Forgiveness isn't an option I agree but if there's another way I'm not going to kill them. Though that might change depending on the situation. I play with a "Don't kill anyone if you don't have to" mindset but I've been known to have exceptions to this rule.
Well I'm seeing the final episode play out where we'll be forced to choose between killing Ludd or Gryff, I really doubt we're going to get both. With that in mind, I believe Gwyn will be able to understand why we're doing what we're doing, she didn't seem to really grasp how far gone her father was until episode 4 but now I think she knows his true intentions, and once she hears what Gryff has done, I'm fairly confident she'll see that herkin have become blood-thirsty monsters.
As long as we're not going as far to kill innocent folk in their keep, I doubt Gwyn would have much trouble with us doing what needs to be done, and frankly I'm expecting one of the two to use her as a human shield which will only ground out perfectly that they need to be stopped.
Killing an entire bloodline may seem like the best option and I'd agree if not for the fact that there is good still in that bloodline. Whether or not you have Asher, I think she could be a pivotal piece at creating true peace between these to houses for all. Where as if we subject ourselves to the barbarism of just killing everyone at Highpoint, then don't be surprised when Ludd's other son comes knocking with an army in tow and you've got no defense for it.
Basically, I believe the chance for peace is there and always will be there as long as Gwyn is alive. The moment she dies, then the Forrester's have truly doomed themselves.
I am bewildered that so many people want to be with Gwyn.
I am going to kill both Ludd and Gryff, I can't imagine Gwyn marrying the man w… moreho kills her father and brother. She could cut Asher's throat in his sleep, she could petition for Torrhen to raise an army to rescue her, she has several possible outlets for revenge if we keep her in Ironrath or even alive for that matter.
Can somebody explain how this is a good idea? I understand the need to give Asher heirs and secure Forrester claim over Highpoint, but won't things be a little too far gone? I'd honestly rather have a kid with Beskha.
The Forresters and the Whitehills remind me of the Blackwoods and the Brackens from the novel. They hate each other and no matter how many kings try to settle their feud, they end up at each others throats (usually because of the Brackens). Can't help but feel like this is a similar situation in which we need to simply exterminate the entire bloodline.
She has two brothers: Ebbert but he's training to be a maester at the Citadel so he shouldn't be a threat. Then there's Torrhen, he serves Roose Bolton and will likely become head of the House once Ludd and Gryff are dead which I expect is what the Boltons want.
I am bewildered that so many people want to be with Gwyn.
I am bewildered that anyone at all ever trusted Gywn, let alone liked her.
First time we meet her, she's showing up at the funeral for a teenage boy whose father was basically responsible for his murder. That's pretty goddamn disrespectful at worst and just plain tacky at best.
Second time we meet her, she's all "Oh, I want peace between our families, and by peace I mean I want you to let my arrogant blowhard father take whatever he wants, also just lick the boots of my petulant, smarmy, tantrum-throwing brother as he trashes your homestead. Let my family just shit all over yours, that way we don't have to fight anymore! See? Peace!"
And if you say anything like gee Gwyn that kind of sounds like a maybe not a thing I'm really that into, submitting to your asshole brother in my own house, she gets REAL shitty with you real quick.
And regardless of how you play it when you go to meet Ludd and everything goes predictably south, Gwyn is all "Rodrik, I'm so sorry!" like she's completely shocked her raging asshole of a father is acting like an asshole
UGH
Asher I know love is blind but truly it is a wonderful thing that you got to spend four years hanging out with Beskha who is seven million times cooler than Gwyn anyway, even if she's not into you but that's what brothers are for. You dodged a bullet.
Girl I am coming to kill your big dumb bodyguard Harys, and then I'm going to bash your whiny Draco Malfoy brother's face so much that no Telltale bug could ever fix it, and then I'm going to put my blade through your fat father's throat for Ethan. I'll let you live but I am going to drink your bitter sketchy-ass tears out of a golden goblet and they will be delicious
(I may have gotten a little worked up as I was typing that out. I don't like her, is what I'm saying.)
I am bewildered that so many people want to be with Gwyn.
I am going to kill both Ludd and Gryff, I can't imagine Gwyn marrying the man w… moreho kills her father and brother. She could cut Asher's throat in his sleep, she could petition for Torrhen to raise an army to rescue her, she has several possible outlets for revenge if we keep her in Ironrath or even alive for that matter.
Can somebody explain how this is a good idea? I understand the need to give Asher heirs and secure Forrester claim over Highpoint, but won't things be a little too far gone? I'd honestly rather have a kid with Beskha.
The Forresters and the Whitehills remind me of the Blackwoods and the Brackens from the novel. They hate each other and no matter how many kings try to settle their feud, they end up at each others throats (usually because of the Brackens). Can't help but feel like this is a similar situation in which we need to simply exterminate the entire bloodline.
As long as a single Whitehill remains, the Forresters are in danger. Maybe there was a chance for peace but as soon as they killed Asher/Rodrik they have proven that the two houses cannot co-exist. Ramsay alredy stated that and both houses existing would likely cut into the Ironwood profits. Thus it would be disadvantageous for the Boltons. If house Forrester is to survive, the Whitehills must die.
I am bewildered that so many people want to be with Gwyn.
I am bewildered that anyone at all ever trusted Gywn, let alone liked her.… more
First time we meet her, she's showing up at the funeral for a teenage boy whose father was basically responsible for his murder. That's pretty goddamn disrespectful at worst and just plain tacky at best.
Second time we meet her, she's all "Oh, I want peace between our families, and by peace I mean I want you to let my arrogant blowhard father take whatever he wants, also just lick the boots of my petulant, smarmy, tantrum-throwing brother as he trashes your homestead. Let my family just shit all over yours, that way we don't have to fight anymore! See? Peace!"
And if you say anything like gee Gwyn that kind of sounds like a maybe not a thing I'm really that into, submitting to your asshole brother in my own house, she gets REAL shitty with you real quick.
And regardless of how you play it whe… [view original content]
I don't see how her showing up to a funeral to pay her respects is disrespectful/tacky. She's simply trying to show some respect towards the Forrester's for their loss, it's not like she showed up and spat on the dead or came drunk. Plus, I don't think you can you really blame Ludd for Ethan's death, regardless of how good an offer or argument you make for your house, Ramsay's sick desires take hold and he antagonizes the whole situation, the worst Ludd ever did in the 1st episode was make threats, not Ludd's fault for Ramsay's crazy spill.
