Luke or Lilly? A Hypothetical Scenario.
I'm so sorry that this is so long. If you don't want read it then I totally understand. I've changed it up a little bit. Okay, so this is a hypothetical:
Fast forward after Clementine and Luke fight through the herd of walkers and have a real bonding moment together. Clementine and the cabin group are at the mountains and the opposing group is holding all of you at gunpoint. Clementine nudges Luke and Carlos out of the way to find out that the person who she'd thought was dead was... Lilly! How even more unexpected and without a doubt unpredictable.
Clementine: I thought you were dead.
Lilly: Clementine is that you!? You're alive!? What happened to the others? What are you even doing with this group?
Clementine briefly explains what happened to her after the RV incident, all the way to how even though some of the group members weren't nice to her at first, they saved her life and took her in nevertheless and how they were growing her. Some more than others obviously.
Lilly puts a disgusted face on after hearing that Clementine has started to take a liking to the cabin group.
Lilly: Sorry Clementine, but Carver wants this group dead, but you don't need to worry Clementine. Carver will happily take you in after he hears that you aided us on taking out this group. Trust me, you'll be safe over there and won't have to worry about a thing. Unlike what your group did to me.
Clementine tries to reason with Lilly, but Lilly is too stubborn to listen.
Lilly: Search them and strip them of all their weapons!
The bandits search the whole group and takes any weapons they have on them (including Luke's machete 
).
Lilly orders his group to get all of the members of the cabin group on their knees and he pulls out a pistol. Lilly starts executing them one by one. Luke felt a great rage after seeing his friends getting murdered in front of him and tries to stop Lilly, but was immediately struck at the back of his head by the butt of one of the bandit's guns.
After Lilly finishes off Alvin, Nick, Carlos (not the doctor!), Pete (Determinant), and even Sarah. Now it was Luke's turn and right before Lilly pulls the trigger, Clementine screams a loud "Nooo! Not him please." While Clementine is trying to hold in her emotions.
Lilly faces towards Clementine and hands her his pistol.
Lilly: Here I want you to do it.
Clementine: Bu... But...
Lilly: It's obvious that you have some kind of compassion towards him. Trust me, you'll thank me later. Losing my father was hard, but now I know it was for the best. It made me stronger and straightened out my priorities. Which is that survival is the only thing that's important.
Lilly backs off and orders his group to lower their guns momentarily. Clementine points the gun at Luke hesitantly.
Luke: Clementine just do it. You deserve a better life than this.
Clementine: People die because of me. Clementine begins to break down, trying to hold back her tears. First Lee, Omid, Christa and now y...
Luke: Hold on. Hold on! Luke interrupts Clementine. You seriously think that? You think you're responsible for their deaths? Because none of it...NONE OF IT is true! So don't you DARE, blame yourself for their deaths. It has never been your fault, ever! I need you to see that... I'm begging you. Luke starts to shed tears.
This causes Clementine to bursts into tears as she is slowly lowering the gun.
Lilly: SHOOT HIM! You've known him all of what? A few days? I've been with you since the beginning. I've took care of you when Lee went on supply runs with Kenny. I see that you still have my hairbands so that means you still care about me somewhat. Right? After this, you don't have to worry about a thing. Also, you owe me after that RV incident. So, just do it... for me.
[Shoot Luke] or [Shoot Lilly and her bandits]
I wanted to write more, but if you did read through it then I didn't want to have you read anymore. So, who do you choose to shoot. Spoilers! Neither choice will kill Clementine. You will just choose who Clementine will stay with.
Comments
Man that would be a tough scenario but I would to go with....Fuck Man Im shooting Luke
TeamMoustache
Wish people would stop using this fucking annoying gif.
Really?!
The gif itself was pretty funny at first IMO, But it got boring after this guy used it about 20 times in the last two days
Wow, I must say that's an interesting scenario. I would have to say that I would shoot Luke (even though I wouldn't want to).
I agree! There is a time to use it and a time not to use it, and right now is not a time to use it.
Wtf, I'm obviously shooting Kenny. If he does this to Alvin and Pete, then that dick is no longer a friend. Bitchecca is preferable to him. Luke and Clem are bros 4 lyfe.
This doesn't sound like something Kenny would do, even after 2 years. He's not one for following someone blindly, which is the main reason why he conflicted with Lilly.
Agreed.
Even though I find Luke pure evil. At least he's subtle about it. In my playthrough, it was pretty obvious that Kenny wanted my Lee dead. He was kind of straightforward about him not liking Lee (well at least my Lee). He actually never did anything for Clem either. In the end, I would shoot Kenny.
