Essentially.
@Zombiekiller3121 AM I A JOKE TO YOU?
No, but a lot of people were quick to disregard you because "Pacifist is bad."
Also, because mystery tends to fizzle, it seems.
To be fair, The Enemy Within actually kinda requires that from what I hear.
Another complaint I have with the season is how some of the characters are so wacky. It's like the writers auren't even trying to take a realstic approach. They're just so stereotypical.
Probably unpopular opinion here, but I honestly don't mind that. I mean, it's really only Louis and Willy who'd count, particularly the latter, but yeah. It helps that they honestly aren't THAT out there.
But in saying this I will say that I had the same complaint for S1, only there the characters just had a lot more character.
That's a thing I've generally thought: Season 1's main cast was rather mundane and simple compared to much of what came afterward. They were just lucky enough to be in the first and unfortunately best/longest of the games.
Season 2 and sometimes ANF felt like they wanted to have each character be distinct, but didn't have the time or consistency to do so.
Could they have not made Ruby a 21 year old mature nurse, Omar the school chef but he's disabled and acts as a 'Walter figure' just throwing out ideas here.
Okay, the Omar idea is definitely something, but I think it's safe to say that Ruby is one of more solid ones not named Louis or Violet.
In part because of her relationship with the school nurse, even.
Like, why did Willy have such an entrance?
Kinda like Francine in ANF, I and a few others couldn't help but think he was supposed to be rather plot relevant.
Though overall, yeah, he's supposed to be the weird kid.
Ngl I love this thread. There's just so much to talk about what went wrong. Another thing you've got to consider is that perhaps if this gam… moree had a standard budget they'd be able to make it an actual Telltale game, because choices sucked ass in this season. I don't feel like replaying the episodes more than once, as opposed to Bman S2 where I did so 4 times.
Yes, believe it or not hes just a youtuber talking about shit Mundle says on his blog. They arnt going to revisit them, the only character w… moreho has a chance at all at appearing is Javier, and thats a 0.001% chance of him showing up. If we're going to use Mundle's blog as """""proof""""" theyll come back, he already said they wont. Garcia's are done, Mundle is just saying their alive because obviously they are alive if thats how they were last scene, he isnt going to write some long ass story about how Javier died or some shit on his blog.
Forias is 100% right. Choices this season have sucked. Whenever I look at the credits, I always see choices there that make me go “Wait, tha… moret was a major choice?” Like in episode 3: Why does the bomb name or walkers in James camp matter?
Only good choices have been
* Louis/Violet - I know it’s a generic save A or B choice but these 2 choices branch a lot
* Shoving Abel into Walkers or lowering the gun - Because the scene was so well made
* Dorian Cutting Off Louis or Violets finger - It was cool having a choice that wasn’t balanced out for once. There was a genuinely wrong choice
* Shooting/Sparing Lilly - Really well choreographed scene, they better not ruin this in episode 4.
They better kill it with the episode 4 choices and branching. If there are 2 or less real endings then I’ll be frustrated. This season has literally had no choices the change anything. So many of this seasons issues could of been solved if Mitch was dete… [view original content]
I was fine with Marlon's death actually,his role was perfect and it made sense for the plot i guess.
But they had no excuse with Mitch i felt like they did a decent job with him and by the end he kinda grew on me but then they threw all that character's development away for some cheap ass shock value,they really wasted an opportunity to make him a determinant character there imo.
There's also no determinant characters like Ben or Conrad this season i personally feel like they missed the opportunity to make Marlon a determinant character in episode 1 but that's just me.
Better.
Ngl I love this thread. There's just so much to talk about what went wrong.
Thanks,i really liked the discussions i've had here with everyone.
Another thing you've got to consider is that perhaps if this game had a standard budget they'd be able to make it an actual Telltale game, because choices sucked ass in this season. I don't feel like replaying the episodes more than once, as opposed to Bman S2 where I did so 4 times.
I agree,it's even worse now that Rewind's gone i replayed Batman S2 two times (the last episode) because they were completely different but there's just no replay value at all this season.
My opinion on this might change depending on what they do with Lilly AJ and James in the last episode though.
Ngl I love this thread. There's just so much to talk about what went wrong. Another thing you've got to consider is that perhaps if this gam… moree had a standard budget they'd be able to make it an actual Telltale game, because choices sucked ass in this season. I don't feel like replaying the episodes more than once, as opposed to Bman S2 where I did so 4 times.
Clem and AJ's connection is no where near as strong as Lee and Clem's
While this is undoubtedly true, I think Clem and Aj’s relationship is more unique. Lee and Clem had the very basic/classic substitute father taking care of daughter relationship, I’m not saying it was bad by any means because it was done remarkably well. Clem’s relationship with Aj is very unique though because of how Aj is so different compared to Clementine from S1 or any other normal kid. Teaching Aj has more layers then teaching Clementine because of how he was born in the apocalypse. But yea, beating Season 1 in this regard is basically impossible, Sean was a writing god. I’m just glad they went a different route with Aj and I personally think they’re doing a fantastic job.
tfw people say its impressive people care about AJ now but you already know that when clem dies due to aj's actions suddenly everyone will hate AJ because Clem and AJ's connection is no where near as strong as Lee and Clem's
I find AJ and Clem's relationship to really pale compared to Clem and Lee's. For me the biggest issue is how unlike Lee and Clem where the player experiences their non-established bonding from the start, Final Season already has it established before you even get to play. Theres also a few scenes where Aj and Clem just go "I love you" and the player has no choice in the matter, they will always say I love you no matter what. I mean theres the scene in episode 3 where they get in the big argument then AJ comes back like it never happened and starts saying how he loves Clem and Clem says it back, player gets 0 input. Season 1 purposely didnt make Lee and Clem say things like this, especially against the players will, as it doesnt feel natural for the player, it feels like the game forcing you into it, which doesnt make you feel as attached.
