To the original poster of this thread, this was my first MI and point n' click game. I got real stuck only the once [gettin' the frickin' cheese wheel its eyes], so... what does that make one like yourself [to be brutally honest]?
I agree with you though on the whole 'Guybrush never says what I want him to say' thing, though. I understand it'd be funny in certain situations if he went against you [and for terms of plot], but all the time? Lame...
Yeah. That's why I played all the way through MI 1-4, Kings Quest 5-7, Laura Bow, Day of the Tentacle, Willy Beamish, Indiana Jones: FOA, Sam and Max hit the road, Grim Fandango, the Longest Journey, Dreamfall, and shelled out 34 bucks for ToMI. God, I hate adventure games so much.
you could complete all of those and yet you had trouble with ToMI?
Tofuhead you have a shit sense of humour.. and you are struggling through probably the easiest episode of the series
Just stop playing now
Seriously now. Tofuhead have ever play an adventure before?? All the puzzles was well done in my opinion except the last with the tar. I loved the D'oro the explorer and the U tube jokes.
Oh and btw the <<God of breaking wind>> was funny but it wasn't telltales joke but i think it was suggested from the brainstorm thread in the private club.
Yeah. That's why I played all the way through MI 1-4, Kings Quest 5-7, Laura Bow, Day of the Tentacle, Willy Beamish, Indiana Jones: FOA, Sam and Max hit the road, Grim Fandango, the Longest Journey, Dreamfall, and shelled out 34 bucks for ToMI. God, I hate adventure games so much.
Emm with Walkthroughs? I finished the first episode of monkey island but the day of tentacle i am still stuck and i refuse to see any walkthrough.
That is an insane list of complaints! You didn't like anything about it did you? It's a shame for you as you seem to be a fan of the series in general. Luckily I really enjoyed it.
Youtube / U Tube was referenced properly but unfortunately I can't remember exactly what was said. It was something like 'No one seems to enjoy my YouTube offerings' but it was better than that. And the tar 'puzzle'... he didn't just put his hand straight in because the curse wouldn't let him. He had to fall in it 'accidentally'.
I found the map puzzles pretty easy to figure out to be honest.
I agree with a few of your points,
DEFINITELY on the Elaine front... I'd forgotten to mention it in other similar threads so I'm glad you did. In previous games she was feisty and even when kidnapped (see Escape) she still got annoyed at Guybrush for being generally quite useless whereas in Tales she's more a subservient doting wife and that's unfortunate because I always liked her before. And the 'Le Chuck, I'm just not that into you' line was a little cringeworthy.
Yes, unless they later explain the mother-in-law thing - she returned to the scene because HT Marley is back or something like that - it'll be a pretty big oversight.
They did overdo the Seepgood thing too, to the point where I was wincing when it was said. Hopefully they'll tone it down in future episodes.
Definitely agree with the lack of memorable characters too... and there weren't enough of them in general. I did like the guy who collected dolls and was disappointed to see he had gone. Even though DeSinge supposedly rigged the winds to bring in a steady flow of patients the town was pretty deserted. I thought there was going to be a small settlement behind the door... the cannibals or something.
But it's only one episode of 5 so there's still a good 10-12 hours of gameplay left to improve upon the slight failings. I'm optimistic.
WARNING TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T FINISHED. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HIDE STUFF SO THERE ARE SPOILERS UNDERNEATH (If someone could tell me how I'd be grateful!)
Just use the quote code, and replace quote in the [] & [/] with spoiler
Emm with Walkthroughs? I finished the first episode of monkey island but the day of tentacle i am still stuck and i refuse to see any walkthrough.
I only used a walkthrough once for that. I HATE using them but sometime it's too frustrating to keep walking around doing the same things again and again. I only look at them when I'm on the verge of giving up altogether.
I'm wondering if you're stuck on the same bit I was... I really want to help now!
WARNING TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T FINISHED. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HIDE STUFF SO THERE ARE SPOILERS UNDERNEATH (If someone could tell me how I'd be grateful!)
Just use the quote code, and replace quote in the [] & [/] with spoiler
For your safety/sanity, I have spoilered the parts that would be considered rants.
I understand it left out was due to tech difficulties, but I really would have liked point and click movement.
I got stuck very early on since there were no real clues as to where certain puzzles were--not to mention seemingly useless items being the solutions to a problem. For me, I had no idea the anchor would trigger a coal fire. I saw the oil and thought "fire!", and I searched the whole fricking island and there was no fire. The clothesline did not catch my attention at all until hours later and the clue as to where the card was did not lead me to the socks at all!
Hints should be directly in the dialogue or associated with certain items, and not placed in random places in unrelated things.
The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL.
I understand that some puzzles take time to solve but when you solve it, you're supposed to go, "OHHH, it's so obvious now!", not, "...what?? Are you kidding???"
ex 1. On Guybrush's boat with the monkey coffin.
Use monkey coffin with special monkey? Logical... "use" monkey coffin to open and find flat root beer? Not so much.
ex 2. Use breath mints on grog.
