Psychonauts 2 Is Now Crowdfunding

matteso586

I recently learned about a kickstarter that has been started by Double Fine. And its for a sequel to Psychonauts. ... Don't believe me, then here's the link.

https://www.fig.co/campaigns/psychonauts-2

If you don't know what that is, I recommend you to look it up, watch walkthroughs, or play the game yourself.

freelancepolicefan11

Ugh. Double fine and Kickstarter (or whatever the hell their new plan is to make people fund their game). They got over 3.3 million dollars on Double Fine Adventures (Broken Age) and they still couldn't finish it, so they had to split it in two parts. It was a decent game, but not 3.3 million dollars "good". I want Psychonauts 2, but I don't know if I can trust Tim again. I don't know.

Jennifer

The problems that Tim Schafer and Double Fine had with Broken Age have already been addressed. They won't be having the same problem now.

1. Broken Age had to have an engine coded for it, as they didn't have a 2D engine for their games before it. They already have a functional 3D engine for their games, Buddha, so they don't have to worry about coding that, which took a significant chunk of development time and money.
2. They had to design characters from scratch. They don't have to do that this time as they already have the main characters and their personalities from the first Psychonauts, and the character models have already been updated.
3. They didn't have a story going into Broken Age. They had a plan for the story for the $200,000 flash game sized adventure they were planning to make (since half of the budget was planned to go to 2 Player Productions for their documentary), but when they unexpectedly received 8 times what they were asking for, a flash game sized adventure wouldn't work (it would be a little silly to keep a game that small and keep the same scope they planned, but spend the rest on graphics, music, and sound effects, so the scope had to be made larger). There is a story for Psychonauts 2 going into it.
4. They already have the scope planned out for Psychonauts 2, which will be about the same size as Psychonauts. They plan for it to take 2 and a half to three years (releasing in 2018), about half the time of the development for the first one, for the same reasons as point one and two. They had to make a brand new engine for Psychonauts, as it was their first game, and they had to design all of the characters and their personalities from scratch. The fact that they don't have to do either this time around will cut development time drastically.
5. They learned a lot from the first kickstarter campaign and already improved upon it with Massive Chalice. The plan for that game was made right from the start, the scope stayed consistent, and they were a lot better with communication with both backers and non-backers as regards to the development of the game. The lessons learned with Massive Chalice will be used in the handling of Psychonauts 2.

freelancepolicefan11

I'm guessing all of these points you've mentioned are in the documentary they released for kickstarter backers for Adventures?

I guess we'll see if they can make it work.

Jennifer

Some of it is (the fact that they had to make a 2D engine from scratch for Broken Age and the fact that they had to change the story and scope of Broken Age based on the bigger budget). The documentary isn't just for kickstarter backers anymore though. You can watch all of the episodes now on YouTube.
Double Fine Adventure.
I recommend doing so, as it really does explain where all of the money for Broken Age went, why the game ended up the way it did, how the game was handled, and the challenges they had doing so. It makes you appreciate the development of the game a lot more than you do just assuming the budget based on the high figure (which isn't really 3.3 million, as the documentary is much bigger than planned too, as it was 20 episodes long, so it cost a lot more than the planned $200,000 too (note that the Broken Age Kickstarter always stated that half of the money would go to 2 Player Productions), plus the kickstarter rewards took a big chuck of the total cost too).

Some of it has been stated by Tim himself, on the actual Psychonauts 2 fig campaign page:

They've shown the updated models of the main characters, Raz, Lili, Sasha, and Milla. You can see them on the scrolling images bar below the video on the Fig page.

On the reason why they feel they can ship the game by 2018:

"The studio's flagship game, Psychonauts , took nearly five years to make. But in the last fifteen years, we’ve grown a bit older and wiser and have shipped sixteen titles since with four more in the pipeline. Psychonauts 2, as a sequel, has already built a solid foundation and answered a lot of the questions we’d otherwise face - What is this game? Who are the characters? What is the gameplay going to be like? etc."

The story already is fleshed out:

"In Psychonauts 2, Raz realizes his dream and visits Psychonauts Headquarters. However, when he gets there, he finds it's not the perfect place he expected and quickly realizes that the Psychonauts need him more than he needs them.

