What's Monkey Island and what's not - Discussion
Over the last weeks and month since TOMI came out, there were a lot of discussions what MI is and what not. Some people complain that LeChuck has to be that way, and Guybrush has to be this way and mer-people are not "monkey-islandish" and pretty pretty pleeze throw some known place in the mix for nostalgia reasonst...blah.
So, my conclusion was: I think the main problem is the time between EMI and Tales. When there is a long time-space between the "so called originals" and the tales, people mark them as "spin offs" or "reinventions". Am I completly wront here? If I'm right, that would mean, that the Tales have to follow a certein formula, established by the past games, to earn the titel "Monkey Island".
So...there were no Mer-People in the previous games. Does that mean Mer-People are not Monkey Island? And what's with all those gods? Never heard of them besides the volcano god in CMI? Is it good to bring new elements to MI or are you on the conservative side, saying: Never change a winning team?
Im glad to have some new elements in the mix. Brings new freshment into the Legacy!
Or is it all shit, for nostalgia sakes?
So, my conclusion was: I think the main problem is the time between EMI and Tales. When there is a long time-space between the "so called originals" and the tales, people mark them as "spin offs" or "reinventions". Am I completly wront here? If I'm right, that would mean, that the Tales have to follow a certein formula, established by the past games, to earn the titel "Monkey Island".
So...there were no Mer-People in the previous games. Does that mean Mer-People are not Monkey Island? And what's with all those gods? Never heard of them besides the volcano god in CMI? Is it good to bring new elements to MI or are you on the conservative side, saying: Never change a winning team?
Im glad to have some new elements in the mix. Brings new freshment into the Legacy!
Or is it all shit, for nostalgia sakes?
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Comments
I grew up with Monkey Island 1 & 2 and played them untill I knew every single line of dialogue out of my head. Then came "Curse" and I was even more excited since the new graphics were just stunning. But then it all changed when they decided to ruin everything by making "Escape". I don't see "Escape from Monkey Island" as a Monkey Island game at all, but as a mediocre adventure wannabe game.
So for me, there is 12 years between "Curse" and this new "Tales", and thats a lot of time.
"Tales" however, captivates the old feeling of the first three ones, more then perfectly.
I love the new characters (although I would love it even more to see some of the old ones return), the new graphics fit perfectly, the story is very piratelike (not a stupid Australian landowner), the music is wondefull, and Dominic Armato is just the best voice actor in gaming history.
I think Telltale truely did something magical here, and I can only hope they get to make way more "Tales" after this one finishes.
I might even go as far as to say if they keep this good work up, "Tales" might even become my most favorite Monkey Island game up to date!
Good job Telltale!
EDIT: Btw. Escape from Monkey Island was not my first Monkey Island game ever, but it was the first one I completed. And kinda got me into the series. And I don't think it's bad, I like it, and there were a lot of great moments there.
If anything, Tales (so far) is the most "piratey" game in the series, and I'm really glad that we've been seeing an entirely new plot, new locations, and mostly new characters (while still maintaining the feel of the old games). Sure, they can't please everyone, because everyone remembers the series in a different way...but what they've achieved is pretty much the best anyone could've done a decade after the series - they've hit a great mix of old references and new content.
Eh, it's all fine to me.
Sound like Monkey Island to me...
But i dont. I love it. I like the Vaycalians and the little diversity they gave to them by saying, the once lived on the land and then returned to the sea. And all those old relics of their civilisation add an amazing twist and a new dimension inte the MI-Universe!:)
I did't say that. I loved the Mer-Folk, but some fellas think it's "taking it to far" and Mer-Folk isn't Monkey Island.
As I said in another thread, Monkey Island is in the same genre like other pirate stories, like Popeye, Pirates of the Caribbean, Cabin Boy, to the Odyssey, Sinbad the Sailor, Rime of the Ancient Mariner etc.. all which feature fantastical elements because fantastical elements have always been part of sailing lore.