And I really feel that lots of people take that meeting the wrong way and I get why they see it as nothing but negative but I just don't think you were looking at the bigger picture here. Yes, she was telling us to submit but only temporarily and for good reason. The majority of the Forrester forces died at the Red Wedding, a Forrester lord just died and the newest one is still in no shape to actually fight back, and she knows how much of a lose cannon her brother can be. Gwyn is afraid that any act of rebellion will end in a bloody Whitehill sword so she is looking out for house Forrester whether you realize it or not.
And of course she's shocked at how quickly the whole situation escalated in episode 4. It's obvious that she hasn't seen her father go as far to threaten a child's life, not something that happens everyday at her house. Do you really think in every instance where we talked with Gryff/Ludd that they went back to Highpoint and didn't make it sound more like we were the irrational ones? Ultimately, Gwyn is only hearing one side of the story but thankfully it appears she's skeptical enough to know what she's hearing from her kin isn't the whole truth.
So I get people's immediate feelings against her, but when she's proven to be an ally to us (telling us about the traitor and it being true) I just don't understand why there's still so much hate towards her when she has done nothing but aide us.
I am bewildered that so many people want to be with Gwyn.
I am bewildered that anyone at all ever trusted Gywn, let alone liked her.… more
First time we meet her, she's showing up at the funeral for a teenage boy whose father was basically responsible for his murder. That's pretty goddamn disrespectful at worst and just plain tacky at best.
Second time we meet her, she's all "Oh, I want peace between our families, and by peace I mean I want you to let my arrogant blowhard father take whatever he wants, also just lick the boots of my petulant, smarmy, tantrum-throwing brother as he trashes your homestead. Let my family just shit all over yours, that way we don't have to fight anymore! See? Peace!"
And if you say anything like gee Gwyn that kind of sounds like a maybe not a thing I'm really that into, submitting to your asshole brother in my own house, she gets REAL shitty with you real quick.
And regardless of how you play it whe… [view original content]
Here's the thing - I could argue this point by point with you - Ludd brought Ramsay to Ironrath, and I could quote Rodrik's line about how Ramsay held the knife but the Whitehills sharpened the blade when he was talking about Arthur's death, and apply that same logic to Ethan. And how it was very convenient for Gwyn's secret plan to entirely benefit HER family and that throwing Rodrik a bone about how there was a traitor on his council was really only a superficial concession to make it seem like she was helping - she didn't know who it was, she didn't know what her father's secret plans were - she was getting Rodrik to submit to the whims of her family while giving him nothing of real substance. She gained a whole lot from that deal while losing almost nothing, he lost a lot and gained little.
But I also realize how it could be read as she really did care, was trying to be a true ally in the best way she could, so it's not that I'm not "looking at the bigger picture here" or that she was helping "whether I realize it or not." I think an argument could be made either way, I think Telltale probably wrote her with that in mind, but they are also pretty good at ambiguity, and that's why these forums are so lively with debates. I just didn't like her and I didn't trust her, but I don't actually think she's some sort of Cersei-level malevolent manipulator. Point is, I understand your perspective. I saw and felt it differently, I distrusted her and felt she was working more in the best interests of her family than a true desire to help ours.
Mostly I just sometimes end up getting carried away and making hyperbolic, impassionate rants on forums about things which I have feelings about.
(Side note: it might be the lack of sleep getting to me but the mental image of us being introduced to Gwyn by her showing up drunk at the funeral and spitting on the corpses made me laugh so hard my dogs came to investigate. That would have been horrible but also that would have been so great. I am terrible.)
I don't see how her showing up to a funeral to pay her respects is disrespectful/tacky. She's simply trying to show some respect towards the… more Forrester's for their loss, it's not like she showed up and spat on the dead or came drunk. Plus, I don't think you can you really blame Ludd for Ethan's death, regardless of how good an offer or argument you make for your house, Ramsay's sick desires take hold and he antagonizes the whole situation, the worst Ludd ever did in the 1st episode was make threats, not Ludd's fault for Ramsay's crazy spill.
And I really feel that lots of people take that meeting the wrong way and I get why they see it as nothing but negative but I just don't think you were looking at the bigger picture here. Yes, she was telling us to submit but only temporarily and for good reason. The majority of the Forrester forces died at the Red Wedding, a Forrester lord just died and the newest one is still in no shape to actually f… [view original content]
True true, I think we'll just leave it at that then. I'd debate more but we'd more or less just be doing the internet version of fisticuffs lol And how dare you get swept up by your emotions man! This is a forum! Not some highschool poetry reading! lol
That's like the 2nd or 3rd time I've made someone bust a gut unintentionally but glad regardless! XD
Here's the thing - I could argue this point by point with you - Ludd brought Ramsay to Ironrath, and I could quote Rodrik's line about how R… moreamsay held the knife but the Whitehills sharpened the blade when he was talking about Arthur's death, and apply that same logic to Ethan. And how it was very convenient for Gwyn's secret plan to entirely benefit HER family and that throwing Rodrik a bone about how there was a traitor on his council was really only a superficial concession to make it seem like she was helping - she didn't know who it was, she didn't know what her father's secret plans were - she was getting Rodrik to submit to the whims of her family while giving him nothing of real substance. She gained a whole lot from that deal while losing almost nothing, he lost a lot and gained little.
But I also realize how it could be read as she really did care, was trying to be a true ally in the best way she could, so it's not that I'm not "l… [view original content]
Therefore marriage with Gwyn would not accomplish anything because there's Torrhen, slaughtering all the Whitehills is not possible because there's far-away Torrhen (who is not likely to appear just in the final episode) and so there's no ending the war with Forresters winning once and for all (even more unsettling that no Forrester is safe from death by now). I see what you did here Telltale. Brace yourselves, cliffhangers unto the 2nd season are coming.
She has two brothers: Ebbert but he's training to be a maester at the Citadel so he shouldn't be a threat. Then there's Torrhen, he serves R… moreoose Bolton and will likely become head of the House once Ludd and Gryff are dead which I expect is what the Boltons want.
Not really contradictory. If they are all dead then there will be nobody to seek revenge on their behalf and the Forresters can live in peace without a greedy up-jumped bully for a rival house.
Great point about them being unable to coexist, especially considering the precious Ironwood resources.
I'm just wondering if literally every Whitehill has to die. I mean if Gwyn was the only one left alive the Whitehill line will still technically be extinguished.
I'm of a similar mind to you though.... every Whitehill must die.