That would be a hard scene to get through for sure. It would be one of those decisions where I'd have to pause the game and really think about who deserves life more and who Clem would be better off with. I'd probably shoot Kenny in this situation.
Edit for Lilly scenario: Still shoot her and her bandits. It just wouldn't be as hard a decision for me.
In THIS scenario I'd side with Luke and shoot "Kenny" and his bandits.
In a REAL choice between Luke and Kenny, I'd side with Kenny. Your post throws all of Kenny's character development in Episode 5 out of the window, which is when he finally became a good person, even if he's still a bit of an ass. Even at his worst in Season 1, Kenny would never execute a child or a pregnant woman just in the name of making some bandit leader happy. And he would never make Clementine shoot someone, just for the sake of teaching her "a lesson." You described the psychopaths who ran Crawford, not Kenny.
Why do you say Luke is pure evil? He did do things for Clem, like giving her some food and actually took an interest in her.
She is the ultimate Luke hater ! Her threads about him are hilarious
Well, I'm kind of describing him as Merle. You know how Merle was kind of an ass to everyone, but his family (his brother Daryl)? Kind of like Kenny was to everyone, but his family and Lee (only if you agree with him in just about everything). If Carver saved Kenny then maybe Kenny feels like he owes something to Carver. He could be thinking that this would help Clementine and that Carver can help her like he helped him. Who knows what two years could have done to Kenny. Remember, what does Kenny have to live for? His family is gone, the boat was stolen, Lee is dead, everyone he ever known is either dead or missing. Two years of this could make anyone go mad.
I suppose, but seriously, a man like Kenny going that far? Turning into a good-for-nothing bandit blindly following orders? He isn't one to just give up, he said so himself. I dunno, I just don't get it.
We never know; some really fucked up shit can happen in two years.
You do know that Kenny wanted Lee to drop Ben (who I consider a kid) down a bell tower to be eaten alive by walkers. What about that time when he crushed Larry's head with a salt lick because he was worried about HIS family. I remember that time that he left Lee to die twice (which would have left Clementine alone with no one to take care of her which could have led to her death) because I didn't want to take part in murdering Larry. You could argue that he saved you in episode 1, but that was at the very beginning of the apocalypse, day 3 to be exact, if I'm correct. It seems like the more time progresses in the apocalypse, the worse Kenny gets. You saw how suicidal he was. If he is still alive for almost two more years after episode 5 with nothing to fight for and no one to be his moral compass. He might be a little messed up. If you're going off of episode 5, then I could say that is Clementine episode 1 of season 2 the same as episode 5 of season 1? No because she has hardened a lot since then, so imagine Kenny. Though I did exaggerate Kenny being antagonizing.
I don't consider joining the bandits as giving up. Like you said he doesn't give up. His number one priority is to survive at all costs. Remember, Lee could have been a bandit if it weren't for Clem coming into his life and being his moral compass.
I don't give a shit what Kenny's character is like when he returns in season 2. If it comes down to save Luke or save Kenny... RIP Luke.
He no longer has a family to care for. I highly doubt it's a factor anymore. Despite all the dickish shit he did, his character wouldn't do a 180 in terms of its decision making and morality. The apocalypse would change people, but not like that.
Ben got Kenny's entire family killed, then lied about it for days. That's a bit different than wanting to kill some child who just showed up out of nowhere and did nothing to him. In the meat locker, Kenny wasn't killing just for Teh Evulz, he was smashing Larry's head in so he wouldn't come back. Whether he was right in doing so, we'll never know. If you didn't agree with Kenny he was a real prick. I'm a huge Kenny fan, and I freely admit that the things he did in Episodes 3 and 4 were most times selfish, cold, downright horrible. Especially leaving Lee to die over the Larry incident. But in Episode 5, he set aside all of the bad feelings he had for everyone else. If survival WAS his one true goal, he wouldn't have locked himself in the alley to try and save Ben, the kid who'd gotten his family killed. He managed to forgive Ben in about a day's time. He wouldn't have jumped down into the building for Christa if he was focused on survival, because it was a one way trip.
Kenny got worse as the apocalypse went on, but he got better in Episode 5. He had an epiphany. Sure, if he shows up he could still be a bit short tempered and pragmatic, but in the situation you described, he was executing helpless prisoners, including women and children. That's not pragmatism, that's murder. Whatever Kenny may have been in Season 1, by the time we see him last in Episode 5, he's no murderer. That's what Crawford would do. Even Kenny is sickened at the thought of killing children when he hears about it from Molly.
I read it and agree.
