In Marlon's Defense...[SPOILER]
Dex-Starr
Banned
Whether you agree with his actions or not, he did make the right choices as a leader in the very end. This unnamed group Marlon and Brody were so terribly afraid of aren't a force to be reckoned with. Marlon wouldn't have given up Minerva and Sophie to protect everyone else if this wasn't so, and Brody wouldn't have kept this between them for so long. In order to save 12, he had to sacrificed 2. Brody telling Clementine about their dark secret would've wreaked havoc at the school, so silencing her served to keep their secret from disturbing the peace he was trying to maintain. Yeah, he would've offered Clementine to the raiders if it came down to that, but he would've done so only to protect his own. As a leader, the security and well-being of his group had always been his #1 priority, and it's evident enough he would've done anything to maintain them. The current situation is no better than it would've been had Brody kept the secret to herself.
Comments
There was no right choice here. Only fucked ones. And I don't think that's something people are really understanding when they're coming for Marlon's head, unfortunately. I'm seeing people say he should've given himself up. I'm seeing people say he should've fought. Clearly, no one is putting themselves in Marlon's shoes and if they are, aren't presenting rational arguments. Only arguments based on morals and emotions.
He gave up 2 kids. Obviously, it was a tragic thing to do, but when all your choices are tragic, I don't really know what anyone expected him to do that would've made the situation better. He sacrifices himself. What happens next? Nothing good. They don't stop. They come for more.
They fight back. They're kids and inexperienced. Chances are they all die or are held captive.
Nothing good comes from any of his decisions. Like I said in a different thread. You have to make the choice that saves the most lives long term. I DON'T agree with Marlon, but it's not like I have a better solution to the issue.
Either way, it was going to end very badly no matter what he did. But the cost of two is less than all of them being attacked and targeted and they are all teenagers after all, very unlikely to hold out well against more experienced and hardened adults. I don't envy his position of being a leader of a group at his age. He did seem worried for the safety of the inhabitants of Ericson's. It really sheds a new light on the "killing one to save many is part of survival" speech from In Harm's Way in a very dark way. Marlon gave up two in order to save the pack from slaughter. It makes him seem more human in the sense of being this Rise Above All badass leader we thought he was, is just a scared hot head kid. Still we know bet little about this Raider group, but if it is filled with the likes of a scrawny beta male like Abel I'd say they are a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully we're given more context of what exactly happened between Marlon and this group in the next episode
Okay I'll give Marlon the benefit of the doubt and say sure maybe he was out numbered when they went hunting and the girls got taken. But there is no excuse for not telling everyone what happened. At the very least they could have got a rescue party together. He is not a great leader, he is a coward. He should have told everyone what happened and see what everyone else wanted to do about it. Sitting and not telling the people in your group what happened, and just waiting for it to happen again is not what a good leader does. Because if they would have came back asking for more kids; to what end would he stop giving up people? What, every time someone else is given away would he have lied again? I ask again, to what end? He's just making his group weaker. He's a coward, nothing more than that.
Edit: It's better to die for something, than stand for nothing.
If he told them, obviously the majority or unanimous response would've been to rescue them. But let me say this right now. They would've all died or worse. Notice how not a single kid had a possession of a gun in that school. AJ was the only one. Everyone else made weapons from the resources around them and Marlon had a crossbow. The adults have guns. It's literally bringing funiture to a gun fight. Staging a rescue is unrealistic. At least that's how it appears for now. Let's see what Clem does about this.
That being said, the choice he made(sacrificing 2, saving 12) was the right choice. If one out of all the fucked up choices is more favorable than the rest, then that choice is the right choice.
A rescue effort doesn't mean they have to go in guns blazing. Recon, stealth, and sabotage are all valid options. That's why Clem will ultimately be the leader, because she knows this. Staging a rescue isn't unrealistic. Marlon was just an idiot and coward.
And what do you do when things go bad? These are kids no older than 17. The kids have never had to deal with intelligent threats. Only walkers. That's how they've managed to survive. In a perfect world, recon, stealth and sabotage can definitely work, but this isn't Home Alone or Jimmy Neutron. All it takes is one mishap, and they'd be extremely lucky to survive that one.
And that's why Marlon should have told them the situation, so all the kids could have decided. Who cares if something goes wrong. It's the apocalypse, people die. Taking action is way better than waiting for the raiders to come back and prey on you. That's what a leader would have done.
Here's what they don't know:
1) where they are located
2) whether or not Tenn's sisters are still alive
3) where his sister's are being held exactly
4) how many raiders there are
5) how to fight against actual people
They'd be launching a spec ops rescue mission with no experience, no weapons, and too many unknown unknowns.
"Who cares if something goes wrong." "It's the apocalypse, people die."
Sure wouldn't want to be a part of a crew led by you.
This is what they don't know now because of waiting too long. When the raiders took the girls as Marlon I would have tailed them after the fact. I would have found where they were located and did recon daily on how many there are etc... I would have told everyone else what had happened and to see what everyone would like to do about it. Then I would have came up with a plan relating to the information I gathered.
And that's why the vote would have taken place. There's a reason why I said to see what everyone else wanted to do first. If everyone would have said "sure let's get the girls back" Than yes, who cares if something goes wrong because they signed up for it and know the risk.