As long as a single Whitehill remains, the Forresters are in danger. Maybe there was a chance for peace but as soon as they killed Asher/Rod… morerik they have proven that the two houses cannot co-exist. Ramsay alredy stated that and both houses existing would likely cut into the Ironwood profits. Thus it would be disadvantageous for the Boltons. If house Forrester is to survive, the Whitehills must die.
(It's almost like Voldemort and Harry Potter...)
Not really contradictory. If they are all dead then there will be nobody to seek revenge on their behalf and the Forresters can live in peace without a greedy up-jumped bully for a rival house.
Awesome point about the two houses cannot co-exist.
Peace is all fine and good, but when the power behind the Whitehills doesn't want peace, then it simply isn't an option. That's why I have Rodrik say "We are going for war." in episode 5. By that point, my Rodrik knew that peace can never happen as long as the Whitehills want all of them dead. His only option is to fight back.
As long as a single Whitehill remains, the Forresters are in danger. Maybe there was a chance for peace but as soon as they killed Asher/Rod… morerik they have proven that the two houses cannot co-exist. Ramsay alredy stated that and both houses existing would likely cut into the Ironwood profits. Thus it would be disadvantageous for the Boltons. If house Forrester is to survive, the Whitehills must die.
(It's almost like Voldemort and Harry Potter...)
That does not prove they can not co-exist at all. While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prove that the houses could not come to some agreement. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks. Plus, no one has any idea what ideals the other brother (not the maester) holds, he may very well be just as peace-seeking as Gwyn, we simply don't know.
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end in their favor; they secure the profits and products from the surviving house, and there is no more fighting among these houses. In the end, this is just Ramsay playing everyone for a fool since he expects blood to spill, and while I do expect there to be more spilled regardless, if peace were made then we could avoid unnecessary blood spilled.
The Whitehill bloodline does not need to be purged entirely, it's simply suffering from a severe tumor, if you remove the tumor(s), then the problems will go away. Again, I can't say how the other brother may react to this at all, but I'd rather not piss off a potential enemy when the Forresters will be at another weakened state again.
Simply because a friendly state has not existed before does not mean one can't happen now, but just wanting to kill any and all who may pose a threat makes the attacker a greater monster than the one they were trying to defeat.
As long as a single Whitehill remains, the Forresters are in danger. Maybe there was a chance for peace but as soon as they killed Asher/Rod… morerik they have proven that the two houses cannot co-exist. Ramsay alredy stated that and both houses existing would likely cut into the Ironwood profits. Thus it would be disadvantageous for the Boltons. If house Forrester is to survive, the Whitehills must die.
(It's almost like Voldemort and Harry Potter...)
I would destroy the Whitehills with the most gratuitous forms of violence if it meant no more feuds and violence for Ryon and Talia and even their children and their children's children.
Just being pragmatic; would you rather me spare just a few family members and then we have a similar situation a few years down the line? Hell to the fuck no. No more Whitehills = no more Forrester/Whitehill feud.
Nope, I simply cannot agree that the Forresters would be the bigger monsters for retaliating.
The Whitehills have been tormenting the Forresters. Mocking their dead children, threatening their living ones, it is completely fucked up that a house would treat anybody this way just for power and Ironwood. My blood boils just thinking about how sadistic the Whitehills have been.
Not only is the situation incredibly personal, but the lives of either house are literally at stake.
To paraphrase Royland: "only cowards and dead men roll over"
That does not prove they can not co-exist at all. While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prov… moree that the houses could not come to some agreement. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks. Plus, no one has any idea what ideals the other brother (not the maester) holds, he may very well be just as peace-seeking as Gwyn, we simply don't know.
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end in their favor; they secure the profits and products from the surviving house, and there is no more fighting among these houses. In the end, this is just Ramsay playing everyone for a fool since he expects blood to spill, and while I do expect there to b… [view original content]
Yes, both houses have suffered and whether you realize it or not, the Whitehills have suffered too. And because of that suffering, that's why he's wanting to take advantage of the situation and make it so his family will be on top. Believe it or not, there was a time that both houses worked in alliance, I recall Gwyn mentioning it and showing Rodrik a shield with both house's emblems on them in Highpoint. That shield reinforces my beliefs that peace can be attained if under the right conditions.
You can stay in disbelief all you like that you wouldn't become the greater fiend if you chose to kill an entire line, especially when you know damn well there are good people, but in the end that's exactly what you'd become. Like I said, I understand and agree that certain people need to be purged from the Whitehills, but a couple terrible people does not meant the entire line should die.
Well Royland's dead in my game so really his phrases don't matter much to me and his whole ideology focused more on doing exactly what you and others are so willing to do. Personally I prefer this quote, "He who seeks revenge should remember to dig two graves."
Nope, I simply cannot agree that the Forresters would be the bigger monsters for retaliating.
The Whitehills have been tormenting the For… moreresters. Mocking their dead children, threatening their living ones, it is completely fucked up that a house would treat anybody this way just for power and Ironwood. My blood boils just thinking about how sadistic the Whitehills have been.
Not only is the situation incredibly personal, but the lives of either house are literally at stake.
To paraphrase Royland: "only cowards and dead men roll over"
Eleana all the way, even if Asher is alive instead of Rodrik. I wouldn't trust Gwyn not to stab my surviving brother in the middle of the night after they finish dealing with her family.
Peace could be attained but for how long? Ludd showed up raging at Ethan over some stuff that Gregor did forever ago. This type of feud is generational, the families just have bad history and no matter how many good apples are on either side there will be bad ones to spoil things. And dispatching of the bad apples isn't as easy as you'd lead us to think since they do, after all, have family members.
Even more so it is a blood feud by this point. Two Lord's (one a child) dead at the hands of Whitehills, one directly and one somewhat less directly. I say that because Ludd didn't actually kill Ethan, he just said some cold-blooded shit and abducted their even younger child.
For fucks sake dude, the Whitehills are destroying the Forresters, it's just that they are taking their sweet time about it and running our faces into the dirt before they do. The only somewhat peaceful solution is thralldom, which as I said would simply result in more violence and contention in the future.
Basically I think the Forresters should sooner hunt down every Whitehill heir before making some sort of ticking time bomb of a peace treaty with them. Fuck the Whitehills.
Yes, both houses have suffered and whether you realize it or not, the Whitehills have suffered too. And because of that suffering, that's wh… morey he's wanting to take advantage of the situation and make it so his family will be on top. Believe it or not, there was a time that both houses worked in alliance, I recall Gwyn mentioning it and showing Rodrik a shield with both house's emblems on them in Highpoint. That shield reinforces my beliefs that peace can be attained if under the right conditions.