Clem and AJ's connection is no where near as strong as Lee and Clem's
While this is undoubtedly true, I think Clem and Aj’s relation… moreship is more unique. Lee and Clem had the very basic/classic substitute father taking care of daughter relationship, I’m not saying it was bad by any means because it was done remarkably well. Clem’s relationship with Aj is very unique though because of how Aj is so different compared to Clementine from S1 or any other normal kid. Teaching Aj has more layers then teaching Clementine because of how he was born in the apocalypse. But yea, beating Season 1 in this regard is basically impossible, Sean was a writing god. I’m just glad they went a different route with Aj and I personally think they’re doing a fantastic job.
Why do you think mindlessly killing off characters for the sake of it would improve the season? That's been one of my biggest gripes with previous seasons and one of my favourite parts about TFS is that they've slowed them down but made them matter more to the plot instead. No more 'Ava died a hero' shit.
I agree with almost everything said here. TFS does not feel like a TWD game at all. It's tone and focus is completly different to the previo… moreus 4 seasons. (I must say at least episode 1 felt like a TWD game unlike eps 2 and 3) Here are my main issues with the game.
* The boring ass setting and lack of movement
The school and woods are boring, and that's where we spend 85% of the game. The train station and boat were really cool, but we only spend 2 and 1 scenes in each of them respectively. This means that there have only been 5 locations in TFS total (counting the fishing house.) Back in season 2, we had the rest stop, campsite, Luke's cabin, the hideouts with Pete/Nick, the lodge with Kenny, the Howe's truck, Howe's (which was huge, much bigger than Ericson's) the historical site, the Civil War museum, the lake and the unfinished, house, and other rest stop where Kenny VS Jane occurs, and Wellington.
The first 4 seasons had some … [view original content]
I think he means that the character deaths that do happen arnt really heart wrenching or have that big of an effect on the player. Marlon and Brody's was memorable because the twist of Marlon's real goal and the fact he killed Bordy. Mitch dies no matter what in the same episode they decided to make him a character. Then Lilly can die, but even ignoring how badly she was handled in general, player isnt going to feel that much reaction from her death, and then James is similar to Mitch. Didnt really have a character until episode 3, same episode he dies (and even then his character is pretty forgettable)
This is all compared to deaths like Carley/Doug being killed, dropping Ben or Kenny going in to stop Ben from turning, Omid death ect. We are way more invested when these characters died because it feels like we built a relationship with them. We've had history with Carley and Doug for 3 episodes now, and now she is killed. Build a relationship with Ben and then given the choice to let him die. Built a relationship with Omid, then he is killed. Im not even covering all the deaths here, but the difference is all the deaths in Final Season happen the same episode that character got development.
Marlon/Bordy big focus in episode 1, dead by episode 1. Mitch large focus in episode 2, dead in episode 2. James focus in ep 3, dead in ep 3. It feels half baked, cant get that attached to characters when the episode you actually learn about them is the same they fucking die.
Why do you think mindlessly killing off characters for the sake of it would improve the season? That's been one of my biggest gripes with pr… moreevious seasons and one of my favourite parts about TFS is that they've slowed them down but made them matter more to the plot instead. No more 'Ava died a hero' shit.
Also quickly about Omar, I actually hate how Mundle goes like "haha Omar memes XD" like as a creator, that shouldnt be funny. The joke is how hes a fucking worthless excuse of a character. That shouldnt be funny to you.
Nah, I wouldn't say worthless. Just another case of them having a lower key character that they don't do much with largely because they focus on more important and/or elaborate ones, resulting in limited focus on him.
@4k60fpsHDR goddamm dabig how do you have time to write so much im kinda impressed in a really twisted way
Eh, it's really not that much. It just looks like a lot because of how spaced out and numerous the quoting was.
Also, I saw your post ahead of time and might've thought up what I wanted to say before I was able to reply. Which wasn't much.
@iFoRias Dabig,sir. You already replied to this post before
Did I? I didn't remember seeing it before.
Ah well.
"The writers like fucking over Louis so it makes perfect sense."
Kent Mundle doesnt really keep it a secret that Violet is his favorite c… moreharacter, which obviously kinda shows based on how the game treats her compared to others (like Louis. I mean the others like Omar arnt even real.)
Also quickly about Omar, I actually hate how Mundle goes like "haha Omar memes XD" like as a creator, that shouldnt be funny. The joke is how hes a fucking worthless excuse of a character. That shouldnt be funny to you.
I think he means that the character deaths that do happen arnt really heart wrenching or have that big of an effect on the player. Marlon an… mored Brody's was memorable because the twist of Marlon's real goal and the fact he killed Bordy. Mitch dies no matter what in the same episode they decided to make him a character. Then Lilly can die, but even ignoring how badly she was handled in general, player isnt going to feel that much reaction from her death, and then James is similar to Mitch. Didnt really have a character until episode 3, same episode he dies (and even then his character is pretty forgettable)
This is all compared to deaths like Carley/Doug being killed, dropping Ben or Kenny going in to stop Ben from turning, Omid death ect. We are way more invested when these characters died because it feels like we built a relationship with them. We've had history with Carley and Doug for 3 episodes now, and now she is killed. Build a relation… [view original content]
I find AJ and Clem's relationship to really pale compared to Clem and Lee's
AJ and Clem are good. Not bad. Not great. Not memorable. Just good. I don't really think an ending paralleling s1 (AJ shooting or leaving Clem) would have as much of an impact this time around because of this.