Uhhh, why is it flat again? Using repetition with puzzles is never good. There's no point since the first puzzle was solved this way to begin with.
ex 3. Use chain to get onto ship so that the captain will throw hot coals on you.
What?? Just having to use that as a puzzle title is terrible to begin with! Who even does that in the first place? Oh, a person is trying to get on board my ship to take command! I guess I'll DROP HOT COALS ON HIM.
ex 4. Find club membership card in random socks.
This is not a good solution to a puzzle, especially when the hint was "I lost it when I first became captain of the Narwhal." It makes absolutely no sense. In 2 years, not once has the captain worn socks. Not once has he reeled in his laundry? Not once has he put on those pink pantalons? Also, putting two solutions into the same place is never a good idea. Each object should have a sole purpose. It's fine if you can use the item in more than one place, but never put two solutions to two separate problems in the same place, especially when it's not in the same object. This could easily mislead people to thinking they're done. They could have easily put the sock in a random place for us to find. They could even have included a hint like, "I lost it way back when I first became captain of the Narwhal. I'd wager it's because I lost my lucky sock. It's always one sock you know? They just disappear!"
ex 5. The tar puzzle.
Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.
ex 6. The map puzzle.
There is no clear demarcation of the order of steps. This made the puzzle harder than it needed to be. Also, it was not obvious that you should use the map with the wishing well. Just putting a picture of a hand gripping a map next to the well could easily mean "START FROM HERE", not PUT THE MAP OVER THE WELL TO START THE PUZZLE FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON.
ex 7: The 2nd map puzzle.
Are you serious? ANOTHER one? Wasnt the first one bad enough? There wasn't even anything funny that happens along the way. This seemed tedious and entirely pointless. Was there even a point?? Isn't this game supposed to be fun??? And use the wind? I mean, considering how the first puzzle worked, it would make sense to follow the SOUND of the wind on the paths. Not pull out your weather vane to see where it's blowing. Why not just put a picture of the weather vane? I know alot of people had trouble with this one.
ex 8: The marquis totem.
Okay, I thought this was pretty funny, until I realized you couldn't stuff the vane into his ###. So I pulled out the weather vane to see if I could see the face. There was one last face, and since it had not been used yet, it should have been that one by process of elimination, right? Unfortunately, Guybrush hardly holds the damned thing out for more than 2 seconds so I ended up pulling it out two more times to figure out which eyes, nose and mouth to use for the final god. It worked. I had NO idea that the actual solution was to use the Marquis' vocal ows, ees and moans of pleasure (???) to figure how it went. I DID like that they made you use a wheel of cheese on the imprint of the jail cell inscriptions, showing that someone broke it deliberately to decorate the windows. Using the theme of the island as a solution to a puzzle was at least some sort of brilliance.
ex 9. The tar puzzle.
Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.
Bad jokes/continuity problems:
Character continuity: Guybrush's extreme porcelain phobia.
At first mention, Guybrush didn't react whatsoever. He only does so when he picks up the doll, while he wouldn't even have touched in past games. Yeah, he vocalizes his discontent, yet he touches it anyways. Could have easily have been a plastic doll.
Character continuity: Elaine's love-hate for Guybrush.
Elaine was always a tomboy: she was a female pirate who was the governor of a tri island area for pirates. She fought off advances of typical pirate men (Fester Shinetop), and she never needed saving, as she has proven to Guybrush time and time again... except in the 3rd when she ended up turned to gold--but that was Guybrush's fault to begin with. The whole point to her character is that she never really needs saving, and that's all she did this time around, aside from being lovey-dovey.
Continuity: Guybrush's mention about the "mother in law visit": ELAINE'S MOTHER DOES NOT PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE IN HER LIFE.
Aside from Herman Toothrot, she has not had any family play an active role in her life, and that was not necessarily canon, at least in many fans eyes.
Hispanic pirate with fruity accent that plays with dolls. Enough said.
D'oro the explorer.
It didn't even rhyme. And seriously? D'oro the explorer? Seriously??
Bad joke: U-tube.
It should have been either really obvious, or not there at all. There seemed to be a vague reference to it, but there werent really any jokes relating the glass U to youtube. At least ones that were evident or funny IMO.
Bad joke: God of breaking wind.
Toilet humor? Really?
General: Marquis de Singe.
The perfume kiosk merchant in EFMI was a pretty funny character. He was french, snooty and wore a powdered wig/white makeup. Basically, the Marquis is a rehash of this character, only much more effeminate, cheesy and demented. Not that I hated his character, but it seemed in poor taste to do something that's already been done. Unfortunately the guy providing the voice for him didn't seem to have a good grasp on a French accent. It was extremely inconsistent, which grated on my nerves.
Overdone jokes:
Forgettable Driftwood... I mean Seepgood. I mean Mancomb! Wait, what?
They way overdid this one. Geepwood, sheepwood, dogwood, manhood! It's just not funny after the 9000th time!
Wait... that's not what I chose! Why is he saying something else!
