Why are these episodes so damn easy?
What is the audience for these games? I think my 7 year old brother would beat this with no problems
Hopefully Telltale makes some more difficult puzzles. I mean - we have to wait for months between episdoes, lets at least make each episode somewhat challenging.
I think I spent less than an hour total on episode 2.
Hopefully Telltale makes some more difficult puzzles. I mean - we have to wait for months between episdoes, lets at least make each episode somewhat challenging.
I think I spent less than an hour total on episode 2.
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Well, some of us aren't gifted with the talent of adventure gaming. Took me 2 days. I wanted to enjoy it. Plus, just because it was easy to you doesn't mean it's easy to others.
A month. Singular.
That seems like oblong logic. We have a week between TV episodes, but neither we nor the producers of the show are expected to stretch that episode's content across the entirety of the week. It's a thing that you get once a month because that's the release schedule that makes sense, not because it's supposed to "last" you that long.
All the same, I would always like to see well-devised puzzles. A stupid puzzle that is difficult only by the virtue that it is completely obtuse and indecipherable is not fun. Neither is a puzzle that simply involves locating a minuscule bauble of indeterminable worth. I used to believe that it did, simply because the amount of time it wasted was larger, but in the end it goes against the idea of a puzzle in the first place.
Still, Telltale's games are getting to the point where they feel like they bend over backwards to get the player to the correct solution, and puzzles sometimes even seem to solve themselves. The best puzzles are always the ones that have more logical complexity.
Let's say each episode is about 3 hours to play (for those who aren't leet adventurers), that would mean that the whole season would take around 15 hours to complete. That's pretty impressive and much longer than the traditional adventure game.
Also, some puzzles are easy but I'm ok with that, they don't seem too outrageous and make sense most of the time. But what I wouldn't mind seeing are Myst style puzzles. That would slow people down
Um, your math is off a bit. If each episode took 3 hours then the whole season would take around 15 hours. I'd give each episode an average of 3 and a half hours to complete which would average the season out to about 17–18 hours.
Also, the episodes should get gradually harder from here on out.
And I'm glad we have inventory combination as it's one thing that was missing from Sam & Max games.
I think TT is making a good job, especially as most puzzles are fairly logical, something you can't tell about most adventure games.
And no pixel hunting here, which is great. As least the difficulty is real and not because of bad design.
Compared to earlier Monkey Island games I think the puzzles are easier, I think. Whether you're good at solving puzzles or not.
I don't know, it all goes back to just how keen you can be in solving puzzles. I found some of these puzzles to be much harder than in past games, and many of the puzzles in past games to be easy. I think everyone has a knack for certain puzzles and have a cord with other puzzles.
Also remember, the last game came out over eight years ago. You are now eight years older and wiser. That could be a major reason why these puzzles appear easier than the other ones in past games. We were all much younger when the other four games came out.
Also, I don't think it's insulting to say it's easy. The game has a hint system for people who have difficulty solving the puzzles. However, if people, like the OP and myself, are finding the game with hints turned off too easy, then something should be done about it. This also wouldn't effect people who find it hard already, because, once again, they have the hint system to help them.
I really don't think Telltale is purposely making it easy though. There seems to be a lot of people who have had a hard time with the game, so it doesn't seem to be all that big of a problem.
If you find the episodes too easy with the hints turned off, I suggest pulling out some old-school point-and-clickers. Preferably Sierra ones where you die all the time and have to reset all the time because you constantly miss some item from half a game ago.
Took me 4-5 hours to complete the game with the hints turned all the way to the left (lowest), and that to my mind is a decent length for an episode.
When I heard that many people had only taken 2 hours to finish it though I started to wonder if maybe I had just taken too long to solve the puzzles, until I realised that most of them had not changed the hints from default at all.
I understand that Telltale wanted to make this game friendly for the more "casual gamer" but it is just to easy. I mean, i am no hardcore gamer but i would prefer the game more challenging. I remember Curse of Monkey Island having two difficulty settings. Perhaps Telltale could introduce this idea back into the game?
Turning the hints off effectively creates a "hard" difficulty setting.
Also, MI2's and MI3's "easy" difficulty setting was essentially the same game but with many of the puzzles pre-solved or cut out. I never saw the point of that. If I wanted an adventure game with LESS puzzles, I might just as well watch a cartoon while wiggling a mouse in one hand.
The bucket and the tiny island are not puzzles. It's just pixel hunting. Actual puzzles in Spinner Cay were flat (I'm tired of listing all of them in each of these difficulty threads), and people keeps mentioning the bucket and the island as fine examples of complex puzzles which had them stuck. I really don't mind pixel hunting at all, it's an integral part of the genre, but please don't say gameplay in this second chapter was rich just because you spent half an hour looking for a bucket.
QFW. Like I said before, when a game gets too hard it stops being fun. We all like being challenged but Telltale has to tread a fine line appeasing veterans and making their games accessible to the casual gamer. That's why choose your hint level system is in place.
