For Everyone Who's Sick of the Negativity
As someone who's been a forum user for almost two years, this community has given me many great memories and I'm so glad that I found this place. That's why it's very saddening to see what the forum seems to be turning into. I'm talking about the general negativety and the subsequent closing of threads, specifically @SupernovaeHollay's thread about feminism (which seems to have disappeared) and a previous feminism thread, as well as @Kenny/Lee's Unpopular Opinions thread (the latter two I will provide links to).
I find the constant closing of threads to be a bit over the top. I've heard that there have been quite a few new moderators (some of whom I have noticed), so it could be due to inexperience. But unless there are flagged comments that are getting hidden, then it seems that some threads are getting closed at the first hint of an argument breaking out with no prior warning or explanation given.
I would very much appreciate it if a moderator came forward to offer us some explanation, to account for the lack of an explanation (as far as I know) for threads being closed. Granted, some of the negativity I've seen in these threads gives me a second reason for starting this thread. I'm specifically talking about what happened before the Unpopular Opinions thread was closed, where @Kenny/Lee brought up his disapproval of the Supreme Court's gay marriage ruling and views on political correctness. I think he delivered his views very respectfully, but some users (not naming anyone) still took issue with what he said. I like to think that we can disagree and discuss topics maturely without getting defensive or upset. I know that most members here are perfectly capable of that, and I created this thread for the purpose of having a polite, reasonable discussion on the atmosphere of this forum and ways to improve it. Because I want this community to be a place where we can discuss things respectfully and enjoy our time, as I'm sure many users on this forum also want. I invite the users I've mentioned to come forward and join the discussion, as well as anyone else who feels like they have something to add.
Finally, I just want to request that we please keep things civil. I don't want this to become another thread that gets derailed and locked. Thanks.
Links to closed threads:
https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/100178/unpopular-opinion-thread
https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/86479/feminism
EDIT: Apologies to Kenny/Lee for botching his name in typing this. If anyone has a fix so that I can mention him properly, that would be great.
Comments
I agree with you. I liked Hollay's thread and I was very disappointed when I found out it had been closed because she brought up topics that I found interesting. As for the Unpopular Opinions thread, I can see how things might get out of hand but I believe most people are perfectly capable of expressing their opinions in respectful ways. Of course, when faced with controversial topics like that, it's pretty easy to lose your shit. However it doesn't mean an entire thread must be closed down because a few people were offended. That's life... when you have an unpopular view on something as controversial as gay marriage, you simply cannot expect people not to react defensively. Sorry, people aren't always going to behave the way you want them to.
Firstly, thank you for replying.
Like you said, a few people getting upset doesn't warrant an entire thread getting closed. That's why moderators should go after those individuals so that mature discussions can continue.
I'm about to go to bed but I will elaborate more on my views tomorrow... But I actually have to admit that though my intentions in that thread were the issues of male and female equality, a lot of people brought up the idea of true equality between all races, genders, etc. that I do appreciate greatly.
I agree, I don't understand why it was taken down. My general opinion is that the mods are very worried about issues arising and the comments that could signal possible conflicts and issues.
I think constantly of how much I love these forums and its users. I went through a depressive episode in my life last year around this time and have gone through some other hard times. Yet I was always able to come here and to the users and find comfort, and happiness amongst the people here. As someone whom has been active in online communities since I can remember the internet being a thing, I can't say enough about this one being great despite the few bad apples.
Edit:
Okay so just to clarify I really wasn't referring to anyone specifically when I said bad apples. Because the only people whom ever genuinely hurt me or were incredibly rude and hateful have been banned from the community.
Its kind of pointless trying to discuss anything on here really, any thread of any substance is just closed.
Moderating must not be an easy job, so I can understand the fear of things getting out of hand too quickly, but I think that there are better ways to handle conflict in these situations. I find it quite concerning how our voices are so easily silenced. I can't imagine how this forum will be in the future; if I'm not free to speak my mind, I don't see myself staying here.
Should we just stick to talking about video games?
I'd prefer if we didn't have to do that. I know that people on here are capable of talking about serious issues, and I'd like for that to continue. Granted, I would prefer to talk about games more, but there's just not a whole lot going on in gaming that I'm interested. Maybe when 2016 rolls around we'll have more interesting stuff to talk. It would be nice to talk about something happier.
Let me fetch you a few loudspeakers.
If people stop being so tactless (you know who you are)...
None of this would've happened if no one started the fire.
Thank you for your support.
It is appreciated!
In my personal life experience, there are some people out there with whom it is impossible to have a logical and reasonable discussion, which I think is a big reason so many of these threads have been closed, after people have posted "controversial" comments, even it's done so respectfully and tactfully.
They're some individuals out there who are going to see things exactly as they want, and no-one is gonna be able to say different to them, even if say something in the most respectful way possible.
Sometimes to the point where it's -their way or the highway!
And unfortunately, with mankind becoming more and more self-centered as a whole, particularly here in America, we are seeing more and more of that unreasonable attitude occurring.
And there is not a single person on this planet that is not guilty of displaying that self-centered "me-first" attitude, in some way.
