Hints & Walkthroughs: Could you manage without them?

NabaDwA

There are a lot of people on this forum who have played all monkey island games or atleast a few of them. I'm still playing most of them and I havent managed one yet without getting stuck (well, except for ToMI episode 1 of course).

The point of this thread is just to list the main places you got stuck in each game, or if you managed to complete the game without the slightest hint.
Feel free to list other telltale or old school lucas arts games that are appropriate to mention.

(Use this format:)

MI1: Opening the cake, pulling the nose on the totem pole (never saw it)
MI2: still playing but currently, stopping the waterfall and getting up the tree
MI3: still playing, Slapping the pirate with the glove, using wand on hat to get the ventrilouqism book
MI4: jumping into the lake to get the sutff, getting a prosthetic arm to get the termites

StarEye

I manage all the adventure games I've played, I just need to take my time. And fortunately, I prefer doing that. I don't really care if I'm stuck for a few days (although I haven't been stuck like that for years, so that may not be true today). I played through most of MI2 without a walkthrough back when it was released - I say most because I often did look for hints and walkthroughs in magazines (no internet at the time)- but I'm not sure if I found any I needed. I was young and inexperienced, and I didn't see walkthroughs and hints as "cheating". Today, completing a game with help from a walkthrough or hints gives me an unsatisfied feeling, so I keep away.

I did use a walkthrough for EMI, when I was stuck on Monkey Island trying to make HT remember. That doesn't count though, 'cause I was sure it was a bug before I checked the walkthrough, and sure enough it was. I loaded an older save and then did exactly what I was trying to do that wouldn't work, only this time it did.

Nimeni

I try really hard to avoid using them-- I used to never use them as a kid, when I had little to no internet access. But now that it's easier I do occassionally check if I feel its going to ruin the gameplay for me via frustration.

I generally avoid doing it with TT games, usually don't feel the need, but some of the wicked hard puzzles on other games I feel justified in checking. No way I'm reading an entire library of info to solve a puzzle-- I simply do not have the attention span for that. (But then, I sometimes have trouble watching entire episodes of even some of my favoriteTV shows because my attention span just isn't that long, so I may not be the best person to go off of. )

turingmachine604

Well I played most of them when they just came out. MI 1 and 2 was pre what you have today with just looking up walk-throughs on the internet. Still, I prefer to play the games without any hints, even if I get stuck for days on a puzzle, and I'm proud to say I've finished all the MI games on their hardest difficulties without once looking up a hint. Puzzles are the challenge in adventure games, after all. I mean, I wouldn't like to skip a hard boss in an action game.

It's been a while, so I can't remember all the specific parts, but the moment I was probably stuck the longest was MI 2, in hard mode, trying to get the fake grog from Kate.

phattbooty

I used to be terrible with walkthroughs and used them whenever I felt frustrated enough (this being when I was a kid), but now that I've come through some ridiculous puzzles in all sorts of adventure games that involved things like repetitive action, pixel-hunting, missed locations (argh...that happened in Sam 'n' Max Hit the Road) and combining everything with everything, I have a lot of options to exhaust before I finally give up. The last few times I've given up has been when I thought it was a bug / walking death.

My older brother detests walkthroughs to the extent that if he uses one (e.g. to check if it's a bug so he can stop wasting his time) he abandons the game altogether, which is a shame because I think it's still somewhat of an achievement completing a game only having cheated on a few puzzles. It's still one heck of a good time, anyway!

dragonsong12

Nimeni wrote: »

I do occassionally check if I feel its going to ruin the gameplay for me via frustration.

That pretty much sums it up for me. Playing a game should be fun, and while it's great to have a challenge, it stops being fun if it just becomes frustrating. I don't like to look up the answers, but I will if I'm stuck for a couple of days.

The problem is that everyone thinks differently. While a puzzle may come easily to one person, another will take ages to figure it out. If I end up looking up the answer to a puzzle, I don't feel bad about having done so if I can ask myself "would I have thought of that on my own?" and can honestly answer "no". (There've been a couple times where I looked up something and thought "You moron, how did you miss that?") Which is why, I've actually enjoyed playing with someone else. My sister, for example, thinks very differently from me, so when we both sit down to an adventure game, she can usually get the puzzles I miss and vice-versa, and when neither of us gets it, we can discuss.