My god. It was hilarious in the first game. But that was only one set of lines, with one person, and it was because Guybrush was momentarily stupefied by the stunning beauty that is Elaine Marley.
Lack of memorable characters:
This is a big one! I can't even remember any of the minor characters names, aside from the Marquis de Singe, and that was only because Dominic Armato was the only one to mispronounce the name. Their quirks were not at all amusing either. A glassblower that... well, he was just a glassblower. Then there was the legless drunk that was... uh. Well he... had a magical spyglass... for some... reason?
This is a work in progress... Please don't complain in this thread. Disagreeing with some points is fine, but you saw the title and you knew what was coming.
edit: It seems people are mistaking my criticism with my extreme difficulties with the game. I played through the game fine. I didn't cry and sob over how I had to spend 10 seconds to realize that I had to use the vane to figure out the wind direction on the 2nd map puzzle or anything. I'm just making a point.
Man, did you like SOMETHING about this game???
Anyway, I couldn't disagree more... "Indirect hints are better than none"?
C'mon, it's an adventure game and the only challenges about it are USING THE BRAIN... I wouldn't like to have hints for everything!
If you want something that simple and not challenging, watch a movie or a cartoon. This way you're asking to make an interactive movie-cartoon, it wouldn't be a game anymore. To me, less hints = more fun and more challenge.
Hints should be directly in the dialogue or associated with certain items, and not placed in random places in unrelated things. The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL.
Um the Unbreakable Bottle IS the SAME COLOR as the Crystal Nose. Plus as mentioned before, you are told that the unbreakable glass is made out of the crystals. You are also told that the mer-people created the door which, and you are told somewhere/how that they are affiliated with the crystals.
It's 100% logical. All the way through. I found Chapter 1 to be quite easy and very sensible.
Youtube / U Tube was referenced properly but unfortunately I can't remember exactly what was said. It was something like 'No one seems to enjoy my YouTube offerings' but it was better than that. And the tar 'puzzle'... he didn't just put his hand straight in because the curse wouldn't let him. He had to fall in it 'accidentally'.
I think it was "I don't think he'd be interested in my U Tube offerings" when you try using it on somebody
The other reference was when the glass blower said something like "It seems everyone's into the U Tubes these days" when he gives you the U Tube. (It's at times like these when an in-game speech transcript like the one in Grim Fandango would come in handy!)
The only point of Tofuhead's I really agree on is the last step of the tar puzzle at the end. It kind of gives a good feeling of desperation and is a refreshing equivalent to facing a 'boss' character at the end, but the logicality of it was sacrificed.
And, mr. TofuHead, C'MON, every puzzle was pretty easy and logic.
As an hardcore fan speaking to another one as you consider yourself, I think we all know adventure games that have been harder and cruel (as always, I mention MI2). If you don't like puzzle solving, even when puzzles are simple and logic like the ones in TOMI Chapter 1, then you probably aren't made to play adventure games, or maybe you forgot how hard they were once.
I noticed that replaying old adventure games makes the player see them like nothing more than beautiful stories, letting him forget that once he had to work hard with his mind to complete the game. It's normal and a great thing to get a little frustrated the first time we play an all-new adventure game.
This time, TTG has made puzzles that were so logical it was hard to get stuck.
I hope they keep them this way or a bit harder, but surely they mustn't decrease the difficulty level.
Oh, I hope I didn't offend you man, but I had to say something about your complaining-about-everything post.
TofuHead,
You can't be a pro adventure gamer because I could counter all your problems from your first post but i can't be bothered so I will counter just the one about the glass breaker breaking the crystal nose because it was the first one. Now when you talk to the dude with the weird name that sells the unicorns he tells you that the Glass breaker is able to cut through diamond (which in fact is the strongest material in the world: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080722013234AAR0Ekk and can only be cut by another diamond)
so when you come up against the "crystal" nose your suppose to know that if the Glass breaker can break a diamond (which is the strongest) than it must be able to cut through the crystal. As you can see their was a clue that you either missed or didn't understand.
I love Tales and everything in the game is logical. The only problem I see from a design perspective because I am a game designer is the controls (however i know why they did it) and the 2 map puzzles that were exactly the same(it felt like a filler). Apart from that everything was great, oh with the dialogue at the start, anything I chose Guybrush would say something different(at first i though this is dumb) but as i continued to play i found that it was actually doing what I chose.
A lot of these points are such minor niggles. Can you honestly say that in every other adventure game you ever played, there haven't been any annoying or illogical puzzles? In fact, I thought Telltale did a great job with ToMI's puzzle difficulty - there were a few points I got stumped, but a bit of lateral thinking and I worked it out. If anything the difficulty was perhaps pitched a little too low for my liking.
Point about the maps you seem to have missed.
Without making the player use them on the well, you could arguably get the directions from a previous playthrough or a walkthrough, and skip quite a few puzzles. You could even stumble onto the first one entirely by accident. (For that matter, I wonder if it's possible to skip getting the manatee lens by just knowing the directions and using the blank map on the well).