I feel like you're underestimating Kenny. One of two things will happen. He either was rescued by a good, honest group, he will have changed his ways, and will be a decent man next time we see him. The alternative is that he was either rescued, captured, or recruited with the bandits and you have to remember. Kenny was with a decent group for four months and he was a dick. Imagine him being around with murderers (that aren't trying to seek redemption or doesn't have regret) and rapists (not saying he will be involved with it, but it will mess him up big time) for almost 2 YEARS. That's almost six times as long as he's been with the original group.
No, you're the one underestimating Kenny. He wouldn't stoop so low. It would throw out the season of characterization they gave him.
Ben didn't lie about it, he just simply avoided it. Kenny never asked "Ben, did you kill my family indirectly" and Ben never replied "nope." He was willing to let Lee, you know his friend who saved his son at the farm, defended his son at the drugstore, and fed him and his son when they were starving, to die because Lee didn't want to jump the gun on killing Larry until he has exhausted all his options. Apparently, he rather have a friend who would murder on his command than a friend who would care for his family as his own. His one goal is survival because if he is alive in season 2 then that means he escaped from the alley or building which is something a person who wants to survive would do. If you drop Ben then Kenny is happy that he is dead and he never forgives him. I may have exaggerated on killing Rebecca's unborn child, but Kenny did kill his own son (Determinant) and a kid walker (Determinant). An unborn baby isn't too far fetched after almost if not 2 years after these events of season 1 happened. A lot can happen in 2 years. Good or bad is what we're about to find out in the second episode.
Kenny's got his mustache, so that will cause a lot of biased choices to kill Luke. d:
I haven't really gotten to know Luke much while I had an entire season to get to know Kenny. Honestly, he can be a serious dick sometimes if you aren't his bro at all times, but if you are his bro at all times....he is a true friend. Besides, regardless, trading his life for Christa's/attempting to save Ben makes me want to choose him. I would probably choose Kenny.
Yes, my decision is biased, I had a whole season to get to know Kenny, of course my decision is biased.
Season 1 was 2 years ago. An outbreak like this changes people. 4 months after the outbreak started, Kenny was different in the second episode than in the first. He got progressively worse in the season until his sacrifice (I respect him for that). If he's alive then what? Is he going to fly off and start fighting crime? No. He has one goal and that's to survive. Whatever he has to do to survive is up to him, but the word survive usually means that there may be some unpleasantness involved.
When you wrote this, did you take out the name Lilly and replace it with Kenny because these are the kind of things she would do. Kenny may be a lot of things but a cold blooded murderer isn't one of them.
Even if Ben never outright lied about it, he still got Katjaa and Duck killed. They were Kenny's only reason for living up until that point. I think it's understandable that Kenny would want him dead in that scenario, don't you? And to Kenny's credit, after they all get back from Crawford, Kenny doesn't shoot Ben. Kenny had a gun on him the entire time, and after the initial shock and rage subsided after escaping Crawford, he never tries to get revenge. Like I said, he's no murderer. Back then, he was a rage-filled, fair weather friend, with a selfish streak a mile wide, but he never murdered people in cold blood. Even if Lee drops Ben, the simple fact that Kenny WOULD forgive Ben after he had time to cool down means that Kenny can still be a good person.
Just being alive doesn't mean that his one goal is survival. He realized he couldn't save Ben, so after he mercy killed him, escaping the alley doesn't mean he's a "survival at all costs" kind of guy anymore. Same with Christa. In fact, he had absolutely NO reason to stay in that room once she had been pulled up, so why would he stay? He certainly wasn't suicidal in that scene. There is a difference between not wanting to die, and doing whatever it takes to survive.
Duck was bitten, and he was dying. That's not killing a child, that's saving him from a fate worse than death. The zombie in the attic wasn't a kid, it was a walking corpse. The only time Kenny ever killed a child was when the child was to put said child out of their misery. Killing an unborn baby is extremely far fetched, especially for someone so family/group centric as Kenny.
I couldn't agree more.
But Kenny was a leader, until the very end. He did things his own way, as an independent. He wouldn't become some bandit fucktard, no matter what 'surviving' had to be done. He would wander as a broken man, if nothing else. Christa, Clem, the cabin survivors, Rick and Co. in the comics, they've all been through as much shit and haven't had their personalities flip around.
Kenny was not a leader. Leaders don't do things their own way or as an independent. That's what a lone wolf does. A leader is someone who would lead a group and uses teamwork to accomplish a task rather than he try to take it head on by himself. You just gave a double negative there. If Kenny was broken then how would he survive for 2 years. I think if he was a broken man then he would accept death gracefully. To counter your argument about those people flipping personalities. Christa even though she had Clementine, she definitely changed to being more colder and crueler after Omid's death. The cabin group had each other and some family in the group. Rick had Carl and his group who he considered family. Kenny has no one, but he, himself, and him... oh and the walkers.
