while I wouldn't have cared at all without his extended characterization through Clementine. Clementine was easily the more compelling character. Since she is no longer as compelling as she was in Season 1, she will need the same kind of characterization. Perhaps through interaction with Luke in a brother/sister type relationship.
You aren't told what to believe. You are Clementine's twitch impulse. Nothing more, nothing less. You have nothing to do with creating thought… more, conveying thought, or anything of that nature. No. You just choose what thoughts Clementine pursues. You are the one that reacts when something bad happens. You are her instincts, leading her through combat. All that. She thinks of what you choose from.
And what did Clementine give Lee? Better chances to show characterization. Something Clementine a la season 2 lacks.
It more showed boredom, fear, and happiness, while her voice showed "I just woke up."
Eh he is an awesome dude thats all that matters to me, Whether he is gay or not I could give two craps about it we are in the 21st Century
JesusChrist..
Comments
"Yeah, with a shovel."
The nature of the comment was bitchy, but it was directed at a bitch, so it's fitting. I just thought the faux-sociopath look on her face was adorable because of how absurd it was.
"Yeah, with a shovel"
But it was insanely unwarranted. Sure, she was a bitch, but think about it, when did Lee ever threaten somebody for being an asshole? The answer? Never. Even scumbag Lee was a little cool. Bitch Clem is just an asshole.
Well, there was the entire Scumbag Lee scene with Vernon...
Rebecca was a complete cunt (please don't bann me), and while blackmailing her was a bit extreme, it isn't like much was asked for in return. Clementine's "demands" were simply that Rebecca stop being a complete bitch and leave her alone.
Anyways, if I'd ever had the chance to threaten someone for being an asshole as Lee, I would have taken it.
Also remember that you are the one who may choose to make Clementine a "bitch". Telltale recognized that Scumbag Lee wasn't truly a scumbag in most situations, so they gave us more extreme dialog choices. Whether you choose them or not is up to you.
You mean when Vernon put a gun to Lee's head? Oh yeah I forgot about that. Oh wait. No I didn't.
Doesn't matter, she still fucking threatened someone over next to nothing. I've already had this conversation before though. Trust me, if Dome couldn't beat me, you won't either... And that's a bad thing. About blackmailing someone for being an ass.
The only problem, though, is that the other options were bland, and you knew she wouldn't give a flying fuck. "Luke invited me to stay," Rebecca made it fucking crystal clear that she didn't like what Pete and Luke had to say, when they were discussing Clem in front of the cabin. "I'm a little girl," She knows this. She doesn't care. Then silence... Silence is the only good option, and even then, it's fucking boring.
I didn't realize we were having a competition here. We are having a civilized conversation about our differing opinions. I don't expect to magically override your opinion, I am just discussing the reasoning behind mine.
You feel like you were forced into choosing a specific dialogue option because the other options were lackluster, which I understand. It definitely seems like the obvious choice, otherwise why would the other options be so blatantly pointless?
You can't really consider any option to be canon at this point, though, especially when the personality projected by predetermined dialogue clashes with that of player-determined dialogue. You would be undeniably right if she were to threaten Sarah, Rebecca, bash Nick, etc. without requiring player input.
Like you said, Scumbag Lee was mostly a nice guy outside of a few player-determined situations. I suspect that, throughout the season, Clementine will be portrayed by the writers as a slightly detached do-what-it-takes-to-survive type of character, regardless of player choice. Were she to be a complete bitch by canon, I suspect that many would share your complaints.
I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that here's no way that that wasn't an indicator that Clem is a bitch.
Exactly.
No, but the point is that all options are equally likely in the mind of Clementine. That means even if you played the little girl card, Clem is just as much of a scumbag as the one who actually blackmailed Rebecca.
Even then, why do I even care about Clem anymore if she just doesn't give a fuck? Lee was very relatable. Clem is hardly recognizable.
Being gay is so not cool. Even more so when you flaunt it in the faces of others.
I wouldn't call that flaunting but OKAY
Good on you! Same here high fives
oh no i'm crying, my feelings are hurt.
such sadness wow
I don't really understand how you can classify her as a bitch based on one potential choice. Clementine can potentially be a bitch, but she can also potentially ignore Rebecca or try to reason with her. It's like classifying someone as a bad person because they may have "evil" thoughts or little empathy in certain situations. I guess you could do it, but it is what a person does that should define them as a human being. It can also be argued that these thoughts aren't those of Clementine, but of the player.