Personally, it's more illogical to have the route randomly start working once you obtain the map, than to have some means of activating it. Using the maps on the well isn't too difficult to work out given the image on the map (I worked it out before I figured out the sounds, in fact). Also, activating the puzzle is a good way of showing the player they're on track - same with the success jingle and Guybrush's "Looks like I'm on the right track" quips.
Edit: Also, if you use the well it shows it granting Guybrush's wish. It's not hard to conclude that by using the map you're wishing to find the endpoint of said map, which explains why the maps start the puzzle.
I do agree that there was a bit too much use of the 'multiple options but only one line of dialogue' trick, but they can improve on that for next time. It only really irritated in a couple of conversations.
edit: It seems people are mistaking my criticism with my extreme difficulties with the game. I played through the game fine. I didn't cry and sob over how I had to spend 10 seconds to realize that I had to use the vane to figure out the wind direction on the 2nd map puzzle or anything. I'm just making a point.
TofuHead,
You can't be a pro adventure gamer because I could counter all your problems from your first post but i can't be bothered so I will counter just the one about the glass breaker breaking the crystal nose because it was the first one. Now when you talk to the dude with the weird name that sells the unicorns he tells you that the Glass breaker is able to cut through diamond (which in fact is the strongest material in the world: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080722013234AAR0Ekk and can only be cut by another diamond)
so when you come up against the "crystal" nose your suppose to know that if the Glass breaker can break a diamond (which is the strongest) than it must be able to cut through the crystal. As you can see their was a clue that you either missed or didn't understand.
I love Tales and everything in the game is logical. The only problem I see from a design perspective because I am a game designer is the controls (however i know why they did it) and the 2 map puzzles that were exactly the same(it felt like a filler). Apart from that everything was great, oh with the dialogue at the start, anything I chose Guybrush would say something different(at first i though this is dumb) but as i continued to play i found that it was actually doing what I chose.
Actually, I thought these puzzles were very logical and verging on too easy. I mean, mints in root beer? Coke and Mentos! It took me all of two seconds to think of. The tar scene at the end was very simple-- I tend to hope the next "boss struggle" is harder/longer. Any gamer who has played through several adventure games develops the skills of clicking everything, looking for connections and combining random things. Following these instincts the average gamer will certainly have little/no difficulty with these puzzles. Although, I would like to see Telltale come up with a comprimise where the hint system can be turned off completely for those who enjoy the puzzle or made more accessable for those who seemed to have struggled with it. I certainly do NOT want to see them make the puzzles easier.
I do, however, find it ironic that Tofuhead can so vehemently attack TT and the other forum members but fails to graciously take constructive criticism. It is only natural that a post like this should attract people who disagree. A strong opinion one way will invariably attract a strong opinion of the opposite nature. That's what makes forums great, unless opinions can no longer be exchanged and learned from due to overreactions of members.
The introduction was straining and it felt displaced, the jungle was moody. Some riddles and scenes like the monkey scene was really great, but slightly too easy. Other riddles like the second jungle walking riddle seemed more for the purpose of enlarging the playing time than that it made sense. ...
Actually that's one drawback i've experienced in episodic games so far - yes episodic games also have their benefits! If you're adding all episodes together then your ending up with a somehow weaker experience, at least if you're comparing it to a complete designed brilliant game like The Secret of Monkey Island. Somehow there are always stronger and weaker parts and certain patterns repeat several times, it often just feels less well designed in a whole so far and i miss some more complexity. I think you can improve this further but that's how i see it with the games which have been done so far.
All in all i would give TOMI something between 7 and 7.5.
I couldn't dissagree more with TofuHead, I got stuck in just one of the puzzles (the hand in tar one to be precise) and found them to be on the easy side. The only puzzle that made me use my "brain" harder was the last idol one, however my satisfaction skyrocketed when I discovered how the sadistic moans of De Singe were the indicators of how to solve it. Maybe you just want a giant arrow pointing the solution for all the puzzles cause I (like many around here) didn't have much trouble figuring the solutions myself.
My only issues, because to be honest, the nose was obvious to me as was the first map start...
With the maps, I didn't even use the sounds the first time round, I just used trial and error (lol)
Second time, didn't occur to me to use the weather vane (DOH!)
I didn't like the map sections, they were long and tedious and having 2 was just... too much. Once is tolerable, twice I groaned.
I also wasn't keen on the cultural references considering in an interview the creators mentioned that part of the humour was the LACK of pop culture references that people would forget about in the next few years. If you don't have kids would you know who Dora was? The utube? I groaned a little at that I admit. I dunno, maybe i'm wrong but it just didn't seem to fit the humour i'm used to from the first two games. I LOVED the references to other lucasarts franchises though. I dunno. I suppose i'm just not used to internet references in Monkey Island hahaha. It'll take some getting used to.
Beyond that, I didn't really have much trouble with the puzzles. They all made adventure game sense to me. I just HATED THOSE MAP MAZES grrr. please telltale, no more map mazes.