You can stay in disbelief all you like that you wouldn't become the greater fiend if you chose to kill an entire line, especially when you know damn well there are good people, but in the end that's exactly what you'd become. Like I said, I understand and agree that certain people need to be purged from the Whitehills, but a couple terrible people does not meant the entire line should die.
Well Royland's dead in my game so really his phrases don… [view original content]
And that's your problem right there, you expect a poor outcome one way or another; Peace happens and it'll all turn to crap again or we just root out the problems now. It can be that easy, Gwyn is already turning to our side more than ever, and I believe those who had Asher die will see an even more eager Whitehill ready to help the Forresters again. And again, since we don't know the 3rd brothers intentions at this point, I won't say he is or isn't a threat since we simply don't know, he may very well die due to something or another. Slaughtering potential allies is people who have had no hand in the Forrester's loses is not acceptable and pathetic. Would you kill some young nieces or nephews of Gwyn simply because they had the Whitehill name and blood? Guess so, eye for an eye mentality right?
The only Whitehills doing this are the ones in power right now, once they're dealt with then why would you seek out the rest? Simply for the fear of them trying to attack again? That's your second problem, you and lots of others are letting fear take you over. You and I have no idea what may come of a time of peace other than a time for both houses to grow again, but attempting to exterminate an entire line will only lead to ruin. It's a disgusting thought and I'd sooner see the Forrester's die then let an entire bloodline genocide be on their hands and mine.
Peace could be attained but for how long? Ludd showed up raging at Ethan over some stuff that Gregor did forever ago. This type of feud is g… moreenerational, the families just have bad history and no matter how many good apples are on either side there will be bad ones to spoil things. And dispatching of the bad apples isn't as easy as you'd lead us to think since they do, after all, have family members.
Even more so it is a blood feud by this point. Two Lord's (one a child) dead at the hands of Whitehills, one directly and one somewhat less directly. I say that because Ludd didn't actually kill Ethan, he just said some cold-blooded shit and abducted their even younger child.
For fucks sake dude, the Whitehills are destroying the Forresters, it's just that they are taking their sweet time about it and running our faces into the dirt before they do. The only somewhat peaceful solution is thralldom, which as I said would simply result in more… [view original content]
While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prove that the houses could not come to some agreement. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks.
If you were paying attention, Gwyn doesn't have any kind of power. She is soft-hearted and kind but she is also naive if she thinks her father is willing to undergo peace with the Forresters. In fact, the only reason we have a chance of defeating them, is because of their in-fighting- their disputes that led Gwyn to betraying them. So no we cannot come into some agreement with them, if they cannot even come to some agreement with them-selves!
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end in their favor; they secure the profits and products from the surviving house, and there is no more fighting among these houses. In the end, this is just Ramsay playing everyone for a fool since he expects blood to spill, and while I do expect there to be more spilled regardless, if peace were made then we could avoid unnecessary blood spilled.
I know that it will end in the favor of the Boltons, that's the whole point! We have to win their favor in order to exist. We have to prove that we can do better than the Whitehills. The don't give a fuck about the Whitehills, they only care about profits. And we can't just "make" peace, Ramsay has said so himself! Like it or not, the Boltons are in charge and for now, we have to obey them.
Again, I can't say how the other brother may react to this at all, but I'd rather not piss off a potential enemy when the Forresters will be at another weakened state again.
You're forgetting that Torrhen serves the Boltons. The Boltons declared that either Forresters or Whitehills only may live and if the Forresters win than the Boltons will be pleased. And Torrhen can't do shit since he serves the Boltons. So he can't be a threat IF the people he serves are in league with us. And if he tries something, he'll become a traitor to the Boltons, he'll be hunted down. Yet another reason to kill all Whitehills.
Simply because a friendly state has not existed before does not mean one can't happen now, but just wanting to kill any and all who may pose a threat makes the attacker a greater monster than the one they were trying to defeat.
Look, if you show mercy to someone who has ABSOLUTELY no mercy for us, then you're a fool. The only outcome you can propose is putting Gwyn in charge. HOWEVER: If you kill her father and brother you cannot seriously expect her to offer any kind of help.
The only good outcome is the destruction of Whitehills. They are a weak house: family disputes, arrongant members, terrible reputation...
dying heritage ( Karl dead, Gryff soon to be dead, Ebbert a maester with no power and a lard in charge of it all) and they have no idea how to treat the Ironwood.
That does not prove they can not co-exist at all. While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prov… moree that the houses could not come to some agreement. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks. Plus, no one has any idea what ideals the other brother (not the maester) holds, he may very well be just as peace-seeking as Gwyn, we simply don't know.
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end in their favor; they secure the profits and products from the surviving house, and there is no more fighting among these houses. In the end, this is just Ramsay playing everyone for a fool since he expects blood to spill, and while I do expect there to b… [view original content]
Okay then your Forresters can be noble and die out and mine will exterminate the Whitehills instead. That settles it then.
Seriously though, it isn't pathetic to fight back against injustice. It's pathetic to lick the boots of a man who has killed your family and wishes for your destruction. They're called craven in Got.
And that's your problem right there, you expect a poor outcome one way or another; Peace happens and it'll all turn to crap again or we just… more root out the problems now. It can be that easy, Gwyn is already turning to our side more than ever, and I believe those who had Asher die will see an even more eager Whitehill ready to help the Forresters again. And again, since we don't know the 3rd brothers intentions at this point, I won't say he is or isn't a threat since we simply don't know, he may very well die due to something or another. Slaughtering potential allies is people who have had no hand in the Forrester's loses is not acceptable and pathetic. Would you kill some young nieces or nephews of Gwyn simply because they had the Whitehill name and blood? Guess so, eye for an eye mentality right?
The only Whitehills doing this are the ones in power right now, once they're dealt with then why would you seek out the rest? Simply for the fear … [view original content]
I'm paying attention quite well, I know Gwyn has no real power like a lord could have. There is no proof to say there is any in-fighting happening among the Whitehills, we have no idea if Ludd knows of her deceit. And I never said an agreement with them in regard to Ludd/Gryff, I've expressed many times that those are two very specific tumors that need to be dealt with before we can ever think of peace, once they're gone then yes, an agreement could be made.
And who says we both can't win? Merge both houses or come to the agreement. By doing that, the Boltons don't win at all and we could maintain the peace, as long as they still get their shipments of Ironwood and no more feuds happen, what's the issue?
I haven't forgotten about that brother at all. I'm more hesitant than afraid about him again, if peace were made than we may have just gained another ally instead of potentially creating a looming threat.