As for what I've actually had to look up...Yeah, I had to look up the waterfall thing in MI2 (I think I'll avoid saying it outright and spoiling it for you, haha), and getting the map to Blood Island in 3 (yech!).
...and while I didn't end up looking it up, it took me longer than I'm comfortable admitting to solve the idol puzzle in the first one. (It was so simple, I didn't even think of it!)

Lennie Melvin

Must... not... use... walkthrough...

I try so hard =[
Normally I can get by without them. I just really really don't like using walkthroughs. Makes me feel like I cheated. Which I guess it is.
Besides, dragging out a game by a few hours/days/weeks/months/years isn't necessarily a bad thing.

NabaDwA

yeah i guess when it gets to the point where getting stuck has ruined the game and you stop playing, that's when you cross the border of refraining from using a hint or walkthrough.

This is what happened to me in mi4 and i hardly got anywhere becuase i didnt know you could dive into that damn pond. I missed so much of the game and now i dont have it anymore and now i'll never get to play the rest of the game. Oh well from the responses on mi forums it seems im not missing much.

dragonsong12 wrote:

and getting the map to Blood Island in 3 (yech!)

Yeah you're right, people do think very differently because i managed to achieve this rather easily, but I never thought of trying using a magic wand on a hat?
i guess this is what has made us addicted to these dames. if they were too easy we wouldnt still be hooked.

Jace Taran

I prefer playing without walkthroughs. I try to only go to a walkthrough if I'm *really* stuck. Problem is, once I crack and do go to a walkthrough, it all goes downhill; I start to lose patience quickly & use a walkthrough more and more, until it gets to a point where I will run to a walkthrough almost as soon as a puzzle is presented.

I played through nearly the entire season of Sam and Max Save the World before going to a walkthrough. It wasn't until a good way into Reality 2.0 that I used a walkthrough. It all went downhill from there, and I think I pretty much used a walkthrough non-stop to get through Bright Side of the Moon. Problem is, it didn't go away after that. I had to use a walkthrough to get through episodes 1 and 2 of Beyond Time and Space. :eek:

Avistew

I usually use walkthroughs for other types of games. For instance Final Fantasy Tactics A2, on my second playthrough, I've been using a FAQ to check which weapon or job gives the specific ability I want. For one thing, I'd find it annoying having to try them all AGAIN, and for another, I figure I've already played it, so it's not cheating. It's as though I had written everything done the first time I played, except someone else did (Thanks, btw).

Adventure games, though, I do feel reading a walkthrough is the easy way out.
But... Since the Internet has been available, I can't honestly say that I've ever completed a game without looking for hints.
I usually don't like when the answer is given right away. However, a hint allowing me to figure it out will still make me feel like I found the solution (with help).
I don't think combining everything with everything and showing every item to everyone is particularly funny or entertaining, though. I see it as leveling up in RPGs: the annoying part you have to go through before you can move on to the interesting part.

I agree with different people thinking differently, too. I much prefer playing adventure games with someone else and have never been stuck that way. It's a lot less frustrating.

I guess the ideal game for me would be one challenging enough that I have to think about it to find the solution, but that makes enough sense that I don't end up solving it by accident. Because I have to say, even though I feel bad and disappointed if I look up a solution in a walkthrough, I feel even worse if I end up finding it by just trying everything blindly without thinking.

ivan11111

It was only on Sam and Max season 1 when I finally managed to complete a game without any exterior reference. I think it's the confidence of saying "I will get this, i just need time" and also the past knowledge of how some puzzles have been completed. I've never completed a MI game without help, which is quite sad, I think.

SOMI: this was the first adventure game I ever played, so I needed a great deal of help. However i did manage to get onto the ship and begin to make the recipe before I even found out about walkthroughs. From then on, it got harder and I got worse.

MI2: I've never had the patience to get the whole way through without some walkthrough help. Mostly with things like the monkey wrench and the party, but most of this game is just about solveable.

COMI: I know this game so well now that I could tell you how to complete it like a story. But some of the puzzles on blood island really had me stuck. I remember getting so frustrated with the bloody spring bed!!

EFMI: This wasn't nearly so bad for me. I only needed help a couple of times, i think perhaps on the chess game and then with the palace of prosthetics. Generally though, this game was quite easy.

and then, my most embarrassing moment...TOMI: I just never thought of clicking on the pyrite parrot, so got completely stuck on the doorway. Apart from this, I breezed through. It was such a shame, and i so so regret spoiling it for myself now.
However, if i manage to get through the remaining four episodes spoiler-free I will forgive myself. But only if I manage this. Then, tenuatively, and only then, I will be able to say I've made it through a whole MI game without spoilers.