Why didn't stupid Guybrush just get some wood from the stupid forest and patch the hole in the row boat and carve some oars with his teeth and just ROW off the island. JESUS! What a crap game with all of it's puzzle crap.
Actually, I thought these puzzles were very logical and verging on too easy. I mean, mints in root beer? Coke and Mentos! It took me all of two seconds to think of. The tar scene at the end was very simple-- I tend to hope the next "boss struggle" is harder/longer. Any gamer who has played through several adventure games develops the skills of clicking everything, looking for connections and combining random things. Following these instincts the average gamer will certainly have little/no difficulty with these puzzles. Although, I would like to see Telltale come up with a comprimise where the hint system can be turned off completely for those who enjoy the puzzle or made more accessable for those who seemed to have struggled with it. I certainly do NOT want to see them make the puzzles easier.
I do, however, find it ironic that Tofuhead can so vehemently attack TT and the other forum members but fails to graciously take constructive criticism. It is only natural that a post like this should attract people who disagree. A strong opinion one way will invariably attract a strong opinion of the opposite nature. That's what makes forums great, unless opinions can no longer be exchanged and learned from due to overreactions of members.
Constructive my ass.
The only thing I'm sorry for is that I'm the only one with the balls to say it. The first episode sucked bigtime in comparison to the second.
And it's not ironic that I'm not partial to being flamed.
The only thing I'm sorry for is that I'm the only one with the balls to say it. The first episode sucked bigtime in comparison to the second.
And it's not ironic that I'm not partial to being flamed.
There's no need to talk like that to someone who gave you a polite answer :S Seriously, is this the first time you've been on a forum? Like the above poster said, you had to have known your reply would garner both positive and negative replies. Some people gave you very polite answers and yes, constructive criticism, even.
I read through your original post. You make a few valid points, but there's a lot in there I disagree with. Yes, there was puzzle repetition, and I agree that finding the membership card was a little random, but the rest of the solutions were pretty logical.
The anchor/coals thing in particular wasn't a bad puzzle. You're definitely not supposed to expect that you'll be showered with coals, but since your objective is to climb aboard the Narwhal, you have to try every possible way. Every time you do so, the captain retaliates somehow, and one method was to throw hot coals on you. Not that weird.
I didn't have any trouble with it but I found it long and bothersome, especially with the weird controls.
Might have been better if I had realised you could run.
But seriously, the reason I haven't replayed episode 1 yet is that I'm dreading having to redo the maps too much :P I really didn't like doing all of that walking and checking the map constantly. It didn't feel like a puzzle, more like a time-consuming thing put there to fill up some space.
Didn't have the same issues as you for the rest, but I think it's a matter of what order you do things. I did the anchor first, so I knew it resulted in coals. Same for the map resulting in you falling down. And actually I find it logical to try using the map since the hand prevents you from talking. Except I figured he'd talk, the hand would cover his mouth, and he'd point instead. Rather, GB didn't seem to realise he could keep his hand busy by talking, then point, or the other way around.
But that made for a puzzle, and I didn't find it too illogical.
I solved the last wheel by looking at the weather vane, too.
No issue with Singe. It's probably more historically accurate that I'd like it to be, but yeah, medicine at the time wasn't great.
The accent annoyed me as well, but any French accent does. They just sound so fake. (For the record, I'm French, so that's not a racist statement :P)
Hey guys let's calm down please, and keep the language and personal attacks in check.
And this is why I love Telltale. Not only do they make sure their games are great, but they also make sure that no huge flame wars erupt on their forums, and they also try to generally keep things friendly. ROCK ON, Telltale!
Okay...first off when you spill the tar on the deck and click on it, Guybrush tries to use it but his hand wont let him. if you clicked on everything you would figure that out, but you seem to have a problem doing that(the card in the sock puzzle) sure Ron Gilbert made MI1s puzzles to make sense but then again any puzzle will make sense if your the one making it. And...in the originals did you find yourself clicking on everything cause for the life of you couldn't figure out what to do? if you say you didn't everyone here will know you are lying. so why not carry that same strategy over to these games? Dont get me wrong I love every MI game and i like the fact that you have to click on everything to figure stuff out, you would miss out on a lot if you didn't. so just click on everything and you will be fine K honey?
For your safety/sanity, I have spoilered the parts that would be considered rants.
I got stuck very early on since there were no real clues as to where certain puzzles were--not to mention seemingly useless items being the solutions to a problem. For me, I had no idea the anchor would trigger a coal fire. I saw the oil and thought "fire!", and I searched the whole fricking island and there was no fire. The clothesline did not catch my attention at all until hours later and the clue as to where the card was did not lead me to the socks at all!
Hints should be directly in the dialogue or associated with certain items, and not placed in random places in unrelated things.
The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL.
I understand that some puzzles take time to solve but when you solve it, you're supposed to go, "OHHH, it's so obvious now!", not, "...what?? Are you kidding???"
ex 1. On Guybrush's boat with the monkey coffin.