We're showing mercy to the right people unlike slaughtering an entire family simply because we're afraid. And I've got no idea who would be in charge at that point especially if Asher is dead in someone's game since his and Gwyn's marriage could be the first step to mending these houses. Otherwise then we'll find another way. Is it really so crazy to think she wouldn't be able to accept it? After seeing how far her father was willing to go in episode 4 and after hearing what happened to either Asher/Rodrik, I firmly believe we have a true ally in her.
That's a terrible outcome with them dying, they are quite the opposite of weak at this time given all they've gained and all we've lost. There is a chance for the Forrester's to win this feud and not turn it into a bloodbath. We could take them in and train them to be better craftsmen and make the Boltons happier with faster production, gain a solid force by combining the two houses soldiers, and put both families back on track towards a peace that they once knew and had. I never said making peace wouldn't be difficult, but the best things in life are just that.
While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prove that the houses could not come to some agreement… more. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks.
If you were paying attention, Gwyn doesn't have any kind of power. She is soft-hearted and kind but she is also naive if she thinks her father is willing to undergo peace with the Forresters. In fact, the only reason we have a chance of defeating them, is because of their in-fighting- their disputes that led Gwyn to betraying them. So no we cannot come into some agreement with them, if they cannot even come to some agreement with them-selves!
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end … [view original content]
Yup, we'll see what comes from either path come the 6th episode, can't wait! That's bound to be some good discussion and hey, if I'm wrong I'll admit it then but until then, we'll stay noble.
And I never said it was pathetic to fight against an injustice, I've said how many times that certain people do need to die, but not the whole lot of them. No one's boots are being licked, just trying to make sure we can mend wounds before those wounds fester and we all die.
Okay then your Forresters can be noble and die out and mine will exterminate the Whitehills instead. That settles it then.
Seriously thou… moregh, it isn't pathetic to fight back against injustice. It's pathetic to lick the boots of a man who has killed your family and wishes for your destruction. They're called craven in Got.
Yes we will see what happens when the finale is out, all this speculating is getting me hyped lol.
And to be honest, I'm still really torn about what to do with Gwyn. I saved Asher but as you can tell I just don't find the rest of her family redeemable and i doubt she'd be chill after I kill her father and brother. Decisions decisions.
Yup, we'll see what comes from either path come the 6th episode, can't wait! That's bound to be some good discussion and hey, if I'm wrong I… more'll admit it then but until then, we'll stay noble.
And I never said it was pathetic to fight against an injustice, I've said how many times that certain people do need to die, but not the whole lot of them. No one's boots are being licked, just trying to make sure we can mend wounds before those wounds fester and we all die.
The Whitehills kills Asher/Rodrik, the Forresters will never forgive that. The Forresters kills Ludd and Gryff and Gwyn and Torrhen will never forgive them. Even if we somehow managed to exile them or render them powerless, they will still hate the Forresters forever. And they will pass their hatred to whoever becomes their descendants and they will start a war against the descendants of the Forresters.
It is like the Targaryen and Blackfyre. The conflict between both houses lasted centuries and only ended once the Blackfyre got wiped out and extincted.
I see my decision to destroy the entire bloodline of the Whitehills as a way to permanently end this feud once and for all, so future generation of Forresters will never have to be troubled by them, even if I might as well continue this cycle.
Yes we will see what happens when the finale is out, all this speculating is getting me hyped lol.
And to be honest, I'm still really tor… moren about what to do with Gwyn. I saved Asher but as you can tell I just don't find the rest of her family redeemable and i doubt she'd be chill after I kill her father and brother. Decisions decisions.
OBJECTION!!! This case is far from closed...
I'm paying attention quite well, I know Gwyn has no real power like a lord could have. There… more is no proof to say there is any in-fighting happening among the Whitehills, we have no idea if Ludd knows of her deceit. And I never said an agreement with them in regard to Ludd/Gryff, I've expressed many times that those are two very specific tumors that need to be dealt with before we can ever think of peace, once they're gone then yes, an agreement could be made.
And who says we both can't win? Merge both houses or come to the agreement. By doing that, the Boltons don't win at all and we could maintain the peace, as long as they still get their shipments of Ironwood and no more feuds happen, what's the issue?
I haven't forgotten about that brother at all. I'm more hesitant than afraid about him again, if peace were made than we may have just gained another ally instead of potentially creating a… [view original content]
Yes, partially due to my belief we'll only end up able to kill one of them but yes. After fully realizing the horrors her family has committed, I think she will turn towards us. Mind you, I'm not expecting her to be happy about it, or even approachable for a little while, but I think she'll understand that it needed to happen.
You said that Gryff and Ludd are tumors that must be dealt with.
Do you truly believe that Gwyn would marry Asher if he killed her father and brother, who she probably cares about more than anybody?
Right? This is about as bad when we were all frantically trying to figure out who the traitor was, I live for these discussion!
Well that's good to hear that you're still kinda on the fence. There's been others whom I've tried to have a similar discussion too but it almost always ended in "Fuck the Whitehills" after the 2nd comment. Thanks for the good discussion about it!
Yes we will see what happens when the finale is out, all this speculating is getting me hyped lol.
And to be honest, I'm still really tor… moren about what to do with Gwyn. I saved Asher but as you can tell I just don't find the rest of her family redeemable and i doubt she'd be chill after I kill her father and brother. Decisions decisions.
Do you forget the motto: Whitehill is still a Whitehill? She will never forget or forgive, she'll stab us in the back. And what would there be to gain by letting Gwyn live? For the Boltons or the Forresters? It's as I said disadvantageous for the Boltons to allow the Whitehills- nearly destroyed house with one house member in charge to exist. They all have to die. They shattered their peace when stey murdered Rodrik/ Asher.
Yes, partially due to my belief we'll only end up able to kill one of them but yes. After fully realizing the horrors her family has committ… moreed, I think she will turn towards us. Mind you, I'm not expecting her to be happy about it, or even approachable for a little while, but I think she'll understand that it needed to happen.
Eleana all the way, even if Asher is alive instead of Rodrik. I wouldn't trust Gwyn not to stab my surviving brother in the middle of the night after they finish dealing with her family.
Comments
Forgiveness isn't an option I agree but if there's another way I'm not going to kill them. Though that might change depending on the situation. I play with a "Don't kill anyone if you don't have to" mindset but I've been known to have exceptions to this rule.
Depends, does Elaena have any more brothers or elder sisters? Will Roose go loose if I kill every male Whitehill and make Gwyn marry Ryon?
