Brutal Legend
I know this hasnt got anything to do with Monkey Island,But is anyone looking forward to this game done by Tim Schafer and starring Jack Black...coming out on October 16th in the UK
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80's and later...pfft.
Then came the first of the marketing bonanza, with the spurting testosterone and gratuitous use of scantily clad, impossibly built women as props for the main character, and/or to sell the game.
...I think I may have broken some sort of record for how fast I lost interest in the game after that. (Which I still feel is a real shame, because I'm a big fan of all of Tim Schafer's other work, and up until that point, the game was looking truly awesome. I wish Double Fine all the best, but...I can't get past the epic marketing fail; sorry.)
Heh, I think that is the first time I have ever heard someone use marketing as an excuse. Strange times.
Luckily, I love ALL of those things.
Trust me, this is NOT a game driven by marketing. Schafer had to fight hard to keep from compromising his vision for the sake of marketing, in fact. In the sense that it was a platformer, perhaps. J&D and R&C were cartoony mascot games that happened to have a jump button, but they were holding onto "platformer" gameplay by a strand.
The first Jak and Daxter was definitely a platformer. Not a gun in sight, if that's what you were meaning.
Someone said something similar to me when I brought up my objections to the original teaser trailer, and I stand by what I said then: no, it's not justified, and yes, IMHO, you could do the game without the so-called Amazonians. ...Or at least you could do the game without the Amazonians who look like they've removed a few ribs, and/or are a nasty spinal injury waiting to happen. Look at Full Throttle--given the story's biker roots, it could've devolved into this sort of nonsense, if given the chance. (Or if the wrong marketing department got its hands on it.) It didn't. And nobody saw a need to give Ben a harem, either.
I agree with you that the game isn't marketing driven (Tim's games never are), and perhaps I phrased my first post badly. Still, marketing driven or no, those images raised my hackles the first time I saw them--and still do.
I think you shall find that Ratchet & Clank as well as Jak and Daxter essentially epitomized what was so great about the Platforming genre, just as the likes of Crash Bandicoot had done years earlier. The gameplay was sharp, refined and well executed. Whereas Psychonauts felt very stiff upon occasion and were it simply a platforming game without Double Fine's characterization and script - I think it would have failed to make much news at all.
Please tell me you are joking and not suffering from an extreme case of the highfalutin? This game is aimed at a Mature audience and I would hope you had the ability to realize it. The art design is heavily stylized and if you are incapable of understanding that I am completely dumbfounded. Please just do an image search for "Frank Frazetta" or "Metal Album Covers" before going completely AWOL and blaming Double Fine.
And Psychonauts was no different.
Um? Believe me, I'm well aware that it's aimed at a mature audience. And no, I'm not joking: that's just my opinion. You're more than welcome to disagree with it if you like, but insulting my intelligence is completely unnecessary.
As for the images you posted--I don't take issue with the entire art style. Not in the slightest. What I do take issue with is the way many of the female characters have been designed. As for your Psychonauts comparison...sorry, but that one's lost on me. There's a world of difference in character design between the two games.
I understand that this might be the reason for not liking it, but it also means that you just CANT possibly get rid of those if you're going to deal with it.
(and please don't get me wrong : i do love that stuff and i'm clearly one of the retarded teenagers mentionned above
I really hope you didn't mean that those "oafs" were supposed to be as sexually titillating to female gamers as the scantily clad love slaves were supposed to be for male gamers.
And I think what Tyraa is trying to convey is that it seems like 97% of all female characters in games are eye candy and/or sexual fantasy fodder. There are companies that create female characters as varied and interesting as the male characters, but they are not the majority and Double Fine was one of those companies. Scantily clad women in a Heavy Metal world is expected, but it should also be expected that there be some bad ass, weapon toting Mama's too, and it doesn't seem there are. I mean the very first glimpse we get and the female characters are snuggling up to Riggs like sex kittens.
Male gamers complain all the time about how they are often portrayed as violent, antisocial, unappealing losers. So imagine a director you like, who had shown gamers in the past as diverse, multifaceted characters. Now that same director is making a movie where every negative gamer stereotype is played straight. I'm willing to give Double Fine a chance and play the game if I can, but that's in spite of the fact that the end of that video was like a slap in the face. I'm hoping that the marketing is just marketing, and that there is actually far more to the female characters then we've been shown.
A game based on heavy metal without Amazonians is like a donut without a hole.
Hell, anything based on heavy metal without Amazonians is like a donut without a hole.
I don't know anything about heavy metal, but what I do know is that Brutal Legend is based on the actual legends heavy metal bands sing about. THIS INCLUDES SCANTLY CLOTHED WOMEN.