I find AJ and Clem's relationship to really pale compared to Clem and Lee's. For me the biggest issue is how unlike Lee and Clem where the p… morelayer experiences their non-established bonding from the start, Final Season already has it established before you even get to play. Theres also a few scenes where Aj and Clem just go "I love you" and the player has no choice in the matter, they will always say I love you no matter what. I mean theres the scene in episode 3 where they get in the big argument then AJ comes back like it never happened and starts saying how he loves Clem and Clem says it back, player gets 0 input. Season 1 purposely didnt make Lee and Clem say things like this, especially against the players will, as it doesnt feel natural for the player, it feels like the game forcing you into it, which doesnt make you feel as attached.
@Dat1Wizard246 While this is undoubtedly true, I think Clem and Aj’s relationship is more unique.
Essentially.
@Poogers555 For me the biggest issue is how unlike Lee and Clem where the player experiences their non-established bonding from the start, Final Season already has it established before you even get to play.
Uh, can I just say I never quite had a grasp with this mindset?
@Cheddarhead they've slowed them down but made them matter more to the plot instead. No more 'Ava died a hero' shit.
What was extra insulting about that is that she was the character that had a lot more to do with the overall story.
@4k60fpsHDR I swear, based on this logic Willy is next....
I was fine with Marlon's death actually,his role was perfect and it made sense for the plot i guess.
But they had no excuse with Mitch i … morefelt like they did a decent job with him and by the end he kinda grew on me but then they threw all that character's development away for some cheap ass shock value,they really wasted an opportunity to make him a determinant character there imo.
Yeah I think thats better worded. Like its not awful by any means, but its really forgettable, and like I said the whole Aj and Clem starting this relationship off screen and the constant reminder of how much they love each other doesnt help me feel connected at all.
Sadly I think Final Season is going to be forgettable overall like most Telltale games these days. Which is a bummer, I want a memorable ending that feels satisfying (but I cant remember the last finale Telltale did that truly was satisfying since Tales episode 5.)
I find AJ and Clem's relationship to really pale compared to Clem and Lee's
AJ and Clem are good. Not bad. Not great. Not memorable.… more Just good. I don't really think an ending paralleling s1 (AJ shooting or leaving Clem) would have as much of an impact this time around because of this.
I think he means that the character deaths that do happen arnt really heart wrenching or have that big of an effect on the player. Marlon an… mored Brody's was memorable because the twist of Marlon's real goal and the fact he killed Bordy. Mitch dies no matter what in the same episode they decided to make him a character. Then Lilly can die, but even ignoring how badly she was handled in general, player isnt going to feel that much reaction from her death, and then James is similar to Mitch. Didnt really have a character until episode 3, same episode he dies (and even then his character is pretty forgettable)
This is all compared to deaths like Carley/Doug being killed, dropping Ben or Kenny going in to stop Ben from turning, Omid death ect. We are way more invested when these characters died because it feels like we built a relationship with them. We've had history with Carley and Doug for 3 episodes now, and now she is killed. Build a relation… [view original content]
I hope none of you take it that I have been ungrateful for the final season's effort, but I have to be honest and say that it is bad compared to previous games. I have felt nothing sentimental and was a fan of Clementine.
If I'm keeping it real I just don't get how we went from Batman s2 to this. Same Stitch and Done Running were amazing episodes. Hell even MCSM 205 and Batman 204 were steps in the right direction. I just don't get how this season has turned for the worse so quickly. Surely something must be going on among the SNB team?
It's like we made 1 step forward with the 4 episodes I mentioned above and then took 2 steps back with TWD 403...
Yeah I think thats better worded. Like its not awful by any means, but its really forgettable, and like I said the whole Aj and Clem startin… moreg this relationship off screen and the constant reminder of how much they love each other doesnt help me feel connected at all.
Sadly I think Final Season is going to be forgettable overall like most Telltale games these days. Which is a bummer, I want a memorable ending that feels satisfying (but I cant remember the last finale Telltale did that truly was satisfying since Tales episode 5.)
Okay so I've been thinking it over, and here's how I think TFS could've been improved. Just some small things.
Have Mitch interact with the player (not a hub scene, a 5ish minute interaction that everyone gets) in episode 1 so that it doesn't feel like he is only developed in ep2 to die. OR make Mitch determinant so there's another actually good choice in TFS.
Tone down the James "walkers are people" stuff
Have Clem interact with Omar in episode 2 (maybe have him help at the greenhouse with Clem, Ruby, and Mitch) so he doesn't just exist to be shot and has some genuine development and interaction.
Remove the chronic masturbation line. It's not funny, and ruins the scenes tone for a few minutes.
Add more callbacks to previous seasons in episodes 2 and 3. Mention people other than Lee. (Luke, Nick, and Pete STILL haven't been referenced in TFS...)
Develop the raiders more. Have Clem have actual dialogue with Armando. Armando seems like the kind of guy that would secretly help out the kids. Maybe have her meet Micheal in the woods with Minerva? I don't know just don't have the raiders do nothing in the game but wait around to die.
bro how dare you say you didnt like willy the 12 year old talking about being sent to a school for chronic masturbation when that was 7 years ago meaning he would be fucking 5 years old? XD XD XD
But yeah being serious, hard agree. The actual raiders imo dont need much development, but Lilly did. Like whatever, their the grunts following orders, not a big deal, but when Lilly makes no sense its hard to believe the conflict.
And Clem not mentioning anyone is so stupid. LEE ONLY ZONE. Kent Mundle has made the excuse of why Christa isnt mentioned by Clem is because "their time wasnt a good time together" so that seriously begs the question of. "Ok, even though what you just said about Christa and Clem's relationship is horribly wrong, then why does she never mention characters like Kenny? Or Luke? Or anyone that wouldnt be considered "clem doesnt talk about them because they had a bad time together?""
Okay so I've been thinking it over, and here's how I think TFS could've been improved. Just some small things.
