Did Bill Tiller said too much about the ending of Monkey Island 2?
Checking on of the topics of this forum http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8696 there was in the 1st post a link for a blog of Bill Tyler one of the creators of Monkey Island 3. Among lots of things he said, he wrote the following:
I think he must have had some type of insight of the ending of the 2nd game of Monkey Island. But i dont know, but this blog definetly spat out his though on the ending of MI2. Do you guys think this is how should we interpretate Ron Gilbert's ending?
Edit: I also read from people here that the creators of Curs eof Monkey Islands had no insight on what was the storyline for the sequel supposed to go. But i have no clue if this is true or not
...yes, I’ll make a MI inspired pirate game, but instead of a geeky kid at Disneyland/ Big whoop™ wishing he was a pirate, I’ll make three cursed pirates who start off as ghosts. But that is far as I got, and then I put the idea on the back burner for about six years.
I think he must have had some type of insight of the ending of the 2nd game of Monkey Island. But i dont know, but this blog definetly spat out his though on the ending of MI2. Do you guys think this is how should we interpretate Ron Gilbert's ending?
Edit: I also read from people here that the creators of Curs eof Monkey Islands had no insight on what was the storyline for the sequel supposed to go. But i have no clue if this is true or not
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Dave Grossman has gone on record saying, "Those who know don't tell." Bill Tiller - apparently - doesn't know or Dave is lying to cover Ron Gilbert. I don't know any of these people to make such personal judgments about their character nor do I really care. The explanation I care about is the canon one at the end of The Curse of Monkey Island.
Voojoo Island is looking great as most work from Bill Tyller and I would be pissed of with Lucasarts too if they didn't give the credit my work deserves. But there is no need to bash MI 2 which is one of the best games ever as I feel somewhat is his intention.
There are never enough pirate games and the more the better.
Honestly I think that there's some other explanation that was never brought to light. Curse did the best they could think of to continue on with the series in my opinion. I don't believe Guybrush is a geeky kid at a theme park wanting to be a pirate, but I don't fully accept Curse's explanation either. But it's all we got. But that's another discussion altogether.
There is some debate whether Guybrush is a "real person" or all in the imagination of some kid at Disneyland, due to some events at the end of MI2. MI3 said that it was a hallucination by real guybrush caused by a portal to "heck" created by lechuck.
That is what has been taken as canon up to now, but there is still an issue of whether or not that was the original story or not.
Thats for clearing that up. I have only played 1 & 4. I guess that would explain why I am clueless ay?
Goodness, I think we need to sit down, take a Xanax and try to curb the urge to kill everyone who made, bought, liked or ever thought about anything Monkey Island in a positive light after 1991.
Just repeat to yourself...it's just a game
He sounds like that when you read it. But seems like TTG is in friendly terms with him. Judging by the other topic opened. But that comment on his blog for me stood out alot, because its his judgement. Honestly if thats how MI3 should have run, alot of people would have been pissed off. Since one of the main reason people play this game is for pirate adventures, and not to play a kids imagination fixation. Im jumping the gun on what may have been MI3 in Ron Gilbert's plan, but who knows.
1. Logically speaking, I don't see why the quoted person would even know what the OP says they are giving away.
2. If the Curse staff wasn't blindly stumbling in the dark for an explanation, there would be no debate about the ending.
3. The only thing that genuinely pisses me off in these discussions is that "it's just a game" garbage. We're having CONVERSATION, not planning a coup or basing our lives around someone else's creation. I can have an opinion, you can have an opinion. People are free to agree or disagree. I sure as hell am not going to change my name to Moonbeam Starchild, grasping hands with the community while singing Kumbaya and yelling out that every thought is an individual whathaveyou.
Yes it's just a game. Guess what? That's the whole point of this forum, the General boards being only a very SLIGHT exception(in that they're mostly game-dominated as well). They're kind of important here, in that they're the focus of all discussion.
My real life is not affected by what goes on here. I come to this forum in my free time to discuss games and a company that I love, I do not come here to join in your "just a game" chorus. There are no opinions in this space, there is no diversity, there is no unique spirit. Stop telling me that I can't contribute what I want to the conversation, because everything I said was both valid and on-topic. Don't tell me I'm an overreacting anger management case, because that kind of talking down and diminishing of the value of my opinion and contribution to the discussion is the only thing about this discussion that has made me remotely peeved.
Get this man a copy of Monkey Island 2 and 3, stat!!