I'd rather end up with Beshka.
Well I'm seeing the final episode play out where we'll be forced to choose between killing Ludd or Gryff, I really doubt we're going to get both. With that in mind, I believe Gwyn will be able to understand why we're doing what we're doing, she didn't seem to really grasp how far gone her father was until episode 4 but now I think she knows his true intentions, and once she hears what Gryff has done, I'm fairly confident she'll see that herkin have become blood-thirsty monsters.
As long as we're not going as far to kill innocent folk in their keep, I doubt Gwyn would have much trouble with us doing what needs to be done, and frankly I'm expecting one of the two to use her as a human shield which will only ground out perfectly that they need to be stopped.
Killing an entire bloodline may seem like the best option and I'd agree if not for the fact that there is good still in that bloodline. Whether or not you have Asher, I think she could be a pivotal piece at creating true peace between these to houses for all. Where as if we subject ourselves to the barbarism of just killing everyone at Highpoint, then don't be surprised when Ludd's other son comes knocking with an army in tow and you've got no defense for it.
Basically, I believe the chance for peace is there and always will be there as long as Gwyn is alive. The moment she dies, then the Forrester's have truly doomed themselves.
She has two brothers: Ebbert but he's training to be a maester at the Citadel so he shouldn't be a threat. Then there's Torrhen, he serves Roose Bolton and will likely become head of the House once Ludd and Gryff are dead which I expect is what the Boltons want.
I am bewildered that anyone at all ever trusted Gywn, let alone liked her.
First time we meet her, she's showing up at the funeral for a teenage boy whose father was basically responsible for his murder. That's pretty goddamn disrespectful at worst and just plain tacky at best.
Second time we meet her, she's all "Oh, I want peace between our families, and by peace I mean I want you to let my arrogant blowhard father take whatever he wants, also just lick the boots of my petulant, smarmy, tantrum-throwing brother as he trashes your homestead. Let my family just shit all over yours, that way we don't have to fight anymore! See? Peace!"
And if you say anything like gee Gwyn that kind of sounds like a maybe not a thing I'm really that into, submitting to your asshole brother in my own house, she gets REAL shitty with you real quick.
And regardless of how you play it when you go to meet Ludd and everything goes predictably south, Gwyn is all "Rodrik, I'm so sorry!" like she's completely shocked her raging asshole of a father is acting like an asshole
UGH
Asher I know love is blind but truly it is a wonderful thing that you got to spend four years hanging out with Beskha who is seven million times cooler than Gwyn anyway, even if she's not into you but that's what brothers are for. You dodged a bullet.
Girl I am coming to kill your big dumb bodyguard Harys, and then I'm going to bash your whiny Draco Malfoy brother's face so much that no Telltale bug could ever fix it, and then I'm going to put my blade through your fat father's throat for Ethan. I'll let you live but I am going to drink your bitter sketchy-ass tears out of a golden goblet and they will be delicious
(I may have gotten a little worked up as I was typing that out. I don't like her, is what I'm saying.)
Yeeeeessss the only m'lady that wil actually fight alongside the army
As long as a single Whitehill remains, the Forresters are in danger. Maybe there was a chance for peace but as soon as they killed Asher/Rodrik they have proven that the two houses cannot co-exist. Ramsay alredy stated that and both houses existing would likely cut into the Ironwood profits. Thus it would be disadvantageous for the Boltons. If house Forrester is to survive, the Whitehills must die.
(It's almost like Voldemort and Harry Potter...)
Crap, BROTHELS. That's what brothels are for. Not brothers. Unless you're a Targaryen.
I don't see how her showing up to a funeral to pay her respects is disrespectful/tacky. She's simply trying to show some respect towards the Forrester's for their loss, it's not like she showed up and spat on the dead or came drunk. Plus, I don't think you can you really blame Ludd for Ethan's death, regardless of how good an offer or argument you make for your house, Ramsay's sick desires take hold and he antagonizes the whole situation, the worst Ludd ever did in the 1st episode was make threats, not Ludd's fault for Ramsay's crazy spill.
And I really feel that lots of people take that meeting the wrong way and I get why they see it as nothing but negative but I just don't think you were looking at the bigger picture here. Yes, she was telling us to submit but only temporarily and for good reason. The majority of the Forrester forces died at the Red Wedding, a Forrester lord just died and the newest one is still in no shape to actually fight back, and she knows how much of a lose cannon her brother can be. Gwyn is afraid that any act of rebellion will end in a bloody Whitehill sword so she is looking out for house Forrester whether you realize it or not.
And of course she's shocked at how quickly the whole situation escalated in episode 4. It's obvious that she hasn't seen her father go as far to threaten a child's life, not something that happens everyday at her house. Do you really think in every instance where we talked with Gryff/Ludd that they went back to Highpoint and didn't make it sound more like we were the irrational ones? Ultimately, Gwyn is only hearing one side of the story but thankfully it appears she's skeptical enough to know what she's hearing from her kin isn't the whole truth.
So I get people's immediate feelings against her, but when she's proven to be an ally to us (telling us about the traitor and it being true) I just don't understand why there's still so much hate towards her when she has done nothing but aide us.
Here's the thing - I could argue this point by point with you - Ludd brought Ramsay to Ironrath, and I could quote Rodrik's line about how Ramsay held the knife but the Whitehills sharpened the blade when he was talking about Arthur's death, and apply that same logic to Ethan. And how it was very convenient for Gwyn's secret plan to entirely benefit HER family and that throwing Rodrik a bone about how there was a traitor on his council was really only a superficial concession to make it seem like she was helping - she didn't know who it was, she didn't know what her father's secret plans were - she was getting Rodrik to submit to the whims of her family while giving him nothing of real substance. She gained a whole lot from that deal while losing almost nothing, he lost a lot and gained little.
But I also realize how it could be read as she really did care, was trying to be a true ally in the best way she could, so it's not that I'm not "looking at the bigger picture here" or that she was helping "whether I realize it or not." I think an argument could be made either way, I think Telltale probably wrote her with that in mind, but they are also pretty good at ambiguity, and that's why these forums are so lively with debates. I just didn't like her and I didn't trust her, but I don't actually think she's some sort of Cersei-level malevolent manipulator. Point is, I understand your perspective. I saw and felt it differently, I distrusted her and felt she was working more in the best interests of her family than a true desire to help ours.
Mostly I just sometimes end up getting carried away and making hyperbolic, impassionate rants on forums about things which I have feelings about.