Psychonauts 2 will feature a new hub world inside Psychonauts HQ. You’ll access new mental worlds as Raz peeks inside the minds of a host of new characters who need his help to combat their inner demons and unravel their deep-seated emotional issues. Raz will hone his secret agent PSI-abilities—and learn new ones too—using them to solve mysteries and uncover evil plots."

freelancepolicefan11

I'll try to check it out when I've got nothing better to do. Thanks for bringing up these points. I'm feeling more confident we'll get a good game. (that's on time and not delayed or whatever).

matteso586

I thought the story involves rescuing Lili's father.

Jennifer

That's actually the story for the side game, Psychonauts: In the Rhombus of Ruin for the Playstation VR on PlayStation 4, which will be released next year.

In the latest update Tim revealed that Rhombus or Ruin has its own budget set aside that won't interfere with Psychonauts 2 development. And they've been upfront that other, smaller, projects will be developed alongside Psychonauts 2, and the projects that are already in development (Rhombus of Ruin, Day of the Tentacle: Remastered, Headlander, and Full Throttle: Remastered) will still be developed concurrently with Psychonauts 2.

matteso586

Now that you mentioned it, I think Tim should have remastered Psychonauts for its 10th anniversary. And make sure it too has a separate budget.

Also, the villain of In the Rhombus of Ruin could be linked to the villain of Psychonauts 2. ... Just a theory.

Gary-Oak

No thanks, fuck Tim Schafer. I liked psychonauts and I would like a sequel, but he is NOT getting my money.

JamesDalton1995

No thanks. I'm done with Tim Schafer

Jennifer

Why the hate for Tim Schafer? The Double Fine Adventure documentary explained the handling of the funds for Broken Age (which was not 3.3 million, as remember that in the pitch video they said half would go to 2 Player Productions), and the Massive Chalice kickstarter addressed all of the issues that the first Kickstarter had, as it was handled much better than the first, as the plan for that game was made right from the start, the scope stayed consistent, and they were a lot better with communication with both backers and non-backers as regards to the development of the game.

The only thing that the studio did that could be remotely considered messed up is Spacebase DF-9, which I'll admit was a big mistake. But everyone's entitled to those. Telltale screwed up pretty bad with Jurassic Park, as they took preorders and then postponed it a year, and then even after the postponement, the release wasn't well received (to put it mildly). Not to mention the whole scandal related to Telltale employees rating the game as 10 on Metacritic without revealing they were employees (and the whole Jeepgate thing, where the owner of the Jurassic Park jeep claimed that Telltale brought the jeep back damaged, and the internet lit up in anger over it). But everyone's moved past that, so why can't people move past it with Double Fine?

matteso586

Thread: Psychonauts Kickstarter at 82%!

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The current kickstarter for Psychonauts 2 is currently at 82%. Well... Last time I checked anyway. Don't believe me, then see for yourself.

https://www.fig.co/campaigns/psychonauts-2

Jennifer

It's now 100% funded.

stirpicus

God I'm so excited for this - Psychonauts is one of the reasons I'm a game dev at all.

SpaceTales

While this is obviously a subjetive video I do believe it´s important to notice some of the problems with Double Fine and this Kickstarter in particular:

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Personally, I really like him as a game designer. I have played and loved all his classic games from Lucas Arts, and while I miss two or three of his double fine games (Iron Birgade and the Sesame Street game are the ones that come to my head now) I also played and loved the rest of his work. His time on Lucas Arts was crucial, Day of the Tentacle will always be one of my all time favorite games in history, it doesn´t matter that I know it from start to end, I can always enjoy it. Even games that had not that much success like Brütal Legend and Stacking are great experiences for me, Brütal Legend I wish it was made when I was a metal head teenager, cause I would have consider it the best game ever made (despite lacking in the Iron Maiden department),and Stacking is just such a lovely looking game and unique. And you could say that about ALL his work, he always tries something new and unique and makes it look wonderful, his games are art pieces, and each one is completely different from the other without losing his personal touch. Artistically I don´t think one can reach a higher state than being so versatile and gifted.

All that being said, he makes terrible financial choices, and after years and years of listening cry about publishers being the devil and the reason why his games are unfinished most of the time you realize they were actually help the game come out, because if not Schafer would have delay the game more and more, unable to find the finishing touch and spending more and more money and most likely it wouldn´t pay off. I imagine Double FIne studios as my studies on arts, tons of artist around talking about great ideas about what they are gonna make and "change the game", but they all live with dad and mom and are unable to make that art being worth as much as they measure it, and most of their work is unfinished because the headline is here and you spend that time speaking of ideas and how great will they be rather than accomplishing them.

