A little too easy

I remember when playing Monkey 1, 2 and 3 when I was a little boy it was SO hard to solve the puzzles... playing for months to acheive a little task.

Chapter 2 I solved it entirely in just 4-5 hours without hints :(
Hopefully chapter 3 will be impossible and I will be stuck for several days :P

Cheers :)

Comments

  • edited August 2009
    yamobe2 wrote: »
    Hopefully chapter 3 will be impossible and I will be stuck for several days :P
    Sorry but this will never happen. It's just not Telltales Style to have unfair puzzles.
    And still 4-5 hours is quite long. Multiply it by 5 and you have more playtime for 35$ than in any other 50$ adventure game that has been sold in the last 10 years.
    Okay maybe Myst IV took more time to complete the first time. But that is an exception and a recommendation if you like impossible puzzles. But then again: the game is not at all funny.
  • edited August 2009
    When I was a little boy, I had trouble counting to ten without using my fingers. Now it comes second-nature. Since then, I've also started using prepositions in everyday speech.
  • edited August 2009
    I think 4-5 hours without hints is what TTG are aiming for. The games are designed to be played in 1-2 sittings.

    Ep2 took me just over 5 hrs which was slightly more that Ep1 - That is more than I was expecting before the series started.
  • edited August 2009
    yamobe2 wrote: »
    I remember when playing Monkey 1, 2 and 3 when I was a little boy it was SO hard to solve the puzzles... playing for months to acheive a little task.

    Chapter 2 I solved it entirely in just 4-5 hours without hints :(
    Hopefully chapter 3 will be impossible and I will be stuck for several days :P

    Cheers :)

    You answered this problem in your post. You were a kid when the others came out. Of course they are going to be much harder back then. And 4-5 hours on just one chapter is pretty good, considering that there are 4 other chapters with later ones most likely going to be increasingly difficult.
  • edited August 2009
    i thought the first one was easy. and WOW this was even EASIER. come on telltale, make me think!!!
  • edited August 2009
    Your mom is a little too easy. J/K.
  • edited August 2009
    Well, I remember playing Super Mario 1, 2 and 3 and dying every 2 seconds, getting a GAME OVER with NO SAVE at all.
    Games today are a lot more fair and fun for the user.

    You don't die in games. You don't get a GAME OVER with no save point.
    The reason for that is that people are tierd of wasting a life-time on solving a game.

    Same thing with adventure games:
    The average user would rather have fun for 4-5 hours (which, smartlly, can take you a week if you play less than an hour a day).
    Playing 24\7 for half a year to solving a game is a waste of a lot of time and energy.

    15 years ago it was really fun. I remember that as well. But actually, I think being able to solve the puzzles with LOGIC and not randomness is a lot more fun, even though it makes the game a lot shorter.


    p.s.
    I started playing Full Throttle recently, and boy, this game is just plain ANNOYING. The puzzles are so stupid and unlogical, you could NEVER think of them without trying all of the possibilities. After 10-20 minutes of playing I just can't go on. It's no fun, not fair, and you can't solve it without a guide or some hints. After a while, i'm actually thinking of giving up. This game isn't worth my time if it's just not fun playing.

    I'm glad games today don't have the "too hard for a human" problem.
  • edited August 2009
    Amaterasu wrote: »
    p.s.
    I started playing Full Throttle recently, and boy, this game is just plain ANNOYING. The puzzles are so stupid and unlogical, you could NEVER think of them without trying all of the possibilities. After 10-20 minutes of playing I just can't go on. It's no fun, not fair, and you can't solve it without a guide or some hints. After a while, i'm actually thinking of giving up. This game isn't worth my time if it's just not fun playing.

    You can't be serious.

    Full Throttle's puzzles are fantastic. And quite easy, too - definitely easier then MI2's or The Dig's for example. The only irritating bits are the action sequences, especially the motorcycle fights. But puzzlewise Full Throttle is ingenious.
  • edited August 2009
    There are some dumb puzzles in Full Throttle - namely the
    end sequence
    . But most of them are easier, so it's easy puzzles mixed in with a few "what the hell" type deals.

    Still one of my favorites though. Very atmospheric.
  • edited August 2009
    How many of these threads do we need? 20? 35,000? bajillion?
  • edited August 2009
    Full throttle had one annoying thing, it was pixelhunting the button to open the backdoor
  • edited August 2009
    Oh, right. Forgot about that one.

    But I still think the motorcycle fights were the worst part of the game. First you have to wait for the randomizer to give you the opponent you want to fight, then you fight both him as well as the lousy controls, and after you lose you are left wondering whether you fought badly or you are missing something puzzle-wise.

    Still, even with its faults, the rest of the game is so charming and full of character it's easy to forgive the warts. I still chuckle when I remember the way you get your hands on fuel for your broken motorcycle or the bunnies scene with Wagner blaring in the background...
  • edited August 2009
    I feel so dumb whenever one of these threads come up.
  • edited August 2009
    Oh, right. Forgot about that one.

    But I still think the motorcycle fights were the worst part of the game. First you have to wait for the randomizer to give you the opponent you want to fight, then you fight both him as well as the lousy controls, and after you lose you are left wondering whether you fought badly or you are missing something puzzle-wise.