(Side note: it might be the lack of sleep getting to me but the mental image of us being introduced to Gwyn by her showing up drunk at the funeral and spitting on the corpses made me laugh so hard my dogs came to investigate. That would have been horrible but also that would have been so great. I am terrible.)
True true, I think we'll just leave it at that then. I'd debate more but we'd more or less just be doing the internet version of fisticuffs lol And how dare you get swept up by your emotions man! This is a forum! Not some highschool poetry reading! lol
That's like the 2nd or 3rd time I've made someone bust a gut unintentionally but glad regardless! XD
All the sweet cinnamon rolls who like Eleana.
Therefore marriage with Gwyn would not accomplish anything because there's Torrhen, slaughtering all the Whitehills is not possible because there's far-away Torrhen (who is not likely to appear just in the final episode) and so there's no ending the war with Forresters winning once and for all (even more unsettling that no Forrester is safe from death by now). I see what you did here Telltale. Brace yourselves, cliffhangers unto the 2nd season are coming.
Not really contradictory. If they are all dead then there will be nobody to seek revenge on their behalf and the Forresters can live in peace without a greedy up-jumped bully for a rival house.
Great point about them being unable to coexist, especially considering the precious Ironwood resources.
I'm just wondering if literally every Whitehill has to die. I mean if Gwyn was the only one left alive the Whitehill line will still technically be extinguished.
I'm of a similar mind to you though.... every Whitehill must die.
Commiting violence to end violence is "Not really contradictory" to you?
Awesome point about the two houses cannot co-exist.
Peace is all fine and good, but when the power behind the Whitehills doesn't want peace, then it simply isn't an option. That's why I have Rodrik say "We are going for war." in episode 5. By that point, my Rodrik knew that peace can never happen as long as the Whitehills want all of them dead. His only option is to fight back.
That does not prove they can not co-exist at all. While Gryff and Ludd are the power behind their house currently, their actions do not prove that the houses could not come to some agreement. Gwyn has already disproved that since she came to the Forresters and gave them knowledge about the traitor in their ranks. Plus, no one has any idea what ideals the other brother (not the maester) holds, he may very well be just as peace-seeking as Gwyn, we simply don't know.
And did you ever think that this is doing nothing but playing into Ramsay's/the Bolton's hands then given what you said? If and when there is only one house remaining due to Ramsay saying, "Go for it", in the end it will only end in their favor; they secure the profits and products from the surviving house, and there is no more fighting among these houses. In the end, this is just Ramsay playing everyone for a fool since he expects blood to spill, and while I do expect there to be more spilled regardless, if peace were made then we could avoid unnecessary blood spilled.
The Whitehill bloodline does not need to be purged entirely, it's simply suffering from a severe tumor, if you remove the tumor(s), then the problems will go away. Again, I can't say how the other brother may react to this at all, but I'd rather not piss off a potential enemy when the Forresters will be at another weakened state again.
Simply because a friendly state has not existed before does not mean one can't happen now, but just wanting to kill any and all who may pose a threat makes the attacker a greater monster than the one they were trying to defeat.
I would destroy the Whitehills with the most gratuitous forms of violence if it meant no more feuds and violence for Ryon and Talia and even their children and their children's children.
Just being pragmatic; would you rather me spare just a few family members and then we have a similar situation a few years down the line? Hell to the fuck no. No more Whitehills = no more Forrester/Whitehill feud.
Kenny you dog I like the way you think!
Nope, I simply cannot agree that the Forresters would be the bigger monsters for retaliating.
The Whitehills have been tormenting the Forresters. Mocking their dead children, threatening their living ones, it is completely fucked up that a house would treat anybody this way just for power and Ironwood. My blood boils just thinking about how sadistic the Whitehills have been.
Not only is the situation incredibly personal, but the lives of either house are literally at stake.
To paraphrase Royland: "only cowards and dead men roll over"
Beshka is a babe indeed.
I'd be really upset if this wasn't somehow an option. Maybe if Asher kills all the Whitehills including Gwyn?
Yes, both houses have suffered and whether you realize it or not, the Whitehills have suffered too. And because of that suffering, that's why he's wanting to take advantage of the situation and make it so his family will be on top. Believe it or not, there was a time that both houses worked in alliance, I recall Gwyn mentioning it and showing Rodrik a shield with both house's emblems on them in Highpoint. That shield reinforces my beliefs that peace can be attained if under the right conditions.
You can stay in disbelief all you like that you wouldn't become the greater fiend if you chose to kill an entire line, especially when you know damn well there are good people, but in the end that's exactly what you'd become. Like I said, I understand and agree that certain people need to be purged from the Whitehills, but a couple terrible people does not meant the entire line should die.
Well Royland's dead in my game so really his phrases don't matter much to me and his whole ideology focused more on doing exactly what you and others are so willing to do. Personally I prefer this quote, "He who seeks revenge should remember to dig two graves."
Eleana all the way, even if Asher is alive instead of Rodrik. I wouldn't trust Gwyn not to stab my surviving brother in the middle of the night after they finish dealing with her family.
Peace could be attained but for how long? Ludd showed up raging at Ethan over some stuff that Gregor did forever ago. This type of feud is generational, the families just have bad history and no matter how many good apples are on either side there will be bad ones to spoil things. And dispatching of the bad apples isn't as easy as you'd lead us to think since they do, after all, have family members.
Even more so it is a blood feud by this point. Two Lord's (one a child) dead at the hands of Whitehills, one directly and one somewhat less directly. I say that because Ludd didn't actually kill Ethan, he just said some cold-blooded shit and abducted their even younger child.
For fucks sake dude, the Whitehills are destroying the Forresters, it's just that they are taking their sweet time about it and running our faces into the dirt before they do. The only somewhat peaceful solution is thralldom, which as I said would simply result in more violence and contention in the future.
Basically I think the Forresters should sooner hunt down every Whitehill heir before making some sort of ticking time bomb of a peace treaty with them. Fuck the Whitehills.
And that's your problem right there, you expect a poor outcome one way or another; Peace happens and it'll all turn to crap again or we just root out the problems now. It can be that easy, Gwyn is already turning to our side more than ever, and I believe those who had Asher die will see an even more eager Whitehill ready to help the Forresters again. And again, since we don't know the 3rd brothers intentions at this point, I won't say he is or isn't a threat since we simply don't know, he may very well die due to something or another. Slaughtering potential allies is people who have had no hand in the Forrester's loses is not acceptable and pathetic. Would you kill some young nieces or nephews of Gwyn simply because they had the Whitehill name and blood? Guess so, eye for an eye mentality right?