If you still find it too easy with no hints then maybe you should try some harder games. Sam & Max Season 2 gets quite challenging
But the hardest Sam & max episodes were not S01E01 or S01E02. You want people to get hooked on the story, not get turned off because they're stuck.
I would have been shocked if the first 2 MI episodes were harder than the hardest Sam & Max episodes.
(and as a not-particularly relevant aside - LucasArts' Sam & Max game was a lot more difficult than any one of their Monkey Island games).
If the developer wants to make the game really hard for these kind of gamers he must either severely break the established conventions (risky, because the conventions are precisely what adventure gamers like) or make the game chokeful of puzzles that are either horribly complex or require ridicilous amounts of pixel hunting or insane logic. It's doubtful that these kind of games would have ANY general appeal. I really like the example of Gabriel Knight 3 from that "Death of Adventure games" article - where you have to make a fake moustache by taping a masking tape to the fence where a black cat will eventually pass, and consequently put it on your face using maple syrup. What?
The Monkey Island series (and other Telltale offerings) seem to walk the fine line quite gracefully so far. The puzzles are logical but still fit nicely in the slightly off universe the game is set in. Sure, if you are an old-school point-and-clicker you will find them a bit on the easy side (compared to old adventure games) but I would never call them "too easy". They are imaginative and fun to solve. I might have appreciated them a bit harder, but I, too, consider myself a veteran of adventure games so I'm not that objective. And I see my girlfriend (hardly any kind of gamer) enjoying the "Tales" by herself, and I consider this a great thing - it's not common that I buy a game which both of us can play and enjoy.
This isnt 1990, basicly everyone that has downloaded this game also has access to the internet, If you where stuck when the original Monkey Island came out, you couldn't just use a hint system because there wasn't any, or look the walkthrough from internet. Then it was truly frustrating to get stuck, but now we have a hint system and if that doesn't help you can allways come here and find a direct solution to a problem in minutes.
First episode took me 3-4hours, this one was 2-3hours with hints turned all the way down and without looking up thing in the forums, and I went through most of the dialogue too, so I wasn't trying to break any records but just enjoy the game. The longest I was stuck involved an island that I missed on the map, that tells something about difficulty level here...
Edit. Also the jungles in both episodes seem like they where just put in there to make the game longer, sure in episode one jungle actually was used to solve some puzzles but here its just mostly waste of time in my opinion.
Edit#2. Just to clarify, ep1 was fine with duration but 2nd was shorter and easier, just hoping that next ones won't be even shorter.
A good example on how a "verb" puzzle is more difficult than just clicking on it, is the dandruff-puzzle in CMI. - You have to "look" at the coat first to even discover its there. and you have to "open" the pocket to discover the glove.
If this puzzle were in ToMI, you simply have to click on the coat.
Personally, I have no problem with this, and I think ToMI has offered a fair amount of variating puzzles that has a logic and rewarding feeling to it.
Sooooo, you are saying one should make games for the 10% of the "hardcore" or "veteran" people who always complain things are to easy and ignore the 90%, and then get startled when the games don't sell or make a profit? :rolleyes:
edit: also a note on IQ tests, don't put to much credit to them, they are basically the same as they were in the 50's when they were designed after white college students. Anyone can get a perfect score in their third attempt, regardless of how intelligent they are.
And if you want jokes, intriguing storyline and unique piraty atmosphere, go watch Pirates of the Caribbean.
No, seriously, this is Monkey Island. It's the quintessential adventure game. And adventure games are about clever puzzles and compelling gameplay. The Secret of Monkey Island revolutionized the genre because of its incredibly fun gameplay: it wasn't just a collection of funny piratey cutscenes, it was the perfect adventure game!
And why is everyone praising logic? Logic is overrated, really. I don't want an adventure game to be logical, I want it to be fun! It has to startle me continually, it has to twist logic (being consistent in doing this, mind you). Take for istance the marvellous underwater puzzle in TSoMI: you're trapped under the sea, held by the Idol of many hands, surrounded by sharp objects; you try cutting the rope, checking your inventory: but everyday logic doesn't work, and all you have to do is pick up the Idol. Briliant.
but I much prefer this to any pixel hunting or just completely inlogical puzzles/combinations of items! and what is said before; you don't have to rush through the game, take your time and try every talk option with every character, enjoy the surroundings.
for example I personally loved the skeleton on Isle of Ewe (I-love-you haha
also, the manatee toy singing "A Pirate I was meant to be" damn I must have used that 20 times
No way. If they started to do things like this, soon you would be using monkeys as wrenches just because there is a tool called "monkey wrench". And we simply cannot have that kind of stuff.