Again what bothered me the most is that there's just this merfolk island sitting in the middle of the Caribbean that every pirate knows about ... merfolk aren't something mysterious and elusive that you only hear in tales. How the merfolk appear in the game is also a cute twist, but it kind of ruins the sense of the original folklore also.
But yeah, the huge gap between games does make TMI feel slightly detached from the original. I don't think we could have asked for anything better than TMI though, Telltale are doing a pretty much perfect job so far. I do think that some more blatant references to old games would help though (Winslow talking about a girl he met on Booty island was good, if we just drift past the familiar Monkey Island landscape or briefly lad on Melee it would be perfect - not sure if many people agree though).
Creepy!
/sorry, I just had to say that/
Hehe, that's *dad for you.^^
To me "voodoo" and "mermaids", while both fantastic elements, aren't quite the same thing...
I did like the merfolks, though, but somehow, i think it could have been more effective if they had kept on being presented as some ancient civilisation now extinct... therefore visiting the ruins of their city, butn ot actually seeing them (and then, why not, meet them and realize there are still some of them around in a later chapter, like when in the leviathan's lair or whatever).
Now i thought they were handled prety wel, and overall it didn't really bother me... I just think it seems, well, not "wrong" as such, but just not so uh... "coherent ?" that they've just been there the whole time but no one ever mentioned them.
But oh well, are they monkey island or not ? I dunno, and i don't care, as long as they fit in the story, and so far, besides this minor thingie, they do, so i'm okay with them.
And to answer the original qustion : what is monkey island ?
Well i'd say...
Monkeys.
And Islands.
The problem is that this reasoning applies to everything after Monkey Island 1. "If it existed, then someone must have mentioned it at some point in Monkey Island 1" is what it boils down to, eventually.
- curly clouds!
- humour and dark comedy in a creepy world
- anachronisms
- obviously pirates
- monkeys and other animals like seagulls, dogs, manatees
- magic
- islands and ocean adventures
- intelligent dialogues
- good puzzles
- enganging story
- memorable and funny characters
Considering TOMI, especially Episode 2 fits Monkey Island quite well.
Personally, for video games, I admire change a lot more then sameness.
Merfolks? Why not? We've seen lots of magic in the previous games, and mermaids are logical in a story with sailors. Should they be mysterious/extinct? I'm not sure, but if I counted right there were exactly 3 of them. I don't think they're a blooming race, or if they are, maybe these 3 are the one who deals with humans while the other ones prefer staying hidden.
Maybe they just needed to do business to survive so they went out of hiding or something.
At any rate, I didn't find them out of place and I liked the way they were dealt with.
My only beef is the humor, it's somewhat similar but also somewhat different. I don't know how to explain it, but this new one seems to have a bit more... "nerd humor." It's a conspiracy, talk to the hand, etc.
Mermaids are fine. Mermaids show up in heaps of pirate folklore. Heck, I reckon one will show up in the new POTC movie.
So stop complaining. TOMI ROCKS!
There is first and probably most popular - involvement of Ron Gilbert. By this, we conclude that MI 1 and 2 had lots of MIQ (Monkey Island Quotient), Curse not so much, and EMI none at all. Telltale games by this metric would have some - RG was consulted with.
The second we might use is prescence of Stan. Stan has been in all prior Monkey Island games. So far there is no Stan, so by this, all other MI games are MI games, and the Telltale games are not.
The third might be the MIQ is inversely proportionate to the ammount of fan moaning along the lines of "OMG you ruined MI this is not a MI game." This would probably be similar to the RG measurement too.
I started playing MI when I got my brand new 486 DX/33 (I think?), so I think I qualify as a hardened veteran of the series.
I started playing MI at SOMI - the CD version on my brand new 486 DX/33 (I think?), so I think I qualify as one of the old hardened veterans of the series.
Ultimately I think the final and most important though is your gut. Did you have fun playing TT's games? Was it as much fun as the previous ones which were "Monkey Island"?
Personally going by the last one I'd say they're definitely MI games. I haven't seen much moaning here either other than "Where's my click to walk?" I think TT has done well so far.