Use monkey coffin with special monkey? Logical... "use" monkey coffin to open and find flat root beer? Not so much.
ex 2. Use breath mints on grog.
Uhhh, why is it flat again? Using repetition with puzzles is never good. There's no point since the first puzzle was solved this way to begin with.
ex 3. Use chain to get onto ship so that the captain will throw hot coals on you.
What?? Just having to use that as a puzzle title is terrible to begin with! Who even does that in the first place? Oh, a person is trying to get on board my ship to take command! I guess I'll DROP HOT COALS ON HIM.
ex 4. Find club membership card in random socks.
This is not a good solution to a puzzle, especially when the hint was "I lost it when I first became captain of the Narwhal." It makes absolutely no sense. In 2 years, not once has the captain worn socks. Not once has he reeled in his laundry? Not once has he put on those pink pantalons? Also, putting two solutions into the same place is never a good idea. Each object should have a sole purpose. It's fine if you can use the item in more than one place, but never put two solutions to two separate problems in the same place, especially when it's not in the same object. This could easily mislead people to thinking they're done. They could have easily put the sock in a random place for us to find. They could even have included a hint like, "I lost it way back when I first became captain of the Narwhal. I'd wager it's because I lost my lucky sock. It's always one sock you know? They just disappear!"
ex 5. The tar puzzle.
Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.
ex 6. The map puzzle.
There is no clear demarcation of the order of steps. This made the puzzle harder than it needed to be. Also, it was not obvious that you should use the map with the wishing well. Just putting a picture of a hand gripping a map next to the well could easily mean "START FROM HERE", not PUT THE MAP OVER THE WELL TO START THE PUZZLE FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON.
ex 7: The 2nd map puzzle.
Are you serious? ANOTHER one? Wasnt the first one bad enough? There wasn't even anything funny that happens along the way. This seemed tedious and entirely pointless. Was there even a point?? Isn't this game supposed to be fun??? And use the wind? I mean, considering how the first puzzle worked, it would make sense to follow the SOUND of the wind on the paths. Not pull out your weather vane to see where it's blowing. Why not just put a picture of the weather vane? I know alot of people had trouble with this one.
ex 8: The marquis totem.
Okay, I thought this was pretty funny, until I realized you couldn't stuff the vane into his ###. So I pulled out the weather vane to see if I could see the face. There was one last face, and since it had not been used yet, it should have been that one by process of elimination, right? Unfortunately, Guybrush hardly holds the damned thing out for more than 2 seconds so I ended up pulling it out two more times to figure out which eyes, nose and mouth to use for the final god. It worked. I had NO idea that the actual solution was to use the Marquis' vocal ows, ees and moans of pleasure (???) to figure how it went. I DID like that they made you use a wheel of cheese on the imprint of the jail cell inscriptions, showing that someone broke it deliberately to decorate the windows. Using the theme of the island as a solution to a puzzle was at least some sort of brilliance.
ex 9. The tar puzzle.
Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.
Bad jokes/continuity problems:
Character continuity: Guybrush's extreme porcelain phobia.
At first mention, Guybrush didn't react whatsoever. He only does so when he picks up the doll, while he wouldn't even have touched in past games. Yeah, he vocalizes his discontent, yet he touches it anyways. Could have easily have been a plastic doll.
Character continuity: Elaine's love-hate for Guybrush.
Elaine was always a tomboy: she was a female pirate who was the governor of a tri island area for pirates. She fought off advances of typical pirate men (Fester Shinetop), and she never needed saving, as she has proven to Guybrush time and time again... except in the 3rd when she ended up turned to gold--but that was Guybrush's fault to begin with. The whole point to her character is that she never really needs saving, and that's all she did this time around, aside from being lovey-dovey.
Continuity: Guybrush's mention about the "mother in law visit": ELAINE'S MOTHER DOES NOT PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE IN HER LIFE.
Aside from Herman Toothrot, she has not had any family play an active role in her life, and that was not necessarily canon, at least in many fans eyes.
Hispanic pirate with fruity accent that plays with dolls. Enough said.
D'oro the explorer.
It didn't even rhyme. And seriously? D'oro the explorer? Seriously??
Bad joke: U-tube.
It should have been either really obvious, or not there at all. There seemed to be a vague reference to it, but there werent really any jokes relating the glass U to youtube. At least ones that were evident or funny IMO.
Bad joke: God of breaking wind.
Toilet humor? Really?
General: Marquis de Singe.
The perfume kiosk merchant in EFMI was a pretty funny character. He was french, snooty and wore a powdered wig/white makeup. Basically, the Marquis is a rehash of this character, only much more effeminate, cheesy and demented. Not that I hated his character, but it seemed in poor taste to do something that's already been done. Unfortunately the guy providing the voice for him didn't seem to have a good grasp on a French accent. It was extremely inconsistent, which grated on my nerves.
Overdone jokes:
Forgettable Driftwood... I mean Seepgood. I mean Mancomb! Wait, what?