I want to believe in Schafer, but at this point I realize that he´s an artist, with all the good and bad things that imply, he should not be around anything that is not the art depart of a videogame company, he can coordinate a team of other artist or pull every single thing out his own head marvelous and create new and interesting worlds, but he´s not able to pull anything beside that: he cannot deal with the public as proven to how fast his popularity has gone down after some comments and public appearances withing the industry media (do seem to recall some controversy around him during some videogame awards if I´m not mistaken), he cannot deal with publishers as most of them eventually had it with him and end in a bad relationship and he cannot make financial choices as he doesn´t seem to understand how to prioritize in order for the product to be finished.

I´ll buy any game that has him as an art director, writer, concept artist and all that good jazz, but I´ll still be cautious about any game that he has any other form of involvement, even if it´s a sequel to Psychonauts, a game a loved despite not being able to finish it because of poor design choices like that stupid broken meat circus that was 400% times harder than anything previous in the game.

Jennifer

That video is completely biased and makes points that aren't true. None of Double Fine's games are unfinished outside of Spacebase DF-9 (which isn't technically unfinished, just a lot smaller than hoped - which happens all the time in game development, the problem was that it's development was open, and the communication in regards to the development problems was handled very poorly), which was a mistake as I pointed out above. Everything else is just full of half-truths and flat out lies. The guy who posted that video has an axe to grind with Tim Schafer, and it shows.

I talked a lot about why the complaints of development of Broken Age are unfounded (and I'll add that the extra development time caused Broken Age to have extra features added which ended up making a larger game at no extra expense to the backers, so I really don't know what the problem is here). I'll also add that the the lie that Double Fine extended the date of the Psychonauts 2 campaign because they thought it wouldn’t make it’s funding on the original date doesn't even make sense. That bug caused the date to be shown as five days sooner than expected (January 7th instead of the intended January 12th). Psychonauts 2 was funded on January 6th. Even with the original date set by the bug, it still would have met it’s goal on time.

Also, as for the lie that Tim Schafer doesn't know how to properly budget a game (started by Bobby Kotick of Activision when he tried to sue Double Fine because Double Fine went to EA to publish Brutal Legend when Activision dropped it), that doesn't make sense either. Double Fine has successfully shipped 20 games. Out of those, Broken Age had extra features added, and Spacebase DF-9 had features cut (and the problem with both was that the development was transparent - if it was developed in secret, like most games, no one would have a problem with the development of either). But, on the other hand - Psychonauts, Brutal Legend, Costume Quest, Stacking, Iron Brigade, Sesame Street: Once Upon a Monster, Double Fine Happy Action Theater, Middle Manager of Justice, Kinect Party, The Cave, Dropchord, Autonomous, My Alien Buddy, Hack 'n' Slash, Costume Quest 2, Grim Fandango Remastered, and Massive Chalice were all successfully released, feature complete. A studio that can successfully release that many games certainly isn't one that has problems managing a budget.

KestrelPi made a good post at the Double Fine forums explaining the rest of the lies and half truths made in that video, so I'll just quote his post here:

Some people still seem to be a little bit doubtful, in many cases on the basis of accusations of shady behaviour by people who, frankly, don't have any idea what they are talking about. So I thought I'd address a couple of these here just so that there's one place for it.

Claim: Double Fine changed the end date of the campaign, which is somehow shady

According to Double Fine and Fig, the end date displayed incorrectly due to a bug. It was, apparently, always supposed to be Jan 12th to account for the campaign running through December and give it more time in the new year. This makes sense.

But let’s say they’re lying liars and did this because of being worried it wouldn’t hit the goal. This would have been strange, because at the time the date changed, it was getting funded at a rate twice as fast as the original Double Fine Adventure. But even so, so what?

They can decide to change the date if they want. If they wanted to continue running it for the rest of the month, that would also be fine. Weird, but ... whatever?

Finally there's the related claim: if the date hadn't changed, the campaign would have failed now. This is also ungrounded. If the end of campaign had been today, the final-week ramp up of pledges that we've been seeing would have started earlier, and it probably would have been fine at this point. Unless you are claiming that the end of a campaign has no impact on the level of funding there's absolutely no way of telling what state the funds would be right now if the date hadn't changed.

Claim: Behind the scenes Double Fine are asking you to invest in Fig, not Psychonauts, which is somehow shady

Actually, technically the investment money goes straight through to Fig Grasslands. From the Double Fine Adventure documentary, Grasslands has long been Double Fine's codename for Psychonauts 2. Fig Grasslands is the entity that has been set up in order to collect investment to produce Grasslands, or Psychonauts 2.