S@bre

I hate using walkthroughs, as I soon find that I end up following the walkthrough to the letter rather than investigating on my own for future stuff. I played too many of the old LucasArts games this way, but have tried not to with the TTG ones. I had to use one four times for TMI #1 though, but managed to use it only for those puzzles. However, I got sucked into that pattern for the first two Wallace & Gromit episodes.

NabaDwA

With sam and max i started out with season 2 and i couldnt finish episode 1 2 or 3 without a hint or walkthrough's help. But after that i made a concious descision to try and finish the games without a walkthrough at all.

Since then i managed to complete 204, 205 and 101, 102 and 103 without and it really makes u feel a lot better and gives you more of a sense of acheivement when you can complete it on your own.

But to disagree with a point made above, i'd rather try using every object on another and suddenly have one of the variations do something, not actually knowing what to do but guessing, than looking at a hint.
I tried everything on the waterfall pump in mi2, but the "monkey wrench" never crossed my mind. Still, it was better than looking at a hint

Nimeni

I think knowing it's there kind of prevents you from really stretching your mind. Games lasted longer when I was little and didn't know how to cheat on them.

I usually try to figure it out, but find I only have so much patience for doing it on my own. However, recently on The Bogey Man I got stuck enough to want a hint only to find there were none available at that point. So I went through and rethought the problem out and found out I really could solve it on my own, and beat the whole game with no cheats. It makes me think that even though I *think* I'm pushing myself before going for a cheat, its possible the knowledge that I can go for a hint keeps me from putting forth my full effort for solving a problem.

And incidentally, if you just want a hint and not a full-out answer, Universal Hint System (UHS) is pretty good for that. They don't have all of the newer TT games like ToMI, but I just checked and it seems they do have both seasons of Sam and Max.

Jace Taran

I suppose I'm doing a little bit better. I managed to finish Sam and Max Season 2, episode 3: Night of the Raving Dead last night without going to a walkthrough (I also have the in-game hint system turned off, but then I've never turned it on). Probably because I didn't try to play it the next day after playing Episode 2 (when I probably still would have been in an impatient mood).

NabaDwA

I still havent completed night of the raving dead yet... mainly because i was frustrated and looked at hints twice, and that ruined the game for me.
But 204 and 205 i managed to persevere through without any help

thatdude98

No. Most likely I could not survive. I love adventure games, but there are some parts that I just completely blank out on.

meander

I like the ingame hint system being there as a backup for my total stupidity at times. I got stuck on Sam and Max 201 because

I didn't realise you could walk down the street to the COPS new hangout

... after two hours of total frustation, I turned on the hint system and immediately Max said something about going to check it out. Then I switched it back off and was fine

the_boo

When I first played through the Monkey Island games (and really most other P&C adventures) there was no way to get hints or walkthroughs. You had to figure it out. Escape was the first MI game I had where I also had internet access, but I had no idea what a walkthrough was at the time and most cheat sites were geared at consoles.

Brainiac

In general, I try to get through adventure games without walkthroughs. I may look at a UHS file if I get stuck on something long-term, but I may just as likely come back after a few months and suddenly get inspired. More in-depth games with layers upon layers of things to do, like RPGs, I may have a walkthrough on standby; being a perfectionist without an external reference in games like that can be truly annoying.

PariahKing

I use walkthroughs regularly for older games that were designed poorly - the ones that have puzzles or goals that are insanely unclear or near impossible to solve (The Legend of Kyrandia's MAZE OF DOOM being a good example, and several of Roberta Williams' infamous King Quests puzzles [Rumpelstiltskin] being another.

Modern games? Not so much.

drunkenmonkey

Even veteran adventure gamers have to admit that at times there has been a need to look at hints. Sometimes it is a case of knowing what you should be doing, but missing one item somewhere prevents you from proceeding, which is frustrating. Once you have the answer though, you may say to yourself, "Of course why didn't I think of that before", knowing that if you had been a bit more patient, the answer would have come to you in time. Some gamers may be left with an annoying feeling inside for resorting to hints.

For things like maps and things it's fine, you are playing an adventure game, not a dungeon crawler. It was fun to use trial and error and make my own map for the Kyrandia cave and KQ5 desert though.