    Yes, this exactly. And even when I do win I don't seem to acquire anything that made it worth bothering. I haven't really enjoyed Full Throttle at all aside from some of the humour and now that I'm having to battle through the motorcycle fights I'm not sure I'm going to carry on...
  • edited August 2009
    The basic problem was that while you are supposed to use specific weapons on specific opponents, it is pretty hard to be sure whether you ARE using the correct combo or not.

    For instance, to get the chainsaw you have to throw fertilizer to the guy (or was it a girl?) yielding it. Yet you have to collect the fertilizer first, which is not obvious. Only the board works against the vulture, and you need the chainsaw to get the board. The guy with the booster on the other hand can be beaten with the simple chain, but you have to be quick; I mistakenly assumed that he, too, needs a special weapon or some other prerequsite (like putting oil or something on the road so he would crash) and it was quite frustrating to realize that it was not the case.

    Destruction derby is also kinda frustrating, but at least that one provides some in-your-face hints what you should be doing...
  • edited August 2009
    Not to be mean or condescending, but when I was seven or five years old I managed to bypass the motorcycle fights with no hints. I think it took me about an hour. And I am far, far from a puzzle genius - I spend a long time on each Telltale episode. Sometimes six but usually eight hours.

    I just find it bizarre how so many adventure gamers find the smallest action puzzle sequences so annoying. I can understand some complaints for some more annoying action sequences or parts in that game, but the motorcycle fights aren't that bad - it's no MI Monkey Kombat.
  • edited August 2009
    PariahKing wrote: »
    Not to be mean or condescending, but when I was seven or five years old I managed to bypass the motorcycle fights with no hints. I think it took me about an hour.

    So which is it? Seven or five? Or was it three?
  • edited August 2009
    So which is it? Seven or five? Or was it three?
    I don't know. But it wasn't three.

    I think I had played Super Mario so I had some inbuilt patience for that kind of thing.
  • edited August 2009
    It's not too easy, we're just too smart! Hmm, that reminds me of the line from Grim Fandango...
  • edited August 2009
    I said this in another thread but would just like to reitterate, does anyone else feel like we're playing ToMI: Lite Version (like the 1st option in MI2) where things seem to come by a bit too easily. In the earlier MI titles you would hardly ever get anything just by asking. The bucket, the raft ticket/coupon thing, etc just came too easily.
    I'm can't remember as far as the 1st episode but i got the same feeling during that too. Causing a fight in the bar was too easy aswell.

    There has been a general outcry for the episode's puzzles to be slightly more convoluted for quite a while and you sometimes wonder if the guys at Telltale take our frustrations into account when working on new episodes....?
  • edited August 2009
    Nobody seems to remember the TTG interview where they said they were no longer in the business of defeating the player. These episodes are much more widely appealing than a harder game would be. Hence their success.
  • edited August 2009
    Nobody seems to remember the TTG interview where they said they were no longer in the business of defeating the player. These episodes are much more widely appealing than a harder game would be. Hence their success.

    No, i missed that interview, thanks for pointing that out.

    But don't you ever feel that after receiving items like the raft ticket and the bucket so freely that they could have done a bit more, make it a bit more of a puzzle?
  • edited August 2009
    I'm pretty happy, actually. I don't know about you, but I went crazy every time they added a new puzzle just to postpone acquiring an item in Monkey Island 2. On the other hand it was nice to have the already great game being lengthened just a little bit longer. And sure it was great back then, but I don't have as much time as when I was a kid anymore anyway. And I also don't consider these TMI episodes "lite mode." They're, to me, somewhere in between lite and hard. MI2 lite was insanely easy. Easier than TMI is so far.
  • edited August 2009
    I'm pretty happy, actually. I don't know about you, but I went crazy every time they added a new puzzle just to postpone acquiring an item in Monkey Island 2.

    Hate to break it to you, but obstacles in your way to the goal *are* the actual game. Otherwise we would have this: :)


    Talk with merperson.

    - Guybrush, you need three summoning artifacts. They are on the shelf over there, be a dear and get them for me please.

    Go to shelf. Pick up artifacts.

    - Good work Guybrush! Here, have Esponja Grande!

    Pick up Esponja Grande.

    - Yay, the pox is lifted! You won!

    (credits)
  • edited August 2009
    NabaDwA wrote: »
    No, i missed that interview, thanks for pointing that out.

    But don't you ever feel that after receiving items like the raft ticket and the bucket so freely that they could have done a bit more, make it a bit more of a puzzle?

    Only if it makes sense for the story. Elaine giving you the ticket works for me, because with her personality I figure that when she goes on vacation she brings along a map, two tour books and immediately buys a Citypass upon landing. You're told you get the pass from the chieftain, who is busy angrily arguing with a maniacal half-zombie pirate at the time. To have the chief suddenly stop arguing and say, "Oh yes, you want a muni ticket? Here you go. Now, where was I? Ah, that's right! You will never get our holy trinket!" would be kind of weird. And the bucket ... it's a bucket. Having to solve a puzzle to receive a mundane item can be funny, but it can also be kind of boring. Like the first puzzle you have to solve in Wallace and Gromit, where you have to make Wallace breakfast. It's a good introduction to the series, but having to make someone breakfast is actually more fun in real life than it is in the game. For me anyway. At least all the puzzles that are in The Siege of Spinner Cay are fun, for me at least, and I think that's the most important thing.

