Did historical Jesus exist?
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According to gospels, Jesus did many unusual things, miracles, cleansing of temple, triumphal entry into Jerusalem, gathered crowds. Do you know that first people noticed it 60 years later? Temple veil, darkness, resurrection of dead - historians and writers who lived in the same time/region as Christ, missed it. But Jews were waiting for messiah! Weird, right?
Life of Jesus, birth, teachings, death - his story is not original. Krishna, Mithra, Horus and few other gods, were first. It's their story.
If you can, watch the video and prove this Fitzgerald guy is wrong, please do it.
No, it's not a boring speech.
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Yes, someone named Jesus Christ was around at that historical era.
But yeah, what he was/is, is up to debate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
It was common name. Talmud did mention few "sorceres" named Jesus, sentenced to death. Unfortunately they lived in different times. Christ is a title. like messiah.
Yeah, he works at the food truck on Riverside.
From what I understand, Jesus did exist. He was a good man who helped and enlightened people in a brutal era of slavery and misery. His power among the people concerned the Roman rulers. They feared losing control of their citizens. So, Jesus was betrayed by a friend and got crucified on a cross. His crucifixion was a warning to citizens on what happens to those who don't fall into line. People like Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy were killed for similar reasons.
He likely existed, if only evidenced by the lengths the biblical writers went to make his character believable as a Judaic messiah.
And where did those tidbits of information come from?
I feel like this thread is destined for the Hammer of Closing.
My Roman Catholic upbringing and rationality on how leaders like to run their countries.
Ahh, so the Bible. That's a great source of factoids.
Meanwhile, I met him in a Mexican prison.
I give it 2 or 3 days.
There's definitely a lot of scholarly debate about what stories in the Christian Bible can be authenticated as actually having occurred and which of those that could be authenticated could then be proven to be correctly attributed to Jesus, but there's little scholarly debate about whether such a man actually did exist. Most historians believe that there was a historical Jesus, because other sources outside of the canonical Christian gospels mention him such as the non-canonical gospel of Thomas, and non-Christian texts such as first century accounts by Josephus and Tacitus.
In fact, because of the account by Flavius Josephus in book 20 of Antiquities of the Jews, which was published around AD 93 (which would only be around 60 years after the date of the crucifixion of Jesus), only a small number of scholars dispute it. Even more, most scholars also have authenticated the account of the crucifixion of Jesus by Pilate written by Tacitus in book 15 of Annals (which began being published during the lifespan of Jesus in AD 14 and was concluded in book 30 in AD 68). Since he lived and wrote during the lifetime of Jesus of Nazareth, almost all scholars agree that his account was an authentic independent Roman source.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a guy named Issa who fancied himself God's son and created a breakaway sect. Abrahamic religion is created on the backs of people who think they have a connection with God.
Hear the thunder of the mighty Thread Mjölnir
Like Mohammed or Buddha he probably existed.
lol
Sorry, Jen. Flavius' words about Jesus are forged. They were added to his text later. Earlier Christian historian says Flavius does not know about Jesus, then (suddenly) here IT is. And the fragment makes no sense. Jewish historian writes - that wise man was a Messiah? In the part about Ancient Rome tragedies? Fake.
About Tacitus. He was born 56, died 117. If he really wrote about Christians, he did it 80 years after Jesus. Got informations probably from (well known then) sect or their gospels. Anyway, story concerned the Great Fire of Rome 64 AD. There were rumors Emperor Nero destroyed Rome but it's hard to believe. Secondary source.
No. Jesus is former military man from Syberia. I'm talking about Vissarion, not Putin.
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Why? Jesus is important figure in history.
Why do this? How about discussing the relevancy or irrelevancy of the Bible instead of just dismissing it? We are talking about a historical character that was either real or not real, let's not turn this into a religious debate...even if the Bible is entirely fabricated, it is still a 2000 year old text that is very important to both Christians and non-Christians, it is an integral part of our current understanding of history regardless of religious views.
We are discussing the historical accuracy about the existence of a person, to which you drew information from a religious book and a religious background. We aren't talking about the relevancy or irrelevancy of the Bible, we aren't talking about the impact the Bible has had and still has on the world.
They didn't do a very good job IMO. Walking on water? That's some Kim Jong-il level cult-of-personality shit.
Because Religion, friend. It's a controversial subject. You could argue that this is about history more than Religion, but this thread is essentially a "debate" on if Jesus actually existed, which can easily be seen as trying to "debunk" Christianity. I just don't see this ending well, unless the thread "dies" before things get out of hand.
To me Jesus (Issa in Arabic) Does exist. I never read the Bible, but he's a prophet in my holy book the Quran. He's mentioned many times in it and there's even a chapter called Maryam (that's Mary in Arabic). just some information I liked to share with you guys.
First of all, lol. Second of all, I was more refering to instances such as making Mary travel to Bethlehem for a census that didn't happen, that way he more fit the definition of the prophesied Judaic savior.
I always think that he walked on shallow waters but the dumb people of the time didn't know it and when they saw him doing that they thought he was walking on deep water.
Debunk? Don't worry. I'd like to believe in Jesus but more I read, more I doubt. There may be someone here who has the proof.
And you believe everything Quran says.
Every story has a beginning, so there must have been a historical Jesus.
Well, in every myth there is likely some truth, but that doesn't mean Hades was ever a real entity in our world. The existence of a story doesn't necessitate the existence of a character. For instance Clementine from The Walking Dead Game was based on one of the art director's daughter, but that doesn't mean Clementine existed.
As Viva says, the Bible isn't a source confirming the existance of Jesus any more than Homer's Iliad confirms the existence of Athena.
I don't think the Bible is good evidence at all for that (as said above, early hexameter poets went to great lengths to portray the existence of Athena, that doesn't mean she existed.
However, Tacitus, a relatively contemporary historian, DOES mention Christ. Now that's a good source.
I don't think the proof of the existence of a christian God is going to turn up in a video game forum as its first port of call.
Tacitus is an important source as he was writing from a Roman perception.
Aye, something must have started the story that eventually got evolved and exaggerated by the people who told the stories to others, then they told others and their version and then so on and so forth.
That's a load of rubbish, no offence. Loads of stories are made out of nothing. Say, Harry Potter. Don't think a historical Dobby existed.
I mean it's like saying Athena, warrior Goddess of wisdom, must have existed because she's a religious figure of Ancient Greece with many myths and description about her. But someone like Athena simply could not have existed in 2nd millennia BC history due to Greece's deeply misogynistic gender roles of the time - no woman would have been able to be viewed as wise, let alone a warrior.
None taken. Maybe I should have chosen another word instead of "must". But what I am saying that there must have been something that started the story in the first place. Something must have inspired them, otherwise they wouldn't made those stories up.
Well again, that's true of JK Rowling writing harry potter, something must have inspired, say, Griphook. If what you're saying is Jesus is not made any more real than Harry Potter by the Bible, then I'd agree :P
The lord works in mysterious ways!
Sarcasm
What I think he is saying is that there was probably a man named Jesus who taught people in religious ways during that time but he probably wasn't any kind of mystic or son of a god. People extorted his life in order to make him more appealing to people.