Have Mitch interact with t… morehe player (not a hub scene, a 5ish minute interaction that everyone gets) in episode 1 so that it doesn't feel like he is only developed in ep2 to die. OR make Mitch determinant so there's another actually good choice in TFS.
Tone down the James "walkers are people" stuff
Have Clem interact with Omar in episode 2 (maybe have him help at the greenhouse with Clem, Ruby, and Mitch) so he doesn't just exist to be shot and has some genuine development and interaction.
Remove the chronic masturbation line. It's not funny, and ruins the scenes tone for a few minutes.
Add more callbacks to previous seasons in episodes 2 and 3. Mention people other than Lee. (Luke, Nick, and Pete STILL haven't been referenced in TFS...)
Develop the raiders more. Have Clem have actual dialogue with Armando. Armando s… [view original content]
I feel like the only reason episode 1 was so good was because the original team worked on it and Kent's team who came later and took over the project kept the same vision they had for the most part for EP1 and only improved it (like making AJ a central character).
But then they started to do their own thing with the Delta and having Lilly as a main villain and it went downhill from there.
Or maybe both teams sucked and they just got lucky with the first episode idk.
If I'm keeping it real I just don't get how we went from Batman s2 to this. Same Stitch and Done Running were amazing episodes. Hell even MC… moreSM 205 and Batman 204 were steps in the right direction. I just don't get how this season has turned for the worse so quickly. Surely something must be going on among the SNB team?
It's like we made 1 step forward with the 4 episodes I mentioned above and then took 2 steps back with TWD 403...
Lilly should have been a redemption story. Clem should have found her completely alone in the woods and Lilly would redeem herself throughout the season by protecting the kids.
I feel like the only reason episode 1 was so good was because the original team worked on it and Kent's team who came later and took over th… moree project kept the same vision they had for the most part for EP1 and only improved it (like making AJ a central character).
But then they started to do their own thing with the Delta and having Lilly as a main villain and it went downhill from there.
Or maybe both teams sucked and they just got lucky with the first episode idk.
Kents point is BS. That point can be 100% shot down by how Clem mentions leaving Lee and shooting Kenny (if you were one of those monsters that shot him...)
Tbh I might try and get the community to push for a Luke/Nick/Pete reference in 404. Those 3 were all likeable and well developed characters unlike hahahahhaha funny meme omar guy.
(Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it frustrating how the staff just laughs at the Omar joke? Like the joke revolves around him being a pointless character... why dont you do something about it and fix his character up a bit rather than embracing the meme?)
bro how dare you say you didnt like willy the 12 year old talking about being sent to a school for chronic masturbation when that was 7 year… mores ago meaning he would be fucking 5 years old? XD XD XD
But yeah being serious, hard agree. The actual raiders imo dont need much development, but Lilly did. Like whatever, their the grunts following orders, not a big deal, but when Lilly makes no sense its hard to believe the conflict.
And Clem not mentioning anyone is so stupid. LEE ONLY ZONE. Kent Mundle has made the excuse of why Christa isnt mentioned by Clem is because "their time wasnt a good time together" so that seriously begs the question of. "Ok, even though what you just said about Christa and Clem's relationship is horribly wrong, then why does she never mention characters like Kenny? Or Luke? Or anyone that wouldnt be considered "clem doesnt talk about them because they had a bad time together?""
In the context of the greater story, yes, that would've been the most productive.
In regards to just TFS and what it ended up being, though, well...one should preemptively cut off any long term correlation for the most part, but either way it'd ultimately be a matter of how the reworked character overall held up and significantly served the plot.
Lilly should have been a redemption story. Clem should have found her completely alone in the woods and Lilly would redeem herself throughout the season by protecting the kids.
Kents point is BS. That point can be 100% shot down by how Clem mentions leaving Lee and shooting Kenny (if you were one of those monsters t… morehat shot him...)
Tbh I might try and get the community to push for a Luke/Nick/Pete reference in 404. Those 3 were all likeable and well developed characters unlike hahahahhaha funny meme omar guy.
(Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it frustrating how the staff just laughs at the Omar joke? Like the joke revolves around him being a pointless character... why dont you do something about it and fix his character up a bit rather than embracing the meme?)
Yeah, not only was what he said about Christa and Clem's relationship completely incorrect, thats a horrible excuse, and makes no sense for why she wont mention other characters than that piss poor excuse.
I highly doubt even a push for it will make it happen. Episode 3 is probably finished right now, just getting that final polish, I doubt they'll add voice lines and stuff if they haven't already put a reference in. But its so super disappointing. One of my biggest issues right now is how unsatisfying and unrewarding much of The Final Season feels. Theres no moments that make the player feel good about something that happened, or a feeling of accomplishment. Scenes likes telling AJ about his parents and the season 2 group would be a great call back to Kenny and would feel amazing to finally do 2 games later. It would be satisfying to finally get that moment. Having AJ wear Kenny's hat would be amazing. Referencing Jane if you take out walkers with the knee technique would be great. When Clem sits down at the picnic table, could have been a real fucking easy callback to Season 2 ep 2 with sitting with Luke or Kenny, Clem could be all like "Last time I ate like this I was in a ski lodge in the mountains!" Like fucking anything, fuck it through in a Luke reference while your at it talking about the lodge, but you dont get shit. The biggest call back they did was Clem being afraid of Rosie for like 2 seconds then shes suddenly the dog master.
And I said the same thing about Omar, not sure if it was this thread or another, but yeah, I actually really hate it. I dont understand how a creator could see all the memes talking about how Omar is worthless as shit, so everyone makes memes about him, and taking that as a positive. Like, he is aware thats the butt of the joke right? That Omar is a shit character? But who are we kidding, he said hes fine with character arch and plot points being left undone.
Kents point is BS. That point can be 100% shot down by how Clem mentions leaving Lee and shooting Kenny (if you were one of those monsters t… morehat shot him...)