They way overdid this one. Geepwood, sheepwood, dogwood, manhood! It's just not funny after the 9000th time!
Wait... that's not what I chose! Why is he saying something else!
My god. It was hilarious in the first game. But that was only one set of lines, with one person, and it was because Guybrush was momentarily stupefied by the stunning beauty that is Elaine Marley.
Lack of memorable characters:
This is a big one! I can't even remember any of the minor characters names, aside from the Marquis de Singe, and that was only because Dominic Armato was the only one to mispronounce the name. Their quirks were not at all amusing either. A glassblower that... well, he was just a glassblower. Then there was the legless drunk that was... uh. Well he... had a magical spyglass... for some... reason?
Comments
I agree with you though on the whole 'Guybrush never says what I want him to say' thing, though. I understand it'd be funny in certain situations if he went against you [and for terms of plot], but all the time? Lame...
you could complete all of those and yet you had trouble with ToMI?
thats just... hilarious.
That puzzle for me was annoyingly easy. I wish Guybrush hadn't said the carving were eyes as I hadn't realisedd until he mentioned it.
Seriously now. Tofuhead have ever play an adventure before?? All the puzzles was well done in my opinion except the last with the tar. I loved the D'oro the explorer and the U tube jokes.
Oh and btw the <<God of breaking wind>> was funny but it wasn't telltales joke but i think it was suggested from the brainstorm thread in the private club.
This isn't a freaking
Emm with Walkthroughs? I finished the first episode of monkey island but the day of tentacle i am still stuck and i refuse to see any walkthrough.
my sentiments exactly.
I agree with a few of your points,
I only used a walkthrough once for that. I HATE using them but sometime it's too frustrating to keep walking around doing the same things again and again. I only look at them when I'm on the verge of giving up altogether.
I'm wondering if you're stuck on the same bit I was... I really want to help now!
Man, did you like SOMETHING about this game???
Anyway, I couldn't disagree more... "Indirect hints are better than none"?
C'mon, it's an adventure game and the only challenges about it are USING THE BRAIN... I wouldn't like to have hints for everything!
If you want something that simple and not challenging, watch a movie or a cartoon. This way you're asking to make an interactive movie-cartoon, it wouldn't be a game anymore. To me, less hints = more fun and more challenge.
Um the Unbreakable Bottle IS the SAME COLOR as the Crystal Nose. Plus as mentioned before, you are told that the unbreakable glass is made out of the crystals. You are also told that the mer-people created the door which, and you are told somewhere/how that they are affiliated with the crystals.
It's 100% logical. All the way through. I found Chapter 1 to be quite easy and very sensible.
The other reference was when the glass blower said something like "It seems everyone's into the U Tubes these days" when he gives you the U Tube. (It's at times like these when an in-game speech transcript like the one in Grim Fandango would come in handy!)
The only point of Tofuhead's I really agree on is the last step of the tar puzzle at the end. It kind of gives a good feeling of desperation and is a refreshing equivalent to facing a 'boss' character at the end, but the logicality of it was sacrificed.
As an hardcore fan speaking to another one as you consider yourself, I think we all know adventure games that have been harder and cruel (as always, I mention MI2). If you don't like puzzle solving, even when puzzles are simple and logic like the ones in TOMI Chapter 1, then you probably aren't made to play adventure games, or maybe you forgot how hard they were once.
I noticed that replaying old adventure games makes the player see them like nothing more than beautiful stories, letting him forget that once he had to work hard with his mind to complete the game. It's normal and a great thing to get a little frustrated the first time we play an all-new adventure game.
This time, TTG has made puzzles that were so logical it was hard to get stuck.
I hope they keep them this way or a bit harder, but surely they mustn't decrease the difficulty level.
Oh, I hope I didn't offend you man, but I had to say something about your complaining-about-everything post.
You can't be a pro adventure gamer because I could counter all your problems from your first post but i can't be bothered so I will counter just the one about the glass breaker breaking the crystal nose because it was the first one. Now when you talk to the dude with the weird name that sells the unicorns he tells you that the Glass breaker is able to cut through diamond (which in fact is the strongest material in the world: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080722013234AAR0Ekk and can only be cut by another diamond)
so when you come up against the "crystal" nose your suppose to know that if the Glass breaker can break a diamond (which is the strongest) than it must be able to cut through the crystal. As you can see their was a clue that you either missed or didn't understand.
I love Tales and everything in the game is logical. The only problem I see from a design perspective because I am a game designer is the controls (however i know why they did it) and the 2 map puzzles that were exactly the same(it felt like a filler). Apart from that everything was great, oh with the dialogue at the start, anything I chose Guybrush would say something different(at first i though this is dumb) but as i continued to play i found that it was actually doing what I chose.
Cheers,
Myles Blasonato.
Much more fun than receiving a hint on a silver platter.
Point about the maps you seem to have missed.