There have been some truly illogical puzzles that I have seen in games over the years, perhaps creating an object based on a pun with no indication to the player. Or no hinting by the character that the player is almost right, and then the player thinks this may not be the right thing to do and tries other ways.

I think telltale has succeeded in bringing a new generation of gamers to the adventure genre, but with the amount of gamers using the hint section, maybe they are better suited for their shooters or casual games. Tales Chapter 1 was pretty straightforward, although there were a couple of times when I felt like using a guide, but I stuck with it and feel good for completing it without a guide.

To play adventure games you just need a little patience. Better to play through a chapter for a few days without using a guide, than to complete it in the one day with a guide. Half of the fun of adventures is the accomplishment of solving the puzzles for yourself. If you are feeling frustrated with a puzzle, go away and think about it, then come back fresh and willing to try new approaches. Also play lots of older abandonware adventures, you'll be amazed at how many puzzles are similar to puzzles from other games and you'll develop a sense with which you'll identify what kind of puzzle you are dealing with.

wdrpgwd

SPOILER:





I just finished SMI:SE for the first time. I played it over 15 years ago when I was a kid using codes to get by parts I got stuck on. This time around I couldn't remember anything so it was close to being brand new. I wanted to play without getting a single hint and I ended up using 2 of them though I only count 1. I wasn't happy about it and of course it was a blatent oversight.

The first which I dont count was trying to get the monkey to follow me. I knew it was the next step but it wouldn't let me highlight him so I thought I didnt have to give hime anything directly. I needed a hint to tell me that I had to go to inventory first and have it "GIVE Banana" then you could highlight the monkey.

The second was a clear mistake. I didn't put it together that I needed to offer the cannibals the pamphlet of navigation before they gave me the head. Pretty annoying oversight...

It did effect my overall satisfaction.

Ezny

I try to avoid them as much as possible but if I'm stuck for about 4 hours without making any progress at all I get tempted.

Here's a few times I remember needing a walkthrough:

MI: How to properly drug the piranha poodles. [kept putting flower and meat inside boiling pot] Actually called the LucasArts hint hotline before a friend let us borrow the official walkthrough book. Only peeked at it for fun every now and then and didn't really use it much after that.

MI2: Pretty sure I needed help winning the spitting contest.

MI3: [Mega Monkey version] Needed a little help getting Blonde Beard's gold tooth out of the restaurant, and getting rid of the Cabana Boy.

MI4: Monkey Kombat. T_T If I remember correctly there was no walkthrough for that. :mad:

ToMI: No.

Sam and Max S1: Getting closer to Sybil in Reality 2.0, didn't notice that Jimmy's cannon loading animation was a puzzle clue. Well I asked someone on XboxLive, I didnt necessarily use a walkthrough..

Sam an Max S2: No.

Full Throttle: No.

Discworld: Practically needed throughout the entire game just about, those puzzle solutions are so bizarre more than half the time. Looking at Discworld's walkthrough before printing it out on that paper with detachable holes on both sides was the second time I had ever seen the 'internet' lol.



Never got to play Discworld 2...

Toothless Gibbon

I'm another "Old-schooler" who played adventure in the late 80s and early 90s when there was no internet and therefore no online walktroughs.

I actually think the internet was one of the reasons that adventure games lay dormant for so long.

As they became available though I have used them from time to time, but it IS a slipperly slope. Once you've used it once its a lot easier to do again.

I have been strong enough not to use a walkthrough on any of TTGs games (but have used a couple of hints)

NabaDwA

Toothless Gibbon wrote: »

As they became available though I have used them from time to time, but it IS a slipperly slope. Once you've used it once its a lot easier to do again.

That's the problem. Once you get used to it, it actually does limit your perseverence and patience with staying stuck on a puzzle. I played mi1 recently and i had to use hints 3 times, but i didn't stay stuck for long, knowing that worldofmi.com has a nice hint system.

So when i started mi2 LCR, i told myself i wasnt going to use any hints (because in a recent pole, mi fans had voted mi2 as the most difficult)
And, even though starting with the easy version first helped (i was wondering why eveything was so easy), i was getting rather far and i was proud of myself. But i got irritated with the last steps of getting the maps in the bathtub and pile in the tree house.

I knew there was UHS and worldofmi so only after 2 days of being stuck i gave in to those drugs. now it's ruined my satisfaction just a bit...