Tbh I might try and get the community to push for a Luke/Nick/Pete reference in 404. Those 3 were all likeable and well developed characters unlike hahahahhaha funny meme omar guy.
(Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it frustrating how the staff just laughs at the Omar joke? Like the joke revolves around him being a pointless character... why dont you do something about it and fix his character up a bit rather than embracing the meme?)
omfg get it chronic masturbation because pener joke xD (mom said not to type penis)
tfw they finally give another character some developing as backstory other than the most boring and shit forced romance interest characters, that said being willy
tfw its just for a dick joke that doesnt make since
bro how dare you say you didnt like willy the 12 year old talking about being sent to a school for chronic masturbation when that was 7 year… mores ago meaning he would be fucking 5 years old? XD XD XD
But yeah being serious, hard agree. The actual raiders imo dont need much development, but Lilly did. Like whatever, their the grunts following orders, not a big deal, but when Lilly makes no sense its hard to believe the conflict.
And Clem not mentioning anyone is so stupid. LEE ONLY ZONE. Kent Mundle has made the excuse of why Christa isnt mentioned by Clem is because "their time wasnt a good time together" so that seriously begs the question of. "Ok, even though what you just said about Christa and Clem's relationship is horribly wrong, then why does she never mention characters like Kenny? Or Luke? Or anyone that wouldnt be considered "clem doesnt talk about them because they had a bad time together?""
Have Mitch interact with the player (not a hub scene, a 5ish minute interaction that everyone gets) in episode 1 so that it doesn't feel like he is only developed in ep2 to die. OR make Mitch determinant so there's another actually good choice in TFS.
Mm, I suppose the first would've solved the problem.
Tone down the James "walkers are people" stuff
Was it really that heavy though?
Have Clem interact with Omar in episode 2 (maybe have him help at the greenhouse with Clem, Ruby, and Mitch) so he doesn't just exist to be shot and has some genuine development and interaction.
That was planned for the second schoolyard hub, but it got left out.
Remove the chronic masturbation line. It's not funny, and ruins the scenes tone for a few seconds.
Isn't that the point though?
As well as giving Willy backstory.
Add more callbacks to previous seasons in episodes 2 and 3. Mention people other than Lee. (Luke, Nick, and Pete STILL haven't been referenced in TFS...)
That would technically help with the feeling of
Develop the raiders more. Maybe have her meet Micheal in the woods with Minerva? I don't know just don't have the raiders do nothing in the game but wait around to die.
The Deltas are pretty much the apex of how overly straightforward and lazy the story is.
Largely since Villain Makes the Plot is very much in force.
Have Clem have actual dialogue with Armando. Armando seems like the kind of guy that would secretly help out the kids.
Okay so I've been thinking it over, and here's how I think TFS could've been improved. Just some small things.
Have Mitch interact with t… morehe player (not a hub scene, a 5ish minute interaction that everyone gets) in episode 1 so that it doesn't feel like he is only developed in ep2 to die. OR make Mitch determinant so there's another actually good choice in TFS.
Tone down the James "walkers are people" stuff
Have Clem interact with Omar in episode 2 (maybe have him help at the greenhouse with Clem, Ruby, and Mitch) so he doesn't just exist to be shot and has some genuine development and interaction.
Remove the chronic masturbation line. It's not funny, and ruins the scenes tone for a few minutes.
Add more callbacks to previous seasons in episodes 2 and 3. Mention people other than Lee. (Luke, Nick, and Pete STILL haven't been referenced in TFS...)
Develop the raiders more. Have Clem have actual dialogue with Armando. Armando s… [view original content]
Well Kent's team helped a lot on Episode 1, it's just that what they did with all the other episodes wasn't that good. This was a team effort the whole way through. But all this 'Kent's team' does remind me of the whole 'cliques' thing that Poogs was talking about. Why are there groups of developers that get moved around projects? Or do they just call it that because it's the remainder of the Bman S2 team after TWAU started development and they just moved to TFS? Doesn't explain why it's 'Kent's team' though.
I feel like the only reason episode 1 was so good was because the original team worked on it and Kent's team who came later and took over th… moree project kept the same vision they had for the most part for EP1 and only improved it (like making AJ a central character).
But then they started to do their own thing with the Delta and having Lilly as a main villain and it went downhill from there.
Or maybe both teams sucked and they just got lucky with the first episode idk.
Kents point is BS. That point can be 100% shot down by how Clem mentions leaving Lee and shooting Kenny (if you were one of those monsters t… morehat shot him...)
Tbh I might try and get the community to push for a Luke/Nick/Pete reference in 404. Those 3 were all likeable and well developed characters unlike hahahahhaha funny meme omar guy.
(Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it frustrating how the staff just laughs at the Omar joke? Like the joke revolves around him being a pointless character... why dont you do something about it and fix his character up a bit rather than embracing the meme?)
The Telltale devs having personal cliques seemed to be mostly for narrative and creative lead people, which could maybe explain why a sudden team change with the others stuff being forgotten about.
That being said, I dont think Kent himself was fully part of those "cliques." Not going to say names but it was pretty obvious which ones were in the toxic cliques. Kent seemed somewhat associated with many of the "clique people" but not like a hardcore "member" of the clique lmao. So it was probably the same old same old clique bs going on at Telltale and Mundle's team was the one selected due to the mostly clique nature of the other people in the group, not so much Mundle himself getting the personal favor to take over, he kinda just got roped along with it.
Well Kent's team helped a lot on Episode 1, it's just that what they did with all the other episodes wasn't that good. This was a team effor… moret the whole way through. But all this 'Kent's team' does remind me of the whole 'cliques' thing that Poogs was talking about. Why are there groups of developers that get moved around projects? Or do they just call it that because it's the remainder of the Bman S2 team after TWAU started development and they just moved to TFS? Doesn't explain why it's 'Kent's team' though.