I'm guilty of it.
You're guilty of it.
We are ALL guilty of it!
No offense intended.
People need to stop taking things so personally. We're on the internet, what people say on a forum about video games won't hurt anyone.
Threads get closed because people break the forum guidelines. It's that simple. I'm almost certain I know why the first Unpopular Opinion Thread was closed because I saw a post someone made about their unpopular opinion that fucking repulsed me, and it's very difficult to offend me. Probably only a few minutes later the post was gone and the thread was closed. You might as well just make a thread called 'Say some fucked up things here' because that's what both of them devolved into. Just because it's an 'opinion' doesn't mean it's immune against the forum guidelines. You say something hate based or bigoted and the mods are going to shut you down whether or not you put 'well I think' infront of it.
I think self-centered attitudes are just a part of who we are. It's a shame, but sometimes we gotta live with our flaws.
I know what you mean.
"They are talking real life issues in our forum?!? CLOSE IT DOWN, NOW!!!"
On more serious note, moderators usually don't lay out the rules. Especially in a forum that is foremost meant to help sell more of their products.
If you want to see genuinely bad moderating over the years, go to Facepunch forum where you might be banned simply having a new account before you post your first post and that ban might even be issued by a real human moderator for no good reason.
I guess it comes down to this, are these forums really place to talk about them if the rules already say no?
The purpose of this thread wasn't to debate what will happen, but rather what should happen. if we can't tolerate the speech we don't like, then how can we say we tolerate free speech at all. And why should one repulsive comment result in an entire thread getting locked? Just flag that comment, and let the tactful people have their discussions.
I honestly saw nothing bigoted or hateful in the last Unpopular Opinions thread. Everyone that I saw there was tactful about how they went about expressing their opinions. Where's this hate and bigotry that you speak of?
Amen to that, brother.
Regardless of how others may have viewed Kenny/Lee's comment, not only did his comment not warrant this thread's closure, but it was also a way of trying to stop him from expressing his opinions, i. e. shut him up. Again.
PuhChewyChomp is correct. Those threads (and any other thread that has been closed) were closed because people were continuously breaking forum guidelines.
The worst comments were flagged (which removes them from public viewing), because they were really awful, and absolutely broke the rules. There's a lot of posts in those thread that were removed, containing lots of insults. A warning was issued after the insults were made, and more insults came. The worst insults were flagged, and the thread was closed. Respect is the first rule of the forum guidelines, and people weren't following it. We kept the threads open for a while, and kept flagging the insulting posts, but after a while the need to flag insults became so frequent, the threads needed to be closed.
It's a shame that we can't discuss current events and grown-up issues without resorting to poop-flinging. I feel like this reflects an overall trending the modern world rather than a problem specific to this forum.
I'm willing to own up to the fact that I'm as guilty as anyone else. As much as I try to keep a lid on my myself, I have penchant for fiery rhetoric. I realize that I have offended a number of people over the past few months and I (generally) regret it.
That said, it's starting to feel like people interpret a vigorous challenge to their beliefs as a personal attack. Opinions aren't sacred, they're meant to be shared, challenged and changed to account for new information. That's how we learn and become informed citizens. I'm not attacking your opinion because I think you're a piece of shit, I just disagree.
.
This. This. And This.
With the Unpopular Opinions thread, we closed that thread as there was already another variant of that thread that was previously closed due to some people posting extremely offensive or bigoted opinions, causing the thread to be derailed very frequently. We don't want people to feel they have to shy away from talking about anything other than video games, but we also want people to try to have constructive and civil discussions. Being passionate is OK, but as I alluded to earlier, some people crossed the line from being passionate into posting crass/offensive comments, derailing the thread, and/or causing arguments. We don't like to punish everyone for the actions of a few, but when we lock a thread that isn't initially against the forum guidelines in the first place, it's usually because it's beyond the point where we can salvage discussion and safely expect the thread to not be derailed in the future again.
As for other threads in general, we did recently add several new new mods as of a while back. In the last few months since like April, we've added four new mods since it was previously just Ozzy, Jennifer, and I in terms of active mods. Mostly, it just boils down to a combination of new mods learning the ropes (trying to figure out and get a feel for when it is OK to flag posts, lock threads, or leave warnings) and just general increased activity.
With some discussions, we do preemptively keep an eye on things due to tendencies of certain discussions to cause drama without the potential of any civil discussion, but we usually try to let people get discussion in on their own before resorting to closing or flagging a thread.
We're always open to feedback, as long as you guys keep it civil and constructive.
I agree with most of what you said. Threads should be closed only when things get really out of hand, not because of one or two comments, especially when they could just delete them (even though I don't think they should, only if people are insulting each other/inciting violence or something like that). It bothers me because I enjoy debating serious topics. And yep, sometimes my discussions get a bit heated so I probably am a little guilty as well. I would like to point something out though.