I honestly don't care as much about Clementine as I did in Season 1, but I still relate to her and want to continue her story. Part of the problem is that, as a protagonist, she will automatically have a weaker personality than in Season 1 simply because the player will be projecting part of his or her personality onto her. I find it impossible to be as attached to someone whom I perceive as partly myself.
Also, she is obviously depressed, but it is shown mainly through her voice rather than through her actions. We never really see any significant moping, mourning, or holding back tears (outside of the table scene with Luke), we just hear a monotone voice that is supposed to portray all of this depression. I would appreciate it if they take the former approach, as it would become far easier to empathize with her.
It's not just that. Leaving the dog is also pretty fucked up... Although I understand that one a little more, if the feelings behind it were squeamish-ness rather than anger, or sadism. Also, keep in mind, I am still open about Clem, but she is invariably worse than lee. And no, it can't be argued that those are player thoughts. Someone from TTG (Sean Vanaman I think) that the point of the choices was that they were all equally likely to be thought by Lee, and considering that the second one takes all of it's notes from season 1, it's 1 in a million that this is different here.
Well we all felt attached to Lee, didn't we? They can still pull off something like that.
No, from her animations, it seems more that Melissa Hutchinson just did a bad job with trying to sound different. She shows facial expressions, and quite a lot of them... Just no vocal expression. I think it wasn't an "approach," just maybe Hutchinson trying to sound older, and instead sounding monotone.
Eh he is an awesome dude thats all that matters to me, Whether he is gay or not I could give two craps about it we are in the 21st Century
JesusChrist..
Often if you chose Him to. Vernon, The St-Johns, the guy at the end of the game, Kenny, Lilly's Dad. Can keep on going...
Vernon put a gun to his head. The St. Johns ATE Mark. Kenny... You can threaten Kenny? Maybe in the train? If it's the train you're referring to, then Ken was about to let his son die a much more painful death than was necessary. Larry... You can't threaten Larry. No you can't.
I think you are taking what Sean said too literally, I think that it means that Telltale aren't going to create any far-out options that completely contradict the character's predetermined personality. Anyways, I don't really care what the writers say, it doesn't have any effect on my perception of the characters or their stories. I don't like to be told what to feel and believe.
I felt attached to Lee, but mostly because of his interactions with Clementine. If Clementine wasn't in the game, I would have seen him as a fairly generic protagonist, even if he was pretty likeable, regardless.
As for the last point, yes that is a possibility. I would rather they just deepen her voice and then just leave it alone. Her facial animation showed that she was pretty much constantly depressed, but I wanted something tangible to really show the extent of her depression (like breaking down over a photo of Lee). That is very minor for me, but it would have helped with my empathy for her.
You aren't told what to believe. You are Clementine's twitch impulse. Nothing more, nothing less. You have nothing to do with creating thought, conveying thought, or anything of that nature. No. You just choose what thoughts Clementine pursues. You are the one that reacts when something bad happens. You are her instincts, leading her through combat. All that. She thinks of what you choose from.
And what did Clementine give Lee? Better chances to show characterization. Something Clementine a la season 2 lacks.
It more showed boredom, fear, and happiness, while her voice showed "I just woke up."
You are just stating opinion as fact.
This is pointless. There is nothing left to argue about, at least nothing even remotely resembling the original argument. Just two different perceptions of player input.
Also, the "better characterization" thing was my entire point. I cared about Lee's relationship with Clementine and the effect that his death would have on her, not so much his character. I still cared a bit for his character, while I wouldn't have cared at all without his extended characterization through Clementine. Clementine was easily the more compelling character. Since she is no longer as compelling as she was in Season 1, she will need the same kind of characterization. Perhaps through interaction with Luke in a brother/sister type relationship.
I'm gay right now.....as in happy.
It's not cool to judge someone on their sexual preferences
We're always so agreeable with each other!
Woo hoo! My Gravatar pic worked.
@ClemClemForever I like what you did with your profile picture : )
I just changed mine too. Telltale's Clem avatar was getting rather old.
Yeah, I'm about to change it again. I just took a picture off my iPad that I'd rather use
Touche. A high five for you!
Damn you got an iPad? Lucky you. Is it the latest one, the iPad Air?
Yeah it's an iPad Air. Just got it for my Birthday 2 weeks ago
I dunno. Pimp Lee is pretty badass
Oh you lucky son of a bitch lol
XD
^ There's so many Clementines in here
I've seen a few other people around who have been stealing your thunder tho
Yep. Oh how we love her...
You should have expected this...
I was going to myself, but, I thought that you should do the honours