What, you want Clem to be the leader of a group of adults like Season 2? I'm assuming they made it a group of teenagers so it makes sense that Clem is the group's leader, otherwise we would have a bunch of adults asking a teenager to do everything for them again.
What, you want Clem to be the leader of a group of adults like Season 2? I'm assuming they made it a group of teenagers so it makes sense th… moreat Clem is the group's leader, otherwise we would have a bunch of adults asking a teenager to do everything for them again.
What, you want Clem to be the leader of a group of adults like Season 2? I'm assuming they made it a group of teenagers so it makes sense th… moreat Clem is the group's leader, otherwise we would have a bunch of adults asking a teenager to do everything for them again.
Not going to say names but it was pretty obvious which ones were in the toxic cliques.
Ummmmmm, I actually have no clue. I knew (removing name so I don’t get banned) was a toxic moron before he got laid off, but that was really obvious, he treated the community like shit. I actually have no clue who would’ve been toxic on the “rejuvenated” Telltale team.
The Telltale devs having personal cliques seemed to be mostly for narrative and creative lead people, which could maybe explain why a sudden… more team change with the others stuff being forgotten about.
That being said, I dont think Kent himself was fully part of those "cliques." Not going to say names but it was pretty obvious which ones were in the toxic cliques. Kent seemed somewhat associated with many of the "clique people" but not like a hardcore "member" of the clique lmao. So it was probably the same old same old clique bs going on at Telltale and Mundle's team was the one selected due to the mostly clique nature of the other people in the group, not so much Mundle himself getting the personal favor to take over, he kinda just got roped along with it.
(this is also all just speculation)
Im sure these comments will be deleted for mentioning Job because apparently we can shit on Kevin Bruner all day but say anything about Job who was just as bad as Bruner is apparently a no no around here.
Again I dont want to say names because they are no where close to people like Job and Kevin. Some of the toxic stuff was some of them on twitter making long rants about how people disagreed with their ideas and gave criticisms. Really childish stuff that would be really annoying to work with when they cant handle any type of criticisms internally to make a better game, so instead they just get mad and isolate the person who said they didnt like that idea. So either conform with the clique, because if you say anything they dont want to hear, now nothing you say will matter at all.
Sounds like high school bs lmao, how immature.
Not going to say names but it was pretty obvious which ones were in the toxic cliques.
… more
Ummmmmm, I actually have no clue. I knew (removing name so I don’t get banned) was a toxic moron before he got laid off, but that was really obvious, he treated the community like shit. I actually have no clue who would’ve been toxic on the “rejuvenated” Telltale team.
How didn't it work ?
She was the one to get them to fight the raiders and inspired confidence in them.
Her becoming the "leader" was only natural and it happened progressively throughout Episode 2 and 3.
Comments
Dabig,sir. You already replied to this post before
To be fair, The Enemy Within actually kinda requires that from what I hear.
Probably unpopular opinion here, but I honestly don't mind that. I mean, it's really only Louis and Willy who'd count, particularly the latter, but yeah. It helps that they honestly aren't THAT out there.
That's a thing I've generally thought: Season 1's main cast was rather mundane and simple compared to much of what came afterward. They were just lucky enough to be in the first and unfortunately best/longest of the games.
Season 2 and sometimes ANF felt like they wanted to have each character be distinct, but didn't have the time or consistency to do so.
Okay, the Omar idea is definitely something, but I think it's safe to say that Ruby is one of more solid ones not named Louis or Violet.
In part because of her relationship with the school nurse, even.
Kinda like Francine in ANF, I and a few others couldn't help but think he was supposed to be rather plot relevant.
Though overall, yeah, he's supposed to be the weird kid.
You got me right in the feels, man. Well, thank you for the clarification either way. ?
I think probably my second favorite thing from the credits was, "Willy was fascinated by you when you met him for the first time."
Yeah, that's actually the best part of the third act.
Eh, better Marlon or Brody.
Well, if Episode 3 is any indication, maybe. Don't hold your breathe, though.
...Wait, huh?
I was fine with Marlon's death actually,his role was perfect and it made sense for the plot i guess.
But they had no excuse with Mitch i felt like they did a decent job with him and by the end he kinda grew on me but then they threw all that character's development away for some cheap ass shock value,they really wasted an opportunity to make him a determinant character there imo.
Thanks,i really liked the discussions i've had here with everyone.
I agree,it's even worse now that Rewind's gone i replayed Batman S2 two times (the last episode) because they were completely different but there's just no replay value at all this season.
My opinion on this might change depending on what they do with Lilly AJ and James in the last episode though.
While this is undoubtedly true, I think Clem and Aj’s relationship is more unique. Lee and Clem had the very basic/classic substitute father taking care of daughter relationship, I’m not saying it was bad by any means because it was done remarkably well. Clem’s relationship with Aj is very unique though because of how Aj is so different compared to Clementine from S1 or any other normal kid. Teaching Aj has more layers then teaching Clementine because of how he was born in the apocalypse. But yea, beating Season 1 in this regard is basically impossible, Sean was a writing god. I’m just glad they went a different route with Aj and I personally think they’re doing a fantastic job.
I find AJ and Clem's relationship to really pale compared to Clem and Lee's. For me the biggest issue is how unlike Lee and Clem where the player experiences their non-established bonding from the start, Final Season already has it established before you even get to play. Theres also a few scenes where Aj and Clem just go "I love you" and the player has no choice in the matter, they will always say I love you no matter what. I mean theres the scene in episode 3 where they get in the big argument then AJ comes back like it never happened and starts saying how he loves Clem and Clem says it back, player gets 0 input. Season 1 purposely didnt make Lee and Clem say things like this, especially against the players will, as it doesnt feel natural for the player, it feels like the game forcing you into it, which doesnt make you feel as attached.