I mean, if it's any other type of game, I can agree that it shouldn't even need this, it shouldn't need women portrayed as sex objects. But not in this game. This game actually REQUIRES them. They're part of the legend. They're part of the way of life of what it takes to be a heavy metal band. With them this truly is the Brütal Legend.
*Guitars shredding*
No, they're just another part of the "retarded teenager fantasy".
Ommiting that kind of crap in anything heavy metal related would almost be blasphemy, really.
Spinal Tap (a fake documentary parodying all those hard rock/heavy metal clichés) got it right :
Of course it's silly, but it's part of the fun, and it really shoudln't be taken seriously. Most of the guys who play with this whole macho image don't even take THEMSELVE so seriously
Also, i don't remember it so well, but i watched a video of the begining of the game, with schaffer commenting in it. A secondary female character was introduced in there, and she was pretty badass AND not so much your classic stereotype either (actually, she even seemed brighter than jack, who kept acting as is she was the usual sexual object chick, so the joke was more on the average metal head than on the women themselve).
As far as the marketting goes, though, they're really telling everyone "hey, this is THE heavy metal game, dudes !", so relying on the usual clichés makes a lot of sense, and not only in order to raise sales, but just to... well, rock :eek:
But I don't give a damn, it's still feckin' METAL. It's is gonna rock so hard...
And yeah, I don't get the sexism/homophobia/eliticism/general machismo in metal. It almost ruins the whole damn scene for me.
What's worse, they could have used "Arma...geddon", a song that not only fits the criteria, but it also fits the humorous tone, AND comes from an album that still desperately needs exposure thanks to a massive marketing failure.
/rant
Yeah, End of Low isn't getting the attention it really deserves. Sure, it probably is no one's favourite, but come on.
@Astro Gnocci - Don't boobs get you banned or something? I think they maintain a 12+ thing here.
THEOL is definitely under-appreciated. I like how one person at the (now defunct) Heirophant forum described it: "It's like a greatest hits album from an alternate universe."
But yeah, on the subject of the sexism: I get where both sides are coming from, but it really should be taken with a grain of salt. Metal has always been about ridiculous gender stereotypes, and Brutal Legend is spoofing a genre that is already spoofing itself, so it has to push things to 11 (hee).
I think people are growing a little too testy about this considering the game has yet to be released. I would not disagree that the majority of women within gaming are portrayed as little more than sexual fantasies for what is still considered a predominantly (teenage) male audience. Yet I think a little common sense and understanding is required when being able to discern the differences between believable characters and the "ideal" fallacies which are plague almost every creative medium.
Thank you for actually reading my post, and allaying my fears. To the other people who said, "Yeah, but those chicks need to be in a heavy metal game," I didn't say they shouldn't be, I said they shouldn't be the only female characters. Please excuse me for sounding testy, but this is about the millionth time I've had this conversation.
I don't know if you count those as "mosters" or "women", though. *insert joke about women being monsters*
I also think Ophelia is a lot more attractive than the random scantily clad bimbos throwing themselves at Eddie, but maybe that's just me.
For the record, I thought you knew about Ophelia, and so I misunderstood what you were taking umbrage to.
Incidentally, Jack Black's epic falsetto makes me wonder if he doesn't count as a strong female lead as well.
I am busy anticipating the true greatness that is Brütal Legend.
Too much work for some, dude...
But still, I'm gonna do it out of respect.
ü!
Also, it's not like the game rely on the use of scantily clad women. Like all of Tim Schafer's games, its strong point is still the writing and the atmosphere.
And about the soundtrack, I just wished they included Wonderboy. It's not metal, I know, but it sounds so appropriate.
Not just you. NOT, just you.
Anyway, a friend of mine (who loves metal, and has his own heavy metal band at its basics) disliked the visual quality of the game, he says it looks too cute and childish. Well, what's expected is something comes out from an album cover of Manowar of course, but I'm not sure... I really like the "caricature" feeling of the characters and thier take-ons on actual metal artists. Maybe it's because I like Tim Schafer's view on things, I'm not really sure. But to me, that cartoony feeling is just perfect. Kinda like Ren and Stimpy, but makes a lot more sense.
Unrelated fact; I LOVE Motörhead.
Regarding the scantily clad women - I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but the world of Brütal Legend was based on the images of album covers. Like Bat Out of Hell (Meat Loaf), Number of the Beast (Iron Maiden), most of the Manowar albums, etc etc. That's like complaining if a WWII game doesn't have Jewish NAZIS.
I just "u it. It automatically comes out as ü.
You might feel releaved that in this game NO women actually is like the harem in the promo video.
There are two other female "lead" character in the game, but none of them ever is the damsel in distress.
I can understand how girls can be offended by the outfits and the usuall Heavy Metal world. In this game however I never had the feeling that one of them is the weak "Please help me, I'm so helpless and my closes are falling of off me, also I like to be your slave" stereotype.
I know what I'm talking about, I played it