Personally, it's more illogical to have the route randomly start working once you obtain the map, than to have some means of activating it. Using the maps on the well isn't too difficult to work out given the image on the map (I worked it out before I figured out the sounds, in fact). Also, activating the puzzle is a good way of showing the player they're on track - same with the success jingle and Guybrush's "Looks like I'm on the right track" quips.
Edit: Also, if you use the well it shows it granting Guybrush's wish. It's not hard to conclude that by using the map you're wishing to find the endpoint of said map, which explains why the maps start the puzzle.
I do agree that there was a bit too much use of the 'multiple options but only one line of dialogue' trick, but they can improve on that for next time. It only really irritated in a couple of conversations.
I didn't have trouble, you clearly didn't read through my post.
ex:
It's called an opinion.
I do, however, find it ironic that Tofuhead can so vehemently attack TT and the other forum members but fails to graciously take constructive criticism. It is only natural that a post like this should attract people who disagree. A strong opinion one way will invariably attract a strong opinion of the opposite nature. That's what makes forums great, unless opinions can no longer be exchanged and learned from due to overreactions of members.
The introduction was straining and it felt displaced, the jungle was moody. Some riddles and scenes like the monkey scene was really great, but slightly too easy. Other riddles like the second jungle walking riddle seemed more for the purpose of enlarging the playing time than that it made sense. ...
Actually that's one drawback i've experienced in episodic games so far - yes episodic games also have their benefits! If you're adding all episodes together then your ending up with a somehow weaker experience, at least if you're comparing it to a complete designed brilliant game like The Secret of Monkey Island. Somehow there are always stronger and weaker parts and certain patterns repeat several times, it often just feels less well designed in a whole so far and i miss some more complexity. I think you can improve this further but that's how i see it with the games which have been done so far.
All in all i would give TOMI something between 7 and 7.5.
With the maps, I didn't even use the sounds the first time round, I just used trial and error (lol)
Second time, didn't occur to me to use the weather vane (DOH!)
I didn't like the map sections, they were long and tedious and having 2 was just... too much. Once is tolerable, twice I groaned.
I also wasn't keen on the cultural references considering in an interview the creators mentioned that part of the humour was the LACK of pop culture references that people would forget about in the next few years. If you don't have kids would you know who Dora was? The utube? I groaned a little at that I admit. I dunno, maybe i'm wrong but it just didn't seem to fit the humour i'm used to from the first two games. I LOVED the references to other lucasarts franchises though. I dunno. I suppose i'm just not used to internet references in Monkey Island hahaha. It'll take some getting used to.
Beyond that, I didn't really have much trouble with the puzzles. They all made adventure game sense to me. I just HATED THOSE MAP MAZES grrr. please telltale, no more map mazes.
Constructive my ass.
The only thing I'm sorry for is that I'm the only one with the balls to say it. The first episode sucked bigtime in comparison to the second.
And it's not ironic that I'm not partial to being flamed.
Thanks!
There's no need to talk like that to someone who gave you a polite answer :S Seriously, is this the first time you've been on a forum? Like the above poster said, you had to have known your reply would garner both positive and negative replies. Some people gave you very polite answers and yes, constructive criticism, even.
I read through your original post. You make a few valid points, but there's a lot in there I disagree with. Yes, there was puzzle repetition, and I agree that finding the membership card was a little random, but the rest of the solutions were pretty logical.
The anchor/coals thing in particular wasn't a bad puzzle. You're definitely not supposed to expect that you'll be showered with coals, but since your objective is to climb aboard the Narwhal, you have to try every possible way. Every time you do so, the captain retaliates somehow, and one method was to throw hot coals on you. Not that weird.
I didn't have any trouble with it but I found it long and bothersome, especially with the weird controls.
Might have been better if I had realised you could run.
But seriously, the reason I haven't replayed episode 1 yet is that I'm dreading having to redo the maps too much :P I really didn't like doing all of that walking and checking the map constantly. It didn't feel like a puzzle, more like a time-consuming thing put there to fill up some space.
Didn't have the same issues as you for the rest, but I think it's a matter of what order you do things. I did the anchor first, so I knew it resulted in coals. Same for the map resulting in you falling down. And actually I find it logical to try using the map since the hand prevents you from talking. Except I figured he'd talk, the hand would cover his mouth, and he'd point instead. Rather, GB didn't seem to realise he could keep his hand busy by talking, then point, or the other way around.
But that made for a puzzle, and I didn't find it too illogical.
I solved the last wheel by looking at the weather vane, too.
No issue with Singe. It's probably more historically accurate that I'd like it to be, but yeah, medicine at the time wasn't great.
The accent annoyed me as well, but any French accent does. They just sound so fake. (For the record, I'm French, so that's not a racist statement :P)
And I think that pretty much covers it...
I want my money back!
....
RIGHT!!! NOW!!!
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lol, this thread sucks....
Really? Me too!
TofuHead
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 69
Just sayin.
And this is why I love Telltale. Not only do they make sure their games are great, but they also make sure that no huge flame wars erupt on their forums, and they also try to generally keep things friendly. ROCK ON, Telltale!