As someone who works in this area, this is how a lot of movie funding works. A company gets set up specifically concerned with the funding of a particular project, often named after the project in question or if they feel a little more playful, some related term. There's nothing unusual about this model, and people aren't buying shares in fig in any meaningful way.

Claim: Double Fine have bad form on previous crowdfunded projects, and are somehow shady in this area

Double Fine have 2 previous projects funded by Kickstarter: Broken Age and Massive Chalice. Both games reviewed quite well and are now released, with some of the special physical awards still being finished.

Broken Age was split into 2 parts, with the second part being funded by Double Fine (a small amount being through sales of Act 1), and no extra money required by backers. The stated reason for this, which can be seen by watching the extensive documentary on YouTube, is not 'Uh oh, we've run out of money and now we need to do something' but rather a decision had to be made about finishing and releasing a smaller game than they wanted to make, or using their own money to make a bigger game but in 2 parts to make the funding work. They decided to go for the bigger game!

'But this shouldn't have happened with 3.3 million!'

This has been one of the most transparent game development processes ever. Every step has been documented. It is probable that at some stage, almost every game you have ever loved has had to make cuts or change tack midway through development because of similar problem. Full Throttle, for example, had a whole third of the game cut and is now considered a classic. Only two things make Broken Age unique:

1) We heard about the budget concerns at the time, instead of in retrospectives years later.

2) The solution they came up with was quite unusual, deciding to opt for a 2 stage release instead of making big cuts.

The vast majority of backers were very understanding of the decision and satisfied with what they got in the end. In the end Act 2 reviewed about as well as act 1, despite a few reviewers disliking it.

Finally on Broken Age, the original 400k goal is irrelevant. The whole point of the campaign was to make a game from scratch, and the 400k version of that went out the window as soon as the campaign exploded. If they'd released a 400k game on 3.3 million, people would have been furious. They planned on making a 3.3 million game (actually about 2.5, after Kickstarter fees and rewards) and ended up making something more. That's the whole story in a nutshell.

Massive Chalice released pretty much on time and on budget. It's true that it did get a little bit delayed from the initial Kickstarter projection, but first of all that's true of most Kickstarter games (heck, it's true of most games), but the amount it was delayed by was in proportion with the extra funding they got. Money is time.

They did release the game on Early Access for a few months, but made it clear that the game was fully funded already up until the game was released, and as I said above, the arithmetic does work out for that. At this point the game was done except for one major feature, some compatibility tweaks and some balancing - it was a true beta. It stayed on Early Access for as long as they said it would and then got released.

Claim: But Spacebase DF-9! Shady!

Most people here agree that Double Fine made some mistakes with this project. But one botched project doesn't point to a pattern of shady or incompetent behaviour. Especially when you consider that we're only talking about a fraction of the games have produced. At this point Double Fine has shipped I think over a dozen games since they started, a big chunk of those in the last few years, and when they are criticised, people always point to Broken Age (which I've gone through above) and this one. A small fraction of their output.

But let's not beat about the bush: Spacebase DF-9 was, if we're honest, a failed experiment. Not completely. A diminished version of the game is out (and did recieve patch support for quite a few months post-launch, contrary to some reports), and a team of fans has been hard at work modding the game, so the decision to release the source code wasn't entirely in vain. But it clearly wasn't the game they wanted to release.

Double Fine were caught short with this one. They had to put something out onto early access because they wanted to follow the Prison Architect model of using that to keep development going as long as possible. But what they had to start with probably wasn't substantial enough to maintain interest. When people calculated numbers based on the size of the teams, it's evident that their goals weren't that ambitious. The game would have only have had to do a fraction as well as the most popular Early Access titles of the time, to stay afloat, but it didn't get there, and they had to pull the plug on development after a year. If it hadn't been Early Access we probably would never have heard of the game, it would have been quietly cancelled, most likely.

As it is, they felt obliged to release something, and people felt understandably burned. The biggest failure was communication. If people had understood the project was in trouble then the reaction would have been calmer, but it came somewhat as a surprise even to fans, who had become accustomed to Double Fine being pretty open. So the way in which they suddenly announced the move to 1.0 of what many people felt was still a rather unfinished game was pretty tone deaf.

In short: with this one, mistakes were made, many of them quite avoidable. But as an entire case against Double Fine's business practices, it's flimsy.