    P.S. I don't want anyone to think I'm casting aspersions on Mr. Hartzell here. I think he's a good game designer, The Bogey Man being tied for my favorite Wallace and Gromit episode, it's the just the first entry into any new series is usually the "weakest" for Telltale. Which makes sense, it's the introduction. ToMI has actually surprised me with how good it was right off the bat.
  • edited August 2009
    King's Quest V is a prime example of how not to make an interesting adventure. Basicly first half of the game you run around a city, doing silly errands (Even though a bad mage just kidnapped your familly) for people you don't know (Even though you're the king). There are around 20 characters, just as many items, no one is giving you anything, there's a maze that can kill you for no real reason and umm... you know why you do all the crap? so you can get an item which distracts a snake from the path you are SUPPOSED to go. It's just annoying as hell and makes no sence. Just go around the snake you idiot! Or use a freaking sword and go save your familly. Gosh!
    Sorry about that unrelated rant.

    Now. I think the way you get items in these two cases is nice. The bucket parrodies the adventure mentality, while the ticket is something your wife just had. Are you supposed to armwrestle everyone for every old shoe and a crooked nail in sight? Sometimes people would just give you things if you ask them nice enough.
  • edited August 2009
    Hate to break it to you, but obstacles in your way to the goal *are* the actual game. Otherwise we would have this: :)

    Hate to break it to you, but that's your opinion. Sometimes they were more than mere obstacles. I can deal with obstacles. But blatant non-story driven (that is, having nothing to do with the story whatsoever) grasping-for-straws attempts to make the game seem longer is boring. At least nowadays. And, again, I speak for myself. Don't take what I say to be truth for everyone. And don't try to convince me of your own views.
    Spadge wrote:
    Basicly first half of the game you run around a city, doing silly errands (Even though a bad mage just kidnapped your familly) for people you don't know (Even though you're the king).

    KQ5 takes place in Serenia, not Daventry (where Graham is king). So no, you aren't the king. Doesn't anybody ever watch the intro sequences? But yeah, I agree with you about most of it being nonsensical.
  • edited August 2009
    Hate to break it to you, but that's your opinion. Sometimes they were more than mere obstacles. I can deal with obstacles. But blatant non-story driven (that is, having nothing to do with the story whatsoever) grasping-for-straws attempts to make the game seem longer is boring.

    So.. MI2 is full of blatant non-story driven grasping-for-straws attempts to make the game seem longer? :confused:
  • edited August 2009
    Not filled with, but yes.





    ...in my opinion. Still a great game. And I enjoyed it at the time. I just don't anymore.
  • edited August 2009
    So.. MI2 is full of blatant non-story driven grasping-for-straws attempts to make the game seem longer? :confused:

    yes it is. But it was still fun when it was released.
  • edited August 2009
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    yes it is. But it was still fun when it was released.

    Examples please. I really can't think of a single one: puzzles in LeChuck's Revenge may be considered too hard, sure, and sometimes unfair; but never "blatant non-story driven...". Many overrated adventure games from recent years were full of frustrating puzzles which had absolutely nothing to do with the story; but Monkey Island? Gameplay here is always deeply story-driven: puzzles are an integral part of Guybrush's world and adventures.
  • edited August 2009
    I can only think of few they might consider irritating. There's the one when Elaine throws her map piece through the window and whenever you find the way to get it something snatches it away in the last moment. But come on, that bit is both fun to solve as well as funny as hell. The moment when Guybrush (finally) enters the tree where the bird took his map piece and sees not just one map piece, but gazillion of them is one of the funniest scenes in the entire MI series.

    The other one is the battle with LeChuck near the end, but it's not a blatant non-story blah blah - it's integral to the story as well as a nice parallel with the first battle with LeChuck in MI1.

    Apart from those, every puzzle in MI2 is downright perfect, logical and story driven. If you took some of Sierra's Quest games as an example, or some recent(ish) dreck like "The Longest Journey" (which tries to hide the lousy puzzle design by smothering you with what feels like weeks of neverending badly written dialogue) then I might agree, but MI2, one of (if not the) best point-and-click adventures of all time? Come on.
  • edited August 2009
    I agree with the people who say this episode was too easy. I pretty much walked through it without doing any thinking at all. *YAWN* It was always pretty obvious what you were supposed do next and how the items should be used. I agree that it's no fun if the the puzzles are TOO hard either, but there should at least be a challenge.

    The puzzles could get a lot more creative too. In the previous MI games you had to be pretty inventive and use and combine items in unexpected and not so obvious, yet almost always very logical ways once you thought about it. I didn't see much of that in this game. Take the “hot coals-puzzle” (if you can even call it a puzzle) for example, … surely Telltale could have come up with a more clever way for Guybrush to pick up the hot coals then to simply give you a bucket.
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