Marlon was not a good leader for doing what he did, he was a liar and a coward. Offering girls to a rival group as a precedent was incredibly short sighted. What happens when they come back and expect more girls as offerings? Marlon was on his way to becoming a slave trader/human trafficker. He was already prepared to give both Clementine and AJ to this group. He could have been honest with his group. He could have taken the group and left the boarding school to go somewhere else. He could have done anything besides the horrible thing he chose in the end and it's not because he was making a hard choice as a leader, it was because he was scared and didn't know what to do.
I agree he should've told them. But I don't see them coming up with any other response but to go rescue them.
Then what kind of plan are you talking about? You have to care if something goes wrong. You have to be prepared for it. You have to know what to do in case of a setback.
A leader chooses the best plan to ensure survival. Was Marlon a good leader? No. As far as I'm concerned, those raiders won't stop pressing Marlon. But like I said, no option is a favorable one. It's either 2 dies or they all die, and you seem prepared for all of them to die.
But where are you going to take that big a group in that short amount of time? You can't really expect them to just travel in the woods for days or weeks hoping that they find another house big enough to hold all of them.
They don't necessarily need a home immediately. They all know how to fish, trap, hunt, and cook. There's are no infants in the group, pretty much everyone can carry their weight. They could easily get out of dodge and survive until they find a new place to live. Important thing is getting far away from this group of (probably) child rapists.
For Abel to have been by himself when stumbling across Clementine and AJ inside the station means his group has fewer members now than they had back when they took Tenn's sisters, otherwise he would've had backup with him. Every faction always sent more than one scavenger on supply runs(TNF, Monroe).
It's a complete stretch for you to assume that. We know hardly anything about how this group operates. And if they take human beings from groups as tribute it's entirely possible that they've grown in numbers since Marlon dealt with them. Not to mention the fact that Abel already knew the food was in that train station, he was probably just picking up some and didn't expect to run into other people
Yes I would be prepared for them to die if they all decided that they would like to rescue the girls. They'd be sneaking into a bandit camp. They should be prepared to die, it would be a risk. But again, it would be better than sitting waiting to be preyed on yet again by the bandits. There would be no way I'd let 2 people of my group die without a fight, especially if the rest of the group were to decide to rescue the girls as well. Yes a leader chooses the best plan to ensure survival, but a good leader also take opinions of those he's leading into consideration.
Sorry, but I'm not sending a whole group of people to possibly die just because a rescue was the right thing to do.
See you're talking about dealing with the bandits a year after the fact. I'm talking about Marlon dealing with the bandits when it happened. They obviously let both him and brody go after they made the trade. What was stopping Marlon from tailing them and finding out where their camp was located?
Well that's your take on it. If everyone in my camp would have agreed, I would've tried to do something.
It's a complete stretch for you to assume they've gone around snatching other people and making them soldiers. All we really know is that these two girls were taken. There's no real evidence proving they've done this to other groups.
He didn't know the food was there, he said he heard the noise and followed it.
Selling off the twins for protection to protect the entire group of kids from armed maniacs who would just kill them all if not. So his hands were tied - Feasible and defendable
Abusing Brody out of fear his secret will get let out, physically and mentally making her crack and then murdering her with a flashlight and having the nerve to blame it all on Clem when the secret comes out. Turning the group against Clem like a coward - Scum, piece of trash. Unforgivable.
Twdg community:
Marlon gives two girls over to a gang of rapists and kills Brody
I sleep
AJ justifiably kills him
R E A L
S H I T ? ! >:^(
I really like the idea a them running a rescue mission, but those 2 lives wouldn't be worth the 12 that could be lost trying to save them.
I FORGIVE HIM
LOL, I DON'T
It's better to die a hero then live to be a Coward
Exactly!
Yeah boi
Guess I'm a coward than because i'm not giving up my or other people's lives out of some sense of justice.
I don't begrudge Marlon trading the twins at all. We don't know all the details but it's likely the 4 of them crossed paths with several armed adults and he accepted a deal that saw at least some of them making it back to the school. Sometimes you get put into a no win scenario and all you can do is minimize your losses. Accept the deal and lose two, or fight and likely all die.
What I do begrudge Marlon is lying to everyone else about it and not making an effort to find and get the girls back and I doubly begrudge him killing Brody (albeit accidentally(kinda')) and trying to pin it on Clem. Fuck that. Own up to your mistakes, kid.
It's not for justice. It's the simple fact Marlon dictated what to do with other people lives. He gave 2 lives away. He had no right to make that decision. There's no way in hell I'll sell someone into slavery.
And...it's still not worth risking lives (Being the hero) to try to fix that mistake. That's what i'm saying.
Did you mean to reply to me...? Because I agree with you, Marlon should have taken any other action besides giving away two girls and then lying to the rest of the group about it.
No I was basically saying if Marlon would of act sooner the group would have had more information on the bandits.
Whoa how do you get that? AJ just shoots him for me. Do you have to take the gun from him?
Well I'm glad you asked. Here's my entire video.
Oh Aj still shoots him lol.
The best way to have gone about getting their girls back if Marlon had been honest from the beginning would've been to capture one of theirs(Abel would've been perfect for this since he was by himself), force them to disclose ALL of his group's information, and THEN come up with a plan to rescue them if they were still alive.