Why do you think mindlessly killing off characters for the sake of it would improve the season? That's been one of my biggest gripes with previous seasons and one of my favourite parts about TFS is that they've slowed them down but made them matter more to the plot instead. No more 'Ava died a hero' shit.
I think he means that the character deaths that do happen arnt really heart wrenching or have that big of an effect on the player. Marlon and Brody's was memorable because the twist of Marlon's real goal and the fact he killed Bordy. Mitch dies no matter what in the same episode they decided to make him a character. Then Lilly can die, but even ignoring how badly she was handled in general, player isnt going to feel that much reaction from her death, and then James is similar to Mitch. Didnt really have a character until episode 3, same episode he dies (and even then his character is pretty forgettable)
This is all compared to deaths like Carley/Doug being killed, dropping Ben or Kenny going in to stop Ben from turning, Omid death ect. We are way more invested when these characters died because it feels like we built a relationship with them. We've had history with Carley and Doug for 3 episodes now, and now she is killed. Build a relationship with Ben and then given the choice to let him die. Built a relationship with Omid, then he is killed. Im not even covering all the deaths here, but the difference is all the deaths in Final Season happen the same episode that character got development.
Marlon/Bordy big focus in episode 1, dead by episode 1. Mitch large focus in episode 2, dead in episode 2. James focus in ep 3, dead in ep 3. It feels half baked, cant get that attached to characters when the episode you actually learn about them is the same they fucking die.
Neither did Jessica Krause, if memory serves.
Nah, I wouldn't say worthless. Just another case of them having a lower key character that they don't do much with largely because they focus on more important and/or elaborate ones, resulting in limited focus on him.
Eh, it's really not that much. It just looks like a lot because of how spaced out and numerous the quoting was.
Also, I saw your post ahead of time and might've thought up what I wanted to say before I was able to reply. Which wasn't much.
Did I? I didn't remember seeing it before.
Ah well.
Poogs worded this better than me with the whole "developed characters end up dying" thing.
I swear, based on this logic Willy is next....
AJ and Clem are good. Not bad. Not great. Not memorable. Just good. I don't really think an ending paralleling s1 (AJ shooting or leaving Clem) would have as much of an impact this time around because of this.
Eh, I suppose some would feel that way.
Essentially.
Uh, can I just say I never quite had a grasp with this mindset?
What was extra insulting about that is that she was the character that had a lot more to do with the overall story.
Does Willy even count in that sense?
Yeah I think thats better worded. Like its not awful by any means, but its really forgettable, and like I said the whole Aj and Clem starting this relationship off screen and the constant reminder of how much they love each other doesnt help me feel connected at all.
Sadly I think Final Season is going to be forgettable overall like most Telltale games these days. Which is a bummer, I want a memorable ending that feels satisfying (but I cant remember the last finale Telltale did that truly was satisfying since Tales episode 5.)
A word of advice: do not mess with Poogers; he knows his business.
I hope none of you take it that I have been ungrateful for the final season's effort, but I have to be honest and say that it is bad compared to previous games. I have felt nothing sentimental and was a fan of Clementine.
If I'm keeping it real I just don't get how we went from Batman s2 to this. Same Stitch and Done Running were amazing episodes. Hell even MCSM 205 and Batman 204 were steps in the right direction. I just don't get how this season has turned for the worse so quickly. Surely something must be going on among the SNB team?
It's like we made 1 step forward with the 4 episodes I mentioned above and then took 2 steps back with TWD 403...
Okay so I've been thinking it over, and here's how I think TFS could've been improved. Just some small things.
Have Mitch interact with the player (not a hub scene, a 5ish minute interaction that everyone gets) in episode 1 so that it doesn't feel like he is only developed in ep2 to die. OR make Mitch determinant so there's another actually good choice in TFS.
Tone down the James "walkers are people" stuff
Have Clem interact with Omar in episode 2 (maybe have him help at the greenhouse with Clem, Ruby, and Mitch) so he doesn't just exist to be shot and has some genuine development and interaction.
Remove the chronic masturbation line. It's not funny, and ruins the scenes tone for a few minutes.
Add more callbacks to previous seasons in episodes 2 and 3. Mention people other than Lee. (Luke, Nick, and Pete STILL haven't been referenced in TFS...)
Develop the raiders more. Have Clem have actual dialogue with Armando. Armando seems like the kind of guy that would secretly help out the kids. Maybe have her meet Micheal in the woods with Minerva? I don't know just don't have the raiders do nothing in the game but wait around to die.
bro how dare you say you didnt like willy the 12 year old talking about being sent to a school for chronic masturbation when that was 7 years ago meaning he would be fucking 5 years old? XD XD XD
But yeah being serious, hard agree. The actual raiders imo dont need much development, but Lilly did. Like whatever, their the grunts following orders, not a big deal, but when Lilly makes no sense its hard to believe the conflict.
And Clem not mentioning anyone is so stupid. LEE ONLY ZONE. Kent Mundle has made the excuse of why Christa isnt mentioned by Clem is because "their time wasnt a good time together" so that seriously begs the question of. "Ok, even though what you just said about Christa and Clem's relationship is horribly wrong, then why does she never mention characters like Kenny? Or Luke? Or anyone that wouldnt be considered "clem doesnt talk about them because they had a bad time together?""
I feel like the only reason episode 1 was so good was because the original team worked on it and Kent's team who came later and took over the project kept the same vision they had for the most part for EP1 and only improved it (like making AJ a central character).
But then they started to do their own thing with the Delta and having Lilly as a main villain and it went downhill from there.
Or maybe both teams sucked and they just got lucky with the first episode idk.
Is it now?