Do you mean that in a bad way? I mean, as far as I know, no one disrespected him, and opinions and ideas are meant to be shared and debated. If no one offended him, I don't see how that's a problem. There's a huge difference between attacking someone's opinions and trying to discuss something. And although I don't think comments should be deleted because they're polemic or unpopular, if someone says something ignorant or baseless, such as comparing homosexuality to bestiality (I'm not trying to bait anyone, just giving an example) you bet I'll call them out.
Saying ''it's just my opinion'' doesn't give anyone a free pass to say whatever they like without expecting consequences. If someone says ''black people are dumber than white people, but that's just my opinion''... I'm sorry, but that opinion is wrong, that person has no evidence to support their claim. We can't say something ignorant with no basis and expect people to stay silent about it.
And in that thread I saw only one person pointing out something specific about Kenny/Lee comment, how he used the term ''unnatural'' when homosexuality can't be considered unnatural. Overall, I think everyone was staying civil.
Open another one. . .
Actually, that's probably not the best idea as we tend to lock repeat threads if the first one was closed. I think trying to work towards a better compromise would be the better idea, but admittedly I'm trying to figure out if that would work at this point or not.
How many threads have we had about sexual orientation, politics, etc. that have, for the most part, all been closed eventually? And yet there is rarely not a repeated idea in the thread list. Eventually the mods get tired of the thread and keeping it clean, sure, but when it gets shut down there is always another. So, open another with a slightly altered title and slightly altered message and you kods are never the wiser
EDIT: Mods*. Kods sounds derogatory.
To be fair, it's more about repeating the exact same idea for another thread. We typically resort to locking threads as one of our last resort measures (unless similar discussions have gone poorly in the past). If we have good reason to expect things to turn out differently this time, we will be more open to keeping threads open. However, it typically turns out that when a similar thread is created, people go through the same motions that caused the last thread to eventually be locked over time.
Again, we don't want people to feel they have to shy away from heavier discussion. To put it bluntly, it's just a vocal portion of people pooping in the punch bowl by either making bigoted/discriminatory posts or other posts derailing the threads with arguments to a point where asking people to behave isn't enough. Disagreement is fine, but the problem is that it often gets taken too far and people take too many liberties and cross the line in posting their opinions for the sake of going against the grain.
An alternative would be to allow the threads to stay up, but we would have to intervene and enforce much stricter rules, putting the thread under a large amount of scrutiny where people would be banned much easier for making bigoted/hateful posts or derailing the threads with personal attacks instead of arguments that remain constructive even if they get heated. If that's a risk you guys want, we can take that into consideration as feedback.
I understand, but I think it would be good for moderators to issue a message in the thread when it's closed, just so the user know what has happened (I'm sure quite a few people didn't see those insults).
Do it. You won't.
That's Political Correctness.
It trains people not to look at context instead of content.
As I said in the the Unpopular Opinion thread, PC encourages censorship and intolerance.
Instead of free-speech, freedom of belief, and tolerance, things that this country was built on!
It says that faith and conviction are offensive.
It says: "For the sake of inclusion, what you believe better be kept to yourself. Be tolerant, or we won't tolerate you!"
And the idea of faith and conviction are things that this country were founded on.
Demand that they influence you with their ideas, and you have democracy.
If it is going to be offensive to you because you cannot defeat me with your logic, than you don't deserve to win.
That's how it use to be in this country.
You know how you stop Political Correctness?
You stop doing it!
It gives them no weapon.
Is it a fight?
Yes it is!
But you don't have to march with protesting signs!
You can simply doing things like talking with your neighbor, for example, and when they say that thing, you just have to gently say: "I disagree, and here's why."
And when you explain why you disagree, be sure not to do so with the intent of being offensive.
Express the truth of your beliefs, but in a dignified and respectful way.
And if the truth offends them, that's their problem, not yours.
Well, someone once said: "I never learnt anything from someone who always agreed with me".
And amen to this, too.
At the same time, it's important to note that a lot of hateful people accuse others of political correctness in order to shield their bigotry from criticism.
I mean a few of my comments have "mysteriously disappeared" but I don't really mind. I mean, let's be honest, we all know eventually what those threads were going to turn into, we all know things were slowly escalating like snowflakes on a branch slowly breaking it till it snaps.
I trust the mods to make good choices to keep order here, it hasn't gotten too bad to consider their actions "censorship".
I have been doing that since I first got here . Doing so has gotten me banned 3 times my friend .
Four if you count the time the modder unbanned my 7 day leave and extended it for 30 days .
I think everyone should realize that these are not the Free Speech For All Conceivable Viewpoints Forums. These are the gaming forums of Telltale, Incorporated, a for-profit company that aspires to create a little fun in your lives. As far back as I've been a member, Telltale moderators and employees have emphasized that we should do our best to make these forums awesome and not lame. Any thread that turns into a constant argument spewing hatred doesn't achieve that and doesn't belong.
If you want to yell at other users about how wrong they are, there are a lot of other places on the Internet for that. You're not going to change their minds, anyway. Let's try to keep these forums a place that's fun to read and contribute to.
Just commenting in general, not on a specific thread.
No offense but aren't you a bit notorious for name calling? I could be misremembering.
That wasn't me.
[removed]
Well that's not very nice.