The only Whitehills doing this are the ones in power right now, once they're dealt with then why would you seek out the rest? Simply for the fear of them trying to attack again? That's your second problem, you and lots of others are letting fear take you over. You and I have no idea what may come of a time of peace other than a time for both houses to grow again, but attempting to exterminate an entire line will only lead to ruin. It's a disgusting thought and I'd sooner see the Forrester's die then let an entire bloodline genocide be on their hands and mine.
If you were paying attention, Gwyn doesn't have any kind of power. She is soft-hearted and kind but she is also naive if she thinks her father is willing to undergo peace with the Forresters. In fact, the only reason we have a chance of defeating them, is because of their in-fighting- their disputes that led Gwyn to betraying them. So no we cannot come into some agreement with them, if they cannot even come to some agreement with them-selves!
I know that it will end in the favor of the Boltons, that's the whole point! We have to win their favor in order to exist. We have to prove that we can do better than the Whitehills. The don't give a fuck about the Whitehills, they only care about profits. And we can't just "make" peace, Ramsay has said so himself! Like it or not, the Boltons are in charge and for now, we have to obey them.
You're forgetting that Torrhen serves the Boltons. The Boltons declared that either Forresters or Whitehills only may live and if the Forresters win than the Boltons will be pleased. And Torrhen can't do shit since he serves the Boltons. So he can't be a threat IF the people he serves are in league with us. And if he tries something, he'll become a traitor to the Boltons, he'll be hunted down. Yet another reason to kill all Whitehills.
Look, if you show mercy to someone who has ABSOLUTELY no mercy for us, then you're a fool. The only outcome you can propose is putting Gwyn in charge. HOWEVER: If you kill her father and brother you cannot seriously expect her to offer any kind of help.
The only good outcome is the destruction of Whitehills. They are a weak house: family disputes, arrongant members, terrible reputation...
dying heritage ( Karl dead, Gryff soon to be dead, Ebbert a maester with no power and a lard in charge of it all) and they have no idea how to treat the Ironwood.
I rest my case.
Okay then your Forresters can be noble and die out and mine will exterminate the Whitehills instead. That settles it then.
Seriously though, it isn't pathetic to fight back against injustice. It's pathetic to lick the boots of a man who has killed your family and wishes for your destruction. They're called craven in Got.
OBJECTION!!! This case is far from closed...
I'm paying attention quite well, I know Gwyn has no real power like a lord could have. There is no proof to say there is any in-fighting happening among the Whitehills, we have no idea if Ludd knows of her deceit. And I never said an agreement with them in regard to Ludd/Gryff, I've expressed many times that those are two very specific tumors that need to be dealt with before we can ever think of peace, once they're gone then yes, an agreement could be made.
And who says we both can't win? Merge both houses or come to the agreement. By doing that, the Boltons don't win at all and we could maintain the peace, as long as they still get their shipments of Ironwood and no more feuds happen, what's the issue?
I haven't forgotten about that brother at all. I'm more hesitant than afraid about him again, if peace were made than we may have just gained another ally instead of potentially creating a looming threat.
We're showing mercy to the right people unlike slaughtering an entire family simply because we're afraid. And I've got no idea who would be in charge at that point especially if Asher is dead in someone's game since his and Gwyn's marriage could be the first step to mending these houses. Otherwise then we'll find another way. Is it really so crazy to think she wouldn't be able to accept it? After seeing how far her father was willing to go in episode 4 and after hearing what happened to either Asher/Rodrik, I firmly believe we have a true ally in her.
That's a terrible outcome with them dying, they are quite the opposite of weak at this time given all they've gained and all we've lost. There is a chance for the Forrester's to win this feud and not turn it into a bloodbath. We could take them in and train them to be better craftsmen and make the Boltons happier with faster production, gain a solid force by combining the two houses soldiers, and put both families back on track towards a peace that they once knew and had. I never said making peace wouldn't be difficult, but the best things in life are just that.
Yup, we'll see what comes from either path come the 6th episode, can't wait! That's bound to be some good discussion and hey, if I'm wrong I'll admit it then but until then, we'll stay noble.
And I never said it was pathetic to fight against an injustice, I've said how many times that certain people do need to die, but not the whole lot of them. No one's boots are being licked, just trying to make sure we can mend wounds before those wounds fester and we all die.
Yes we will see what happens when the finale is out, all this speculating is getting me hyped lol.
And to be honest, I'm still really torn about what to do with Gwyn. I saved Asher but as you can tell I just don't find the rest of her family redeemable and i doubt she'd be chill after I kill her father and brother. Decisions decisions.
The cycle of violence is complicated...
The Whitehills kills Asher/Rodrik, the Forresters will never forgive that. The Forresters kills Ludd and Gryff and Gwyn and Torrhen will never forgive them. Even if we somehow managed to exile them or render them powerless, they will still hate the Forresters forever. And they will pass their hatred to whoever becomes their descendants and they will start a war against the descendants of the Forresters.
It is like the Targaryen and Blackfyre. The conflict between both houses lasted centuries and only ended once the Blackfyre got wiped out and extincted.
I see my decision to destroy the entire bloodline of the Whitehills as a way to permanently end this feud once and for all, so future generation of Forresters will never have to be troubled by them, even if I might as well continue this cycle.
You said that Gryff and Ludd are tumors that must be dealt with.
Do you truly believe that Gwyn would marry Asher if he killed her father and brother, who she probably cares about more than anybody?
Yes, partially due to my belief we'll only end up able to kill one of them but yes. After fully realizing the horrors her family has committed, I think she will turn towards us. Mind you, I'm not expecting her to be happy about it, or even approachable for a little while, but I think she'll understand that it needed to happen.
Right? This is about as bad when we were all frantically trying to figure out who the traitor was, I live for these discussion!
Well that's good to hear that you're still kinda on the fence. There's been others whom I've tried to have a similar discussion too but it almost always ended in "Fuck the Whitehills" after the 2nd comment. Thanks for the good discussion about it!
Do you forget the motto: Whitehill is still a Whitehill? She will never forget or forgive, she'll stab us in the back. And what would there be to gain by letting Gwyn live? For the Boltons or the Forresters? It's as I said disadvantageous for the Boltons to allow the Whitehills- nearly destroyed house with one house member in charge to exist. They all have to die. They shattered their peace when stey murdered Rodrik/ Asher.
A Whitehill is a Whitehill...
And that's why they need to die.
Cinnamon roll Morgryn for you and your amazing comment.
(I know, I know, this is the most perfect photoshop you have ever seen in your entire life)