Lilly should have been a redemption story. Clem should have found her completely alone in the woods and Lilly would redeem herself throughout the season by protecting the kids.
Kents point is BS. That point can be 100% shot down by how Clem mentions leaving Lee and shooting Kenny (if you were one of those monsters that shot him...)
Tbh I might try and get the community to push for a Luke/Nick/Pete reference in 404. Those 3 were all likeable and well developed characters unlike hahahahhaha funny meme omar guy.
(Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it frustrating how the staff just laughs at the Omar joke? Like the joke revolves around him being a pointless character... why dont you do something about it and fix his character up a bit rather than embracing the meme?)
In the context of the greater story, yes, that would've been the most productive.
In regards to just TFS and what it ended up being, though, well...one should preemptively cut off any long term correlation for the most part, but either way it'd ultimately be a matter of how the reworked character overall held up and significantly served the plot.
You tell ‘em that if they come again at your city, they will go home in a box. ?
Yeah, not only was what he said about Christa and Clem's relationship completely incorrect, thats a horrible excuse, and makes no sense for why she wont mention other characters than that piss poor excuse.
I highly doubt even a push for it will make it happen. Episode 3 is probably finished right now, just getting that final polish, I doubt they'll add voice lines and stuff if they haven't already put a reference in. But its so super disappointing. One of my biggest issues right now is how unsatisfying and unrewarding much of The Final Season feels. Theres no moments that make the player feel good about something that happened, or a feeling of accomplishment. Scenes likes telling AJ about his parents and the season 2 group would be a great call back to Kenny and would feel amazing to finally do 2 games later. It would be satisfying to finally get that moment. Having AJ wear Kenny's hat would be amazing. Referencing Jane if you take out walkers with the knee technique would be great. When Clem sits down at the picnic table, could have been a real fucking easy callback to Season 2 ep 2 with sitting with Luke or Kenny, Clem could be all like "Last time I ate like this I was in a ski lodge in the mountains!" Like fucking anything, fuck it through in a Luke reference while your at it talking about the lodge, but you dont get shit. The biggest call back they did was Clem being afraid of Rosie for like 2 seconds then shes suddenly the dog master.
And I said the same thing about Omar, not sure if it was this thread or another, but yeah, I actually really hate it. I dont understand how a creator could see all the memes talking about how Omar is worthless as shit, so everyone makes memes about him, and taking that as a positive. Like, he is aware thats the butt of the joke right? That Omar is a shit character? But who are we kidding, he said hes fine with character arch and plot points being left undone.
omfg get it chronic masturbation because pener joke xD (mom said not to type penis)
tfw they finally give another character some developing as backstory other than the most boring and shit forced romance interest characters, that said being willy
tfw its just for a dick joke that doesnt make since
lmao this season is a joke
Okay, let's see what's here
Mm, I suppose the first would've solved the problem.
Was it really that heavy though?
That was planned for the second schoolyard hub, but it got left out.
Isn't that the point though?
As well as giving Willy backstory.
That would technically help with the feeling of
The Deltas are pretty much the apex of how overly straightforward and lazy the story is.
Largely since Villain Makes the Plot is very much in force.
Really?
>
Well Kent's team helped a lot on Episode 1, it's just that what they did with all the other episodes wasn't that good. This was a team effort the whole way through. But all this 'Kent's team' does remind me of the whole 'cliques' thing that Poogs was talking about. Why are there groups of developers that get moved around projects? Or do they just call it that because it's the remainder of the Bman S2 team after TWAU started development and they just moved to TFS? Doesn't explain why it's 'Kent's team' though.
Not even Luke/Nick/Pete, I'd prefer Luke/Kenny/Jane and Alvin and Rebecca get mentioned when AJ/Clementine dies.
The Telltale devs having personal cliques seemed to be mostly for narrative and creative lead people, which could maybe explain why a sudden team change with the others stuff being forgotten about.
That being said, I dont think Kent himself was fully part of those "cliques." Not going to say names but it was pretty obvious which ones were in the toxic cliques. Kent seemed somewhat associated with many of the "clique people" but not like a hardcore "member" of the clique lmao. So it was probably the same old same old clique bs going on at Telltale and Mundle's team was the one selected due to the mostly clique nature of the other people in the group, not so much Mundle himself getting the personal favor to take over, he kinda just got roped along with it.
(this is also all just speculation)
Where ma people at?
What, you want Clem to be the leader of a group of adults like Season 2? I'm assuming they made it a group of teenagers so it makes sense that Clem is the group's leader, otherwise we would have a bunch of adults asking a teenager to do everything for them again.
Are you replying to someone?
I think we are saying that Clem being a leader of a group of children was poorly executed. A good idea that didn't work.
Sounds like high school bs lmao, how immature.
Ummmmmm, I actually have no clue. I knew (removing name so I don’t get banned) was a toxic moron before he got laid off, but that was really obvious, he treated the community like shit. I actually have no clue who would’ve been toxic on the “rejuvenated” Telltale team.
Im sure these comments will be deleted for mentioning Job because apparently we can shit on Kevin Bruner all day but say anything about Job who was just as bad as Bruner is apparently a no no around here.
Again I dont want to say names because they are no where close to people like Job and Kevin. Some of the toxic stuff was some of them on twitter making long rants about how people disagreed with their ideas and gave criticisms. Really childish stuff that would be really annoying to work with when they cant handle any type of criticisms internally to make a better game, so instead they just get mad and isolate the person who said they didnt like that idea. So either conform with the clique, because if you say anything they dont want to hear, now nothing you say will matter at all.
I personally think it worked out just fine. This is the best Season since S1.
How didn't it work ?
She was the one to get them to fight the raiders and inspired confidence in them.
Her becoming the "leader" was only natural and it happened progressively throughout Episode 2 and 3.