*delete post*
*slap face*
Puzzles ARE important, and thinking back, the series have given us some amazing, unique, absurd and illogical ones that truly defines Monkey Island:
- The Idol underwater puzzle you mentioned in SoMI
- the monkeywrench puzzle in MI2
- The trapped in a snake/quicksand puzzle in CMI
- The Myst o' Time puzzle in EfMI
- The direct-control puzzle in DeSinge's lab in ToMI
I thought it was enjoyably easy. I would like some longer puzzles that require you to visit more locations in order to complete them... sometimes you get an item early on and you can tell what the puzzle is going be before you've even got to it... but if Sam and Max season 2 is anything to go by, it WILL get harder.
why? well, authors back then weren't exactly concerned about the game difficulty and whether the game will apply and be likeable to everyone, including young gamers mostly. probably because adventure games were so popular that they didn't have to do that. they could just include every insane idea about the puzzle they had.
telltale is a big company because it's making adventure games in great classic styles trying to keep them going forward - it's big in deeds but you have a financial aspect too. so, when you also have to think whether your game will find the interest in all sorts of gamers that means there have to be some compromises, and compromises in terms of the difficulty as well. i don't wanna sound like - telltale sold itself to please the young gamers, because its a problem that goes a little over the telltale itself.
i was worried when i heard before the first episode that telltale said - we don't wanna make new monkey island games too difficult. that's ok as long as adventure gameplay is a lot above the cassuality level regarding puzzles itself, steps to complete puzzles number of puzzles and so on.
what i would like to say - telltale is more or less on the good path with a puzzles. i'd like them not to be afraid to make puzzles a little harder, or include more of them, more items, combinations and so on. don't let that some twisted crazy bizarre idea you have about some puzzle be left out because you think it could prove of a little too much. it could just turn out into a classic - a classic that everyone will like.
i totally agree! as i always say adventure games are moving toward a "click and watch" style and this is really sad. but i even understand that todays players are different and games are made for them.
What i really dislike in this kind of threads is the total lack of a compromise solution. I mean, if you say something bad against TOMI it is like you're insulting someone and viceversa. If people asks for more hard puzzles (just to stay in topic) it doesnt mean that they want illogical or pixel haunting puzzles...
it is just a game afterall...
Because when a puzzle ceases to be logical, it ceases to be fun. The TSoMI puzzle is extremely logical (you've been keeping the idol in your inventory all along, so why can't you just pick it up?); this is an excellent puzzle because it pokes fun at the typical adventure gamers' habit of over-analyzing.
A true illogical puzzle is the rabbit short-circuit in Sam & Max Hit the Road. Is the puzzle fun? Only in the sense you see sparks flying around Max; more likely, the gamer will feel stuck and frustrated.
THIS.
Spiffy pretty much nailed the issue with 'hardcore' adventure gamers. I have tried to get many of my friends into adventures, so I've seen first-hand just how lost a person new to this genre can be when they first play such a game. It has nothing to do with intelligence (well, perhaps it does a little), and even people who are capable of lateral thinking will be a little overwhelmed if they have zero experience.
Guh, I hated that puzzle so much. That and the candy/passport one. GK3 could've been great, and I still enjoyed it immensely, but parts of it were just plain ridiculous. Still, this game has what is, in my opinion, one of the best riddles in adventure games ever: Le Serpent Rouge. I have never had so much fun and felt so good after solving a puzzle than when I completed this. Good times.
Compared to Infocom and Sierra games, the LucasArts adventures are far simpler. And they did this intentionally. Take this piece from the Sam and Max manual about the LucasArts game design philosophy:
That people consider LucasArts some bastion of difficult adventure game design is pretty hilarious to me. They were the ones that trimmed away conventions, for better or for worse, to make games more accessible.
True, but there is an equilibrium which can be found (and it's something which Telltale has accomplished countless times: Screaming Narwhal is perfect, its world doesn't work according to everyday logic -
- Poxed pirates require a golden turtle, you prepare one with the conveniently provided mould (but the barbecue needs coal and a knob; and you'll also need to find the shortest route);
- McGilligutty keeps destroying your mast, you replace it with a rubber tree (this one could have been pretty entertaining, but in fact all you have to do is speak to the poxed pirates again);
Give me some thrills, please! I'm not asking for a "monkey wrench", I'm only asking for something less obvious. Anyway, I really need to stop whining about this... The games are excellent, and I know I won't be disappointed by the next chapters.
About logical/illogical: my statement of logic being overrated was something of a boutade, I admit it... The game world has to be consistent, of course, and the cause-effect connections must be transparent to the player; but, again, there is a right equilibrium, and a Monkey Island game needs a twisted logic of its own to be properly fun. More examples from TSoMI:
- Grog becomes a metal eroding substance only when you need it to free Otis (illogical);
- you give the rat repellent to Otis (logical, the character asks for it) to get Aunt Tillie's cake, which contains a file (twisted);
- you give bananas to the monkey (logical), but you need the monkey to keep the Giant Monkey Head gate open (twisted, unexpected);
etc.
I never said that. I know what LucasArts philosophy was, and I knew what I meant: it revolutionized the genre indeed, and not by making puzzles harder or easier; just by making them more fun.