Yeah really... I use Vista though... stupid... STUPID VISTA!!!!
Blindly stumbling mess? Did you play the same game that I did?
ScummVM is your friend.
It's a wonderful game, but towards the end it does sort of bend over backwards trying to explain what happened. I might even call that
Listen to this man, roberttitus.
This argument is worth about four words to me: You're right, drop it.
Granted, they could have done far, FAR worse.
Explain Elaine, well, either it's another dimension, she's another kid playing the game (plausible right?) or Guybrush is clinging to the dream. Who can say?
I like to think it's all an elaborate fantasy though, I think it's a nice touch and explains so many of the 4th wall breeches hahahaha.
(PS Curse's explanation is the true explanation as far as I'm concerned)
EDIT: I don't understand why "he's a kid in a theme park" with all the overwhelming evidence surrounding it - look at the TUNNELS even - isn't a secret enough. It's shocking and unexpected and makes for a good twist, even if it finishes off the series. And ultimately what other secret do you really expect Ron to pull? It may or may not be anywhere near as satisfying - maybe worse.
It's like wondering where you can pick up some Mexican while you're standing inside a Taco Bell.
A: Was really planned - he didn't make it up years later after things didn't work out with Cavedog entertainment (people act most of the time like Ron was screwed out of making his sequel, but that's anything but what happened)
B: Will have a super tight fit continuity that explains EVERYTHING. This almost never happens in any medium. A lot of the counterpoints people bring up with probably would be explained away or ignored, to fit whatever mold. It's already pretty confusing for anyone who wants to deny the curse theory - is he a kid or isn't (if not how do I explain the anarchronisms and references to Disney Land)
I think it'll be interesting once Deathspank comes out how we re-evaluate if we really WANT this Ron Gilbert sequel. It'll be his first game in forever and we'll see if he still can hack it. Several authors "lose it" over the years. MI2 came out in 1991. I have nothing against Ron and he's done some amazing, brilliant things I'll always cherish until I'm dead but I don't deify the man. He's not perfect.
I would also be really surprised if it didn't finish the series off and make zero sense with the later installments. At this point MI is proving to be profitable and of a high quality with both Tales of Monkey Island and the Special Edition. Yeah sure, back in April we would've all loved to see Ron's intended game because all looked bleak in the MI department but is that really what we want anymore - an alternate Monkey Island timeline that trounces over the established canon? It's not like he couldn't have told us when all hope looked lost for nine years.
What Telltale is doing looks compelling - and if that cover and their interviews are anything to judge by - and seems to be building off of MI2's atmosphere and mythos anyway, which is what I've really wanted all these years.
I don't want an explanation, I want to play a MI game like MI2.
It all depends on how it is done really, and the reasons for it. As for the MI2 ending, well we can all accept what we want to believe and it gives a good basis for discussion!
There wouldn't have ever been a third game if the entire premise was "kid in a theme park."
I don't think the ending implies a third game was intended. I think it works better as a series closer - look at all the hoops MI3 jumped through to explain it all. I think their effort in this underappreciated - they jumped through A LOT of hoops and managed to create something the fans didn't crap all over. (A miracle in itself.)
And just to be clear, I'm not saying that I believe that the premise is the kid in a theme park, just that I don't think it would have been lame if it had been. Of course, I'd want some more Monkey goodness before they did end it like that!
Have you read much of this thread, I would classify a lot of it as "crapping all over"
This to me explains that CMI didn't have to reach too far to "explain away" the MI2 ending. It was mentioned in MI2 itself! But I still don't think that CMI's explanation is the best one....seems rather silly and clunky. Then again it kind of adds to CMI's whole atmosphere. A sense of over-monologue and master plan speeches that kind of makes it look like a satire. Which works. But I definitely wouldn't buy the "kid in a theme park" explanation. Even if CMI was never made.
Personally, I think the MI series should be unrelated, considering how it's turned into. They should just give up on the whole "canon" thing, and not have a timeline for the events at all. Just have them all as individual stories, unrelated to eachother, kind of like Zelda (yeah, I know there's a timeline, but it's more about the mythology of Link, Zelda and Ganon).
Another thing, how popular aren't reboots of famous series, be it games or movies, nowadays? LucasArts could easily enough reboot the series, and decide only the two first games are canon, and then move on to make a third. Wouldn't it be great if after MI2:SE (if it ever is released) they released Ron Gilbert's Monkey Island 3 in the same style as the first two and as a downloadable title?