This isn't Kenny... If Lee was watching this and he had the power to get resurrected and teleport to them i bet your ass he would (Knock some sense into Kenny part 2) for making Clem do something like that.
You say that Ben killed Kenny's family, but it's not that simple, there's more to it. For an example, I could say it was Lilly's fault for not wanting to leave the motel sooner. I could say it was Lee's fault for hugging Clementine after she ran to the RV rather than covering Katjaa and Duck until they got to the RV. I could even say it was Clementine's fault for distracting Lee and letting Duck get bitten. You see what I mean? The Devil is in the details. Could you imagine if Kenny wanted Lee or Clementine dead because of that? It's all about empathy.
Just because he didn't shoot Ben the first chance he got doesn't make him a saint. The group was probably holding him back and if he pulled a stunt like that then he may have been kicked out of the group since they would think he's unstable and might kill again. He wanted Lee to drop Ben so the group wouldn't ask twice about it.
Christa was all about survival. Who knows what she may have been capable of. I mean she killed an unarmed kid (she deserved it though). In the alleyway scene he gets bit, so that means if he is going to appear in season 2 then he had to have done an amputation on himself which I consider doing whatever it takes to survive.
Kenny could consider killing Rebecca's baby as doing that baby a favor or putting him/her out of a future misery. Kenny doesn't want this child to be raised in a world like this where at any turn, a walker could bite you or eat you alive. Families don't end well in the apocalypse, Kenny knows that first hand.
Morgan from the comics? Michonne? Ezekiel? A lot of people went through worse than Kenny, and were fine. A leader has the ability to take charge and do what needs to be done, which is exactly what Kenny did. He and Lilly had power struggles for the entirety of episodes 1 and 2 and for part of 3.
Kenny was broken, but a broken man can survive. Again I refer to Morgan.
Christa was changed, more brooding and solemn, but she wasn't fucking punting adorable baby penguins for shits and giggles or executing children and pregnant women like your hypothetical Kenny.
I agree with some of the arguments you're making, but a lot of what you're saying is contradictory.
If you save Ben, Kenny sacrifices himself to put the teenager out of his misery. If you don't save Ben, he sacrifices himself to save a pregnant woman (Christa). He showed concern for Clementine, and was very attached to his son Duck. It doesn't make sense for him to kill a pregnant woman or child.
Additionally, how is Kenny suicidal? After he sees the couple that killed themselves in episode 5, he takes a stance AGAINST suicide, saying that you have to "stick it out" in tough times. His sacrifice later on in the episode is very dangerous, but assuming that he survived, there's no way that he intended to kill himself. He fired two bullets if he rescued Ben, and surviving means that he used one on Ben and used the second one to fight for his life rather than commit suicide. If he sacrifices himself for Christa, he tells Lee, Omid, and Christa to "Go! I'll be [fine]" and struggles to save himself rather than accepting his fate.
Maybe if Kenny doesn't do the killing in this scenario, it'd be a bit more realistic.
I haven't read the comics so you have the upper hand on this one. I can say though that Morgan from the show went berserk after losing his son and Rick never coming back after a lot of time has passed. Just like how a lot of time has passed since season 1 to season 2. I don't know who Ezekiel is sorry, but I do know who Michonne is. The thing is, Michonne's and Kenny's personality are different, Very different. They cope with stressful situations differently. Comparing Kenny to Michonne is like comparing Clem to Carl. They're two different people.
Kenny was not a leader and never wanted to be one. It was more of a democracy. If anyone was a leader though then it was obviously Lee. Again I refer to Morgan going bat shit crazy and trying to kill Rick while calling him a dead man. He almost even killed him too.
Well, Christa did execute Michelle who looks like she's Sarah's age if not a bit younger for killing Omid. You could argue that she deserved it, but nevertheless she dropped the gun and was unarmed. She even begged to Christa by telling her she didn't mean to, but Christa shot her in the abdominal region and let her just bleed to death. Brutal.
I know it's just a hypothetical not a prediction or theory.
The thing is if he shows a lot of concern for Clementine then why do I have to persuade him to come with me if I didn't agree with him %100 of the time? If you tell him "I need you," he says "you're on your own on this one." If Lee's not Kenny's slave to his every will then I guess Lee and Clementine could go die for all he cares. Obviously he was attached to Duck. That's his son. I would be worried if he wasn't attached to his only son.
Kenny was suicidal by locking himself in an alleyway full of walkers with one bullet (Determinant) and "no way out" (I guess there was). He could have shot Ben and kept going to find Clementine, but instead he took on a herd of walkers coming from both sides with only one bullet (Determinant). If that doesn't scream suicidal then I don't know what does.
People die because of me
This line needs to happen in S2